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stonecoldcrb
10-28-2007, 11:38 AM
Greetings all, nice site!!

Well am I at a total loss. My brother is in the Army and has just given me his accnt to play. Chadwick on Ursin server. I confess to being a Hunter and Rogue player, with my very first toon being a druid on a PvE server at WoW launch.

I am excited to play the toon, he has great gear, I cant believe it to be sure, but.......how the heck do I play him. Seriously..... Chad speced him feral but I have no clue how to attack other PvP toons and such. Peeps are asking me to raid with them and I am afraid to tell them I havent got a clue on how to play my new toon. Ughhh.... I got into a PvP with a Pally near Sent. Hill last night and got smeared.......... clear proof that even with good gear if you dont have a clue you die.

So would any of you be so kind as to give me some direction here. I woulld so greatly appreciate it. My thanks in advance.

:smoke2:

guice
10-28-2007, 11:47 AM
Sounds like you're way lost. I would recommend holding off on that character and starting a new druid, on the same account or on your account. Level that druid to, say, at least 20 or 30. Then you'll get an idea what you're doing. At level 10, you get Bear form. 20 cat form and 30 travel form.

Once you understand how a druid plays at those levels, you can easily mold those experiences to the higher level game.

I will warn you though; playing a Feral OT is hard work.you could cause a lot of wipes in a raid if you don't know what you're doing. If it's people you know, and trust, I would explain to them you're new at playing a high level druid and ask for tips. If it's a PUG, don't even group with them. You'll be scorned more than your appreciation for being in said raid in the first place.

stonecoldcrb
10-28-2007, 12:01 PM
Ok, but are there posts here, and other spots you might send me to read up on this stuff. As stated my first toon Silvertyne on the PvE server Thunderhorn was a druid, got to 35. Granted this goes back to WoW launch but I did have some exposure.

Certainly there has to be direction that I can go in to learn here. What better place to ask than from you all. Regards.

guice
10-28-2007, 12:08 PM
We're all about answering questions, but you do need to ask the right questions. From the sound of your first post, you don't even know how to auto-attack (that is the tone I got).

What specific questions are you wanting to know? How about running a bunch of quests, assuming your brother didn't complete them all (even then, there are some dailies), to get the hang of being feral.

Feral is a lot of work because you have to constantly switch between cat and bear forms and have associated armor for both those forms.

If you're familiar with how druids work, then I'd suggest just opening up your spell book and read the spell descriptions (on the feral page). There's no better teacher than those.

As for links, sorry, don't have too many of those yet. I'm still working on building up a bunch of premade guide links for druids. I learned to play druids by jumping into it, reading forums and WoWWiki (for more detailed info): www.wowwiki.com/Druid

stonecoldcrb
10-28-2007, 12:11 PM
I suppose my questions could have been more pointed, as such I will mess a bit and jump back here with some frustrations I have encountered. Thanks so far....hope I dont overload you all later. LOL.

Darkelf
10-28-2007, 04:26 PM
www.youtube.com
Check how other people play, ask some people from your guild to explain ya and group up with some druid for pvp and check how is he doing it. Pretty simple ...
Druid is hybrid class so prolly you'll need some time to figure it out... good luck

stonecoldcrb
10-28-2007, 05:15 PM
Thanks for ideas guys.

Avearis
10-28-2007, 07:48 PM
OK, OK, alright already. I've been deliberating about posting this here, because it's pretty elementary for most ferals on this site, but it will do you some good I believe. This first post will be the tank post, followed by the DPS post. I won't be able to fix all the links, but you can Thottbot all the gear for stats and sources.

BEWARE: Wall of Text is about to crit you for 99k hp...

This guide is plagiarized from a post on the old website written by Tyral (Brent), our foremost druid tank expert, who has been offline this summer but will hopefully return soon. I have amended it in places where I felt I had something to add and have added links to items for quick reference.

Background.
Well geared, skilled druids are entirely capable of being just as good as protection warriors at tanking (with a few exceptions, which we will get to later). Druids have main tanked every instance currently in the game up to Magtheridon's Lair (and probably beyond), and in many guilds are the ‘go to’ choice for new encounters. As a druid, you aren’t really better or worse than a protection warrior, just different. Warriors are highly skilled soldiers with years of training. You are a large bear. Warriors use precise weapon strikes to hold the attention of enemies. You are a large bear. Warriors posses magical weapons and armor. You are a large bear. Roar.
How druid tanks work.
Druids thrive on three things: armor, defense/dodge and health. A semi-well geared druid will easily have over 20 thousand armor, 25% dodge and 12 thousand health; amazingly geared with raid buffs are, well, a sight to behold. This means we have great physical mitigation and are good at surviving spike damage. We can become essentially uncrittable with a defense rating of 415, which is relatively easy to accomplish. We also have excellent instant aggro generation in the form of mangle, and good threat generation over time using lacerate. Swipe is great against multiple mobs; druids can hold three opponents fairly easily. Maul is good if you have plenty of rage, but is less efficient in limited rage situations than mangle or lacerate.
Our specific strengths and weaknesses
Druids can’t be disarmed or polymorphed. Hot. However, we don’t have nearly as many tools for dealing with fear as warriors do. Also, we have zero mitigation against magic whereas protection warriors have 16% in defensive stance. Although it isn’t something to worry about (for this guild anyways) druids cannot be immune to crushing blows. Ever. It can’t happen. We can get crit immune fairly easily, but crushing blows will still hit us, while warriors can prevent them with shield block. Some math has been done to indicate that because of our higher mitigation on normal hits this isn’t much of a problem, but the jury is still out.
How to get aggro
When pulling a single target with plenty of rage, it's OK to pull with Feral Faerie Fire (FFF). Charge is largely a waste of rage except as a spell interrupt, and can get your party into a heap o' trouble really fast. When you don't have much rage built up, you should pull in caster form to gain initial aggro and generate rage from Furor. You can use any ranged spell you would like, but Wrath is a good choice because it has a travel time from you to the target, allowing you to shift into bear form and cast FFF before the mob ever reaches you. If you need to engage multiple mobs, target X and cast Wrath. While it's casting, target skull and cast Moonfire or FFF and shift quickly to bear form. As soon as skull engages you, nail him with Mangle and a Lacerate. If engaging multiple mobs, make sure your next cast is Swipe then Demo Roar to keep a little aggro on your secondary targets. But remember to hit your primary target (skull) with most of your damage and threat since the rest of the party will be DPSing for all they're worth. And for God's sake, don't hit Swipe anywhere near a CC'ed mob. Pull your targets away from them.
How to keep aggro
Once initial aggro is established, the most important thing you can do to keep aggro is to hit your primary target with Mangle. It's your 41 point talent; use it. It generates more threat than any other single ability you have, and should be used whenever the cooldown is up. Afterwards, you should get a complete stack of five Lacerates up, and renew the stack before it drops off. If holding multiple mobs you should toss an occasional Swipe, but for the most part, Mangle and Lacerate should be your main aggro generators. MAUL DOES NOT GENERATE MUCH THREAT and should only be used if you have excess rage and want to get a little extra DPS.
How growl works
I see a lot of druids spamming Growl, thinking they're generating aggro. This is not how Growl works. Growl raises your aggro to the level of the highest aggro target, plus a little. IF YOU ALREADY HAVE AGGRO, GROWL DOES NOT HELP YOU!!! Growl is excellent for taking aggro from a caster who needs help, but it DOES NOT generate aggro on its own.
Getting it done
So how do you do all these wonderful things? Get geared. That’s the first step. Even more than warriors, druid tanks live and die by their gear. Here’s a set of gear to aim for to be a great pre-Khara tank.
Stylin’ Purple Hat
Mark of the Ravenguard
Heavy clefthoof set
Braxxis’ Staff of Slumber
Thoriumweave cloak
Mark of Tyranny
Umberhowl’s Collar
Verdant Gloves
Manimal's Cinch
2 Armor rings (Mok’nathal, Iron Band of the Unbreakable, etc).
Most of these items are fairly easy to get, the trickiest ones require a trip to Mechanar and Arcatraz, but many are quest rewards and Bind on Equip items.
Some higher end gear includes:
Earthwarden- 2h mace bought when Exalted with Cenarion Expedition. Well worth the effort.
Argussian Compass- the highest mitigation trinket in the game from Heroic Underbog.
Badge of Tenacity- Trinket produced from filling a Depleted Badge with Apexis Shards from Ogri'la. BoE so could be bought on the AH for $$$$.
Wastewalker Gloves- Dungeon set 3b piece that drops from Shattered Halls

What enchants and gems you add will depend on where you need to build stats, but a few tips apply. Generally, agility enchants/gems are usually better than stamina enchants/gems. +Armor enchants are NOT multiplied in bear form, making them basically useless. +Strength should be avoided. Your weapon should get +35 agility when you can afford it.

When you’re actually in an instance you should be using mangle whenever it is up and lacerate when mangle is unavailable. Just doing this should be plenty of single target threat. Multiple mobs become a little trickier, especially if attacks are not concentrated on a single target. Throwing a swipe every second or third attack should be enough to counteract threat that healers generate, but your mileage may vary. Lacerate generates about 300 bonus threat (before bear form aggro multipliers) on each application. Lacerate will also continue to generate threat after it has stacked five times, so feel free to keep using it.

That's it for now, if you have any questions feel free to ask them here. Some other excellent resources include The Druid's Grove and Emmerald's druid gear comparison. And for anyone that says druids aren't as good...maul them.

Avearis
10-28-2007, 07:48 PM
Here is my Cat DPS guide. Please bear in mind that it is elementary and very much a work in progress, so be gentle with me.

"So, you want to do DPS as a cat druid, huh? Before we go any further, let’s establish this much- you should be prepared for any and everybody to want you to tank or to heal. DPSers are generally easy to come by, whereas tanks and healers are not. So you have to be prepared to 1) compete with all the other DPSers out there for a limited number of DPS slots, 2) off-tank if necessary, 3) spot heal as needed, 4) shift between those roles quickly and effectively, and 5) offer something that the other DPSers don’t- the ability to do all those things when the situation demands. If you really want to fill a DPS slot, you have to be prepared to use ALL your abilities as a druid if you expect to be competitive in the DPS market. Oh yeah, did I mention you also have to hold your own on the DPS meter? Few group leaders will have a full appreciation of how valuable your versatility is, but all of them will want to know how you ranked on the DPS meter.

So it seems that doing cat DPS is a challenging task. It is. It’s the hardest job in the game, because you have to apply the same focus and intensity to your job that tanks and healers apply if you want to compete. And even then, you will constantly have to justify your group slot if you want to keep it. So how do you do that? Start with talents.

Talents
Books have been written about how to choose your talents. The following is a very brief synopsis of some of the more important talents for a good cat DPS build.

Balance
Nature’s Grasp/Imp NG- great for PvP, otherwise not necessary

Feral
Feral Aggression>Ferocity- an energy saving of 5 is minimal, but 15% increase to Ferocious Bite can make a difference.
Brutal Impact- ½ second longer stun for Pounce may not seem like much but is HUGE.
Thick Hide- armor never hurts, but this is essential if you plan to MT and really nice for when you OT.
Feline Swiftness- may seem trivial, but the ability to catch a mob while stealthed is important.
Feral Charge- although this isn’t a cat DPS talent, for 1 point it really enhances your utility as an OT.
Sharpened Claws->Primal Fury- absolutely.
Shredding Attacks- 9 energy is the difference between getting a Shred in after Pounce and Mangle or not.
Predatory Strikes->Heart of the Wild- yes to all.
Savage Fury- meh. So-so. Never use Claw. Rake is +/-. Mangle is the only attack this REALLY helps with.
Feral Faerie Fire- of course.
Nurturing Instinct- if you want to heal more, it’s a nice buff. Your strength should be very high in DPS gear.
Survival of the Fittest- yes.
Leader of the Pack/ILotP- LotP is not optional. ILotP really isn’t either if you want to be in a group.
Primal Tenacity- definitely.
Mangle- best talent for any feral druid. Almost defines the class.

Resto
Furor- almost essential for feral
Naturalist- the damage increase is nice, but not necessary. Good talent if you want your extra points to go toward healing.
Natural Shapeshifter- an important talent to make your mana last when you need to shift a lot.
Omen of Clarity- really helpful for virtually any type of druid. Get it.

Gear
By the time you are able to raid Karazhan and pick up the first pieces of tier 4 feral gear, you should know more than this guide is able to teach. So the list below suggests gear that can be obtained relatively easily by virtually any BC level druid. Every piece of the gear listed is a quest reward, affordably craftable, or a sub-70 instance drop. No heroic instances are required. Once you have most of this gear you should be ready to respectably fill your role in level 70 instances, early heroics and up through Karazhan.

Helm of the Claw
Natasha's Pack Collar
Expedition Scout's Epaulets
Capacitus' Cloak of Calibration
Hauberk of Karabor
Ferocious Bands
Wastewalker Gloves or Fel Leather Gloves
Socrethar's Girdle
Clefthoof Hide Leggings
Fel Leather Boots
Overseer's Signet, Acrobat's Mark of the Sha'tar, Kaylaan's Signet
Core of Ar'kelos, Bladefist's Breadth
Seal of the Dawn (when fighting Undead, eg Karazhan)
Wildcaller or Fleshling Simulation Staff
Gems
Bold Living Ruby, Don Amancio's Heart, (+8 Strength)
Delicate Living Ruby (+8 Agility)
Smooth Dawnstone (+8 crit)
Sovereign Nightseye (+4 Strength and +6 Stamina)

Some higher end gear that you should consider:
Hourglass of the Unraveller- drops off 2nd boss in Black Morass.
Wastewalker set (Dungeon set 3b)- 4/5 of this set drops in heroic instances only. It is also the DS3b for rogues, so you will probably have to roll against any rogues in your group if a set piece drops. It is generally good feral armor, but it lacks Strength and will need gems and enchants to compensate.
Arena sets- these are amazingly good for feral druids, but require some commitment to obtain. It should be noted that many of the skills and stats used in PvP are similarly used for cat DPS (as opposed to tanking, where your job is to hold threat without dying).
PvP gear- again, this gear is generally very good for feral druids but requires a commitment to obtain. If you like PvP you should supplement the list above with purchases from the PvP vendor in the Hall of Champions in Stormwind.
Rep rewards
Earthwarden is an awesome tanking mace, and a pretty good DPS mace. If you grind to Exalted with Cenarion Expedition you may end up using Earthwarden as your DPS weapon for a while.
Skyguard Silver Cross- requires Exalted with Sha'tari Skygard
Badge of Tenacity- awesome for tanking too, this BoE piece is made from a Depleted Badge, a high end drop in Blade's Edge Mountains. Both are BoE and can be bought at the AH for $$$.
Shapeshifter's Signet- requires Exalted with Lower City

Disclaimer: This is my opinion. You will certainly find other gear you like better and I encourage you to use it. I don't have all these pieces; I'm still working on many of them. Some have already been upgraded by lucky drops. I would recommend that you at least look at how any piece of feral gear compares by reviewing Emmerald's Feral Gear List. I used this list extensively in compiling my recommendations.

Attack sequences
Solo fighting- Whenever possible, attack from behind using stealth. My personal preference is to Pounce, FFF, Mangle and Shred (twice if OOC procs). This is only possible if you have talent points in Brutal Impact and Shredding Attacks (unless OOC procs). From there, build combo points to apply a finishing move. If there’s a good chance you can down the mob with a Ferocious Bite (depends on the mob’s health and armor and your attack power, but I look for about 30% or less on level 70 non-elites) go for it, but for sustained DPS, Rip is superior because it generates more damage/energy and it doesn’t drop your energy bar to zero. If the mob’s not dead, rinse and repeat.
If you need a ranged pull it’s a good idea to pull with FFF rather than shifting to caster form so you start with a full energy bar. When the mob reaches you, start with Mangle to amplify the bleed effects of Rip, Shred and Rake. Build combo points as quickly as possible and decide on your finishing move as above, rinse and repeat.

When to use Maim- This is controversial. I am personally starting to use Maim more and more, not just as a spell interrupt, but to give myself a chance to heal, Cyclone, Root, or just build energy. Bear in mind, when you shift back to cat form you should generate 40 energy (see Powershifting below), so it’s worthwhile if you have plenty of mana.

Group fights- When you have the luxury of a tank who will hold a mob’s aggro, approach from behind stealthed whenever possible. Open with Ravage (FFF then Mangle if not stealthed). Follow with FFF, Mangle, and Shred to build combo points. The same logic used above applies here when deciding whether to use Ferocious Bite or Rip. Keep in mind that if your tank is a druid, he should always have Mangle and FFF up and you should go straight to Shred. If your bear tank isn’t doing this, you may want to politely remind him how important these abilities are. If all else fails, apply them yourself.

When to use Tiger’s Fury- Until Blizzard buffs it, I would say practically never. It’s just not worth the energy cost.

Powershifting- this is the practice of replenishing energy quickly at the expense of mana, and requires the talent Furor (which you should have anyway). It consists of shifting from cat form to caster, then shifting back to cat form. When you do so, Furor grants you 40 energy instantly, but you do so at the cost of the mana required to do the shifting. While you should generally have plenty of mana when doing DPS, be careful that you don't use so much mana that you don't have enough to shift out, heal, Innervate, Root, Cyclone, Hurricane or cast the mana-intensive AoE heal Tranquility. Also remember- when you are done with those activities, you still need enough mana to shift back to cat form."

That's the end of my Cat DPS guide. I hope it's helpful to you and doesn't mislead you too much.

stonecoldcrb
10-28-2007, 10:58 PM
What can I say folks, but my sincere thanks. I have printed this out and will re-read it and have it handy while I chip away at this toon. Thank you all for the replies.

Abies
10-29-2007, 06:00 AM
Warriors are highly skilled soldiers with years of training. You are a large bear. Warriors use precise weapon strikes to hold the attention of enemies. You are a large bear. Warriors posses magical weapons and armor. You are a large bear. Roar.
Best. Description. Ever.

Funniest thing I've read all day ^^

Annikk
10-30-2007, 09:32 AM
Nice posts Avearis :>

I thought the bear guide was a particularly well-written introduction to tanking for young inexperienced druids, it also seems very factually accurate.
The cat guide also is good but imho missing some vital pieces of information (such as the str vs agi question), also there are some things I plain disagree with such as opening with Ravage when you are grouped with a tank.
Seriously though, good effort dude :>


-Annikk

Avearis
10-30-2007, 03:47 PM
Nice posts Avearis :>

I thought the bear guide was a particularly well-written introduction to tanking for young inexperienced druids, it also seems very factually accurate.
The cat guide also is good but imho missing some vital pieces of information (such as the str vs agi question), also there are some things I plain disagree with such as opening with Ravage when you are grouped with a tank.
Seriously though, good effort dude :>
-Annikk

Thanks. I'm not so sure I agree with the Ravage issue either. It seems intuitive to me that Ravage, as a stealth opener with no stun, should do a lot more damage than Mangle, Shred or Pounce, but I'm really questioning this. I find that unfortunate, because it should do a lot more damage since it requires stealth and has no benefit other than damage.

The str vs. agi issue is a moving target, and until 2.3 comes out and I'm convinced Blizzard isn't going to (#)(#)(#) around about it, I'm reluctant to complicate an already complicated class by having to alter on my advice. I personally like to stack agi in both forms- it uncomplicates things and makes gear sharing between forms better- but for now, the party line seems to be str>agi. I expect this to change after 2.3 finally comes out.

Thanks for the feedback.

Annikk
10-30-2007, 07:52 PM
Well, ravage is the biggest possible damage from a single move.. I'm not counting ferocious bite since that's a finishing move, basically ravage is the thing you use to kill mages sitting down on 20% health. It guarantees that they will have exactly 0 seconds to react, and thus will definitely die. I doubt it works out at very efficient damage per energy (unless it crits ofc.. hehe)


-Annikk