I was thinking, is the primary function of a Druid to be a "Jack of All Trades"? Similar to the primary function of a priest to heal and a warrior to tank, etc..

After reading nearly every post in this forum and from my own personal gaming experience, IMHO I believe the answer is yes, at least in the 0-60 part of the game.

I was also thinking about innervate, arguably one of the best talents we have, and the fact now that all druids have this ability not just the restos. I initially was upset, why should feral/balance druids have this? but then started thinking, ok, why don't resto druids have LoP or the ability to switch to moonkin in battle, etc..?

I know the reasons why and all of the arguments but in the big picture, shouldn't a "jack of all trades" have every ability available to them so that in any situation they can be the best feral or moonkin or resto they can be?

I mean every feral has innervate along with every moonkin now, why not expand this concept some more? Why not give Ferals NS or the resto druid the ability to switch to moonkin?

I looked up the definition of Jack of All Trades and you get this....a person able to do a variety of different jobs acceptably well [syn: Jack of all trades] 2: a man skilled in various odd jobs and other small tasks [syn: handyman, odd-job man]

I don't see the word "specialized" in here, which is exactly what talent trees do. So by definition, why not eliminate talent trees for the druids and give every druid the opportunity to use every available druid talent (i.e. innervate)?

What would be the outcome if this occurred? Every druid would now play and be the exact same? The druid would now be the most superior class? I think the answer to both of these is no (just look at our end game equipment). But each druid would now be the best "jack of all trades" which IMHO is our primary function.

Our Jack of All Trades function is the exact reason why only Druids could/should have every available talent and not any other class. Why stop with innervate? Like giving a moonkin druid swiftmend is now going to make him superior to every warrior? Or giving resto druids the ability to switch into moonkin will now make us superior to every priest?

Well wouldn't every druid now play the exact same way? "Pffff..please"!

What you would have is the ability for a druid to really play their situational role "jack of all trades". How?

Well in the midst of battle if a rogue goes down, we can switch to cat and be the best cat possible. If a tank goes down, we can switch to bear and be the best possible bear we can be. If a priest goes down we have access to all of our healing abilities, etc..., etc..

For instance, if one rolls feral/balance build and then a situation calls for them to off heal/backup heal, the druid will likely have little to no resto talents/spells. What would be the problem for them to have access to swiftmend or ns? They already have friggin innervate?

I understand all the reasons not to and that what I have said may not even be logical or rational or that my thoughts did nothing but eat up space on some server somewhere or waste your time in reading this.

Or, that Blizzard is really smart and they know what they are doing so just shut up and keep paying your $15 a month and enjoy the game you noob and quit wasting space on the forum.

I have no problems in accepting any of that (so no negative responses needed) :). :iamwithst , I honestly know probably <1% of this game.

So I guess my question is, "Why stop with innervate"?

Put simply:
Game balance.
or at least that's what blizzard says.

Probably because there is nothing a moonkin or feral can do that you can't just do different degrees. You can cast spells, you can change to forms and melee. Each tree just lets you be better at what you like to do, but doesn't really give any new abilities (except NG, feral charge, IS).

I know this is a half answer, since you would like our auras or moonkin dance, but those don't really effect your role as a druid.

We all got innervate to make druids more raid viable as a class regardless of specialization, thereby promoting the jack-of-all trades approach.

So I guess my question is, "Why stop with innervate"?If you've played the core classes from which a druid operates: rogue, warrior, priest - You'll find that druids have less abilities but nearly the same resultant effectiveness (provided spec). This is true to a much lesser extent in our healing role, but it's still applicable.

Now that innervate is out there for everyone, even hybrid to full feral geared druids have very good stores of mana (see HotW). This can allow a 0/30/21 spec to, rather than hope for arcane crits, to just inefficiently throw mana into damage and be somewhat effective, despite 0 balance talents.

21 restoration talents in conjunction with good spell selection yeilds an effective group healer, but we're really looking at HotW providing enough mana to balance the lost efficiency another 10 restoration points would yeild.

Of course, with 30 feral talents both melee damage and tanking should be adequate to very good.

Your only real tradeoff is if you focus a bit more on cat or bear. Pick bear for tanking, as in a 5-man hybrid position one can dole out enough damage by supplementing cat form with a balance lead-in.

You say you want a druid to be able to really be the 'jack of all trades'? I argue that a 0/30/21 spec already is.

The Spec (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/druids/talents.html?0000000000000000505100131322205005522 0105010000)
Playstyle/Specialization mods:
Feral: 1pt imp shred to imp bash
Resto: 1pt imp enrage to nature's focus, 1pt imp enrage to imp rejuv, 2pt tranquil spirit to imp rejuv

Lets also not forget that Blizzard has made TWO (2) of our 31 point talents trainable: Hurricane used to be the 31pt balance, and now innervate. I think that Blizz has been trying to allow us to get more out of each tree, though they cant give us everything all at once. Hopefully they keep buffing us druids going forward :cool:

I agree Create - the 30/21 build is already very close.

All very good points as I knew they would be.

I agree Create - the 30/21 build is already very close

Very much agree now that IMHO, swiftmend is not worthy of resto #31, where as innervate was.

I guess what I am thinking is that with 30/21 what is the biggest thing you are missing from balance, ooc or MK? and what is the biggest thing missing from resto, SM? I just dont see the the big game imbalance/harm in giving us the best of whats left (i.e.Hurricane/Innervate)...... even though this is a futile thought.

Thanks for the thoughts and input!:eusa_booh

Very much agree now that IMHO, swiftmend is not worthy of resto #31, where as innervate was.I agree. Swiftmend needs...something. It's an expensive 'oh $hit' button to use if NS is down.

LotP is the same way as it's rare, at least in my experience, for RL's to group 4 rogues and a feral druid. If your RL understands how healers work, you'll get the group and LotP is fine.

I guess what I am thinking is that with 30/21 what is the biggest thing you are missing from balance, ooc or MK?Natural Weapons and Imp. SF are the big ones IMO. Imp. MF, Vengence, and Nature's Grace work in conjunction to boost damage overall, but you really need all three to make it worth the points....Even then the opportunity cost is very high.

Alternatively, with only >=5 / 0 / >=11 a druid can: moonfire, swarm, then wrath spam for decent damage.

and what is the biggest thing missing from resto, SM?Gift of Nature, by far, followed by Imp. Rejuv and Imp. Reg. Swiftmend is your very inefficient PW:S equivalent for use only in emergencies, or as a top-off when you can fully regen the 20% mana cost before the next required heal (i.e. never).

I just dont see the the big game imbalance/harm in giving us the best of whats left (i.e.Hurricane/Innervate)...... even though this is a futile thought.Hmmmm, what's left? If we got all the 31's I don't think it'd break the game, but even that seems a bit much.

I agree. Swiftmend needs...something. It's an expensive 'oh $hit' button to use if NS is down.

I dunno, I've respec'd to resto and I use swiftmend as my primary heal. If the MT or w/e is getting low on health I go rejuv/SM/rejuv...then maybe a low lvl regrowth. by then the HP are up and the HoT is ticking nicely. Then I throw rejuv's on all those who are losing HP and by the MT is losing HP again I just go back to rejuv/SM/rejuv (45sec cooldown isn't bad).

I dunno how I'd heal w/o swiftmend...although I didn't switch to resto till after the patch.

I've respec'd to resto and I use swiftmend as my primary heal.What level are you?

edit: civility > me

I really like swiftmend... I think it's a great addition to druid healing, and the only real thing missing making us inferior to priests. (And swiftmend is far more mana efficient than priests shield iirc)

I'm sure I will draw Create's ire, but Swiftmend is a great talent. 235 or so mana for a 1300hp heal isnt too bad, esp if you let rejuv tick 2 or 3 times (at about 325 per tick for me). Feel free to do the math, but I never run oom, and use swiftmend all the time in endgame and pvp. Though my primary heal is rank 6 ht, and I have +500 to heal and +42mp5.

Innervate was prob the best 31pt talent ever - hard to compete with that without some kind of 'healing form' or something that increases healing and mana regen by a certain amount. But I wholeheartedly welcome another insta heal on a 15 second cooldown.

You have +500 healing and you use Rank 6? I only equip +450ish (dropped some +heal for more spirit/mana) and use Rank 4 and never run out of mana. I think Rank 6 would lead to way too much overhealing but I may be wrong...

I'm sure I will draw Create's ire, but Swiftmend is a great talent. 235 or so mana for a 1300hp heal isnt too bad, esp if you let rejuv tick 2 or 3 times (at about 325 per tick for me)...

...But I wholeheartedly welcome another insta heal on a 15 second cooldown.

@ 235mana it's decent. I havn't played since SM was introduced to the game. Consequently I am going off of the talent description on the main WoW site. There, it says SM costs 20% of base mana. Even if you're in 60 entry blues, that's a minimum of 1k mana, likely more. @ 1k mana, efficiency sucks.

*That's* why I'm freaking out.

So, let me ask here: What is the mana cost. I obviously am misinformed.

Its around 235 mana to use Swiftmend. You must also take into effect the cost of the HoT you are eating with the spell or at least part of that mana cost unless you use Swiftmend at the very last second the HoT is dieing, which is highly unlikely, because damage spikes dont play nice and do not land perfectly when your HoTs are about to end.

Casting rejuv, then swiftmend immediatly, is a quick way to go oom fast. I use it alot when I need quick heals for clothies that get aggros from raid mobs or in PvP (swiftmend is godly in PvP).

@ 235mana it's decent. I havn't played since SM was introduced to the game. Consequently I am going off of the talent description on the main WoW site. There, it says SM costs 20% of base mana. Even if you're in 60 entry blues, that's a minimum of 1k mana, likely more. @ 1k mana, efficiency sucks.

At 1k mana, that would be the worst spell ever. I'd boycott resto if that was the case. Rejuv and SM immediatley certainly does make it inefficient... obv the more ticks that go on rejuv, the more efficient it becomes. And yeah, thats not always possible. Raid healing and 5man or pvp healing are much different also - 1 heal target vs 5 or 7 or so. If I just have 1 heal target, I can cast rejuv, then immediatley queue up a HT then hit swiftmend after and have gotten 2 ticks out of my rejuv (which is about 700 health from the rejuv).

Lorath, yeah, rank 6 is somewhat overhealing. I vary what I use... I use rank 4 only when I have my HoT's up and were on trash mobs. On bosses I use rank 6. Also, we just lost our 2 main tanks who were both geared in full might with drillborer and quel serar, and are in the process of gearing up 2 new ones who dont have much fr / +def gear. They take noticibly more damage.. Healing has definitley gotten more interesting. Crazy how much good gear mitigated crits.

I use the constantly cast and jump/hit esc at the last moment method, so I'm not casting rank 6 on targets that dont need it, and have been getting pretty good at timing swiftmends. Last night we cleared up to domo (domo and rag tonight) and I only drank a total of 11 times, with 6 of those being after rebuffs. Greater Blessing of Wisdom and a lot of mp5 gear keeps my mana ticking really well.

I take it back.

Swiftmend is a good tool.

Does it work for both Rejuv and Regrowth if they are both active on the target?

Works on Rejuv over Regrowth but will eat either HoT. So, if only regrowth is on a target it will eat the regrowth. If both are on the target, it consumes the rejuv.

What level are you?

edit: civility > me

60...have a fair amount of healing gear too.:elfbiggri

So wait...are you saying that you can let rejuv tick all the way down till there's 1sec left on it, hit SM and it will give the entire amount of the rejuv? In my experience the sooner you use SM the more HP it gives back....I could be mistaken though, I'll have to check 2nite.

Swiftmend heals the full amount of the HoT at any time throughout the HoT. For example my Rejuv rank 10 ticks at about 350, and after 3 ticks I'll use swiftmend and it will heal the target for 1400, sometimes critting at 2100. So yeah, technically you can hit SM with 1 sec left and it will be the same if you hit it immediatley after casting Rejuv.

edit: a good way to test this is to cast it on yourself while at about 1/2 to 2/3 health. Watch the timer and let it get down to 1sec then hit SM.

So wait...are you saying that you can let rejuv tick all the way down till there's 1sec left on it, hit SM and it will give the entire amount of the rejuv?

That was my impression, after reading the Swiftmend thread here. :sumo:

All druids got innervate because all high-end guilds only recruited druids with innervate and this didn't really encourage druids to play like they wanted and Blizz wanted to change this. They (and I) want druids to utilize their entire arsenal of skills.. and forcing druids to become resto just because of innervate makes a dull and boring gaming community.

That's the bottom line. Like it or not.

My guild is presently running BWL, AQ40 and Naxx. I'm a primary MT healer on all runs and I'm unually in the top 5 on healing, with a low overhealing %.

I'm Balance/Resto spec'd and have gathered a ton of mana regen gear. I keep Mageblood going for all Boss fights. I use Mana Oil and Nightfin Soup for the longer fights. Mana regen rocks...I hardly ever go OOM or have to hit the Major Mana pots. If you plan to do the upper level raids, put mana regen gear on the top of your wish list.

Swiftmend is great. We keep a rotation where the other Droods (usually three of us) will hit the MT with Regrowth and I pop Swiftmend as need for a burst heal. It works great for mana conservation. I was going to spec out of 31 Resto, but after a few runs with Swiftmend I decided against it.

Try the mod SwifterMender. It will display all of the party that have either Rejuv or Regrowth on them. You can sort by time remaining, health remaining, etc. It lets you milk all of the ticks possible from the HoT before you cast your Swiftmend. It shows all of the active HoTs, even those cast by other Droods....and yes, Swiftmend works on HoTs that you didn't cast.

I think that if you use it non stop SM can eat up your mana, but I also think it is a great tool. The one thing that makes it really good IMO is that it only has a 15 second cool down. So if you have afew HoT's going you have the ability to flash heal someone for 2k, if it crits, every 15 seconds and to me thats what makes it valuable. In fast paced pvp fights I have found it very valuable.

Now all that being said, I dont have SM at this time. Afew days ago I went to the 24/0/27 build. With Moonglow, reflection, and Tranquil Spirit it is supposed to be the most mana effecient healing setup. You lose a little on the front end healing wise but your healing longevity is much better, or so they say. Im going to give it afew more runs before I decide on keeping it or going back to 20/0/31. I really want to get my third peice of Stormrage to see how it works with the 15% mana regen bonus you get. 30 boss kills in BWL and no Stormrage drops :P