View Full Forums : Badge spending Dilemma - 1 item or multi ?


Kheldar
05-08-2008, 10:13 AM
after many many heroics i now have 105 badges.

as i've said before i dont raid and am in a very small guild but know people in various other bigger ones. RL only allows me to do some 5 man heroics now and then.

been saving up for either the new 2.4 Tameless Breeches http://thottbot.com/i34910 or the Embrace of Everlasting Prowess http://thottbot.com/i34906

These would replace an item of heavy clefhoof. It will mean though that i have an issue with being uncrtiabble and will need to change something else around or gem for defence or enchant for it....

I've read its best to gem for agi / stam and aim for def on items or via enchants ?

However this would be just replacing one item.....and its got me wondering that as badges to me are hard to come by should i perhaps spend them on 2/3 other items?

ie i could make good use of :

Bands of the Swift Paw 35 badges http://thottbot.com/i33580 - to replace umberhowl's collar.

Idol of Terror 20 badges http://thottbot.com/i33509

Ring of Unyielding Force 25 badges http://thottbot.com/i29384

Not to mention the more expensive

Ring of the Stalwart Protector 60 badges http://thottbot.com/i34888


I've got a nice epic crafted belt (gems to be decided based on what i spend badges on!) and boots so dont need to worry about them. I could also look to upgrade Helm or Shoulders sometime....

Armoury link is :http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bronze%20Dragonflight&n=Kheldar


Anyone recommend a way forward given i am not a raider but do enjoy 5 man heroics with people i know as often per week as RL allows.

Afterall this time to amass 100 badges i'm stuck as to what to choose :eek:

tlbj6142
05-08-2008, 10:36 AM
I'm in the same situation (though I don't have that many badges yet). 5-mans and maybe once a month a partial kara run.

First get the Idol of Terror. I can't believe you have waited this long. It should be the first thing a bear (not bad for kitty either) buys once they get 20 badges.

I'd get the Swift Paw wrists next, as they are nearly the best wrists in the game.

After that, it is more about maintaining +def/+res. Don't forget about the Keeper of Time, Scryers/Aldor and SSO head/shoulder enchants as they can help. I also think there is now a +def enchant for wrists from SSO?!?!?

Kheldar
05-08-2008, 11:04 AM
so you think go for the smaller stuff fisrt tlbj ?

is the idol that good ?

yeah am exalted with Shattered Sun so will check on that and there is a new chest +def enchant around now iirc ? plus the one for some +def on braces ?

tlbj6142
05-08-2008, 11:38 AM
so you think go for the smaller stuff fisrt tlbj ?I don't have that many badges, so I can't buy the chest and legs you listed. Plus by buying the wrists you have "the best" which means you can forget out that slot. Sort of like your belt.

Honestly I haven't looked that closely at the chest, legs and rings yet. Both the chest and legs are huge upgrades from the Heavy Clefthoof stuff, but without +def means you have to find it elsewhere (2 piece Arena set [Shoulders and Gloves???] give quite a bit of +res). I do plan to get the wrists and then get the SSO exalted neck (rather than the brooch of deftness). After that, I guess it will depend on how many badges I get. Unfortunately, it looks like I need to PvP (arenas and BGs) for shoulder and feet upgrades. I hate PvP.is the idol that good ?It is the best tanking idol in the game. Well, for mitigation. Others might be a bit nicer for single target threat, but threat typically isn't an issue on single targets. And it is quite nice for kitty dps (especially in PvP).

Kheldar
05-08-2008, 12:53 PM
yeah on reflection i am thinking that i have saved up the 100 badges i should get the chest or legs.

as i might not be able to save them up again !

anyone got views on which of either the chest or legs would be the best to choose as an upgrade for the relevant Clefthoof ?

I do have the SSO exalted necklace - the resolve one but find the loss of defense atm stops me using it.

I dont pvp so will not be getting the 2 piece arena set. And like you i detest pvp so its not an option. you should look out for the crafted boots i have..i picked up the recipe for under 200g and farmed the mats to make them. well worth it imho.

Shoulders are the one item i dont know where a better upgrade will come from....

hmm i better look at the idol again. it did not look that good and you're sure of how often it will proc.

tlbj6142
05-08-2008, 03:42 PM
yeah on reflection i am thinking that i have saved up the 100 badges i should get the chest or legs.Understood. But without the PvP stuff, isn't becoming uncrittable is going to be difficult? I guess that was part of your original post.you should look out for the crafted boots i have..i picked up the recipe for under 200g and farmed the mats to make them. well worth it imho.I'm not a LW so I can't use them as they are BoP not BoE. The next best option for me is a 60 badge item or a couple of minor upgrades from Kara or some heroic somewhere.Shoulders are the one item i dont know where a better upgrade will come from....I think the best shoulders outside of 25-mans and PvP are the ones that drop in hBF, Mantle of Shadowy Embrace (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32080). What is sad is that once again Feral's get screwed on shoulders, where as Balance and Resto have a Badge item for shoulders.

Kyane
05-08-2008, 03:49 PM
The idol is awesome, with a very high proc rate ( around 85% ) and add in the cooldown of Mangle and you'll be seeing the buff A LOT.

I'm pretty much in agreement with tlbj about the order of purchases.

Annikk
05-08-2008, 05:18 PM
The Idol of Terror (+65 agility on mangle, 85% chance) has an internal 10 second cooldown. If you miss or your mangle is dodged or parried, the cooldown is still triggered but you do not get the buff.

I've been using the trinket since it first came on sale several months ago. Whilst tanking I find the buff is up about 40% of the time. It is still the best idol for tanking though (apart from a very few highly specialised-to-the-point-of-being-theoretical situations).


-Annikk

Kheldar
05-09-2008, 03:49 AM
thanks for the help and advice all.

tlbj : yes my dilemma revolves around getting a very nice epic upgrade to my chest or legs but losing a ton of def and how i replace it.....enchants ? gems ?

ahha, thats a shame if you're not a LW cos there are some nice items that are for some reason BoP on making :(

i'll take a look at that hBF shoulder drop. its not somehwere i ever seem to go to....

ok now for the 'sorry i'm thick question but please bear with me'........

i'd read tons od stuff on resilience and defence skill and defence rating....what i am still unclear on for my current calculations with gear changes is :

how many resilience to make 1% towards uncrittable ? is it a figure of 39.4 i've seen ?

and how many defence rating and how many defence skill are needed to give 1% towards uncrittable ?

i also understand that there are pros / cons to each of the above and generally speaking +res seems to be considered more of a pvp stat as +def also helps towards other stats.

if i can properly understand this i can then look at how i get my 2.6% needed. as i've currently got 4 epic gems in the bank ready to be used in the appropriate gear :

+5str +4res
+6crit +5dodge
+6sta +5res
+5def +4dodge

thanks for your patience for an old and slowing down bear !

illuzion
05-09-2008, 12:16 PM
Yeah, I have the same problem with the Sunwell badge gear upgrade. I too also still cling to the heavy clefthoof chest and legs. The only other upgrades that I see besides the Sunwell is the Malorne set from Mag and Gruul's, besides pvp. Right now my def is 434, but replacing the legs i lose 37 def. I have the +12 on the bracers, and i might be able to move some sockets to get another +8 def, giving me 405 def, but are there any other def enchants that i can get? Oh I also have the CoT head enchant.

Allahanastar
05-09-2008, 01:43 PM
There is a Steelweave enchant you can get on cloaks now that I think is 12 Defense. The only upgrade I really wanted from the Sunwell stuff was my dps staff. That should last me till almost lvl 80. I figure the armor and stuff is a nice to have, but not a need. Hell with the way stuff goes the Sunwell gear will probably be rep reward stuff you can buy at honored after the next expansion.

tlbj6142
05-09-2008, 01:46 PM
if i can properly understand this i can then look at how i get my 2.6% needed. as i've currently got 4 epic gems in the bank ready to be used in the appropriate gear Might want to take a look at Rawr (http://druid.wikispaces.com/Rawr), it is a Windows .NET Framework application that allows you to insert your toon (from amory or by hand) and swap gear, enchants and gems in/out so you can see the effect on the changes. It is a great way to see "what it takes" to be uncritable if I swap my Heavy Clefthoof chest for this uber badge chest.

kalbear
05-09-2008, 01:59 PM
Okay.

First off, on which of the two you should get: the Tameless Breeches are as good as T6 legs. The Embrace is about as good as T5 and not that much better than T4. Get the Breeches if you're going for a big-ticket item.

That being said...

You should get multiple items. You will get a bigger boost to your character. You should get the Idol of Terror. It will never be replaced. You should get the Ring of Stalwart Determination. It will never be replaced.

And you should pvp and get the vindicator's dragonhide bracers. Don't go for the Band of the Swift Paw yet; you need the resilience from the bracers to stay crit immune. After that, I'd get Slikk's Cloak of Placation. If you need more to stay crit immune, enchant your bracers, chest and cloak with defense.

Also remember that your character sheet lists defense SKILL, not rating, and that 2.6 defense rating is equal to 1 skill. So if you lose 37 defense rating you're only losing about 14 defense skill. If you were at 437 before, you'd be at 423 now. You can always unequip your gear to test this. You absolutely need to wean yourself off the clefthoof gear as soon as you can; while it's great for starting it doesn't have the threat or the avoidance you'll need for later.

Falloraan
05-09-2008, 04:12 PM
That being said...

You should get multiple items. You will get a bigger boost to your character.
/agree

Kheldar
05-09-2008, 04:32 PM
Okay.
And you should pvp and get the vindicator's dragonhide bracers.

Also remember that your character sheet lists defense SKILL, not rating, and that 2.6 defense rating is equal to 1 skill. So if you lose 37 defense rating you're only losing about 14 defense skill. If you were at 437 before, you'd be at 423 now. You can always unequip your gear to test this. You absolutely need to wean yourself off the clefthoof gear as soon as you can; while it's great for starting it doesn't have the threat or the avoidance you'll need for later.

not a chance of pvping Kal i detest it.


and remember when you say 'need for later' i guess you mean for tanking in 10 and 25 mans which i will not be doing.

my enjoyment of the game is from 5 man heroics with some people i know.

RL does not and will not ever mean i raid again 'properly'. my raid days ended with 40 mans pre-BC.

so my choices are based on not getting tons of badges and getting something really good for them.

i see what you and everyone is saying about multiple items. and i'm very torn between getting the 'big' item now as i have saved up or buy some small ones and then aiming to save up the big amount again....

thanks for all of you who've taken the time to reply. much appreciated :grin:

tlbj6142
05-09-2008, 04:47 PM
not a chance of pvping Kal i detest it.I hated it for a very, very long time. But now that I see it is free guaranteed loot, I do it from time to time. The key is learning to just not care how "well" you do (that was the toughest part for me). So, I just run around mashing mangle. If I die, who cares. If we lose the BG, who cares. If we lose the Arena match, who cares. I use to get all stressed out about it, but now I find it relaxing. Mash mangle, run around, die. Repeat. Sort of like the "old days" when I was leveling (with more dieing of course...:wink: ). Although last night in "Eye" I was tops in killing blows in 2 out of 3 runs (we lost all three).

In the end, I still get my purple item. Which, of course, is the biggest problem with PvP, you can suck and still get really good gear. You might get it faster if you are good, but you still get it. In PvE, if you suck as a tank, you don't get gear. You just get lonely.:o At least now with Arena's you have to at least find 1 other person to play with. In the old BG days, you could do it all solo (again, just like leveling).

kalbear
05-09-2008, 05:03 PM
It's not just for 10/25 mans; it's for harder heroics. Doing Durnhold requires a better set of gear than SP does, and doing heroic MrT requires even better than that.

If you don't want to do PvP, that's fine. But it's going to be a while. That being said, that makes me think you should do multiple items even more. The ring + the cloak + the idol will significantly increase your armor, stamina, and avoidance while improving some of your mitigation - moreso than the tameless breeches will.

It's up to you in terms of which you get and what will make you feel better. If you aren't going to do pvp ever, the Band of the Swift Paw is also a great investment as nothing better will ever drop.

Claritondeus
05-09-2008, 06:14 PM
pvp is fun.

AV is tons of honor, and its basically PvE.

Kheldar
05-10-2008, 12:23 PM
lol tlbj - thats exactly why i detest blizz introducing pvp. easy epics.

yeah i hear what you're saying Kal - just not sure i'll ever save up 100 badges again so wondering i just 'go for it' and get the breeches then prioritise after that with getting :

idol
cloak/ring/wrists


oh god i mite have to look at pvp and see which bit of will annoy me the least then :( wot a sad day to even be contemplating pvp for easy-ish epics.

kalbear
05-12-2008, 12:53 PM
The thing is - it's not just about 'easy' epics for a druid tank. It's not that you're getting purples. There are a ton of badge pieces that are better than the similar pvp gear.

The issue is that because of the totally screwed-up way they've itemized bear gear, resilience ends up being much more valuable. And the best place to get resilience is...pvp. So it's not so much that you're getting free epics as it is getting epics that are best for your class and spec.

Kheldar
05-13-2008, 02:50 AM
well i bought the Idol last nite and it does seem to proc a lot !

i tried it out in kitty mainly as was only doing some daily's not a 5 man and it would proc twice in the same fight against the same mob !

adds quite a bit of dodge and crit chance when it procs :)

tlbj6142
05-13-2008, 09:45 AM
i tried it out in kitty mainly as was only doing some daily's not a 5 man It is nice. It is the perfect questing/trash idol for cats. I, too, am surprised at how often it procs. And that it will often proc twice on the same mob. Which goes against the comments on wowhead about it having an internal cooldown of 45s. As there aren't too many solo fights in which I'm engaged for 45s.

kalbear
05-13-2008, 12:47 PM
It absolutely doesn't have an internal cooldown of 45 seconds.

It's great for tanking too, especially since you'll be mangling every 6 seconds. Not as good for kitty raid dps, but it still isn't bad in a pinch.

tlbj6142
05-13-2008, 01:31 PM
It absolutely doesn't have an internal cooldown of 45 seconds.I must have been thinking of another proc device (maybe some trinket?!!?). As I just re-read the wowhead comments. It seems to have a 10s cooldown and a proc rate of 85% (on a hit).

kalbear
05-13-2008, 03:04 PM
I think you were thinking of all the shattered sun pendants, which all have a 45s cooldown. The idol of terror has just insane proc rates. In bear form it's usually up about 50% of the time for me, and having 5% more dodge half of the time along with a nice chunk of crit is just stellar.

Kheldar
05-13-2008, 04:03 PM
yeah its rocking along for me atm :)

now i just have to convince myself to get the tameless breeches in a few days with my next 11 badges or go with the 'many is better than few' and get several items ! :p

Kheldar
05-23-2008, 02:38 PM
well after grabbing some more badges and once again having just over the 100 mark i was still at a dilemma as to whether to follow your advice on multi items or just go for it and get the Tameless Breeches !

after much deliberating i finally puchased :

Bands of the Swift Paw 35 badges http://thottbot.com/i33580
Ring of the Stalwart Protector 60 badges http://thottbot.com/i34888

Afte playing around with some gems and getting the +Def enchant to chest i'm still just uncrittable at 416 !

so thanks again for the advice. gotta start building up the badges again...either to 100 or for something i spy for less.....maybe the cloak that was mentioned by someone although i've got the thorium one and a resolute !

Got some nice gems as i bought a ton of the epic ones being sold by the GM of a big big raiding guild that just folded.

i went a bit OTT and bought 22 :p and 7 Hearts of Darkness !

tlbj6142
05-23-2008, 03:32 PM
I have a badge choice to make as well. I have 34, should have 35+ tonight.

Do I get the Bands of the Swift Paw (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33580) (would help both Kitty and bear)? Slikk's Cloak (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33593) (bear only)? Or save them for something else (like the Footwraps (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=33582))? I don't see a point in getting the ring as I have the Kara rep ring and a good one from MgT.

The cloak is the "best" in the game and I only have the Valiant Defender (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=29777), though it doesn't help me with Kitty DPS. And with a bit more honor (and a few WSG runs, I hate WSG) I could get Guardian's Bracers (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=35171) which on "the lists" are better than the Swift Paw wrists for tanking. Though I just read they may require a personal rating to use.

My current tanking gear is more than enough for Kara and most heorics. I don't see myself going much further before next expansion. So, maybe I should focus on Kitty gear (for leveling)?

Kheldar
05-23-2008, 03:59 PM
yeah i guess its a question of what are you aming for most ?

bear tanking or
kitty dps ?

i mainly am looking to get my bear gear better for tanking heroics. sure i do a lot of daily's but it does not exactly require major epics etc.......

if you run Mech a few times you might get the Thoriumweave cloak drop which is a pretty good cloak and may allow you to spend badges elsewhere ?'

the Band of the Swift Paw certainly seems a reasonable use of badges for both kitty and bear. again the question is can you / will you run WSG enough to get the ones you list ? if yes then save the badges....

if you are not going much further tanking then it would seem to make sense to prioritise kitty gear.

for kitty dps which are the slots you see as your weakest and look to see what badge rewards their are and plan an upgrade strategy.....

tlbj6142
05-23-2008, 04:09 PM
i mainly am looking to get my bear gear better for tanking heroics. sure i do a lot of daily's but it does not exactly require major epics etcNot for daily's but for 5/10-man PvE. I often do kitty DPS. Even when I'm a "tank", there are times I get to do DPS (one tank fights, etc.).
if you run Mech a few times you might get the Thoriumweave cloak dropI ran the first boss 8 times with a group in hopes of getting the back. It never dropped. I've given up.the Band of the Swift Paw certainly seems a reasonable use of badges for both kitty and bear. That's probably what I'm going to do. I think I just read that the PvP wrists I linked in the previous posts will require a personal arena rating to purchase. I don't do arenas. The non-arena wrists aren't as good, I don't think.

kalbear
05-23-2008, 06:17 PM
Slikk's Cloak is the best in the game for Bears.
Band of the Swift Paw is the second best in the game for Bears.
Guardian's Bracers will require a personal rating.

Really, it very much depends on what bracers you currently have, but my suspicion is that you should go for the cloak. Yours is not so good, and Slikk's would give you 16 stam, 80 armor, 25 dodge and keep about the same defense.

If you really want an upgrade to both cat and bear, I'd go with the vindicator's bracers. Band of the Swift Paw has nothing on those for Cat, and for Bear they offer a lot of resilience cheaply.

tlbj6142
05-24-2008, 12:54 AM
Slikk's Cloak is the best in the game for Bears.I ended up buying the cloak (and the +12 agi enchant). I'll get the PvP bracers (cat and bear) next while saving badges for the footwraps or the bear bracers. After that? Who knows... Maybe my everbloom idol?

Kheldar
05-24-2008, 06:06 AM
atm i dont need the def on Sikks so i will stick with the thoriumweave or even my resolute.

i think i will look at either the handwraps for 75 badges or hold out again for the breeches.

then again i may re-look at the brooch of deftness.

i'd really like a new helm or shoulders.

Ainvarr
06-02-2008, 02:17 PM
Rather than start another badge spending thread I'll just tag onto this one.

Rawr says that Tameless Breeches aren't that big an upgrade for me. I was wondering if it's because I'd lose the 4 set T4 bonus. So I was wondering if I should use the badges for the chest piece...but then I'd lose crit immunity and have to use defense gems. Same problem if my guild starts doing mag again and I get the T4 chest.

The other option is to get the legs and the s2 chest when it becomes available for honor and I'd stay crit immune.


I also care about kitty dps as my guild still wants me to dps sometimes. So I could also use badges/honor for dps gear if the above isn't that much of an upgrade.

http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Malfurion&n=Ainvarr

kalbear
06-02-2008, 02:31 PM
Rawr says that Tameless Breeches aren't that big an upgrade for me. I was wondering if it's because I'd lose the 4 set T4 bonus.That's right. But you still need to break the set at some point, and tameless breeches are stellar for this. I'd not recommend breaking the set bonus until you've got two pieces to replace, but getting the breeches isn't so bad.

Of course, if you're still using clefthoof for the chest, get the Embrace first. It's also good for cat DPS. Not great, but good.

You will need to get either the T4 chest or the embrace at some point, and you'll have to juggle for crit immunity. I'd recommend going with the resilience enchant to the chest. That should help. Def enchants to wrists & cloak are also good, but that -15 resilience should take care of the crit immunity you lose from the clefthoof set.

And keep an eye on getting more; you'll eventually be replacing earthwarden, and when you do you'll lose some more defense.

If you are going for PvP pieces, go for the head and chest over the legs. The tameless breeches are near T6-quality and have more stam than T6. The MG legs are worse than the clefthoof legs. It's not worth the tradeoff.

Kheldar
06-10-2008, 03:36 AM
how do people rate the badge reward helm - Cowl of Beastly Rage ?

50 badges.....420 ish armour and a meta socket which i've not yet got on any of my gear.

i still use the blue purple stylin hat and i love it for its tons of both stamina and agility which i would lose if i took the Cowl.

but i dont see any other choice for me as someone who does not raid.

i'm closing in on 50 badges and am tempted with this helm.

i've not seen any other helm that seems to be a worthwhile upgrade that will drop from a heroic or that can be crafted.

else i am going to keep saving and this time get the tameless breeches.

i am trying to get as many good upgrades as i can from crafted gear - ie yesterday i jumped for joy as i at last saw the pattern for Swiftstrike Shoulders on the AH (sorry cant link it to wowhead or thot etc via firewall) for 400g.

so i snapped it up asap and made them last night :) so my shoulders are now sorted for a while.

plus i made a quick recent decision ahead of the Darkmoon Faire and bought all of the Lunacy cards so i now also have a Lunacy Deck trinket which i have to say procs an awful lot and i love it for both kitty and bear.

Falloraan
06-10-2008, 10:54 AM
how do people rate the badge reward helm - Cowl of Beastly Rage ?
what would you use it for (dps,tanking, pvp, grinding)?

Kheldar
06-10-2008, 11:08 AM
what i would like Fall is a tanking upgrade for my head to replace the stylin one.

it maybe that there is not really anything available to me given i dont raid and the stylin is the best I can get ?

atm for kitty grinding and doint daily's i use a Cobrascale Hood with the +AP and Hit rating (from Aldor?).

Falloraan
06-10-2008, 01:19 PM
Well, Cowl of Beastly Rage is a significant upgrade for dps from your Cobrascale Hood. And for tanking, Cowl of Beastly Rage is a huge upgrade from Stylin' Purple Hat. If you don't raid or do arena, then I would definitely pick one up.

Wyldthang
06-10-2008, 02:39 PM
I know you said you don't like to raid, but not even Kara? It's so easily puggable and you can tank it without being decked in epics. I tanked Prince many times wearing the Stylin Purple Hat before I got upgrades. The T4 helm is so worth it for both tanking and DPS (especially if you get the gloves for the 2pc set bonus). Put an agility/crit meta in it and you're good to go.

tlbj6142
06-10-2008, 02:47 PM
It's so easily puggableIf you have people that know what they are doing. So, you sort of need an uber pug or maybe a "skilled pug".

Kheldar
06-10-2008, 04:45 PM
yeah not sure i would like to totally pug kara after pugging some heroics and out dps'ing the dps :p

i cant say the Cowl looks that significant of an upgrade over the stylin to me ?

what am i missing ?


oh and Wyld - dont get me wrong i do love to raid....i did a lot of raiding pre BC and farmed MC/ BWL and we were working through AQ40.....now though RL changed with a baby so i have no time to raid.

hence just heroics and not even Kara.

tlbj6142
06-10-2008, 04:50 PM
hence just heroics and not even Kara.Assuming you have a guild that would do this, you could just run 3-4 bosses per night in Kara, rather than doing 5-man heorics. You'd probably end up with more badges and (in some cases) better gear.

But getting 10 folks together is much harder than 5.

Kheldar
06-10-2008, 05:03 PM
lol tlb.

i am in a guild of 2 ;)

me tank
other healer

so we have a very good start for a 5 man heroic :p

i know what you are saying but for me 10 people with the lack of time i have, able to play on the same evenings, which are not the same every week for me, is never going to happen.

we know a lot of good people in bigger guilds so doing heorics is never a problem. just anything bigger is beyond my commitment.

kalbear
06-11-2008, 12:48 PM
It's a significant upgrade to the stylin hat for tanking. With a solid star and a powerful earthstorm you'll have as much stam, and you'll have 200 more armor. That's huge.

Normally I'd say don't get this or get it last, but in your case I'd get this before getting tameless. You're going to have a hard time getting uncrittable without the clefthoof legs, and this would be a good choice.

Kheldar
06-12-2008, 03:23 AM
yeah i agree on the uncrittable Kal - its was what started off this thread and my whole dilemma of badge spending !

well after a daily heroic run to Ramps last nite i have 49 badges ! so almost at decision time !

oh and we recruited 2 more last nite - people we know who were unhappy in their guild. so that doubled the guild size in a matter of clicks :grin: and they say 2 others will follow them as well, both people we know and have done heroics with so we'll be running Kara before you know it ;)

i've not looked at the meta gems tbh as never had a meta slot - but i assume Powerful Earthstorm is one with +stam ? No doubt i'll be asking question about meta's soon on here :)

For the yellow slot i'd look at some nice epic gem - possibly 10 Agi from a Crimson Spinel (as the stylin does have a ton of Agi that i'll lose on the Cowl?) or the 15 Stam from an Empyrean Sapphire.

I've got a variety of epic gems in the bank bought when the most advanced horde guild disbanded recently and the GM sold lots of everything including picking up 7 Hearts of Darkness :) I believe i still have some Crimson Spinels, Empyrean Sapphires, Shadowsong Amethysts, Lionseyes and Seapspray Emerald. It was a mega AH spending session, worthy of my wife on one of her big shopping sprees ;)

i'm actually ok on armour imho - with MOTW i run at just over 28k but i guess it would give me some scope to move ring/trinkets around perhaps....i feel 28k armour running just heroics is more than enough ?

kalbear
06-12-2008, 12:47 PM
The more armor the better. It's the best stat to stack for making things easier. 28k is plenty, but it's not bad to have more.

Powerful earthstorm is stam. The other real option is relentless earthstorm, which is agi and 3% crit damage. With that hat, I'd go stam; the cobrascale is not bad for DPS and it's not worth marginalizing the hat for tanking to make it slightly better for dps. I'd also put in a solid sapphire. The socket bonus isn't worth a yellow. If you are going to do one or the other though - do it all that way. Either go relentless + spinel or powerful + sapphire.

Kheldar
06-13-2008, 03:40 AM
yeah i've tried to stack armour all the way til now but do think i'd benefit from a little more stamina tbh.

armour is obviously great but its nice to have a large amount of stam and makes others in the grp and the healer a bit happier seeing you have a lot of stamina.

now we've recruited 2 more people and doubled the guild size ;) we're going to make MgT our next place to conquer as it does have some damn fine loot even on normal.

well i got 3 more badges last nite so have 52 so its decision time tonite before we head off to run MgT normal.

and fingers crossed 2 cc is enough for MgT ! as i read that it needs as much cc and you can get.

Ok so its either a Powerful Earthstorm for Stam or Relentless for Agi & Crit damage...cheers :) Will look at AH availablilty later.

If i buy the Cowl i reckon i'd prefer the Stam from the Earthstorm tbh. I think i'd benefit from more Stam atm and would then as you say add in another +15 Stam via an Empyrean Sapphire.

:grin:

Kheldar
07-04-2008, 03:19 AM
well a few more weeks down the line, a lot more heroics run and i'm sitting at 99 badges of justice after we ran the Daily Heroic last night and then decided to dash off to SP for another quick 3 badges.

so after tonite I get to decide on some more choices of gear :grin:

am told Sethekk is our daily so thats 5 badges with a summoning and despatching of Anzu.


i think its time i took ownership of them loverly looking Tameless Breeches :thumbsup: and then have a play around with how i remain uncrittable.

otherwise i'll look at the Handwraps of the Aggressor or Sikk's Cloak of Placation/Brooch of Deftness.

its slow going getting badge upgrades when you only run heroics but it feels good when you get to spend a pile of them :wavey:

Kheldar
07-09-2008, 02:34 PM
well after much convincing i finally did some pvp starting last saturday.

and now i have 2 very nice epic upgrades for for my druid.

given i dont raid they are very nice and better than anything i could have expected to get in badge rewards or from heroics.

http://thottbot.com/i31968

http://thottbot.com/i28129

so badges can all go towards the 100 badge chest.

tlbj6142
07-09-2008, 02:40 PM
better than anything i could have expected to get in badge rewards or from heroics.Kind of sad, isn't it. Why did Blizzard to that to us?

Kheldar
07-09-2008, 03:17 PM
Kind of sad, isn't it. Why did Blizzard to that to us?
its more than sad tlbj.

i detest pvp but even i had to do some and its only taken a handfull of days for 2 epics - neither of which i can better without raiding.

both of which are better imho than what i could buy with badges or can expect to drop in heroics.

its simply not right.

but as they say, if you cant beat em...join em.

tlbj6142
07-09-2008, 03:32 PM
Let's hope they don't forget 5-man players in the next Xpac.

Claritondeus
07-09-2008, 03:35 PM
Blizz did it to allow people to have good gear who detest PvE :)

I do agree that it's pretty stupid that someone can join a BG, afk while periodically moving their toon so they dont get kicked out of the BG and in two days get ridiculous gear. (I'm a little bitter at losing BG's cause of ppl saying "LOL im only hear for teh welfare epix. just let them win so we can get our badgez and honorz") :(

I like that they are now putting arena rankings on some of the new honor and arena gear.

PvP is nice cause it lets people who don't have 2 - 3 hours to sit at a computer to run a heroic or kara or za or 25 man raid log on for 30 min at a time and accumulate honor to get quality gear. I do agree, however, that PvP gear is getting way out of controll in the stats...

tlbj6142
07-09-2008, 04:48 PM
Blizz did it to allow people to have good gear who detest PvE :)That's fine. I don't think anyone is complaining about that aspect of this "issue".I do agree that it's pretty stupid that someone can join a BG, afk while periodically moving their toon so they dont get kicked out of the BG and in two days get ridiculous gear.This doesn't really bother me too much either. Though it is lame.I like that they are now putting arena rankings on some of the new honor and arena gear.This is great. I'm sure all the hardcore Arena players really like this.I do agree, however, that PvP gear is getting way out of controll in the stats...I just hate that for a casual PvE'r. Heck even some hardcore PvE'rs the best pieces for some specs/slots are from PvP. And there really aren't other options. And it is made worst by the fact that it requires 0 talent (and very little time) to obtain them. Insulting.

I do realize this wasn't as much of an issue 6 months ago. But why not allow me to buy T4 or T5 tokens with some sort of PvE rep, dailies, etc. That's basically the level of effort required to obtain the S2 pieces now. Heck, I'd pay 1000g for one more T4 piece.

Claritondeus
07-09-2008, 06:59 PM
heh tlbj i was just playing devil's advocate when I mentioned people who detested PvE. I'm a big fan of both.

I think it was kind of a knee-jerk reaction by blizz, as pre-BC, you had to PvE to PvP. Rogues or Mages in full T2 were just too much for a casual T0.5 or dungeon blues player to handle... and to get good PvP gear you had to be a red-bull and pixie sticks addict with no life grinding bg's non-stop until you got rank 11, 12 or 13. Which didn't necessarily take skill, but rather a RIDICULOUS time commitment. A lot of casual players (that I know) left cause they just couldn't have fun (i.e. compete) in anything pvp related due to gear, and didnt have the time to raid due to wife, kid, job, etc. and got tired of running strat and scholo over and over. (on that note, adding in heroics and daily quests for gold / rep rewards in addition to easily attainable pvp rewards really helped this).

Your idea of allowing people to buy T4 or T5 tokens with badges, or PvE rep is imo a great idea. Hell, one can now buy S1 and S2 PvP gear with T4 and T5 tokens... Why not something like: you can buy T5 helm for 100 badges if you are exalted with x faction and x faction and have a 'mark' or something from turning in certain dailies or certain gathering / real world quests, and maybe a little gold. Kinda like the T0.5 quest lines.

Claritondeus
07-09-2008, 07:03 PM
And back on topic, Grats on your new gear Kheldar!!

Did you get your chest too?

Kheldar
07-10-2008, 05:24 AM
well to me wow was a pve game where people got together in a guild and looked to beat the content as a group learning as they went. i still talk and play wow with some of the people i started wow with from day 1 all those years ago. i would not be in that position if it had been a pvp solo game.

pvp added in a 'me me me solo solo solo' element which in the past contributed to a guild of mine folding as everyone just wanted to pvp for the (easyier )loot ! and not bother to progress through 5 mans which took more organising and teamwork.

your comment above Clar about those who destest pve had me saying then why the heck are they playing wow :p

ok back to topic....

do you mean pvp chest or badge chest ?

Whilst the PVP chest is better than my still in use Heavy Celfthoof!! its quite a bit worse imho than the 100 badge chest.

So i am now going back to being a 5 man heroic person and aiming for my 100 badge chest.

Along the way i will probably look to pick up the 25 badge arm/stam ring - cant remember all its stats as cannot see anywhere via a firewall....250+arm and a chunk of stam i think ?

This will be better than my 2nd ring which i no longer need for its +def cos i now have about 100 res! :)

So for me i have to say the 2 items I have pvp'd for will make a big difference to my gear requirements given the +res.

I can no free up slots for more dodge or amour or agi etc and the same with changing an enchant or 2 that dont need to be +def !

I've put a nice +18 stam meta in the helm and added another +15 stam epic gem.

I think i am now upto around 16.3k HP ish unbuffed and 29.5k armour. 25.5% crit and just over 30 or 31% dodge. Less than 50 hit however.

Not to shabby for someone whose never even been inside Kara ;)

Roll on Heroic MgT :)

Taiglin
07-10-2008, 02:04 PM
Looks like I will have to break down and do some pvp myself. I don't even know what "season" those items are. Looks like for the head at least I need to hit Alterac Valley(?).

Kheldar
07-11-2008, 03:44 AM
Indeed Taig - well worth a small amount of effort, esp if you dont raid or dont raid very often.

i dont think it matters what season they are ? work out which items you want and which BG tokens you need and go for it.

If you can get a load of honour from the double honour weekends it will help cut down the amount of time you need to spend pvping which is a very good thing ! then just do the minimum running of the actual BG you need for the correct tokens.

the other option that some regular pvpers told me about is a repeatable quest for money and 314 honour that you can do as many times per day as you like. It needs 1 of each of the 4 BG tokens so you just have to keep running them all.

another pvp hating guildie is now running pvp a lot as his druid is his 2nd char and he never gets to take it to heroics so he is going for the whole set of 5 items !

he even said he 'likes' AV ! i almost had to find the guild kick button :p

tlbj6142
07-11-2008, 09:47 AM
From someone who dislikes BG PvP but does it for a few pieces of gear (shoulders, wrist??, Kitty Staff, etc.).

Assuming you are feral....

First buy, and wear, at least 4 pieces of this PvP set (http://www.wowhead.com/?itemset=742). It is cheap, and you should already have the PvE rep needed to buy each piece. The 4 piece movement bonus rocks. Otherwise wear whatever you have that boosts your health, DPS and +res.

Figure out which pieces you want from PvP. Most will cost X honor and Y marks of Z, where Z is the name of the BG. You get 1 mark for losing, 3 for winning. Play the BG you need to get marks from until you have about 75% of the number of needed. Now queue up in that BG and AV at the same time. Whichever one pops first, take it. Once you have the marks, just play AV until you have the honor.

For me (someone who loves PvE and avoids PvP when possible), I like the BGs in this order...

AV -- Large group PvP and some PvE. I end up tanking Van 90% of the time I play. I still don't completely understand the whole "towers" thing, but it really doesn't matter.
AB -- medium group PvP can be fast paced.
Eye -- Basically the same as AB, but a shorter game. However, for some odd reason the Horde in my battlegroup are complete idiots at this BG. We lose 90% of the time, so I avoid it unless I need the marks. Otherwise, I'd rank it a solid #2, almost tied with AV as it is a short BG that is fun to play when your group sort of knows what it is doing.
WSG -- I dispise this BG! Small group and solo, PvP (which I suck at), lots of "inside" areas which makes a Feral feel like you are playing in quicksand. This BG doesn't have a timer of any type and it often seems that no one wants to actually win this BG, so they drag on forever unless it is the daily. When it is the daily, it often goes real fast. I don't need the marks from WSG, so I only play it when it is the daily for the extra honor.
Don't worry about dieing. It took me close to 20+ BGs, before I stopped getting upset when I died. It will happen. Create a kitty power-shift macro and keep it on your bar. Shifting breaks roots, ice blocks and lots of snare type things. Otherwise, I just kitty DPS my way through the BG. And occasionally heal.

Don't forget Cyclone (great to put on a healer why everyone else is DPS his target), roots, feral charge and war stomp (if you are horde). If I actually remember to use those abilities great things happen. 90% of the time I never leave Cat form, so I depend on everyone else for greatness. :grin:

Good luck and remember it is only a game.

Claritondeus
07-11-2008, 01:00 PM
Khel - great advice. To add:
<O:p</O:p
Regarding the season thing: Each season, the gear has the same 'equip bonus' (gloves) and 'set bonus' (2 piece = 35 res, 4 piece = increased movement speed in feral, reduced cast time on regrowth for resto and chace for wraths to reduce starfire cast time for balance set). Each season the stats get higher (except for resil, which has been the same S1 through S4). The only advantage of getting S1 (which looks like the T4) when you could get S2 (which looks like T5) is that S1 costs less honor. But if you are already there grinding it out, why not spend another hour or so for 2-3k more honor to get more stam, agi, str, etc etc.
<O:p</O:p
Regarding the PvP quests: Each day, there is a daily pvp quest which awards 11g and 314 honor. This is for a random bg, and can only be completed once per day. In addition to that, there is a repeatable quest to turn in 1 mark for each bg. You get gold and 314 honor the first time, then after that you get 314 honor. This is a great way to gain honor, but remember that you will need 20 or 40 badges from random bg’s in addition to honor to purchase items. So don’t spend all your badges to get honor, then think “dang, now I’ve gotta run eots till I get 20 more badges #(*%^@&”. Double honor weekends are really good for honor. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Excellent advice tlbj as well.

The order you placed the BG's in is the same for me.

1. AV can either be really fun PvP (Pick a point and defend it... "HOLD THE LINE!!!") or pure PvE (Rush with everyone else to the miniboss then the boss and tank n spank). If you really want, very little PvP if any can take place in AV.

To clarify regarding the towers: AV used to be just like WSG in that if both sides 'turtled' or only played defense, games could last 6+ hours (ugh). So they added in the 'resources' thing. Each time a your team captures a tower and holds it till it is destroyed (3 minutes), the other team loses resources, and your team gains bonus + honor. This is the main reason AV can give tons more honor than any other BG. If your team is able to capture every tower and graveyard on the way to kill their boss, and defend all of your towers, you can get up to a max of 600 bonus honor. So its good to have 3-4 people who go take bunkers and towers and hold them to get everyone the most honor (and helps you win quicker :P)

2 AB is fun if your team knows what it is doing (i.e. gets 3 points and defends), and doesn't just run around in a bloodthirsty pack farming kills. Key things to remember: If you are defending, fight on the flag so they don't capture the flag you are defending cause you got drug away chasing some rogue. When you are attacking, if you wipe them and someone starts capping a flag, head to their GY to slow their respawn wave so that your teammate behind you has the most time possible to ensure a cap (often results in suicide, but its for the good of the team :)) These games are usually quick, which is good.

3. Eye - Meh, combination of WSG and AB. Can be fun, but often frustrating cause ppl are dumb. As a druid, you can have a profound impact by carrying the flag the whole time while your team zergs around to different bases (no one defends anymore in EOTS ><). I avoid this one unless its the daily or EOTS weekend.

4. WSG - I cant stand WSG either. Games last way too long, and its just dumb. I do like the idea of 'capture the flag', but meh. Druids are amazing flag carriers, and can profoundly impact this game if given a reasonable amount of support. If you don't like fighting small scale PvP (dumb rogues) just try to carry the flag. It can be exhilirating racing across the field and capping the flag a few times and winning a quick game. I avoid this BG whenever possible unless its WSG weekend, and even then I spend very little time in here (just enough to get badges).

Good luck with everything. Even though they are dumb and old and WoW needs new BG's, they can be fun if not taken seriously, and provide amazing rewards for minimal work! (and make you look cool - who doesn't want T5 looking shoulders and helm :P)

tlbj6142
07-11-2008, 01:26 PM
Druids are amazing flag carriers, and can profoundly impact this game if given a reasonable amount of support. Last night WSG was the daily, so I did it knowing it would be fast, win or lose. I got the flag and ran back to our base, but they had a few defenders. The flag would not cap! Do I have to be out of combat for that to happen? I assume capping in WSG is just like Eye, stand on the little circle where the flag goes (the same spot where your flag may, or may not, be standing), right?

skwidrific
07-11-2008, 02:26 PM
Your own team's flag has to be there for you to be able to capture the other team's flag.

Blizz has modified WSG so that after a certain peroid of time both flag carriers take something like 100% more damage from all attacks, which was a pretty good solution to turtling...

i LOVE WSG! with the speed bonus that the gladiators' set gives makes us druids some flag-carrying MACHINES... like you mentioned tlbj, changing forms removes all movement impairing effects, so what would slow any other toon down and force them to pop their trinket, all we need to do is shift forms and keep right on trucking...

WSG can be a TON of fun if your group communicates effectively... usually at the start, i say "im feral and can run the flag, i ALMOST ALWAYS go graveyard side" that way people know where you're headed once they see you've picked up a flag... if you're defending, and someone grabs your team's flag, a simple "tunnel" or "gy" lets your team know which direction to go...

don't forget about the speed buff available at the top of each tunnel, either. If i happen to go tunnel with the flag(which is rare) i make it a point to grab it. If I'm defending, i make it a point to periodically check to see if the buff has respawned, and if it has, grab it, so attackers can't take advantage of it.

tlbj6142
07-11-2008, 02:39 PM
Your own team's flag has to be there for you to be able to capture the other team's flag.Didn't realize that. So, what am I suppose to do wait for someone to kill their flag carrier before I can plant the flag?

SmartBlond521
07-11-2008, 03:17 PM
Didn't realize that. So, what am I suppose to do wait for someone to kill their flag carrier before I can plant the flag?

Your team needs to kill the enemy flag carrier and return the flag to your base. If you have managed to run the opposing flag back to your base you need to stand ready to cap once your teammates kill the EFC. ;)

Claritondeus
07-11-2008, 03:54 PM
Like skwid and smartblond said, If you get back to your base and the enemy has your flag, you have to wait till your team kills the enemy flag carrier and returns the flag before you can cap. When you get your flag back, its just like EoTS and you plant their flag in the circle where your flag is.

The best place in your base to stay with the flag is on the roof. Reason is that there is only one entrance, and the enemy has to run uphill to get to you, so if you have a healer there guarding you (as you should being the flag carrier), he can stand at the entrance to the roof and call out who / what / how many are coming up to you. You then have the option to drop down to the second level or all the way to the bottom, or just stay up top and have ppl defending with you kill them as they come up.

If they have a huge offensive coming at you and you are in your base holding the flag and its more than your defenders can handle, head towards your graveyard, as your teammates will be spawning there, and will be able to protect you right away rather than running to find you.

Kheldar
07-13-2008, 10:22 AM
Av is the only one that does not get my blood boiling or the desk getting a fist pounding !

lol.

honour from the likes of wsg and eye seems so small its gonna take a million yrs to get anywhere ! av = worthwhile honour, even if u lose it seems.

kalbear
07-14-2008, 12:39 PM
I don't have a problem with pvp gear being good, or having amazing stats. What I hate is that for feral druids pvp gear is often not only a better choice, but a mandatory choice. Getting resilience is so much better than getting defense for a feral and gives so many more options in gear that it's downright a failure if you don't. Add to this that not a single piece of epic leather gear even has defense, and it's a serious problem.

The xpac removing any need for def is a very good thing.

Kheldar
07-16-2008, 03:50 AM
a fellow pvp hater has just got 4 items and hence the speed bonus.

he says it rocks, esp in wsg when flag carrying as even in bear he moves quickly and has the added advantage of so mcuh health and armour !

Claritondeus
07-16-2008, 02:26 PM
Funny how that works - getting PvP gear makes PvP more fun :) :)

Even if you hate PvP, gritting your teeth for a week or so to get the 4 pieces of S2 gear is worth it. The increased speed is crazy fun.

tlbj6142
07-16-2008, 02:49 PM
he says it rocks, esp in wsg when flag carryingFunny WSG is the BG I hate the most because I lose the set bonus so often going in/out of buildings.

Kheldar
07-16-2008, 03:04 PM
Funny how that works - getting PvP gear makes PvP more fun :) :)

Even if you hate PvP, gritting your teeth for a week or so to get the 4 pieces of S2 gear is worth it. The increased speed is crazy fun.
Lol Clar - i am not sure i am liking pvp more with getting the 2 pieces and with the rep for a 3rd.

i need to get 4 i guess now i've got enough rep for 3. as 3 is a little pointless.

yeah he says the speed bonus is way cool.

and lol he's done so much pvp he now has enough rep for some reallly expensive kitty mace ??


Funny WSG is the BG I hate the most because I lose the set bonus so often going in/out of buildings.
yes i detest wsg as the most annoying blood boiling part of wow ever invented.

the rep you get for it is just a waste of time even when wsg is double rep !

i reckon the only way i would like it - and believe me it reminds me of playing Quake CTF and quakeworld which i use to love - is to have a team of people i know and use voice comms. otherwise it sucks !

tlbj6142
07-16-2008, 03:27 PM
and lol he's done so much pvp he now has enough rep for some reallly expensive kitty mace That mace rocks! I just got mine last weekend (along with the +35 agi enchant). Now I have ~3100AP and ~38% crit in cat form. Plus with the extra +res (combined with my S1 shoulders and S3 gloves), I'm now uncrittable in cat form, which means if I have to shift to bear to tank a loose mob or a boss if the tank dies, they can't crit me!

Last night I was bored and wanted to do a quick 5-man, so I joined LFG and found a group of mid-60s that wanted to run crypts. I just destroyed that place. I felt like uber Druid the whole run (battle rez'd healer due to a bad pull, tops in DPS, tanked the first boss from 35% health down after the tank and 2 DPS died. Solo'd the last 10% since the healer died). It was a blast. Haven't had that much fun with my Druid in some time. I'm sure I impressed the hell of the others in the pug.

Kheldar
07-16-2008, 04:05 PM
dont say that tlb cos i do not want to have to endure pvp to get that mace as well as my 4th piece of merciless !!

tlbj6142
07-16-2008, 04:47 PM
dont say that tlb cos i do not want to have to endure pvp to get that mace as well as my 4th piece of merciless !!Sorry. I'm more than geared for Kara and heorics for tanking. And knew I'd never seen anything beyond Kara, so recently I decided to focus entirely on 2 things (when not in Kara or 5-mans)...

Hording as much money as possible as I assume Blizzard will find something for me to blow money on in the Xpac.
Increasing my Kitty DPS without spending too much money so the first zone or two in the Xpac will be easier. Plus it helps us me do more DPS in Kara when I'm not tanking.

A new mace was a top priority (Earthwarden was my DPS weapon before). As I was able to get a crafted chest and legs. Now I need some better feet, rings and/or trinkets. There are nice drops in Kara and some 5-mans so maybe I'll get lucky. In the meantime, I'm saving up 60 badges for new feet (or a ring) as either would give me a nice boost over what I have now. I'm leaning toward the ring as they tend to be more rare, so I assume it will last longer while leveling than new boots.

I could PvP more to get my S2 Shoulders (I have S1 now) as that would help with Kitty and bear, but the increase is minor. Ditto for a new DPS belt. But after grinding the 27K honor for the mace (thank God I only needed to run AV to get the honor and marks), I need some time off from PvP.

Claritondeus
07-16-2008, 05:51 PM
Lol Clar - i am not sure i am liking pvp more with getting the 2 pieces and with the rep for a 3rd.

i need to get 4 i guess now i've got enough rep for 3. as 3 is a little pointless.

yeah he says the speed bonus is way cool.

and lol he's done so much pvp he now has enough rep for some reallly expensive kitty mace ??


Hehe Khel, I was referring to the following:

a fellow pvp hater has just got 4 items and hence the speed bonus.

he says it rocks, esp in wsg when flag carrying as even in bear he moves quickly and has the added advantage of so mcuh health and armour !

Just seemed that, as he was a 'pvp hater' that he was enjoying some pvp.

The kitty mace is pretty phenomenal. Better than any heroic or kara drop iirc. Still the best kitty mace is the 150 badge one, but ugh thats a lot of badges.

PvP gets REALLLLLLY old when you are grinding out a ton of honor (like 27k)... After I grinded out the Merciless healing mace on my druid I was so sick of BG's that I couldn't step back in one for weeks.

tlbj - i bet that was fun. Back when my lock had just hit 70, I was in a guild SL run, and someone talked one of our decked out druids coming. He showed up and started tanking in bear, then said "wait, this isnt heroic?" then started laughing. He ended up tanking everything the rest of the way except bosses in cat form and just BLEW things up. It was pretty impressive. I'm sure those pugs are still talking about you :)

Kheldar
07-17-2008, 03:38 AM
well i've got a ton of money atm and nothing to spend it on so will see if Blizz give me nice shiny thinkgs to buy in WotLK.

i will just do some pvp now and then when really bored or not enough time for heroics. also will run av a lot when its double av weekend.

going to get my 4 items for the bonus then not sure what i will aim at. probably something for kitty dps...maybe even the mace but that will take me a while for 27k rep !

Oiysters
07-21-2008, 05:08 AM
That mace is worth it. I was using Earthwarden for dps last night in Kara and averaged 495 dps. I used my new S2 feral mace in ZA this afternoon and averaged 620 dps. Same buffs, no other changes in gear. Now if only I could erase the image of Dun Baldur that is burned into my retinas...

Kheldar
07-21-2008, 09:27 AM
but 27k when i dont like pvp is /shudder

i think WotLK will be out b4 i get that mace ;)

tlbj6142
07-21-2008, 10:08 AM
That mace is worth it. I was using Earthwarden for dps last night in Kara and averaged 495 dps. I used my new S2 feral mace in ZA this afternoon and averaged 620 dps. I agree. I was #1 or tied for #1 in every Kara fight in which I didn't have to tank over the weekend. Mind you my guild's players aren't the most skilled, or geared. But, then, I'm not exactly an uber kitty. But I now have (raid buffed, kings, food, pot) ~3450 AP and 42% cirt. Self-buffed (marks only) I'm at 3050 AP and 38% crit.

In a way it makes me a bit sad. And I know from reading elsewhere that Kitty PvE should never be #1 in DPS (or #2). This just drives home the fact that the rest of my guild's DPS ain't that great.:banghead:

Kheldar
07-21-2008, 10:19 AM
well u never know as i dont raid and i dont mind (gulp) AV i may yet get a ton of rep and then only need to worry out the right tokens.

esp as my gear is not going to get any better through heroics!

i have to laugh when the like of be imba! and that wow herois site tell me that kara/grull and mag are easy instances for me and i should concentrate on the medium ones of ZA/TK and just about SSC ! lol

tlbj6142
07-21-2008, 11:15 AM
well u never know as i dont raid and i dont mind (gulp) AV i may yet get a ton of rep and then only need to worry out the right tokens.For the mace you need 40 AV marks and 27K honor. So it is a win-win in my book. If I needed 40 WSG marks, I would not have the mace.

Kheldar
07-21-2008, 11:45 AM
eeek yeah wsg or eye tokens are like a no no !

Kheldar
08-07-2008, 07:09 AM
For the mace you need 40 AV marks and 27K honor. So it is a win-win in my book. If I needed 40 WSG marks, I would not have the mace.
i am now the owner of that 27k honour mace !

but i now really dislike pvp even more than i did b4 ! :banghead:

as you said Clar - i can barely face a BG now !

so i think it will be Xmas before i have enough honour/tokens for another item !

if i ever manage another item its probably going to be a Guardian Belt.

But i'm now hitting heroics like they are going out of fashion to get 175 badges and 2 items.

and we finally want to concentrate on MgT heroic as we feel we have a good core of 4 of us who regularly play together and know enough other people to pull in a good 5th cc/dps'er.

tlbj6142
08-10-2008, 05:39 PM
i am now the owner of that 27k honour mace !

but i now really dislike pvp even more than i did b4 !Congrats. I, too, haven't stepped foot in a BG since I got the mace.

Annikk
08-11-2008, 06:01 AM
In defense of pvp,

You need to gear for it.
You wouldn't expect to walk into The Sunwell in green equipment and succeed immedietely. Likewise, you can't expect to win or even have much fun in pvp unless you are appropriately geared.

This is what puts a lot of people off pvp. They look at their purple gear and imagine that all that damage, all those stats, are going to work in their favour. It's simply not the case. The equipment requirements for pvp differ too much from that of pve.

I agree that pvp is boring, frustrating, and not much fun at all when you are NOT geared for it, but believe me you are missing a big and very fun part of the game by never participating. It does take a while to build up the gear to do well, but once you have it the thrill of pitting yourself against an enemy player - and being victorious - is both gratifying and highly addictive.

If you are not appropriately geared for pvp, you will find yourself dying very quickly with very little opportunity to fight back. The key to excelling at pvp is to not die. Ever, if possible. Once you have some needed resilience and stamina gear, you will find it takes longer for the enemy to burn you down, providing valuable extra seconds during which you can totally turn the battle around.

Micromanagement and split-second reactions are a pretty small part of pvp. Gear is undoubtedly one of the biggest factors. Unfortunately the only way to get it is to just suck it up and prepare to die a lot in battlegrounds and arenas.


I'm not saying you should all go and hit AV and grind thousands of honor - pvp genuinely doesn't appeal to some - however I do feel that a lot of people write it off without ever giving it a chance. "I can't defeat sunwell in my greens, so i don't like pve". :>


-Annikk

Kheldar
08-11-2008, 07:49 AM
its not the gear. i never looked at my gear and thouught i would do well in pvp.

i just detest pvp as a waste of time. pitting a bunch of people who dont know each other, dont talk to each other into a bg is just a mess. however its brought easy epics to people who have time and the inclination to enter places and just mindlessly 'play'.

everyone tries to do their own things and things they think they know best so most of the time its a total waste of 20 mins for 100 rep and 1 token !

maybe there is some fun and even skill in an arena team but not in other places.

esp again some rogue who simply stuns u for the duration of time it takes him to kill u.....yippeee wot fun and what a skillful player he was :o

and i still dont see that i can do any better with some pvp gear ? wot quantifiable differnce has it made ? i certainly dont 'see' any good of the resilience i now have ?

anyway enough pvp talk....

last nite i finally managed to get :

Embrace of Everlasting Prowess :) http://thottbot.com/i34906

so i now have 1 badge !

Annikk
08-11-2008, 08:04 AM
and i still dont see that i can do any better with some pvp gear ? wot quantifiable differnce has it made ? i certainly dont 'see' any good of the resilience i now have ?

With enough pvp stats, you will eventually live longer than the rogue can stunlock you. Then it's bear form/bash/cyclone/healing touch/kill rogue.


everyone tries to do their own things and things they think they know best so most of the time its a total waste of 20 mins for 100 rep and 1 token !

This is both the best and worst things about pvp. On the one hand you don't need to think to hard, you can just play and allow your druidic instincts to guide you. But on the other hand pvp is often disorganised. There is usually no particular plan, and there is usually a bunch of people spamming the chat with their unconstructive immaturity. Despite this everyone is vaguely aware of what is required to win. If you start reporting incoming enemies a lot, others in the battleground will often see you doing this and start reporting as well.

maybe there is some fun and even skill in an arena team but not in other places.

There is skill in pvp. :> Sometimes of course when 10 people all gank you at once, there really is nothing you can do - except to see them coming next time and get out of there!
In a lot of situations though, skill does play a big part. It may not help you actually win the battleground, but a loss where you also bent the enemy over your knee and gave them a sound spanking, is still a moral victory in my eyes :>

It is VERY easy to be negative about pvp when you always get dominated. It's quite hard to imagine the fun of staying defiantly alive whilst sending all their clothies to the graveyard.


pitting a bunch of people who dont know each other, dont talk to each other into a bg is just a mess.

So rather like a pug instance group, then? Only it lasts less time and doesn't involve repair money :>

There is such a thing as a premade battleground group, and those often guarantee swift victory in every game you play.


however its brought easy epics to people who have time and the inclination to enter places and just mindlessly 'play'

You can approach pvp mindlessly, or you can apply tactics to it. There are plenty of different tactics for each battleground. Why not try joining a premade group for a while? That way you are guaranteed some easy wins and you will get to see how a premade group do their tactics. :>


Grats on the new chest !


-Annikk

Kheldar
08-11-2008, 10:33 AM
With enough pvp stats, you will eventually live longer than the rogue can stunlock you. Then it's bear form/bash/cyclone/healing touch/kill rogue.

omg that would be nice !

totally fed up of some stealthed rogue surprising me (even when i am stealthed!!??) then i get to do nothing b4 he kills me.

total rubbish imho. and zero skill required.

same with pallys. they are getting to being close to dead. suddenly they are immune. heal heal heal and then thry run away ?

wtf ! zero skill required.



If you start reporting incoming enemies a lot, others in the battleground will often see you doing this and start reporting as well.

yeah i do this all the time in AB.

works with agood grp who listen and understand. funny just had some good grps and won 4 in a row ! unheard of ! lol. reckon i can get my Guardians Belt now.


So rather like a pug instance group, then? Only it lasts less time and doesn't involve repair money :>
well i find more fun in a pug instance grp even if it does last longer. people in instances are usually there for a reason and are thus reasonably committed. sure some are n00bs, cant play their class or are woefully undergeared for the place - esp heroics. i lose track of the dps (hunter/lock mainly) i out dps as the tank :p


There are plenty of different tactics for each battleground. Why not try joining a premade group for a while? That way you are guaranteed some easy wins and you will get to see how a premade group do their tactics. :>
dont u buy them in the sweet shop ? oh sorry i thought you meant tic tacs :grin:

i am not that good myself to enter a pre-made and tbh i dont want to do that much pvp. getting very fed up after the mace grind. maybe if i was in a guild where 5,10 etc of us entered an AB or WSG together i mite have a more enthusiastic view of pvp :p



Grats on the new chest !
-Annikk
Cheers Annikk - took a long time esp when i look back at when i started this topic ! lol.

Next on the list ? Handwraps of the Aggressor ! so look back in a couple of months and i mite have them !

Annikk
08-11-2008, 11:37 AM
Another thing I forgot to add, which is particularly effective against classes like rogues.
Get a pvp trinket.
The one that removes all stuns/fears/etc on you.

Buy the best one you can afford. Then, equip it during pvp and make sure it's bound to a nice, easy to reach key. (I use the big + on the keypad)
Next time a rogue is stunlocking you, remember to push The Button and then immedietely go into HUGE BEAR form.
Who's laughing now?! :P


-Annikk

Claritondeus
08-11-2008, 02:25 PM
For a rogue to stunlock a druid 100 - 0 does take a good amount of skill, and requires his cd's to be up. Well, unless the druid is in caster form wearing greens. If you can get into bear form at any time (spam the button), it'll be hard for him to take you 100 - 0 with all your armor unless he has warglaives or something.

Pallies on the other hand are just dumb. I hate bubble... it is really funny when the priest I play 5's with mass dispel's a pally bubble and they just sit there not knowing what to do. On that note, there is a lot of skill in arenas, but the main problem is that the classes are so imbalanced that at times its just not fun. For example, warrior + druid pretty much dominate the twos bracket, and double melee own the threes. Fives is fun cause its so chaotic, but its hard to get five people together at any given time.

Agree with what Annikk said about the PvP trinket. Don't ever trinket a rogue's first stun (cheap shot). Wait it out, and right as they hit you with the second stun (kidney shot) trinket, hit NG and get into bear form asap and turn your back to him. A rogue cannot gouge (third stun, broken by damage) from behind. If you get into bear after you trinket the kidney and start walking away from him with NG up, he'll get rooted soon. A good rogue will either trinket this or Cloak out and shadowstep to you, so your job is either to a) get ready to re-cc him if he used his trinket, or b) rejuv / lifebloom / abolish poison and back to bear really quick. He will pop evasion... watch for this and just save your rage until it runs out. As soon as his evasion is up, bash, re-hot / abolish then back to bear. Should be over soon. If you get into a bad spot and you're in bear form, remember you can always use feral charge as an escape: target an emey thats a ways away from you, charge it and shift to cheeta and take off, heal, stealth and re-engage. It's important not to get frustrated at lack of control of your toon (hard to do for me still), and be patient and know when to attack / counter attack. So much fun 'getting back' at rogues and whooping them after all the times they ganked me :)

Re: PvP groups... there is no skill necessary. Other teams often give up if they see a 'premade'. The one thing you do need is a mod called Preform AV version 2.1. There are always people on my server lfm premade bg's with that mod (makes it so everyone individually queues at the exact time, giving a high probability that you'll all end up in the same bg, as opposed to being in a raid group, which increases queue times until it can match you with another raid group rather than against a pug). Most of the times premades are just people that are grinding honor, and dont have really good gear. They are good for learning strats tho... in AB, you'll hear stuff like "group 1 BS, group 2 LM group 3 Farm" and the groups will be balanced.

Grats on the mace K :) One hell of a grind, but def worth it. And ubergrats on the chest. That's a lot of heroics...

Claritondeus
08-11-2008, 02:31 PM
Good luck with Heroic MGT. That's a tough instance, but you'll kill it.

The trinket that drops from there is AMAZING for melee: Shard of Contempt (http://tb01.thottbot.com/i34472)

+44 expertise and chance on hit to increase ap by 230. Yes please.

Kheldar
08-12-2008, 03:41 AM
Cheers Ann/Clar.

I dug out the trinket from the bank remembering that i'd got a simple blue trinket to dispel stuns etc a couple of yrs or more ago but not a clue from where !

i'll try to take more notice of what the rogue is doing to me and in what order. add in massive poisons and i'm usually a gonna !!

and if i do manage to get in a couple of hits on him and then maim and start to run away i then get hit by something called deadly throw so he catches me up again /sigh

yeah i try spamming bear but i dont find i usually am successful b4 death.

umm, as an avowed pvp hater i dont have a point in NG :o

cheers Clar - it was a hell of a lot of heroics. after last nite running 2 i have 8 badges towards my 75 badge gloves !

The chest is nice BUT i found last nite for the first time that i seemed to be struggling to generate rage and missing a lot. my previous chest had 2 +8hit rating gems where as the new one has only 1 slot and i whacked in a +15 stam gem.

I think i am going to have to re gem something with at least 1 +8 or 10 hit gem. I was hoping that having much hit in heroics would not matter but on last nites evidence it appears it probably does :(

I just dont seem to get +hit gear via pvp/crafted or badges ? I guess you get it via the 10 and 25 man raids as your progress?

With food buff i guess I used to run a heroic with about 65 hit but thats gone down now :( I'm loathe to regem with hit instead of Stam or Agi but i cant see a way around it.

Yeah looking forward to heroic MgT - my hit issue aside ! Its probably the only heroic where i am actually going to 'need' loot rather than simply running it for badges !

Annikk
08-12-2008, 08:02 AM
Deadly throw is a ranged finishing move for rogues, it slows the target as well as doing some damage. Just shapeshift out of cheetah then back into cheetah, and you're away. :>


-Annikk