View Full Forums : PVP in Feral Gear vs Healing Gear


Brekster
11-20-2006, 06:46 AM
Hello hello.

So... My guild has come quite a while in MC, only have Domo and Raggy left - ZG is on Farm and downed Kurinaxx several times..
Well, nuff bout that...
My feral gear is various stuff from 60s instance etc. I use Warden Staff with almost all blue gear and 1 epic (Wristguards of stability).

In my feral gear I have about 3.7K hp selfbuffed and 3K mana (humanoid form) and about 9K armor in bear and 20% to crit.

In my healing gear thouch, I have about 3.2K hp - 5.5K mana selfbuffed, and bout 6K armor in bear - and +400 healing...

The thing is... When I Duel/PVP in my feral gear, I do OK - but still I need to perform flawless to beat most people...

Though in my healing gear, I find it alot more easier to kill people.. I can just basicly outlast them because of my mana - though it takes a while to kill them....

Basicly , I'm gonna start to PVP in my healing gear from now on...
Yesterday I tried against a Full Tier1 Rogue and a BWL warrior and beat them easier in my healing gear than in Feral gear...


Anyone else noticed this?

Im so confused :confused:

Jatix
11-22-2006, 11:41 AM
i noticed that also - but this is due to the hybrid nature of the druid, your not supposed to reamin in one form all the time - try using a combination of gear from your resto and feral sets - the results could be nice :)

Claritondeus
11-22-2006, 01:31 PM
I've found that myself as well. When I max out my ap / crit%, I have almost 0 int on my gear, and after shifting in and out a few times and a heal or two I have to innervate myself.

I've taken to wearing my Salamander Scale Pants, SR Helm, ZG Bracers and ZG Belt (all have high ac and sta, in addition to lots of +heal, Int, mp5) with my Thick Silithid Chestguard, Evil Eye Pendant, Toughened Silithid Gloves, Blademaster Legs, Ash Covered Boots, Ring of Protection, Seal of the Archmagus, Mark of Tyrany, Smoking Heart of the Mountain and Warden Staff / Doomulus Prime when PvP'ing. I've found that with that mix, I still dont hit super hard (still 0/15/36), but I last forever, and can function as a hybrid.

Unless I'm in a preformed PvP group, then I wear my full healing gear, cause I know that I'll have ppl protecting me while I heal them, namely two epic warriors with BIG swords / maces beating on everyone that even looks at me.

Veriden
11-22-2006, 01:53 PM
I find I do best in my "hybrid" gear, as I refer to it. It has a mix and mash of stats, but it has a lot of intellect. I have 3.1k Health and 5.2k Mana unbuffed, and in crappy gear, too. But, I still tend to win the majority of my PvP duel. So I'm not surprised that you do better in healer gear.

I recently got into an argument with the two other high level druids in my guild about gear. One said the warden staff isn't the best tanking staff, and they both said they don't need mana gear or anything. They said that if they dueled right, they don't have to leave their forms and heal, and that I'm doing the druid wrong or something. I forgot, as I got mad when they starting joking about me being a noob.

Moral: Don't ignore your mana and +heal. It certainly comes in handy, at least for me.

Claritondeus
11-22-2006, 02:14 PM
I recently got into an argument with the two other high level druids in my guild about gear. One said the warden staff isn't the best tanking staff, and they both said they don't need mana gear or anything.

They are obviously idiots. Unless they are the type of druid that ONLY dps's in cat form, or ONLY stays in bearform the whole raid. Warden Staff = best tanking staff. Bar none. Unless there is some crazy uber naxx weapon that I haven't seen yet. Send them here to learn a thing or two.

They said that if they dueled right, they don't have to leave their forms and heal, and that I'm doing the druid wrong or something. I forgot, as I got mad when they starting joking about me being a noob.

I had a half T1 half T2 hunter that I whooped in a duel recently complain "wtf, you healed yourself 5 times. I just killed you 5 times" and a few ppl around just laughed at him and said "dude, hes a druid, thats what they do." Good druids shift. Do they not fight mages, or any class that CC's? I'd /laugh /point /golfclap at them if they just sat rooted, or frost nova'd, or sheep'd instead of shifting out.

Veriden
11-22-2006, 02:57 PM
Hah, thanks for that. I knew what I thought was right, but their arguing really got me angry... Though I don't know why.

I mean, sure he said "It's a good feral weapon." But he said: this (http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=19944) was loads better than the Warden Staff. Personally, I see that as a cat form staff.

Anyway, sorry to drag this off-topic. >_>

Claritondeus
11-22-2006, 03:47 PM
I can't pull up that link as I'm behind a firewall at work. What staff is it?

Veriden
11-22-2006, 04:25 PM
Nat Pagle's Fish Terminator
Binds when picked up
Unique
Two-Hand Staff
172 - 258 Damage Speed 3.50
(61.4 damage per second)
+41 Strength
+19 Stamina

Kyane
11-22-2006, 04:43 PM
That's an awesome DPS weapon, one of the best for a feral druid, but not the best tanking.

Tanking-wise we need to up our AC and our def, warden does that nicely.

Any druid that says you're not playing right if you have to shift is absolutely insane. That is what we do, we shift to adapt to what we need. Heals, armor, dps. We shift, we live. We stay one form and we die.

I can take most hunters now solely in my resto gear, just healing myself and purging their viper sting, while hitting them with my staff/mace & a moonfire or 10. Mages are very much the same way, I just heal myself while they go oom. Surprisingly effective.

Veriden
11-22-2006, 05:06 PM
Which is what I told them, just about word for word. They said it would hold aggro easier than the warden would. At this point I said "but that is what growl, maul, and faerie fire are for." And then they said something about "yeah, but without using skills." At this point I stopped listening.

Don't get me wrong, though, they are good druids... I think.

Kyane
11-22-2006, 05:16 PM
Maul, demo roar, growl and feral faerie fire are amazing when it comes to building aggro. The extra damage is really pretty minimal in terms of threat generation. So long as DPS waits for the call ( even prot tanks lose aggro if DPS starts to soon ), we can hold aggro just about as well as most tanks.

Come the expansion with a stacking lacerate ( like sunder ) and our extra threat generation, we'll have no proble holding aggro, period.

A good druid uses all their abilities to the best of their use. I think you have the right idea, your guildies....*shrug* ;)

Khar
11-22-2006, 07:27 PM
From the sounds of it your guildie's thinking about non raid boss tanking, which yeah, doesn't need all the AC usually, but with tanking raid bosses, we definitely do want the warden's staff AC.

As far as PvP goes, I find I do better in a hybrid set too. I use the same set I use during fights like rajaxx, made of a mix of tanking gear and high armor healing gear. And I... run around and act like a distraction a lot... rogues seem to go right for the bear butt, not sure why >.> <.< Some days I do pretty good in pvp, some days I don't... guess that's normal though.

Krain
11-22-2006, 07:34 PM
For pvp i go all for Stamina.. i get like 8k hp selfbuffed and around 13k armor (can switch off weapon from mace of und. to warden staff to get 14.5k+) but for pvp stamina is everything.. and bear is not the best vs caster, but hey, i can crit maul for 1k+ on cloth :)

Brekster
11-27-2006, 03:43 AM
Well I use my Cenarion Chest piece, 2 pieces of my superior PVP set (Rank 7 parts), and I stick with my healing rings and neck piece.
Other items are random blues..

I have about 800 attackpower in catform , +5% critchance - and about 5.5K mana selfbuffed and 3.2K health in human form.

The only class I found abit hard beating in this gear is well geared DPS warrior and Rogues because of the lack of armor (have about 7K in bear) but Im trying to just switch to Warden when I fight these guys... I use my Will Of Arlokk with +55 heal spells normaly.

Oh and btw.. Ragnaros died last night! First time ever for us!

Trixtaa
11-27-2006, 10:16 AM
To strat, grats on your Wristguards of Stability...Have been after them for about 6-7 months and have temporarily quit raiding now =(. and on your Rag Kill

Anywho, unless you're working on a WSGFlagRunner set, you'll want to have PVP GEAR and not just feral gear. This means never to neglect intellect..I find spirit much less important in PVP but still don't leave it at none. Depending on your playstyle you can have more 'feral gear' than 'caster gear' and vice versa.

Sond
11-27-2006, 05:13 PM
If your battlegroup features opponents that are generally PvP spec, have PvP gear, and know how to PvP your best bet is to go with healing gear that has high armor and stamina. The only time feral is effective except as a distraction is against another Druid.

In my battlegroup, if you don't have Naxx gear, the only thing you're actually good at is healing. There aren't many frost mages, protection warriors, holy priests, or combat rogues. Even hunters can usually take you. Nature resist spec pet + scatter shot keeps you from taking advantage of the dead zone to root and nuke and FD/freezing trap + improved wingclip + counterattack + scare beast allow them to kite you effectively in bear.

As for the Warden staff, if you already have close to 75% damage mitigation from armor, you may be better off with one of the feral AP weapons. Otherwise, keep the Warden.

This may change whenever the 2.0 patch goes live. We'll have to see. My initial impression is that most of the other classes got buffed in PvP more than we did, particularly if you don't have Atiesh or The End of Dreams to make up for weapon scaling issues.

Claritondeus
11-27-2006, 06:24 PM
Even hunters can usually take you. Nature resist spec pet + scatter shot keeps you from taking advantage of the dead zone to root and nuke and FD/freezing trap + improved wingclip + counterattack + scare beast allow them to kite you effectively in bear.

Feral charge.

If I'm pvp'ing in a group, I Keep on my AC rings and trinkets (Ring of Prot, SHOTM and MoTyrany), and then the rest of my gear is my healing stuff, with my Warden Staff handy. I have found that I'm much more usefull healing in PvP.

But for just runnign around in the world looking for someone to fight 1v1, or world pvp'ing at Kargath or Blackrock Mountain, I keep on a set of my hybrid gear.

Sond
11-28-2006, 04:08 PM
Ok. You Feral Charge. He Feigns Death + Freezing Trap, steps to 8 yards after the snare wears off and hits you with Arcane shot to bypass your armor right as the trap wears off at 26 seconds. Then he steps forward, hits you with Scatter Shot putting you out of action for another 4 seconds, so he can Feign Death, Freezing Trap, Arcane Shot, Scatter Shot you again until you die.

The first time he may use Aimed Shot to see if you have good armor or not and then make the decision whether to switch to Arcane.

If Feign Death or Freezing Trap is on cooldown at the start, he only has to stay alive a maximum of 30 seconds. Or he could let you think it's on cooldown, you feral charge, he starts to cast Scare Beast, you shift so you aren't running around aimlessly for 20 seconds, and now you're frozen in caster waiting for him to finish you off.

You must be used to Hunters that panic when someone actually gets close to them. Feral Charge does not work on PvP Hunters.

lorath
11-28-2006, 05:49 PM
I was always for having hybrid stats. I laughed at the Druids who wore Shadowcraft gear when they hit 60. Heck, I dont even wear my Boots of the Vanguard or Thick Silithid Chest because I prefer my PvP set. I have almost 1300 AP, 30% crit, 4.6k HP, and 5k Mana. I hit like a truck and have tons of mana to shift and heal.

http://www.rbob.net/images/strategolorath2.jpg

:)

Khar
11-29-2006, 07:43 AM
Hunters are... interesting in pvp. I used to think hunters were wtfeasy to kill with my druid, until I started fighting some kickass pvp hunters. ;) That's because there's sooo many bad hunters out there, kinda like warriors, and yeah, they're easy to kill, feral charge and they just kinda, dunno what to do, and eventually die to mauls. But good pvp hunters, that know how to use their cooldowns, have good pvp talents, and know how to kite exceptionally well are a fun challenge. :) They'll be even more so come BC. Arcane shot got a huge bonus, which goes right through our bear armor.

Sond
11-29-2006, 03:59 PM
No. PvP Hunters aren't a fun challenge unless you're Moonkin. Then you might be able to pull off root and nuke. Getting in melee range of a PvP Hunter is like getting jumped by a stunlock rogue. Just go get a drink because you aren't going to get to do anything until after you rez.

Brekster
11-30-2006, 10:41 AM
dont know if I have fought bad hunters or what.. But I met a full PVP spec hunter with some Marshal gear...

Not much problems there tbh, and I'm wearing my rank 8 gear + my Tier2 helm and Will Of Arlokk - and dmg / armor rings...

I just basicly outlast him.. I'm staying healed and in bear without wasting my mana - and just wait until he wears off his mana - cuz hunters in PVP will spam it all in the start to try and finish you off fast - but then... when they'r mana is gone... The hunter is as easy as anything...

Sond
11-30-2006, 02:38 PM
PvP rank is all about time not skill.

In PvP, a Hunter is all about control. You don't even get to move unless the Hunter lets you move. A survival spec (eg PvP) Hunter can drop a 26 second Freeze Trap every 26 seconds. Even if he wants to speed things up a bit and allows you to get a couple hits in, he has more than enough time to bandage while you're frozen.

I'm happy for you that the hunters in your battlegroup suck. A lot of the ones in mine don't. Don't for a second think that Hunters are easy because the ones you fight don't know how to play.

Brekster
12-01-2006, 03:48 AM
Either the hunters suck on my server, or the druids are good...

Sond
12-01-2006, 09:51 AM
It doesn't matter how good you are after the first freeze trap.

lorath
12-01-2006, 09:56 AM
Wrong. Ive played both good and bad hunters. Ive owned them on live and Ive owned them on PTR. And Im not talking about just good hunters, Im talking about hunters in Tier 2.5 that know what they are doing. Heck, I even smoked one the other day that ice trapped me off the start and he still couldnt kill me.

The trick to hunters is you have to watch them carefully. If you see them bend down, make a note of that spot in your mind and dont go near it. If he choose to stand on it at the beginning of the duel, unstealth behind him and root him, then sleep his pet. You can stay out of range of the ice trap and still melee him while hes rooted. When he scatters, wait til it wears off and go bear. Odds are, the hunter will move directly across from you so the ice trap is between you two. Strafe to the left or right and feral charge so your not passing over the trap. Keep a natures grasp up because it will help when he starts spamming wing clip. Other than that, build 5 combo points when you can and drop rips and moonfires on em. Rejuv when you go caster and keep moving.

Hunters are probably my easiest kill. Oh yea...I threw together a small PvP video after I hit warlord. Im still working on making a better one but I need to play more and record more footage.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4146191845118430565&q=furor&hl=en

Sond
12-01-2006, 12:39 PM
You do realize that Tier 1/2 is much better for a PvP Hunter than Tier 2.5? Good luck trying to sleep a pet with 180+ NR.

But you manage to do that and melee him until he scatters. Instead of trying to get range, he runs on top of you and drops a freeze trap. He waits till the trap is about to expire, hits you with arcane shot from minimum range, steps forward, hits you with scatter shot, runs on top of you, drops another freeze trap and repeats until you are dead. Please note that if he has his timing down, your only chance to perform any action whatsoever is limited to the 1.5s window between arcane and scatter.

So what do you do then? That's how the Hunters I go up against fight. The only tactic I've found that works at all is to respec Moonkin, root the hunter, ignore the pet and try to nuke the hunter before he can close to melee range to drop the trap. This discussion is about feral, so that tactic doesn't really apply.

lorath
12-01-2006, 01:02 PM
Ive beaten Hunters in Tier 1, Tier 2, and Tier 2.5. Never fought one with Tier 3. I dont care how many times they ice trap and arcane shot, they are still not an issue if you know how to play a feral druid well. Moonkin I would have no clue because Ive never really played it long enough to learn it.

In fact, I beat a hunter on PTR the other day that was wearing Dragonstalker, had a Flask of the Titans up, but he was a pet specd hunter so I dont know if that counts. He used that new enrage talent that makes him and his pet glow red.

LieutenantKettch
12-01-2006, 01:50 PM
Ive beaten Hunters in Tier 1, Tier 2, and Tier 2.5. Never fought one with Tier 3. I dont care how many times they ice trap and arcane shot, they are still not an issue if you know how to play a feral druid well.

Agreed. To assume that 100% of the hunters on someone's server are braindead because a druid can beat them is a flawed line of thinking. I'll can kill hunters too good and bad, with my crap gear, it just takes some imagination and foresight.

Claritondeus
12-01-2006, 04:55 PM
Sond, sounds like you should be playing a hunter and not a druid. The official wow forums are full of people who flame druids and express over and over how we suck and can't beat any other class. You may like it over there.

I personally have a hard time against hunters, but as Lorath said, strafing around Freezing Traps and Feral Charge, as well as bash, and an ass-load of armor in bearform go a long way. I duel a good full T1 hunter who is a close RL friend all the time, and its usually a really close fight. He is always mad when I beat him more than half the time, saying "dam, i killed u like 6 times. how do you heal yourself that much" I'm sure you are probably going to say that he sucks so eh /shrug. Oh well.

goa
12-02-2006, 12:56 AM
Hunters are not very hard if you just time your charges and have lots of AC to boot. Sooner or later he will run oom and he will be a cake walk.

But saying that you always should do this and/or that is only half true as people adapt and play differently.. and some classes have advantages over others by default. I don't really count duels as "real" PvP as you know what you are up against and can prepare for it before hand.

Falloraan
12-04-2006, 12:45 PM
Hunters are not very hard if you just time your charges and have lots of AC to boot. Sooner or later he will run oom and he will be a cake walk.
Good hunter won't run out of mana. Ice trap you and eat/drink.

lorath
12-04-2006, 01:04 PM
Who cares if they friggin run out of mana or not. I can kill a hunter before he goes through 50% of his mana. Im half tempted to make a small PvP video of just me fighting hunters and posting it here to end this nonsense.

Claritondeus
12-04-2006, 01:24 PM
Do it.

Sond
12-04-2006, 05:20 PM
Sond, sounds like you should be playing a hunter and not a druid. The official wow forums are full of people who flame druids and express over and over how we suck and can't beat any other class. You may like it over there.


Sounds like you should practice your reading comprehension.

I didn't say druids suck. I also didn't say we can't beat any other class.

What I have said is that I often end up fighting hunters that use a strategy that I have not found a way to beat.

Your answer of "Feral Charge" doesn't work because they aren't trying to kite me. "Sleep the pet" doesn't work because the pet has massive NR. "Shift and heal" doesn't work because the second I shift, I'm frozen in caster and waiting for the Aimed Shot crit to finish me off.

So before you put any more words in my mouth, why don't you attempt to come up with a solution that consists of more than a sentence fragment.

Kyane
12-04-2006, 05:45 PM
I like lemon meringue pie, how about you guys?

Arestavo
12-04-2006, 07:27 PM
I prefer pumpkin pie myself, but lemon meringue pie is good too :)

Brekster
12-05-2006, 03:09 AM
Sond... If you get sleeped everytime you get into caster, you should work out you're timing.... I can always see when a hunter lays down his trap (tbh that is not hard)... In wich cases you can avoid them, or at least dont step in them when you dont want to....

l2p