View Full Forums : Illegal Immigration


Create resurrected
07-19-2006, 05:40 PM
I've been trying to accumulate changes the US should make in place of building a wall on our southern border, which, in my eyes, is a last resort action.

We don't see too much of this type of talk in these forums. Feedback regarding the issue in general, this specific plan, or points therein would be appreciated.

A Comprehensive Plan: My compilation so far.

1. Fine employers who hire illegal and bring criminal charges against them. This would need to be done in a serious manner, with Government actually investigating employers. Every DHS agency would need to be employed in this effort, along with local law enforcement. Instead of making it illegal for employers in many states to ask about citizenship, make it mandatory to do so with federal legislation. Do this consistently and across the boards, and eventually employers will stop hiring illegals and without jobs, the current Illegals will gradually leave.

The opposite of this is done now. Several federal agencies have basically indicated that if employers do scrutinize documents too much, they’ll be slammed with discrimination suits. Yes, you read that last part right – employers are basically told by the Government that they’ll be sued if they actually try and follow our immigration laws!

2. Arrest and deport illegals. Supporters of illegal immigration create this strawman claiming that you can’t arrest 11 million people. You actually don’t have to. What you do need to do is seriously go about pretending that we don’t know where illegals are, and consistently and methodically begin arresting and deporting them. Not 11 million, no big concentration camps, just one by one, if you see an illegal, arrest him and then deport him.

Once you create a situation hostile to illegals living openly (see e.g., illegals holding rallies draped in Mexican flags while law enforcement looks on and does nothing), then those illegals you haven’t arrested begin to gradually leave.

All the while, however, Give existing residents partial amnesty: Those that have become successful enough to prove income, residence, pay back taxes, and are verified non-criminals should be offered a probationary term with specific employment and 'no more than one misdemeanor' terms. Upon completion they can be offered either long-term residence or citizenship. I've purposefully left out specific lengths of time, although they should be specified in such a program. This is a one-time exception clause, not an ongoing program for those who bypass controlled channels in the future.

3. Let Border agents do their jobs. Although increasing the size of the Border Patrol would help, the real problem is that they basically can’t do their jobs. Illegals caught by them are basically just released, if they’re allowed to actually search and detain illegals in the first place.

4. Cut off aid and cooperation to Mexico until they stop promoting illegal immigration. Yes, this will piss Mexico off, but the American people are pissed off by their disregard of America’s laws and sovereignty. This would include expedited extradition and not leave the option for Mexican nationals to run home when facing prosecution.

This increase in the transparency of law enforcement applies to both points 3 and 4.

5. Institute a Guest Worker program: Since Big Agriculture has been subsidized for decades by illegal immigration, and Americans are unlikely to want to spend three-to-four times as much for orange juice and twice as much for lettuce, among other crops, provide a means to allow seasonal workers into the country. This gives us the best of both worlds: Big Ag stays local, labor stays cheap, and the government gets taxes. This program can be used to earn permanent residence through time and strict criteria. A gradual, monitored, transitional program used to bring the competent into our society while fulfilling the needs of Big Ag.

6. Reallocate Financial Aid: America spends almost nothing on foreign financial aid, despite what you hear in election years. Ninety percent of it goes to Israel and 90 percent of the remainder goes to Egypt. Invest heavily, massively, in the Mexican economy, coupled with a requirement that the Mexican government is truly accountable to its residents and that elections be transparent and fair. People are leaving their families and traveling to a foreign land because their home doesn't offer them the economic opportunities they want.

7. Give preferential treatment to the educated: Those with 2 year degrees and above should be offered an accelerated citizenship program. This policy would help fulfill our need for an educated workforce.

jcapodiferro
07-19-2006, 05:58 PM
I missed where this is Druid related.

Nowah

barbooha
07-19-2006, 08:19 PM
I missed where this is Druid related.

Nowah

Re-read the description of this sub forum.

Most of the ideas seem very reasonable to probably most people. IMHO, the utmost important thing in this should be the securing of all of our borders, waters, Canada, Mexico, air, etc.. whether it's a physical wall or 1000's of feral druids :)

With out securing our borders first, the time and expense of the rest of the ideas grow while their effectiveness diminish..

These are just my thoughts.

Yrys
07-19-2006, 09:34 PM
Yep, this is the off-topic forum, this is fine here (so long as the forum rules are followed). :)

Kain Elderan
07-20-2006, 01:39 AM
Wow, those are some outstanding ideas. Implement them now! ;)

Good post, Create. I agree that it is rather ridiculous that these people were out protesting in the streets... while cops watched. Umm.. when did the word <u>illegal</u> stop meaning anything?

Claritondeus
07-20-2006, 12:28 PM
I personally dont mind the illegals too much. They make us San Diegans DELICIOUS Mexican food. And I <3 Mexi food. Hehe.


I'm just foolin around, i realize the broader implications of the illegial immigration debate. My city is certainly in the heart of it. Need a machaca burrito and another cup of coffee to get me motivated to discuss politics. :)

yay for a IRL post!

Trixtaa
07-21-2006, 02:06 AM
I like walls.

gwmort
07-21-2006, 09:17 AM
Your ideas sound good, and rather describe the current efforts being supported by both parties (deporting, amnesty, going after employees), but I think the root is not the how but the why. Clearly if it was important enough of an issue for us we have the ability to close that border, but who wants to?

No one in power really wants to stop the illegals, hence the more "just make them legal" approach you hear. They are cheap labor, they make small business men and farmers able to make a larger (or in some cases any) profit, which in turn helps the economy. This is good for small business, its good for wealthier Americans that can profit from the labor. The only people it is bad for are the American working poor, and they don't have any power to change it, but politically.

So you have a country run by wealthy white men who are personally better off with a large pool of cheap labor, but they need to look like they understand the plight of the common man to win elections, so they make a big fuss of what can be done and debating strategies, etc... While the schools are over crowded in some regions and the working poor get more and more frustrated.

I really think the solution is to send commando teams of Teamsters into Mexico and get those guys unionized so their working conditions improve and they get a livable wage, which will cut down on the Northern migration.

barbooha
07-21-2006, 11:00 AM
So you have a country run by wealthy white men who are personally better off with a large pool of cheap labor,

True, and I am glad for it. A poor man never gave me a job :)

Create resurrected
07-26-2006, 03:59 PM
I missed where this is Druid related.In time, grasshoppa, you will learn.

I agree that it is rather ridiculous that these people were out protesting in the streets... while cops watched. Umm.. when did the word illegal stop meaning anything?Papiere bitte! Stopping each in the street is no better.

I personally dont mind the illegals too much. They make us San Diegans DELICIOUS Mexican food.This is true even in the the midwest, the northwest side of Indianapolis to be more specific. I'm suprised that despite your geographic setting you don't have a stronger opinion one way or another.

I like walls.Did we learn nothing from our previous attempts at isolationist foreign policy?

Your ideas sound good, and rather describe the current efforts being supported by both parties (deporting, amnesty, going after employees), ...Yes, that's exactly where half the points came from.

...but I think the root is not the how but the why....and that's where the other half came from, for example: reallocation of foreign aid.

Clearly if it was important enough of an issue for us we have the ability to close that border, but who wants to?Since the administration has demonstrated little return on investment, little progress in it's current efforts to secure the country finances and shipping/receiving infrastructure, this issue was brought forth as a diversionary measure. Yes, I not only own, but possess options on future animosity.

No one in power really wants to stop the illegals, hence the more "just make them legal" approach you hear.We've tried that method before. Remember the 'rush' during the Regan era?

They are cheap labor, they make small business men and farmers able to make a larger (or in some cases any) profit, which in turn helps the economy. This is good for small business, its good for wealthier Americans that can profit from the labor. The only people it is bad for are the American working poor, and they don't have any power to change it, but politically.404, sound economics not found.

I really think the solution is to send commando teams of Teamsters into Mexico and get those guys unionized so their working conditions improve and they get a livable wage, which will cut down on the Northern migration.Doesn't forced unionization essentially make mute Mexico's primary economic investment selling point: cheap labor? I don't see how this would help the situation at all.

gwmort
07-28-2006, 01:38 PM
Eliminating the cheap labor does exactly make moot Mexico's biggest draw to investment by foreign corporations (ours) which is why we should do it to keep the corporations here. I don't care that the Mexican gov't wouldn't like it or their wealthy business owners, giving their people a living wage would do a lot to eliminate many of these trade/ immigration issues on this continent.

Create resurrected
07-28-2006, 03:48 PM
Eliminating the cheap labor does exactly make moot Mexico's biggest draw to investment by foreign corporations (ours) which is why we should do it to keep the corporations here. I don't care that the Mexican gov't wouldn't like it or their wealthy business owners, giving their people a living wage would do a lot to eliminate many of these trade/ immigration issues on this continent.Yes, but the money doesn't appear out of nowhere. If we use our financial leverage (4 & 6), it's not a far stretch to say that infrastructure development will follow. Infrastructure development is the engine of increasing standard of living, which is the root cause of the issue.

In a corrupt environment, unions would be nothing more than another tool to exploit the sheep.