View Full Forums : What ways do you maintain aggro and pull?


Amerginus
10-26-2007, 12:56 PM
I would love to know what ways each of you pull in kara and OT in Gruul. Thanks.

Also what stats would you recommend for a bear tank to start in kara.

Amer

Allahanastar
10-26-2007, 01:26 PM
Welcome to our happy home.

Well pulling is extremely easy... (Feral Farie Fire FTW) But perhaps a better way of putting it is that if I don't have rage I enrage first to get a few ticks of rage going. Then I generally pull, I'll hit Maul immediately. Once the mob gets in range I slam mangle. It builds a nice bit of threat. Then I start fitting in Lacerate. Lacerate even on non bleeding mobs is a great way to build threat. You work in Mangle as well. If your tanking on multiple mobs consider using swipe, but watch where your CC is positioned so you aren't breaking CCs.

For starting KZ, I recommend doing the following:
1. Get the Heavy Clefthoof set.
2. Get your hands on a stylin hat.
3. PVP/Arena to get some nice and sexy Shoulders and possibly a helm upgrade.
4. Do all of the quest lines in Netherstorm and SMV to get specifically Umberhowl's Collar and Manimal's Synch.
5. if you have the time, get your hands on Earthwarden. Barring that, buy the Braxxis Staff of Slumber off of the AH.
6. Run Old Hillsbrad until you get the armor rings you need.
7. MOST IMPORTANTLY!!!! GET YOUR GEAR ENCHANTED!!!

Most people skip step 7 and its pretty much universal. Even then you will find that upgrades in KZ are kind of slim. There's some great stuff in there, but not anything that's way way over the top other than Moroes Pocket Watch. Of course the top end Violet Signet is really sexy too.

Amerginus
10-26-2007, 01:43 PM
My gear is pretty much on par. With what your suggesting.
I am currently at:

22526 Armor (This is all in Bear)
12174 health
419 Defence
AP 1125
Dodge 25.31%
Crit 23%
Hit: 16 (this is pretty low but thought would be ok for tank)

Everything of mine is enchanted as much as I can. Smiles.

Annikk
10-26-2007, 01:53 PM
I would love to know what ways each of you pull in kara and OT in Gruul. Thanks.

Here are a few tips which can help a lot:

1. Contrary to the mostly very good advice above, it's better to use your Enrage ability after you have pulled, not before. If a mob is hitting you while you are Enraging, you will generate enormous amounts of rage very quickly. On paper this trick doesn't look great but trust me - try it once and you'll never look back, it works a treat :>


2. How you execute the pull depends on how many mobs you are tanking, and how badly you want lots of aggro on it :P
For absolute-max efficiency in aggro generation here is a short list:

1 mob:
Charge up a starfire, immedietely followed by a moonfire. Shift to bear form, use Faerie Fire (feral), then hit enrage as the mob reaches you. Immedietely queue up a Maul, and do a Mangle.

2 mobs:
As above, but instead of Starfire, cast Cyclone on the first mob, and Moonfire on the 2nd mob. This gives you 7 seconds to get good aggro on one mob, and then the other arrives and you can give him some love too :>

3 mobs:
Start in caster form, cast a regrowth on yourself (for the healing-over-time component). Cast Cyclone on 1 mob, and try to get a moonfire on the other 2 (needs some fast clicking). Be certain to shift to bear form before the mobs start hitting you. Once in bear form, use demoralising roar and enrage, then once you have about 50 energy just keep using Swipe. If you have sufficient crit chance (which I'll come to further down the page) then you will never ever run out of rage whilst spamming Swipe.

4 mobs or more:
Start in caster form, cast a regrowth on yourself, then place a hurricane over the mobs. Try to let it tick for a second or two (but not the full duration - the mobs aren't going to conveniently stand in it for the full 8 seconds) then shift to bear form, enrage, start spamming swipe.


If you'd like some other advice about a specific pull, I know Karazhan extremely well so just describe the bit you need help with and I'll do my best :>


Also what stats would you recommend for a bear tank to start in kara.

To be a viable tank, you pretty much need to have the talent "Survival of the fittest".
Presuming you've maxed that talent out, the number 1 most important thing to get is 415 defense skill. You can check to see what your defense skill is by looking at the "Defences" pane in your character sheet.
If you have less than 415 defense, you stand a chance of being critted, and these damage spikes can prove lethal in a raid. When tanking you will take damage as a matter of course, but its easy to heal through provided there aren't too many "damage spikes".
Defense skill further reduces the chance for mobs to land a critical strike on you. Therefore 415 defense skill is an absolute must.

Once you have 415 defense skill, start stacking agility and stamina. Here's what they do, and why you need them:

Agility:
Agility is a primary stat for bear form druids. It increases your dodge chance, critical strike chance, armour (slightly), and attack power.

You want dodge because this allows you to sometimes completely avoid an attack from an enemy mob.

You want critical strike chance because the Primal Fury talent gives you 5 extra rage every time you get a critical strike. This extra rage from crits means that you can continuously spam swipe, for example, and the crits and thus rage you generate as a result of this, combined with the rage from being hit and from your own white damage, gives you essentially unlimited rage.

Armor naturally is a useful stat for bears. The amount of armor you get from agility is negligable but everything helps..

Attack power. This affects how hard you hit your target. The harder you hit it, the more rage you generate from white damage.

You can get these stats on their own, for example some items will have "Equip: Increases attack power by 50". However unless it's a truly excessive amount of attack power (as in this example) it's almost always best to go for agility, because it gives you something of everything.

How much agility? A matter of taste really, but I would continue stacking it until you have at least 30% dodge chance in bear form, after which I would recommend focusing purely on stamina.

Stamina:
1 stamina gives you 10 health in caster form, or 12 health in bear form. So 100 stamina would increase your maximum health by 1200. The bigger your pool of health, the bigger the "oops!" margin your healers have. A bear with 28,000 is a sight to behold.. :>
Having a lot of health also increases the amount you heal each time you crit (from the Improved Leader of the Pack talent). This in turn generates more aggro and makes you even tougher as bigger heals = stay alive longer.



There is a wealth of other information about tanking on these forums. I hope you find some helpful information here.. :>



-Annikk

Amerginus
10-26-2007, 02:01 PM
Thank you very much for the information you have all posted here. It has proved most valuable. I appreciate it.

Amer

Avearis
11-13-2007, 02:28 PM
For some reason I missed this post when it originally landed. I agree with the information already posted in general, but I will add that I use Enrage and Maul very sparingly. Enrage lowers your armor, putting additional strain on your healers. It's fine when you're engaging easy mobs that pose no real risk (not Kara or Gruuls), especially since you may be rage-starved in that case, but for tanking bosses and multiple mobs (when you'll have plenty of rage anyway), the armor loss is an issue.

Maul is fine in situations where you have plenty of rage, but it costs a good bit to use it, consumes a white hit that would generate rage, and doesn't generate much threat on its own. I especially avoid it at the beginning of fights when rage generation is an issue. Mangle, on the other hand, generates more rage than any other single (non-AoE) ability. It's your 41 point talent for a reason, and should be the first thing you hit the primary target with when he's in melee range.

That's my two cents, and it probably isn't worth that.

tlbj6142
11-13-2007, 02:37 PM
1 mob:
Charge up a starfire, immediately followed by a moonfire. Shift to bear form, use Faerie Fire (feral), then hit enrage as the mob reaches you. Immediately queue up a Maul, and do a Mangle.You have to have enough rage in order to press the Maul button, but it is not consumed immediately, correct? If so, what happens if I use my rage on an instant attack (Swipe, Mangle) after I have press Maul? Do I get an error, or just the Maul just silently not occur?

Avearis
11-13-2007, 02:55 PM
You have to have enough rage in order to press the Maul button, but it is not consumed immediately, correct? If so, what happens if I use my rage on an instant attack (Swipe, Mangle) after I have press Maul? Do I get an error, or just the Maul just silently not occur?

The immediate attack (Mangle, Swipe) will consume the rage, and if you don't have enough when Maul should land you will get the "Not enough rage" message. The real problem comes when Maul does land, consumes your rage, and you don't have enough for another ability when you need it. This is definitely a risk when only one mob is hitting you. That's why I don't use Maul in that situation. The rage/threat ratio is just too low.

Also, I pull with Wrath because it has a travel time, giving you ample time to shift and FFF, and to allow Furor to generate rage before the mob arrives (Furor's rage isn't quite instant).

Annikk
11-14-2007, 04:17 AM
Regarding maul; it is as Avearis says. You should be careful not to use too much rage mauling that you can't mangle, but it's pretty nice breaking a sheep with a simultaenous 1700 maul and 1900 mangle crits.. =)


Wrath is good because of the travel time, however I find I usually have plenty of time for shifting anyway if I use moonfire. The advantage of moonfire is that the dot will tick while you are in bear form, and thus is affected by the +15% aggro talent that bears get. Sometimes if there are 3 mobs to tank, I moonfire all of them whilst running away from them, only to shift to bear and turn around to tank them.


-Annikk

Abies
11-14-2007, 05:25 AM
Is usually pull with starfire and moonfire. This gives the healer more leeway to start healing early.