View Full Forums : Arena woes...


tlbj6142
02-12-2008, 10:06 AM
Let me start off first by telling you that I had 2 PvP kills prior to last night. I'm sure I had nothing to do with either of their deaths, I just happened to be in a group while grinding out my tokens for the Mark of Conquest trinket.

So, we formed a 5v5 team last night, just to waste some time and maybe earn a purple over the next couple of months.

I just suck. I have no fricken clue what to do. In most matches, I did maybe 500-1.5K total damage (no heals outside of ImpLotP).

So, please give me 1-2 easy "moves" to help me so I don't feel completely useless. Any more than that and I'm sure my head will explode.

Also, how do you target other players? No one stands still long enough to figure out who is what class, etc. My buddies (at least 2 are hardcore PvP) tell me to use an "assist", but that doesn't help me find the person that I've targeted. It is not like there is a beam of light shining down on the player you have selected. You still have to find them in the sea of red.

I felt so worthless and confused, I actually cried a bit after it was all over. I know some folks think it is fun, but I can't see how.

I'm not sure I can even make it thru 10 matches a week, if this continues. I don't care about losing, I just want to feel like I did something...

Archiee
02-12-2008, 10:27 AM
An awsome arena mod like 'proximo' should help you with targeting enemys. It shows you name, class, HP, mana, and even spec.

Birdbear
02-12-2008, 10:32 AM
First off, i know NOTHING about playing a feral druid, let alone one in arena's. However i have experienced what you are saying in terms of being overwhelmed in 5v5's. The first arena i went into with my old warlock was just madness. I think i got 1 shadowfurry, a couple dots and a fear or two the entire match. You will get used to it the more you do i promise. I was all ready to compare 5v5's to arena's but remembered that you havent done a lot of pvp. AV (40vs40 on a huge map) is also overwhelming at first, but again the more you do, the more you understand/appreciate/etc it.
I highly suggest using assist, and having someone else call out targets for you at first. Take the person you are assisting and make a macro (/assist personsname). I like assisting our melee dps'ers as they are physically close to their target which will make it easier for you to find them ("in the sea of red"). At first you will just be trying to help bring down your assist target, thats your job (depending on group make up). When you are comfortable with that, branch out a little. You dont want to get tunnel vision (especially with the wide array of CC you have at your disposal). You should look for threats on the other team and neutralize them (be it the second healer who is keeping your assist target alive, or the mage who just AP+trinketed and is waiting to 3 shot your healer). Cyclone, feral charge, bash, roots, etc.
There are lots of addon's that will show you the class of your target beside their portrait, that might help you out a little there too.

Summary of the wall of text:
Assist melee if possible, dont try to do too much, and dont worry about the numbers you do.

Dont get discouraged. You WILL lose and it will take you time to get used to what feels like an entirely new concept, but when things start clicking, you'll see what all the hype is about. Remember the first 40 man raid you did!? Same thing.

tlbj6142
02-12-2008, 10:56 AM
So, I'll assist (click on target of party member). That's easy. In fact I started every battle like that. But finding the targeted player was a nightmare, so I'd end up just attacking whatever was nearby. I just can't see thru all of the on-screen clutter. Why the heck does everyone have a flag stapled to their back? Seems sort of pointless and adds to the clutter.

Maybe I just need to stick to the back of my assist and follow them around and hope they find the target. Wait, I just realized I'm basically the only melee class in our group. Though we do have a shammy (I think they do some melee). So, following someone to the target ain't gonna work, 'cause they don't have to run down the target like I do.

Hmmmm.... Now this is making more sense.

Birdbear
02-12-2008, 11:07 AM
Yeah if you are the only melee it makes it much harder to get a target i'll give you that. You should try to pick a target right out of the gate or find your dps target asap. Stealth and take your time getting to them (use dash or feral charge to catch up to them if they get away from you). It might benifit you to have a rogue or warrior on your team until you get the hang of arena's too (not sure how hardcore you are going or what you want to have for a team make up or if you are just trying to understand the arena's more).
Also the flags on the back is dumb i agree, but it does help you identify which <insert class that all look similar here> (shadow priest, non-resto druid, etc) is on your team and which is the enemy quickly

tlbj6142
02-12-2008, 11:13 AM
Also the flags on the back is dumb i agree, but it does help you identify which <insert class that all look similar here> (shadow priest, non-resto druid, etc) is on your team and which is the enemy quicklyAre they different colors? I thought they were all that mustard yellow green color. Guess I didn't notice that either.

kmpirish
02-12-2008, 01:37 PM
Something I plan to use in my next match is focus target (http://www.wowwiki.com/Focus_target). Focus target basically saves a particular target in memory for reference later on. There is a key binding for setting the focus (I used the + sign on my number pad).

I wrote a simple macro (/target focus) and put the button on my action bar right next to cyclone - that way no matter who I'm attacking or healing, I can click a button and re-target my focus easily for more crowd control goodness.

I've only done 2v2 and 3v3, but we nonetheless lost A LOT in the beginning. It takes time to learn to work together as a team and to learn how best to take down different teams (e.g. the strategy for taking down a warrior/pally is much different than two warlocks). That being said, your first victory will be a very sweet one (my hands were shaking at the end of my first arena win. My partner and the opposing warrior killed each other at the same time and it was me vs. a resto pally and it took me 8 minutes to kill him.)

That being said, there are some good basics that've already been mentioned in this thread like keeping the opposing healer(s) occupied. If it's one thing I've learned recently it's that you don't necessarily have to kill a healer to prevent them from doing their job (though it is nice :) ) War Stomp, Cyclone, Feral Charge, Bash, Maim and Pounce are all good ways to make any caster's life hell.

I've also watched this PvP video (http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=46101) and learned a lot - the guy does a commentary for it so you can really learn from what he does.

I can't really offer advice on 5v5s specifically...but keep playing. With each match, you learn more.

Annikk
02-26-2008, 12:11 PM
Here's a nice easy move to use at the start of an arena.

Start from stealth. Find whichever enemy you suspect will be the healer. When the fighting starts, pounce them, then immedietely cyclone them.

Now look around. If you see an enemy rogue or warrior, try entangling them. If you see your friend getting badly beaten, put some HoTs on him.

Be ready to cyclone the healer a second time. Now it's time to start looking for very injured enemies. If you've spotted one, run over in cat form and try to finish him with some quick burst damage.




Here's another idea; if things are going badly for your team and everyone is taking a lot of damage, sometimes it's a good idea to just shift to caster form, barkskin, and tranquility.
This can often totally change the course of a battle. The enemy will most likely see you doing this and will try to gank you immedietely, so be ready to shift to bear form if you see lots of enemies running towards you.




For 5v5, the key is focusing your party's damage on a single target. Likewise, it's important to know how to get away if you are the focus of the enemy team's damage.
Bear form is handy here, and feral charge can be used to get away even if you are slowed.
If you have loads of enemies on you, don't panic and try to run away very slowly. Hit them. They are trying to make you panic. If your healers are worth their salt, and the rest of your team is good enough at CC'ing, you won't die (or at least not quickly). Pick a target like a rogue or a shaman and use some of that rage they are giving you :>


-Annikk

tlbj6142
02-26-2008, 01:27 PM
We finished our third week last night. It was gawd awful! The 2nd week we did fine. Now that I have played a bit more, I think the primary issues are...

1) Not focusing on a target. This never happens. Ever.
2) Only part of the team is in vent at the time. This could be the reason why #1 doesn't happen.

As a result, we end up playing 1 healer and 4 players doing 1v1. This results in mayhem and we lose.

When we do win it is because we have quickly eliminated 1 or 2 of their players (mostly by dumb luck).

Falloraan
02-26-2008, 02:20 PM
For 5v5, the key is focusing your party's damage on a single target.
This is easily the best advice you can get for 5v5. Every single person on your team has to be aware of and follow this strategy. You cannot spread out your dps and be successful.

Magellan19
02-26-2008, 03:09 PM
I just suck. I have no fricken clue what to do.

So, please give me 1-2 easy "moves" to help me so I don't feel completely useless. Any more than that and I'm sure my head will explode.

I'm not sure I can even make it thru 10 matches a week, ...

OK - I know I am Alliance, but tlbj6142, I howled with laughter the entire time I read this post. Your brutal honesty about your arena feelings were just too perfect not to respond.

I joined a 5v5 team as healer for my Guild's team. They really needed a healer, and I didn't want to do it. In fact, I joined the team kicking and screaming and I absolutely hated it at first, and I made sure they knew it. :uptosomet I felt like a flaming idiot and had no idea whatsoever what I was doing.

We lost SO many matches - badly - and I just wanted to get my (3) games over and done with, whatever the humiliation. I was so frustrated, I couldn't have cared less about arena points.

Then something miraculous happened, we started winning. A lot.

Two things:

PvP Gear - Spend your points when you can.

Team Practice - You will learn (and benefit) from your team members' methods of arena play.

Pretty soon it's going to take longer for the opposing team to take you down. You will notice that improvement week by week.

That said, I still find it difficult to target opponents amidst the "sea of blood" :wink:

nit666
03-10-2008, 08:07 PM
First time I did arena I felt useless as well, but if you want a couple of simple tips I would offer the following. It seems from your post that you are feral which isn't an ideal spec but you need to understand your strengths.

First tip is that you have all the skills necessary to lock down a healer for a long time. this is important and will allow the DPS on your team to do it's work. In fact if you pounce one healer and then cyclone the backup healer, then feral charge the first healer again you might give enough time for your team to get a kill at the start. You need to let your team know that this is your role however.

Second tip is to use your bear form to survive. As soon as you start taking damage get into bear and 'tank'. This will do one of two things. Either you attackers will realize that they are fighing a very hard to kill bear and move to something more squishy (a rare case), or they will continue to fight you while getting beat upon by your teammates. If the first case happens, just get back in cat and give them hell, if the second case happens, grin and 'bear' it while you have to.

skwidrific
03-18-2008, 04:43 PM
I'd also like to add that starting arenas with a 5v5 team is like jumping into the deep end right away... I started my arena experience with a 3v3 team, and started having fun immediately... My favorite team at the moment is actually my 2v2 with a warrior and a hunter... 2v2 changes drastically depending on who your team mate is.

i love pwning squishes with melee, but mages tend to give the warrior and i fits... the hunter, on the other hand pew pews mages down with ease, and tends to get wtfpwned by rogues (he's MM) but still and all, you can learn a LOT about arena and other classes by playing 2v2 and 3v3 teams. YES, you get less points than with 5v5, but not THAT many less, and sometimes more, depending on your ratings... let us kow how that works out for you if you try it

tlbj6142
03-18-2008, 05:02 PM
Update: We can't seem to get our 5v5 together very often. So, I started a 2v2 with a Pally (some odd hybrid build). We won 4 out of 10 last night. Should have won 5-6. It is so much easier to coordinate with just 2.

Frankly, I don't care if I ever win more than 4 games a night. I do wish the queue times were shorter. Last night they were 10-12 minutes! Took us from 8:45pm to 11pm to compete 10 matches! Too bad you can't join BG while you wait. FWIW, I did complete the first 2-3 steps of my SFF quest chain!

Vika
03-24-2008, 02:29 PM
Well I completely sympathize and am in the same boat currently. Started our first Arena team ever. A 3v3 consitituting a SL/SL Lock (first arena ever), Feral Druid (me, first arena ever), and a Resto Shammy (had arena experience as DPS).

We went 0-13. It wasn't close. Except once. We almost killed one. But we didn't. And we realized that it was only because a rogue was afk the whole match. If that doesn't want to make you reroll, or at least respec Resto or Boomkin, I don't know what will.

Demoralized and puzzled, the SL/SL Lock and I tried 2v2 later that week. We did our 10 matches and still didn't win one. Often we did less damage combined then any one of our opponents.

In 2v2 we faced all DPS teams. Rogue - Hunter / Rogue - Frost Mage / Warlock - Rogue / etc. etc. All fights started with me stealthed, the Lock with a Fel Hound, and there was almost always a rogue jumping the Lock. I had tons of trouble targetting. I rely on Tab targetting too much but it is so hard to target in a hurry. There's a Warlock, a Warlocks pet, a Mage, a water elemental, and a rogue!

Anyway, I'm going to give Proximo a whirl now but from what I understand it still requires you to target someone once.

I would be real interested in any tips or advice on how to survive long enough against these DPS teams given the group composition. Once we are holding our own in 2v2, I feel we can add a healer for 3v3 and have a better chance.

That first win is going to be like downing Vael the first time! LOL