I'm really not very happy with the way that pug druids heal. I think it has to do with most of them playing feral till 60 while trying to heal instances.

I had one guy say he would heal in ST. It was remarkable to me that he decided that he could heal in bear form o.O DM E guy didn't go in bear form but my ghad I would have been better off with bandages.

Healing and tanking are two very different things and i'm becoming very reluctant to take on a druid healer, or healadin for that matter.

For the same reason, I am really disliking warriors for tanking lately as well. The vast majority of warriors in pugs i've seen recently feel that they don't need to be in defensive stance nor need a shield. I don't want to hear how "I can tank jsut as good with 2hander/duel weild" anymore. Grats, you're wiping us because of your ignorance of threat and aggro management...

Sincerely,

Frustrated with pugs :(

I have remained feral into "end game", but i always healed when necessary while levelling ( i can't remember an instance that I haven't healed in). But I know of some druids who think "I don't heal", and so they will have had less practise. Once you get into a routine though, it is hard to break out of it, so (unless he stayed in Bear Form for the duration of the instance - in which case he is a complete and utter nooby noob noob) I like to think he had assessed the situation, and was lending a hand where necessary with what he knew best. (Adapting to the situation is what we do best:) )

Edit: You haven't mentioned what class you are though, I would be interested to find out...

Moved to Rants forum. :)

It's in your right to leave horrible groups. If you feel within the first couple of pulls that something isn't going to work, make the group know so no one wastes their time. Even people who wipe the groups and 'suck' won't want to waste their time either.

Most of the pug druid healers I've had in my groups have been alright, I guess, although sometimes bored out of their minds and showing it in their performance... though the other night I had the "pleasure" of having an obnoxious feral in a pug, they exist too sadly >.> <.< He was bragging about his 8k buffed armor (I didn't have the heart to tell him mine lol), fighting with the pug resto druid over 15m blessings (he demanded might of course,5m might on bosses just wasn't enough), and uh, I really dunno, musta had a stick up his ass about me being MT, cause he kept purposely trying to take aggro off me meanwhile totally ignoring the baddies he was supposed to be offtanking. >.> All in all it just kinda reassured me of why I don't pug much. :/

I think it has to do with most of them playing feral till 60 while trying to heal instances.


Totally! Most druids I know spend 90% of their time in Cat mode, since you can take mobs down faster. So if they find themselves in a group where they're forced to heal, they start off in caster form but eventually switch back to feral. I'm an oddball, as I never specc'ed feral at all, only resto/balance. So I consider myself to be a pretty decent healer. :sumo:

Was gonna rant ... then changed my mind. Every class has its bad players and its good players. Thats part of the experience.

Interesting enough I was in DM this weekend and the druid was resto so we had him tank o.O LOL Did a great job too. We didn't wipe once. Went with a priest and the first time we we were sweet, the second time not so good.

We went to scholo, druid was in cat. Not so good. We basically sucked though with only me as the 60 priest. Everyone else was 56-58.

Thanara is my 40-42? druid. I haven't played her in a while and like one of the posters said, I am in cat form all the time. I never pug with her.

I have to admit that I haven't set a second set of hot keys for healing yet. I know if I tried to heal without the hot keys, that I would pretty much be a liability and not an asset in a group.

I'm thinking of lvl the druid now though but I have a lot of other things on my plate at the moment. I've got a 38 rogue I was thinking of lvling to mine dark iron ore in brd for rep but i'm also working on timbermaw rep too :(

This rep business is killing me btw.

The rep "thing" kills us all in some way or another but at least its something to do when not raiding.

The one thing that I noticed is Druids who run around in feral gear healing the group. When asked why, the reply I get is that if they need to go feral that they are prepared. I feel that this is a bit noobish since your healing goes down the drain with pure feral gear. At least get the feralheart set so u have a hybrid gear that then gives the best of both worlds but please don't heal in feral gear cause your making the rest of us look stupid.

Damn... Wasn't gonna rant.

Yeah... every druid should have a healer set AND a hybrid set or 2 hotkeyed to easily switch between em when need be. I can't stand healing much in pure feral gear, wipes my mana so quick, but when I change gear, no problem. :) I end up with such random gear on fights like ony where I do a bit of everything haha, but it works >.>

For the same reason, I am really disliking warriors for tanking lately as well. The vast majority of warriors in pugs i've seen recently feel that they don't need to be in defensive stance nor need a shield. I don't want to hear how "I can tank jsut as good with 2hander/duel weild" anymore. Grats, you're wiping us because of your ignorance of threat and aggro management...



Semi-off topic, but 2H/duel wield can hold just as much aggro (if not more) in defensive stance than with shield (unless you're fully protection spec and have shield slam). I have a warrior alt, and I always duel-wield tank in the 5-man instances for the added dps. Sunder armor can be applied regardless of weapon choice. The threat generated is the same as well. That being said, I wouldn't suggest it unless you have a very competent healer with you.

And I agree with Kromas, every class has its good and bad players.

The thrust of what I was saying was that pugs (in this post druids and warriors but others as well) have a hard time paying two masters.

If you are dps catter, you will have a hard time being a healer. If you are dps warrior you will have a hard time being a tank. The group doesn't need you to be dps. If they want you to tank, then slap on the shield, that's why there are rogues and mages.

I disagree with the mentality that, I am a dps warrior and I can dps as well as anyone, blah blah blah. You need team work and your role is to tank. If you aren't sundering or you aren't using a shield you make it harder for everyone else.

And your comment about the priest is point of fact. You are making it harder for the priest and taking his/her casting time/mana so you can dps. If you want to dps fine but find a group that needs you to dps. If you are brought on to tank, then tank.

If a Druid is the main healer, the tank should be using a shield. Period. I don't care how well you can keep aggro with a 2H, I can't bubble you like a Priest can. That means to keep you alive I eventually pull aggro from everything else that isn't CC'd or actively being offtanked.

As for the Druid going bear in ST, maybe your CC or AOE was lacking. A Druid that doesn't shift to bear when they have a couple whelps on them is a dead Druid. A Druid that shifts to bear until someone peels the whelps off him stays alive and can start healing again.

And Druids having problems filling different roles? That's why you carry at least two sets of gear. I have three I carry normally (cat, bear, healer) and three more in the bank for special cases (fire resist, nature resist, frost resist).

I generally don't have bad PUGs. Usually it's pretty clear from the start whether it's going to work or not. The thing is you can't be afraid to leave if it's going to be bad.

Here are some of the rules I follow with PUGs

1) If you're healing and after your first HT4 everything but the MT target is on you, it may be bad. It's still workable as long as you have a Paladin to pick up your slack while you're in bear waiting for help. If you get yelled at for going bear, just leave. It isn't worth the aggravation or repair bill.

2) If you have to chain heal the MT because he refuses to strap on a shield, and you aren't on the 45 min Baron run, just leave.

3) If you're tanking and the priest is in shadow form, just leave.

4) If you're tanking and you have to bash, shift, and heal someone else because the priest is too busy DPSing, just leave.

5) If you are DPS and have to shift and heal someone else because the Priest is DPSing, offer to switch roles with the Priest. If that doesn't work out, just leave.

6) If you get invited to an UBRS group and don't get any response when you ask if anyone has the key, everyone heads to BRS, and then no one has key, just leave. If no one else has even considered the need for the key, you're not even going to get to Drak with that group.

7) If the party is struggling, try to get everyone on Vent. Vent can make a huge difference in an otherwise poor party. If no one else has Vent, leave. Seriously. I have yet to run across a decent player that can't at least listen on Vent.

8) If anyone says "I don't do X" where X is one of that classes generally accepted roles in a group, it could be bad. Odds are at some point they will need to do X to prevent a wipe. If it's a Druid or Paladin that says "I don't heal" and you have enough healing otherwise, it may be possible to continue. If you get a Warrior that says "I don't tank" or a Priest that says "I don't heal", just leave.

Eventually you get a sense for which groups have potential and which are doomed to failure. Once you learn to recognize the failures before they waste much of your time, PUGs become a lot more fun.

Like Kromas said every class has good players and bad players. I was in PUG the other night with 2 hunters and they both sucked. DPS classes being the easiest classes to play you'd think it wouldn't be hard to learn.

Warriors who play Fury to level then think they can tank suck. Sorry it's obvious when I pull aggro off you because I had to heal you and you don't realize it until I'm tanking in Bear form with my healing gear on.

Priests who level as shadow spec and sit around nuking until they are oom then think they can heal suck.

Mages who just AE pull and don't let the ****ty tank even try and grab aggro don't even get a heal from me.

Melee Hunter anyone??? Hunters who don't know how to macro hunter's mark and pet attack. Any Hunter who enters an instance with me and dismisses their pet get's booted. You're too retarded to play in my group. You've already been told too often that you suck so why should I have to tell you again?

Rogues who don't get imp sap.... go solo something get out of Scholo or UBRS.

Warlocks who don't know how to keep that damn succubus from charming a mob are just not good enough for me. How about the ones who only know how to use the Imp?

Umm...normally pets are not used in any 40 man raid. And Improved Sap is crap mostly since in raids (20+) you have mages to sheep.

Warriors who play Fury to level then think they can tank suck. Sorry it's obvious when I pull aggro off you because I had to heal you and you don't realize it until I'm tanking in Bear form with my healing gear on.

Melee Hunter anyone??? Hunters who don't know how to macro hunter's mark and pet attack. Any Hunter who enters an instance with me and dismisses their pet get's booted. You're too retarded to play in my group. You've already been told too often that you suck so why should I have to tell you again?

Rogues who don't get imp sap.... go solo something get out of Scholo or UBRS.

Warlocks who don't know how to keep that damn succubus from charming a mob are just not good enough for me. How about the ones who only know how to use the Imp?

First, if you're pulling aggro off of a tank, most likely, your tank just sucks or you healed prematurely. I've had mages crit back to back for 1.5k dmg and was still able to hold aggro. One of you needs to learn to play. I "tank" all of the 5-man instances (strat/SM2/scholo) and UBRS with full dps gear and duel wielding swords. Other than bosses, I don't put on a shield. Healers at that level should not have a problem healing. Plus, I usually only run those instances with friends and we're decently geared.

As for your other comments....certain specs are better for 40 man raids and some are more useful for 5 man instances. In 40 man raids, hunters rarely have pets out unless its for certain pulls. No 40 man raiding rogue will have imp sap. Its either hemo build or combat. And locks should always have their imps out for instances/raiding. Again, the point is, the instances that you're running will decide the more useful spec.

I agree, 5man instances and/or 10man raids are kinda a different world than 20-40man raiding.

Can't wait for Hellfire Citadel 5 man runs! ;)

Yakiniku, I think that your perspective is not consistent with what most of us are talking about.

If you are running around with tier 2 or 3 equipment and by your admission grouping with a group of friends who are well equipped then you shouldn't be expecting to be talking about the same thing that we are facing.

Great equipement can mitigate bad strategy and bad play. That's not a big surprise.

But look back to when you didnt have great equipement and were in pugs. This is where I am at the moment. I play in pugs where almost all of the players have green items (and many of them with more green than blue).

If you dont have equipment to mitigate, then tactics and spec do in fact matter and they matter a great deal.

Yakiniku, I think that your perspective is not consistent with what most of us are talking about.

If you are running around with tier 2 or 3 equipment and by your admission grouping with a group of friends who are well equipped then you shouldn't be expecting to be talking about the same thing that we are facing.

Great equipement can mitigate bad strategy and bad play. That's not a big surprise.

But look back to when you didnt have great equipement and were in pugs. This is where I am at the moment. I play in pugs where almost all of the players have green items (and many of them with more green than blue).

If you dont have equipment to mitigate, then tactics and spec do in fact matter and they matter a great deal.

I agree. I believe I mentioned that spec matters a lot (depending on if you do 40man raids or 5 man instances). However, individual skill > all. Some people know how to play certain classes. Others don't have a clue. Gear cannot overcome strategy and bad play.

As for my perspective, I remember all to well being "undergeared". I've had to gear up 3 level 60s. That being said, a competent group can easily do the 5 man runs.

Most of the warriors I've grouped with while leveling just sucked. I'd have to explain in painful detail that I'm going to put a rejuv on them before they pull or if they were really crappy I'd have to hit them with a regrowth. Some of us don't have the luxury of grouping with "decently geared" friends. We just pick up people who aren't spamming the LFG channel with too much innane garbaged. I've met warriors who doesn't understand that if he pulled 2 or 3 mobs and I heal him one of them might come after me. /shrug Poor player yeah, I'd say.

I know my ignore list is filled with the names of crappy tanks and hunters and rogues. The sad part is this game is so easy to play yet there are still people who don't understand it.

I play a healer because in other mmo's I knew it was hard to find a good one and it's a critical part of any group. I am only starting to do raids like MC but I think imp sap is very handy for rogues in most instances.

I find pugs quite interesting but also quite a challenge at times. Sometimes you can't tell what a group is like until you play with them for a bit though. I think that the key to a good pug is having every play knowing what they are doing though even if they are not perfect for the role.

One of the strangest combos I've had is myself (druid), a warlock, hunter and paladin to do the arms wing of SM. We had a fighter but he DC'd and we were left with four. I thought we that we wouldn't make it far but ended up completing the wing with no wipes (I was healing, pally was tank). We were undergeared but all skilled at our own class and knew what worked best at each time, which is why it worked.

Ok so this isn't a terribly hard instance, but the only reason I remember it was because I was shocked at how well having a few people that actually knew how to play worked.

Hm, well, the better geared warriors get, the easier it is for them to actually hold aggro with full DPS gear in 5-mans. Well-geared prot warriors sometimes have to strap on full DPS gear just to tank in 5 mans, because their prot gear damage mitigation is too "high" for the mobs, and they're not generating enough aggro that way. >.> I'm even noticing that with my non-uber bear gear... sometimes in 5 mans I'll put on most of my cat gear for trash mobs, just cause I hold more aggro that way, then things die faster.

When first starting 5-mans however, it's different. If your warrior's sitting there with a green 2 hander, has 4k HP, and says he's an uber tank just as you pull aggro off him with a rejuv, yeah, you're gonna have problems.

Gear makes a big difference when tanking. :) In 5-mans, 2-handers on trash mobs don't always mean you're in trouble when the warrior's smart and has good gear.

And yeah, I gotta agree with the imp sap thing, it's so not necessary after 10man dungeons, isn't even plausible for 20 man raids and up, which is why most rogues I know don't even have it. Hunter pet damage isn't really uber right now either in 20 mans and up, which is why most marks/surv hunters don't even bother pulling out their pet unless they need it for a pull or for emergency off-tanking. A pet doing 50 damge on a boss then dying in one AoE is pretty laughable. >.> Luckily hunter pets are becoming better in BC, though. :) I'm looking forward to that, might even start raiding with my hunter again.

And ooooh yeah, I'm sooo looking forward to new 5 mans to tank for :D 5 man runs with guildies are so much fun.

I'm looking forward to those new 5man dungeons, as well as the smaller raids. There are just too many slackers in my guild right now, and I often wonder if they're really there or jacking off in the bathroom.

We recently completed the warlock steed quest in Dire Maul without any of the base classes.We were two warlocks, two druids (me being feral and the other being oomkin) and a shammy. We only wiped once (Zerg mobs at start of summoning steed) and after changing two small details to our strategy we succeeded the second time with minimal effort. Sure ... most of us had very good gear but gear can only offset so much and ultimately strategy decides FTW or FTL.

I really enjoy PuGs tho its been a while since I was with one(ty Blizz for completly screwing up LFG channel), as its been mainly 40 man raiding lately for me.

PuGs is the way to meet new freinds, which is the main reason for me still playing wow. Of course there are the general a**es around (Im sure that Ive been one on any of my 'bad' days, and I belive that anyone can be), but the joy when meeting new, freindly and open minded people who either know how to play or are keen to learn how to play their class, balance out the negative about PuGing by far.

I hope that the new LFG channel will make pugging reach higher grounds when the BC goes live. Going thru ZG, RAQ, MC and BWL , I have to say that none of them really beats the 5 man instances, the 5 man instances make every class go way and beyond what their 'initial task' requires and everyone need to pull out their best, if not 'overgeared' for those instances.

Edit; and the lock mount quest in DM is a great encounter I really enjoy doing that one :D
EDIT2; take the liberty to post a guideline I wrote for the guild some time ago when we had some trouble with immature guild members who couldnt behave, accused of ninja looting etc. Hope its not too upsetting with the long post :behindcom


This might be completely clear to some, but not to all, especially if you are new to the game and/or MMORPG.

With gaining higher level with your character you soon find out that teaming up with others will give you access and completing to harder tasks and quests. This is for me probably the most fun aspects of the game, when you with your old or newly found friends take down a creature 10 times you in size and strength.

Don’t be afraid to ask a level 60 for help in guild chat, but don’t take for granted that they will drop all that they are doing at the moment to aid you. Even if a level 60 could run you thru Deadmines or Scarlet Monastary in 30 minutes, it would ruin your fun and experience in completing it and learning your class.
Gathering a PUG (pick up group) is a great way to find new friends.
Wiping is a part of going into instances, with that you’ll learn your class and other classes pro’s and con’s.

Sometimes people have silenced guild chat because they don’t wish to be disturbed – they might be in a raid or have other business at the moment, could be in Ironforge just to find a crafter for some item they need, and don’t wish to leave at that moment.

¤ It's a learning process - enjoy it!

Everyone makes mistakes, yes even you! Getting angry at someone who's made a mistake wont get you any further. Find out why it went wrong and share your experience. Communicate what each member of the group should do and when. Don’t take for granted that someone else is a mind reader, because you may be one.

You might think your way of doing things is right, but others will have their ideas too. Listen to what others say and especially if they have been there many times. Don’t be afraid to ask what the party/raid leader would want you to do, and remember there’s always a first time for everyone.

You might be the most experienced Rogue/Warrior etc in the game, but you still need to work as a team, to understand other classes weaknesses and strengths. Listen to your team to get the best out of them.

¤ People give you their time and help – return their favour!

As the group is made up of several people with different schedules and times, respect that some don't want to wait for you, while you have dinner (or whatever you may have to do!). If you are about to join a group and have to leave/go away at a certain point - tell your fellow members in advance. Maybe you all can meet up and go later, or maybe they can arrange a replacement for you. The more advance warning you give them, the easier it will be for them to work around you.

Sometimes there are accidents or other things that make you have to rush away AFK - but tell them that it’s urgent that you leave. We are all humans and need a bio-brake once in a while, make sure your party knows you will be away for a minute or two.

I've been in a group where one person had to leave urgently, later he apologised and told us that his basement been flooded and he had to save what could be saved - of course all understood that.

Don't ever reply to someone with disrespect and nonchalance, if they are questioning why you suddenly went AFK/disconnecting without saying, tell them why you had to rush away and they might understand you.

Always help others complete their tasks and quests and don’t leave the group because you are finished.

¤ Communication benefits all.

This is an English speaking guild in an English speaking realm, make sure all can understand you and speak English. You will not get that quest/item if you don’t communicate with those you are partying with. Scroll up in your chat window and read it again. If you have trouble understanding make sure that people know and they will explain.

Make sure that everyone in the raid/party knows and understand the loot-rules during your run, this way there won't be any missunderstandings later.

Some classes are better at certain tasks. Even though most classes are very versatile it might not be such a good idea to start tanking as a cloth wearer in an instance. Smile

What classes are in your party? Where would you do most good for all of you? With 2 warriors in a group, perhaps only one would be needed to tank. You might be 2 hunters in the group, perhaps it’s good you bring different type of pets, 1 bear and 1 cat. Ask your fellow party/raid member what build he has and decide in advance your roles in the party.

If you can buff others - make sure you keep all in the party/raid buffed. Most classes have a buff to give others, make sure you use it. If someone forgot to buff you, just ask them politely to buff.

If you are a alchemist you may have an extra potion of some sort that would be handy for someone else against a boss, share it, you are going to be rewarded when the loot is spread and you are a major part of the group downing that boss.

Remember to NEVER loot while you are in battle, don’t loot until all are resurrected and gathered.

Loot should primary go the group members who gain most from it. Don’t take what you can’t use or don’t need just because you need gold. Remember though that druids might want typical warrior rings and trinkets and paladins might want to wear cloth for the healing ability that item might have, same goes for other classes.

Never NEVER ever ninja loot an item, with pictures as evidence it will result in kick from guild and permanent ban.


¤ Always treat others as you want to be treated - with respect.

Kinsmen have a good reputation in the realm, we all like to keep it that way. If you haven’t read yet (or have forgotten them!) its time to read the guild guidelines. Anyone within Kinsmen or not, Officer or Citizen should be treated with equal amount of respect. If you are in a group with others don’t let the rest of Kinsmen look bad because you can’t behave. If we get too many complains regarding you, we might have to remove you from the guild to spare our good name.

When the day ends it’s not the loot that you will remember, it’s how you got it and the fun you had while getting it.



written by Aedui

I'm really not very happy with the way that pug druids heal. I think it has to do with most of them playing feral till 60 while trying to heal instances.

I had one guy say he would heal in ST. It was remarkable to me that he decided that he could heal in bear form o.O DM E guy didn't go in bear form but my ghad I would have been better off with bandages.

Healing and tanking are two very different things and i'm becoming very reluctant to take on a druid healer, or healadin for that matter.

For the same reason, I am really disliking warriors for tanking lately as well. The vast majority of warriors in pugs i've seen recently feel that they don't need to be in defensive stance nor need a shield. I don't want to hear how "I can tank jsut as good with 2hander/duel weild" anymore. Grats, you're wiping us because of your ignorance of threat and aggro management...

Sincerely,

Frustrated with pugs :(
Get a guild!!!!

Right on! I am in a guild (the GM in fact lol). We've only been around for a few months and most our people have been with us since they were below level 10. As a result, i'm in the situation a lot casual guilds find themselves, trying to provide some content for your very few 60's while keeping the majority of your guild happy.

Semi-off topic, but 2H/duel wield can hold just as much aggro (if not more) in defensive stance than with shield (unless you're fully protection spec and have shield slam). I have a warrior alt, and I always duel-wield tank in the 5-man instances for the added dps. Sunder armor can be applied regardless of weapon choice. The threat generated is the same as well. That being said, I wouldn't suggest it unless you have a very competent healer with you.

And I agree with Kromas, every class has its good and bad players.

Def stance + shield = helping mitgate damage to help the healer keep you alive w/o drainging their pool. Tanks MUST think of more than themselves. Too many warrior's try to be plate wearing rogues. Yes you _can_ tank in any stance you want, but to be the most effective for the goup, PLEASE use a damn shield and defensive stance.

Def stance + shield = helping mitigate damage to help the healer keep you alive w/o draining their pool.

... to be the most effective for the goup, PLEASE use a damn shield and defensive stance.

Agreed. A 60 warrior with shield can be 7000 armor or higher (gear dependent) plus buffs, and defensive stance reduces dmg taken by 10%. A much easier heal.

Semi-off topic, but 2H/duel wield can hold just as much aggro (if not more) in defensive stance than with shield (unless you're fully protection spec and have shield slam). I have a warrior alt, and I always duel-wield tank in the 5-man instances for the added dps. Sunder armor can be applied regardless of weapon choice. The threat generated is the same as well. That being said, I wouldn't suggest it unless you have a very competent healer with you.

And I agree with Kromas, every class has its good and bad players.


Part of 'tanking well' is mitigating damage. Holding aggro on a mob is worthless if it two-shots you. Having both a warrior and a druid, I understand this from both ends. I find tanking on my warrior generally boring as hell. I ask people to pull mobs off me. What I don't do is tank with a two-hander for kicks unless I clear it with my healers first. Generally, by asking first, they say "Let's give it a try on the first few mobs and see how it goes, damage-wise" After that, everyone is happy because they are prepared and I get to see some bigger numbers. I'm fairly certain the person that made the comment about 'tanking as well with a two-hander' was referring to the incoming damage vs the marginal increase in damage output.

EDIT: I should finish reading the thread before responding. . . .

Just to follow on that point, the other advantage to using the shield is to have Shield Slam (if you went that far in the Prot tree), or at the very least, Shield Bash. Spend the two points in improved shield bash so that you can silence casters for a few seconds. Shield Bash is very handy if you time it just right.

Healing and tanking are two very different things and i'm becoming very reluctant to take on a druid healer, or healadin for that matter.

Last night I got to run SM 2 times back-to-back... Once as a tank (for the first part) and then once as a healer (through the first part)

it was awesome! I was a little reluctant to use the "Looking for Group" interface, but when i did, I was the leader for the first group. I expressed that I was feral spec'd, but had some decent healer gear, but i would like to give tanking a shot... if it didn't work out, i would gladly step back and be a healer... for the first part through SM cath, everything went REALLY well... i had a shammy healing me, and no one died. i did have some problems holding aggro though. I defintely need to get better with that. When we got to the doors, someone suggested range pulling, so i put on my healer gear, and stepped back to heal with no isssues... i found that throwing out the HoTs for the "quick" heal until i could come back around for the thourough heal was working pretty well, as long as i stayed by the mana totem... inside the double doors, i died once in front of the door on the left side of the steps when i pulled aggro from healing. I was the only one that died, after that, i went back to tanking, with the shammy healing me, and no more issues.

right after that, someone asked me to run SM armory with them, and i got the same shammy in my group again. I was healer for the first part, and we had one complete wipe at one point when i was oom... no one blamed me, no one was bent out of shape, we just picked up where we left off... i asked to tank for a little bit, and that went smoothly as well... all in all it was a good night... i dinged 38, and got halfway through to 39 and learned a good bit, and found out some things that i need to learn more about... which brings up this question:

what's the most efficient way to build rage and hold aggro? i used "challenging roar" as often as i could, with a 10 min cooldown, and still i had to chase mobs to get them back on me...

Challenging Roar is really only a situational use ( ie the 10 min cooldown ) and best for groups for 4-5+ when you need to group them up for AoE or something along those lines.

Here's a great post on tanking: http://wow.forums.thedruidsgrove.org/showthread.php?t=11517

Since you don't have mangle yet, you'll want to maul and swipe as often as you can. Hit one target, tab, hit the next, tab, hit the next, and cycle through the pulled group. Make sure to keep demoralizing roar and feral faerie fire up ( assuming you have that ).

Hope that helps.