View Full Forums : puzzled about upgrade - armour vs. stamina

05-08-2008, 11:11 AM
At level 67 now, and am using the Jerkin of the Untamed Spirit ( for my bear set.

Emmerald's puts the Warden's Hauberk ( as superior, with the addition of +stam gems. But the armour value is much lower and therefore I am not sure whether I should get it or not.

my armory link (

Any advice on this?

05-08-2008, 12:02 PM
If you are planning on tanking - or making a "real" tank set -make plans now to get the clefthoof chest (and legs/feet). I wouldn't worry about incremental upgrades between what you have and those items for when you hit 70.

In fact as far as advice goes on the subject I would take the time between now and hitting 70 and split it among questing, instancing, and farming the mats for things like the clefthoof set and belt of natural power. As far as instancing I would try to focus on places that give rep for lower city (sethikk halls) and CE (steam vaults which you could do at 68 depending on group). When you hit 70 you will probably want to buy the wyrmhide or kodohide vendor pvp shoulders/head/gloves depending on faction level. You will want to have 2 of either but your goal is the 2 piece bonus since as a fresh 70 you probably wont have the gear to be uncritable. In my case I had to do the wyrm gloves and shoulders as that was the faction I had /shrug. That stage probably wont last long though and you can get the dragonhide head and shoulders which have better feral stats.

05-08-2008, 12:16 PM
Agree. Don't get too hung up now on the gear. Take whatever you think makes the most sense. Or keep both. Focus on CE rep ( and getting honored with the other factions (too unlock heroics and allow you to purchase your shoulders and gloves).

Once you reach (or earlier for a few of these pieces) lvl 70 pick-up items from this list...

it is a bit dated, so use Taiglin's advice and pickup the shoulders and gloves from the new PvP sets, found here. (

Use this guide ( for enchant information.

One more thing, since a large part of your lvl 70 tanking kit comes from crafted and rep items, I suggest you select Kitty and/or Healing quest rewards while leveling. As the starter tanking set can be obtained in a couple of days (2 quest chains and the rest is crafted/rep/AH items).

05-08-2008, 01:43 PM
This all makes good sense.

I suppose the main issue is that I am not clear on the relative value of stamina and armour. i.e. if I have a choice between a piece with higher stam and one with higher armour, which I should take.

05-08-2008, 02:58 PM
This all makes good sense.

I suppose the main issue is that I am not clear on the relative value of stamina and armour. i.e. if I have a choice between a piece with higher stam and one with higher armour, which I should take.I would say armour. Unless you are loosing a ton of +sta in the process.

05-08-2008, 05:25 PM
Since it's a close call, I would say go for the extra Stamina.

This idea may prove controversial with the other druids, but hear me out:

Most bear druids are capable of tanking just fine, regardless of tiny meaningless variations in gear choice. But a bear druid with loads of health fills the healers with confidence and encourages them to do a good job "to impress the tank".
Thus your instances go better because the healer is paying more attention. Consequently you generate a good reputation among regular instancers, guaranteeing your place in lots of easy runs in the future.

When people target a bear druid who is in their group, they see two things: maximum health and maximum mana.

Mana obviously doesn't really come into it but the stamina has quite a large psychological effect on people in your group - particularly healers - which is highly underrated.

Sometimes it is better to take a minor drop in overall tanking effectiveness if it means you will have lots more health.


05-08-2008, 09:16 PM
If you have access to the wardens from CE rep get it, slap +4agil/+4Stam gems in it and it'll suit as a good pre 70 lvl cat and bear piece. The avoidence/armour from Agil and Stam will make it superior. But you are close to getting your Heavy CleftHoof set so I wouldn't put expensive gems in it.


05-09-2008, 05:02 AM
Also you should try to start the quests for Verdant Gloves and Miminal Clutch(sp?) belt.

It seems that your chest it the last thing you should worry about.


05-09-2008, 07:20 AM
i think its called Manimal's Cinch - and its a great starting belt, esp for a high armour rating.

05-09-2008, 12:56 PM
Yes, Manimal's Cinch, I'm going to go for that very soon.

Also I have respecced to include 3/3 Thick Hide now, which will help. Gave up Natural Shapeshifter.

Appreciate everyone's insights.

05-09-2008, 02:03 PM
It is not a close call. Emmerald's lists do some very odd things with values that make them less than ideal for evaluation. You need to use something like Rawr, as it does dynamic evaluation of your gear.

As an example: Emmerald's lists start with the notion that you have 31000 armor. As such, armor is not that valuable. This is clearly a mistake.

In the meantime, in general, you should stack armor first, then stam and avoidance.

And start building up your pvp honor and arena points.

05-09-2008, 03:02 PM
You need to use something like Rawr

No no no no no !!

Don't let calculators, lists, or any other automated thing tell you what is best. I've tried a bunch of them (admittedly always with a sceptical eye) and every one of them has either told me nothing I didn't already know (really obvious stuff), or has given me bad advice.

It's better to ask other druids or just decide for yourself.


05-09-2008, 03:35 PM
Use something like Rawr over Emmerald. A dynamic list will always be more useful than a static one.

Clearly, use things with a critical eye. Rawr is not optimal or perfect, but it is much, much, MUCH better than Emmerald is right now and allows easy ways to solve 'what if' questions. It is a tool. Use it as you would all tools.

Also, I hate the notion of sacrificing armor for stamina to make your healers feel better. You know what makes them feel better? Not taking a ton of damage in a short time. What makes them feel even better is taking so little damage that they can go and DPS. Armor is usually better than stamina in terms of increasing your survivability. There are exceptions; if you're going against elementals or a lot of spelldamage, stam is better. Otherwise? Armor is king.

05-09-2008, 04:01 PM
Don't let calculators, lists, or any other automated thing tell you what is best.The tools and lists do provide good advice for gross changes (there is a very good chance that item #6 is going to be "better" than item #20). However, when you are trying to decide between two items that are within a few spots on the lists it becomes far more complicated (item #4 may, or may not, be better than item #7). It is the later scenario in which you often need to consider "other" metrics and particular scenarios.

My only compliant with the tools is that they no longer provide rankings for the various AH items ("of the ZZZ", etc.). As there a few of those items (especially for resto, balance and kitty) that are quite nice starter (and beyond) pieces that are cheap and easy to obtain, but may not be used because they aren't on a list.

So, for you little bears, cats, chickens and trees out there, I highly recommend the addon Pawn ( As it provides in game "values" to items (you have to define the weights). This makes it much easier to evaluate that weird drop you had not previously investigated, AH items (Is "Mask of the Tiger" better than "Bob's Helmet"?) and quest rewards ("That kitty chest isn't much of an upgrade, I'll take the cloth item for my healing kit.").

Once you get the point where Raid drops and badges are required for upgrades, you probably need to seek outside help (and/or perform quite a bit of your own investigation).