Thread title pretty much says it all..

I was reading the crit chance thread, and started wondering if anyone actually takes on a DPS role in kitty form...

What's the highest crit chance you've gotten in kitty? Right now I'm rocking somewhere around a 29. something something % chance to crit in kitty form, wearing kitty gear... Where's the ceiling on crit chance?

I've done DPS in lower level instances, or when the group im with is SO good, that they actually don't even need me there, as is the case in some guild runs ( /proud of the guild im in ) but never as a NEEDED role. Rogues or hunters or mages are the desired class with their CC.

Not sure if this is posted in the right forum, but didn't know where else to post. If this isn't the right place, admin please feel free to move it.

Welcome to TBC. All druid spec's have come a long way and are more than viable (especially Feral). But the better question is 'Are Feral druid's viable in raids and heroic instances?'

Great thing about feral druid is that your DPS and Tanking spec are identical. Please don't gimp yourself by marketing yourself for raids and heroics by saying you are dps only. Sometimes you will need to tank when your group cannot find one, or you can dish out amazing kitty dps when you already have a tank.

ps. idk what exactly the crit chance cap is but your kitty crit chance will be very high (25%+ range ez). but focus more on AP for your dps.

feral druids excel as a dps class from early dungeon romps, all the way to early 25 man raids (mag, gruul). however, once we get into tk/scc, our dps scales poorly compared to the other dps classes.

once a warrior picks up their tier 3 crafted weapons, or similar ilvl weapons > than tier 3, we fall behind quickly. i blame itemization, but i also blame the whole feral atkpwr system. it'll take a weapon with crazy feral atkpwr to match those tier 3 and > weapons. they should rebuild that system, so it scales in line with the other dps classes. i'm not saying our dps output should be the same as a combat sword rogue, but at least be in line with an arms spec'd warrior.

good thing is, our strength lies in our ability to tank & dps with the same spec. warriors need to spec prot to out tank a feral druid, but then they can't excel at dps like that.

so to answer the question. yes, we excel as a dps class, but at the same time, no, we don't. :)

Druids can do really good DPS, but at the same time you should NOT expect to top the charts, and be behind warlocks, mages and rogue ( and some hunters if they know what they are doing ).

Don't worry.. I firmly believe ANY raid setup has use for a feral druid in kitty form.. if not for emergency OT:ing.. the aura boosts others (imp LotP is amazing). Sure, you wont be the _best_ at dps.. but then again, you're not supposed to.

so in the past few days, i've been running Steam Vaults to grind Cenarion Refuge rep. (I'm only 9,000 rep away from Earthwarden, but i digress)...
In that that time with SO many runs, i've gotten the chance to OT and that was FUN FUN FUN... I love having the freedom to pull a mob in bear, and when MT's mobs are dealt with and MT takes over on my pull, i switch out to heal, switch into kitty and claw claw claw...
Bosses were fun, too... kitty form for dps, pop out to OH, hit healer with innervate, back into kitty ftw... good stuff...

here's another question, i was OT'ing, and when MT came to my mob, he had NO problem snatching aggro away from me. What attacks do you guys use for generating threat? I have had some issues pulling aggro off enhance spec'd shammies, especially when they're using windfury...

thought? suggestions?

In a 5-man grp playing as a kitty I can compete with dps especially if you dont have any CC responsibility.

When I do a 25-man I am mostly asked to be in cat form with having my tank gear on just in case any of the tank goes down.

Kitties are quite viable for raid DPS. When I'm spec'd for it (I keep flipping between resto and feral these days) and am doing pure DPS without having to pop out to off-heal or tank I usually am one of the top DPS'ers for raw damage output.

They used Taunt on your mob, which will force their threat to match your threat, and build it up from there. something like that.

so in the past few days, i've been running Steam Vaults to grind Cenarion Refuge rep. (I'm only 9,000 rep away from Earthwarden, but i digress)...
In that that time with SO many runs, i've gotten the chance to OT and that was FUN FUN FUN... I love having the freedom to pull a mob in bear, and when MT's mobs are dealt with and MT takes over on my pull, i switch out to heal, switch into kitty and claw claw claw...
Bosses were fun, too... kitty form for dps, pop out to OH, hit healer with innervate, back into kitty ftw... good stuff...

here's another question, i was OT'ing, and when MT came to my mob, he had NO problem snatching aggro away from me. What attacks do you guys use for generating threat? I have had some issues pulling aggro off enhance spec'd shammies, especially when they're using windfury...

thought? suggestions?

Is kitty form a viable DPS in raids or heroic instances?

Yes.
If anyone disagrees, they are wrong.

:P


-Annikk

i say absolutely. druids are extremely versatile in lower level instances, and less, but still versatile in higher level ones. that is a druid's GREATEST strength. :thumbsup:
about DPS, i recently went to Botanica with a 3 druids (tank, healer, me as DPS kitty) 1 hunter and a shaman decked in pvp epics. The druid tank was top DPS, me second (and mind you, i was tanking half the instance due to lack of CC), followed by hunter and shaman. so YES, feral druids can deal a heckava DPS, but that's still not our best ability. if you can't find a group/guild that appreciates that about you, then maybe your group isn't as good as it seems. :) gd luck!

about DPS, i recently went to Botanica with a 3 druids (tank, healer, me as DPS kitty) 1 hunter and a shaman decked in pvp epics. The druid tank was top DPS, me second (and mind you, i was tanking half the instance due to lack of CC), followed by hunter and shaman.

O.o
so the hunter and the shaman didnt know what they were doing^^ or they were really undergeared.
No good DD falls back behind the damage of the tank...

thats rather a surprise to find the tank topping the dps !

I'm guessing (pure guess here) that the tank was multi mob tanking the entire instance and swipping. Crits on swipe are like 300. So every 1.5 seconds with decent threat generation they could easily be doing 300+150+300 = 750 Damage. That's fairly decent dps, but for a hunter and dps shaman geared out in epics... that makes no sense.

Last night we ran heroic Sethekk Halls so I could get my swift flight form. The other 4 players run this instance all the time (1-3 times a week) in hopes of getting Anzu's mount. (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32768) On trash I constantly pulled agro off our tank (at least according to Omen who flashed me so much I thought I was going to have a seizure) who is wearing anything he wants from Kara down (including badge rewards) and I was wearing crappy Kitty gear (with buffs ~2400AP, 34% crit). Plus I saved the day a couple of times with battle rez and some off healing. And did some CC (hibernate those damn birds!).

FWIW, we had no issues with Anzu, wiped a few times on the last boss (too much group damage) otherwise it is a clean run.

That was the 2nd heroic I've run with my Cat. Never had an issue. And I think I contribute quite a bit. Though I never did see a damage meter. Never been in a raid, so I can't help you there.

keep meaning to run that for mine tlb.

never dps'ed in a 5 man cos am always tanking as a shortage of tanks on my server. although whenever grps are looking for dps/cc i reckon they would be looking for a rogue/mage or hunter over a kitty druid most of the time ?

but would hope to be able to do reasonable damage and as you say make a positive contribution to the grp as a whole if i did go in kitty form.

last time i really used kitty in a raid was in MC ! lol. used to do dps at times in there.

never dps'ed in a 5 man cos am always tanking as a shortage of tanks on my server. although whenever grps are looking for dps/cc i reckon they would be looking for a rogue/mage or hunter over a kitty druid most of the time ?Funny the opposite happens to me all the time. I built my character to tank. I often join a group (5-man) as the tank, only to be relegated to DPS when a Protection Warrior/Pally comes along and wants the spot. As such, I've only been able to tank a handful of 5-man runs. But I have DPS'd (or even healed [ramparts, sp, ub]) far more. Weird. The primary reason I decided to level a Druid after leveling my Hunter was because I had a hard time getting a spot in 5-man groups. Now I get a spot all the time, primarily as DPS. :rolleyes:

That is the one nice advantage we have as Feral tanks over other tanking classes/specs, we can do something else for the group if we are not tanking. Whereas Prot Warriors/Pallies are all but worthless in any other role.

That is the one nice advantage we have as Feral tanks over other tanking classes/specs, we can do something else for the group if we are not tanking. Whereas Prot Warriors/Pallies are all but worthless in any other role.

Prot Warris can do some nice damage even if specced prot.
With the right gear^^
Pallies...ehm...cant ;-D

Funny the opposite happens to me all the time. I built my character to tank. I often join a group (5-man) as the tank, only to be relegated to DPS when a Protection Warrior/Pally comes along and wants the spot. As such, I've only been able to tank a handful of 5-man runs. But I have DPS'd (or even healed [ramparts, sp, ub]) far more. Weird. The primary reason I decided to level a Druid after leveling my Hunter was because I had a hard time getting a spot in 5-man groups. Now I get a spot all the time, primarily as DPS. :rolleyes:

That is the one nice advantage we have as Feral tanks over other tanking classes/specs, we can do something else for the group if we are not tanking. Whereas Prot Warriors/Pallies are all but worthless in any other role.
thats a shame if you would prefer to be in the tanking role.

healers and tanks are in such short supply on my server. i get /w to tank all the time.

never healed a 5 man yet - not sure my gear is upto it.

its needs some work which i'm just starting on cos its mainly still all Stormrage ! :flipbg:

thats a shame if you would prefer to be in the tanking role.The opposite happened last night. I knew I was going to DPS, but the tank was a bit weak for the bosses (he was only lvl 64 and we were in Crypts), so I tanked those. Worked out well.

Forum post heading.

Yes!

well it looks like we are going to be using a kitty dps druid in heroics for a while.

previous holy priest will now start bringing along his druid as our mage has decided she would like to do some healing with her recently respecced holy priest.

we tried it last night for the first time in Heroic Ramparts.

we found we were a little short on CC with just a mage so the kitty druid did some OT on the bigger 4 and 5 pulls which seemed to work.

that was only our second run at heroic ramparts and despite me managing to pull the warlord first boss along with a single mob (/embaraased) we breezed him and the other 2 bosses without wiping.

kitty dps was lagging behind the mage and lock (both nicely epic geared though) but the use of the druid for OT and a battle rez a couple times made it a fun change and a fun run.

i guess as he gets better gear he will improve DPS output.

and it ended on a high note when the chest from the last boss gave up my Tree Menders Belt :thumbsup: :wavey:

I was reading the crit chance thread, and started wondering if anyone actually takes on a DPS role in kitty form...

What's the highest crit chance you've gotten in kitty? Right now I'm rocking somewhere around a 29. something something % chance to crit in kitty form, wearing kitty gear... Where's the ceiling on crit chance?



i raid as dps in kitty form, we are currently working on illidan.

my crit chance on monday night was 45% and there is not really a ceiling to is. And it is so FUN. Sure i get to combat rez people, innervate and occassionally heal as well but that is what being a good hybrid class is all about. Yes we bring dps to the raid, but we also bring alot more :thumbsup:

sounds like you have a good guild Allo that appreciates a druid is not simply about doing damage but realises you have other abilities as well that can help the raid at specific times/bosses etc

:)

kitty dps was lagging behind the mage and lock (both nicely epic geared though) but the use of the druid for OT and a battle rez a couple times made it a fun change and a fun run.

Cat druid is very gear dependent. :> With good gear, will be able to rip things up nicely..

Also skillz plays an important part in doing good cat dps. All drood should read The Druid's Grove for halp with this :>


-Annikk

Imo, kitty form in a raid is like having a boomkin/eleshammy/enhanceshammy, although i have never seen any guild (as far as high end raiding is concerned) recruit a kitty druid. I've never seen more then 1 of those classes in a 25man raid, because pure DPS classes tend to do alot better and therefore are more desirable. Hybrid classes (not including feral druid TANKS) arent really brought in for their DPS, they are brought in for the additional buffs and aurors.

I've also found that alot of the "Kitty druids" are afraid to tank, and is the main reason why they market themselves as "Kitty druids". Don't be afraid, learn how to play every aspect of a feral druid. If you want to be viable, and an asset to a raiding guild, you need to know how to both tank and DPS in kitty when needed, because a feral druids main role in a raid is to OT, not kitty DPS.

yea, i guess it's time i report back, now that i have a little experience to share...

kitty form is DEFINITELY a viable dps for raids and heroic instances.

i was in TK the other night with my guild, and doing just fine on the damage meters. We didn't get loot reaver down (LOTS of bad luck that night... mT d/c'ed on one pull, a couple healers dc'ed on a couple of other pulls... it was frustrating)

raid buffed with my adamantite weightstone (THANKS ANNIKK!) im at 47. something something % chance to crit (that was actually with mah PvP gearz on) and when my idol procced, it went up to 49. something something...

i found myself in the top 10 or 11 on the meters for trash pulls, and it actually went up to like the top 6 on loot reaver himself... they put me in the tank group, and im now im really wondering how my LotP aura would have benefitted the rogues... we were HEAVY on melee dps'ers :/

the only thing was that i definitely had to keep an eye on omen, as i very VERY close at all times to the threat our tanks were putting out and there were a couple times where i had to stop with the mangles and the shreds to let my threat drop off a little bit...

overall, it was a damn good time though!

the only thing was that i definitely had to keep an eye on omen, as i very VERY close at all times to the threat our tanks were putting out and there were a couple times where i had to stop with the mangles and the shreds to let my threat drop off a little bit.When not needed to tank, I often start with my best kitty gear on. When I do this, I find I need to make sure the tanks have lots of threat before I start-up. Otherwise, I can pull aggro during those first few moments with an untimely crit or two. Even during my second round of CP, I can pull aggro. If I get too close, I just do white damage for a few moments to let them get ahead.

I have (raid buffed), 3300AP, 40% crit and 143 hit. Most of my kitty gear isn't enchanted.

Though now that I have 2T4, my hit and crit may have dropped, but I assume the 2T4 bonus makes up for it.

there was also one moment on one of the 6 (i think? i lose track) pulls before void reaver where heals were slackin and the tank went down... i immediately pulled aggro, popped bear form and frenzied regeneration, so the healers could catch up and the tank was the only one that died...

after we finished the pull, there was a little silence in vent, then someone i couldn't recognize says: "skwid, that was PIMP!"

while im sure it wouldnt have been a wipe, some other warrior would probably have taken the mT's place eventually, but knowing that i saved at loeast ONE person's repair bill, not to mention time to re-buff, etc. etc. was pretty gratifying :)

That's the one thing I don't like about my current 2T4 setup, I'm no longer uncrittable in cat form. I always had a bit of comfort knowing that if I were to shift to bear while DPS'ing I couldn't be crit'd. Though my HP and armor are much lower.

In LK, this won't be an issue since a single talent makes us uncrittable. Though I'm still not convinced from reading blue posts that a dual role cat/bear build will be available. Seems like we may have to pick cat or bear in LK for several talents.

the latest blue post about that:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=8537784293&sid=2000&pageNo=12#220

We do want to give Ferals who want to focus on being cats some excellent melee dps. We do want bears to be end-game tanks. We want to see serious guilds with a bear MT and a death knight OT.

What held us back from that before was that the kitty could turn around and tank almost as well (and sometimes better) than the Prot dudes who abandoned any hope of competitive dps in order to be able to tank for their guild. Clearly (I hope) a class that could do rogue-level dps and warrior-level tanking with the same talent build is the kind of thing that makes other players a little miffed.

But we're reevaluating a lot of old (and some admittedly tired) decisions for Lich King. Not only will tank-spec classes be able to do a lot higher dps (not the highest in the raid mind you, but higher), but we think it's fine for a Feral to nerf their tanking ability a little in order to go for high dps, or lower their dps a little in order to be amazing tanks.

We don't think it will take a complete overhaul of the Feral tree. To be honest, I think it's a pretty fun tree. But it will definitely take some changes to the tree you see on beta today. Imagine 5-10 talent points that significantly increase your survivability but do nothing to your dps. Take those points and you're a tank. Ignore them and you're melee dps. Take a few here and there and you are as flexible as you are today. I'm not saying that is the final or even only sollution. But that implementation gets brought up quite a bit.

Yeah that's what I was talking about. It just seems a bit weird near the end "...as flexible as you are today." Well, today I don't have to give up any tanking or DPS talents to be good at both.

I guess what bothers me the most is his repeating the widely believed misconception: "Clearly (I hope) a class that could do rogue-level dps and warrior-level tanking with the same talent build is the kind of thing that makes other players a little miffed." He doesn't clearly say that he thinks that's the case in TBC, but that's how I read it. Of course it would upset players, and all the idiots on the blizzard forums love to perpetuate this myth. In lower tier progression that was certainly the case, but towards the end of TK and into BT that wasn't even close to being true. And no one seems to grasp that.

I agree. Though I don't have an T5/6 kitty. But with T4'ish gear, I can complete with rogues in total damage. And often exceed them. And crush them at burst damage.

It helps to have a bear tank so I don't have to waste energy on mangle. ;)

In LK, if I can have a single spec that let's me be a MT (thru T9) and have rogue-like DPS thru T7'ish, I'll be happy. If I have to give up some bear talents (serving as an OT) to have rogue-like DPS at T8/9, I'm fine with that as well. Today, we don't have that option.

another little update... i ran Kara wednesday night as stictly dps (which is actually a first for me) and was only behind our mage guild leader in damage... when i started popping the bloodlust brooch on cooldown i noticed the difference getting smaller and smaller between his and my total damage...

again i was in my PvP set, and relying on crits to make up for slightly lower dps. i should really see what my damage is like with my dps set on though