Levelling feral. Where do you put your first 11 talent points? Should you put them directly into the feral tree or put them in the resto tree for Furor/Naturalist/Omen of Clarity?

When levelling it's annoying to have to stop, heal, shift back to kitty form then wait the 10 seconds for a full energy bar. Furor reduces the wait to 6 seconds. It's also invaluable in panic situations where you have to shift around in combat.

Naturalist increases all feral damage by 10%, so that's awesome. And then there's Omen of Clarity, which as I understand is a buff that procs for a free attack every 30 seconds.

The question is, which do you pick first? Do you put your first 5 into resto for Furor then go feral till level 60 or so, then grab Naturalist and OoC? Or do you go all feral till it's almost maxxed out then pick up the appropriate resto talents?

Talents have changed a whole lot since I leveled up my Druid. I put my first 5 into Feral (the talent that reduces energy cost of Claw and stuff) and then into Furor and then up the Feral tree but with Mangle now (as the 41pt feral talent) and it's sheer awesomeness, you can't go wrong with trying to get it ASAP. and then working up the resto tree for OoC.

I agree with Trixtaaa...I'll also add that if I had it to do over again I'd get Feral Swiftness sooner than I did. Having increased movement helps make the grind easier.

*nods*

getting Feral Swiftness ASAP helps a great deal at those levels where we don't have TravelForm and all the grind/questing running about.. saves quite a bit of time and thus helps to speed up levelling even more.

The Feral Talents before that are quite solid too so hey, why not ;)

After that, personally i kept going Full Feral all the waaayy up to Mangle so i didn't need to respec but others might well suggest going down Rest. for 'Furor' (perhaps after you reach Feral Charge in Feral or time it so you get some Furor close to when you reach FC so it has more utility) up to OOC. People who like this setup often then suggest respec'ing around Lvl50 to get Mangle.

I would vote for straight to mangle, get it asap, all points in feral until you get mangle. Continue putting points in feral after that until you are level 61. Then respec to get both mangle and omen of clarity.

OOC is awesome, but there are a lot of passive talents in the feral tree that are just too important to ignore.


-Annikk

I would vote for straight to mangle, get it asap, all points in feral until you get mangle. Continue putting points in feral after that until you are level 61. Then respec to get both mangle and omen of clarity.That's not a bad idea. Although, Furor is a nice talent, you can do without it while leveling.

I did something similar with my Hunter, all BM talents until lvl 61 and then respec to pick-up the one BM talent buried in the MM tree. And, then, finish off the BM tree again.

I'd go for Feline Swiftness first, then Furor+OOC, then further down the Feral tree. Somewhere along that I'd take Nature's Grasp. OOC is very powerful while leveling, especially when fighting tough mobs (free heal).
At 50 I'd respec to get Mangle, and the levels after that again towards Furor+OOC.

Free Heal?!?! Something doesn't make sense in that statement.

Since I'm still leveling (only lvl 65), most of this is fresh in my mind. IMO, the "key" Feral Druid leveling talents are (in order of importance):
Cat form: Not a talent, but leveling with just bear form is slow and tedious at best. Making levels 10->19 some of the worst for a Feral Druid. I almost quit my Druid (which would have caused me to quit the game) during my teens. It was Blizzard's version of Gamer's Hell.
FFF: Maybe 'cause I was a hunter first, but not having a means to pull while "in form" is painful. Still don't know how folks level Paladins (no ranged attacks).
Pounce: Again, not a talent. Until I got Pounce, even with Cat form, I found the leveling experience to be a bit annoying (too much shifting out to heal yourself). Though the "auto-shift" changes in 2.3 made this slightly less of an issue. It still sucks to have to heal every 2-3 mobs. Using pounce, changes that to every 5-6 mobs (if not more).
Energy Bar Addon: Not a talent, or a skill, but I consider it a must have for Kitty DPS. Allows you to time your attacks better maximizing your DPS. And solo leveling is all about max DPS. I use the EnergyWatch v2. Make sure you configure it to display your combo points and current energy within the bar.
OoC: Free attacks. Mangle (Claw pre-Mangle) and/or Shred combined with Pounce and Shredding Attacks.
Primal Fury: Free combo points on crits means you can Rip sooner.
Mangle: Though the benefits of this don't really kick-in until you have 1000+ AP and OoC. This typically doesn't happen until you are level 60+ and have quite a bit of Outland gear.
Shredding Attacks: You can't fully use Brutal Impact in Cat form without it. I'm told once you get stupid great gear at lvl 70, this isn't necessary for solo questing. However, I find it quite useful during leveling. To get a mob down to 40-60% health before they even touch you is nice. This talent really shines once you have OoC. Sort of need to use an energy bar addon to maximize the usefulness of this talent.
Brutal Impact: Extra second is nice when you just have bear form and it helps with the Pounce->Shred->Shred or later Pounce->Mangle->Shred->Shred option of attacking. Not a deal breaker, but a nice option to have while solo leveling.
Dash: Excellent escape tool. I use it often as I hate dieing (must be my inner hunter).
Barkskin: Makes shifting out to heal so much easier and safer. You can now cast this "in form" and switch to caster at the same time, making this easier to use. Though now that you can consume potions while in form, this isn't as important. I hate shifting, and pots are just about free, so I use them often during those few tougher solo questing events.
Improved Leader of the Pack: I hate shifting out to heal, so self-healing on cirts is great while leveling. I also consider Mark of Conquest and the Infused Mushroom must have leveling trinkets for the same reason.
Leader of the Pack: Extra crit means extra combo points.
Feral Swiftness: Increased DPS and increased movement are nice, but I'm a patient player, so I could live without this one. But, then, you might as well pick it up on the way to other "better" talents.
Furor: More of a PvP talent. Helps with pulls while tanking. And raid kitty DPS. Has limited use while solo leveling (primarily for those quest in which you have to use something to summon the mob). But take it on your way to OoC.


I know some of you will disagree with those, but those are my thoughts.

"Free Heal" means that you can use your OOC procs to heal yourself without needing mana. That helps to conserve mana which allows you to fight longer and heal more often.

Can't say I've ever used OoC to heal myself. I always us it for another Shred/Mangle. To use it to heal yourself, you'd have to cast barkskin first, which (I think) would eat your OoC proc, right? Or are you talking about instance PvE (where you don't have agro)? I must be missing something. Is this for PvP?

No, barkskin doesn't eat it. There are several abilities that do not use up your OOC, Tiger's Furor being another example.

What I mean is to use it while leveling. You have to kill some elite mob for a quest and find no one to help you. But you are a tough Feral and just go Bear Form to do it on your own. A few times in the fight you need a heal. Including the mana cost of shapeshifting that can eat your limited mana pool pretty quickly (especially at lower levels). OOC helps with that and allows you to kill mobs you couldn't otherwise.
It is just an example for the uses of OOC beyond simply increasing your DPS.

No, barkskin doesn't eat it. There are several abilities that do not use up your OOC, Tiger's Furor being another example.Didn't realize that. Now I can see how it could be used for self-healing.

Didn't realize that. Now I can see how it could be used for self-healing. I still think it's ridiculous to burn a free mangle in favor of a free heal. I can imagine a situation where a heal would be better than a free attack. But I can also envision scenarios where you're DPS and not taking much damage, and a free mangle would be great.

There are situations for both uses. Especially when we are talking about leveling up in level ranges where you have no Mangle.

Maybe move this into the Feral sub-section?

I say get the feral resto talents, then respec at 50 for 1 gold to get mangle. Going straight for mangle doesn't seem wise to me, when you'll be taking a lot fluff talents to get to mangle, instead of useful talents that will help you lvl to 50 faster.

Besides, OoC and maybe Naturalist (+10% DPS [white only???]), what else would you take from the Resto tree? Furor really isn't a leveling talent.

Whereas FFF (pulling), Primal Fury (free combo points), Savage Fury and Improved Leader of the Pack are great pre-mangle leveling talents. I would include Shredding Attacks in that list as well, but I seem to be in the vocal minority WRT using it while leveling.

Either way (Mangle --> OoC [no respec] or OoC --> Mangle [respec at lvl 50]) would work, probably isn't much a difference. Though most folks (no me so much) would not want to postpone Feral Swiftness until lvl 31-32.

But, then, Mangle isn't all that great until you have a good set of Outland-like gear. Which isn't likely to happen until you are 60-61 (unless you have help). So, maybe OoC --> Mangle (without a respect at lvl 50) is a better way to go assuming you can live without FS for 10 more levels.

Furor really isn't a leveling talent. I disagree. Method:

-Cat form.
-Target mob.
-Claw claw claw.
-Shift to caster, heal.
-Shift to cat. Zomg 40 energy.
-Repeat.

Alternately:

-Bear form.
-Target mob.
-Maul maul maul.
-Shift to caster, heal.
-Shift to bear. Zomg 10 rage.
-Repeat.

It cuts the downtime when grinding. Hence it is a viable levelling talent.

It also allows you to shift from cat into bear for an instant Bash - our only spell interrupt. Which is important for cats and casters alike.

Ooops! See below.

The number times I have depended on Furor, while solo leveling, are so few I don't consider it a leveling talent. About the only time it is needed (?) is for those few quests in which you have to use/activate some item in caster form in order to spawn the mob. Or get attacked when mining ("I think I can mine this node without drawing agro from that nearby mob").

I can count the number of times I have shifted out to heal, during combat, on one hand. It is probably the same number of times I have used bear form, while leveling, after obtaining Cat form. And with the recent changes in 2.3 that allow you to drink potions while in form (via a macro), the need is even less of an issue. At least for me, potions seem to gather dust while questing, so using them for the few times you need an in-combat heal (while solo leveling) seems like a great way to go.

The only time I depend on Furor is to generate a bit of initial rage while tanking.It also allows you to shift from cat into bear for an instant Bash - our only spell interrupt. Which is important for cats and casters alike.For solo leveling? Seems more like a PvP use. Or possibly for instance PvE.

We seem to level differently. I have to heal more often, because I do all quests. And there are more than 5 elite-quests, where you have to heal yourself when fighting the elite mob.

Maybe you don't do those quests and focus more on grinding.

For solo leveling? Seems more like a PvP use. Or possibly for instance PvE. The ability to use Bash at a moment's notice is a force-multiplier. (I absolutely hate mobs who self-heal.) The ability to initiate every combat encounter with Feral Charge is also a force-multiplier. (Makes a bear more like a warrior.) There's also power-shifting: if you have zero rage or energy, trade some mana you weren't using anyway to shift out then back for what is essentially free rage or energy.

We seem to level differently. I have to heal more often, because I do all quests. And there are more than 5 elite-quests, where you have to heal yourself when fighting the elite mob.As I'm currently leveling (only 66), I can say there is no point doing elite (now called group) quests in the old world. Rewards typically suck. Take too much time. And just not worth the trouble. You get more XP doing some other quest.

Now in the Outlands, I do every quest in a zone. But, which I'm sure it true for most folks, finding help to do group quests in the Outlands is 1000% easier than in the old world content. Sure, I tackle as many group[2] type quests as I can do alone, but group[3+], typically require a "group" unless there is some odd trick in completing it with fewer members.

I tried grinding entire level once (lvl 33-34??) with my hunter and it was just too boring. Can't imagine doing with my druid, as I find Druid combat more tedious than hunter combat.

The ability to use Bash at a moment's notice is a force-multiplier. (I absolutely hate mobs who self-heal.) The ability to initiate every combat encounter with Feral Charge is also a force-multiplier. (Makes a bear more like a warrior.) There's also power-shifting: if you have zero rage or energy, trade some mana you weren't using anyway to shift out then back for what is essentially free rage or energy.I understand how Furor can be used, but I just don't find it all that useful for solo leveling.

Yeah tlbj, that explains our differences of opinion ^^

I like doing the elite quests. Not because they are such a good source of XP, but because they are a challenge to do solo. Of course it slows you down when leveling, but I don't care about that. I have characters on 70, so I do not have to hurry leveling my twinks.

And elite quests in the Outlands usually are easier to solo, because the mobs there can be stunned and rooted (most pre-BC elites cannot).

I understand how Furor can be used, but I just don't find it all that useful for solo leveling. How is this possible. Solo levelling means you're going from mob to mob. How is the ability to Feral Charge from mob to mob after healing yourself "not useful for solo levelling."

Because why would I want to attack a mob without a full energy bar? If I'm close enough to charge, I'm willing to waste the extra 2-3 seconds walking over to the mob (to allow my energy bar to fill), or pull with FFF which also allows my energy bar to fill (assuming non-caster/hunter type mob). While solo leveling, attacking a mob without a full energy bar is very rare (at least for me). I'd rather start will a full bar than let the mob beat on me while I wait for energy to finish it off (resulting in more time spent shifting out to heal). So, maybe that's my trade off. Walk over to a mob, or pull with FFF, rather than sprinting to a mob only having to shift out afterwards to heal. In my book, the less shifting I have to do while questing the better, even with the 2.3 changes.

A levelling feral druid should get all the feral love first imho. The stuff in the resto tree should come later, there is just too much essential stuff in feral to ignore in the earlier levels. Ergo, furor is a relatively weak levelling talent.


-Annikk