View Full Forums : WoW is backwards
I ran a heroic last night with some guild mates. Pally pulled, didn't mark anything, just tanked it all for the most part. Healing was a breeze. Once we got a group of adds, we all survived, I just had to heal a bit faster.
But it occurred to me... this is backwards. When I was first starting out in BC I had lousy gear and no skills. Now I have great gear and good skills. It should be harder to match my improvements, not easier! :p
Oh well, I guess I'll relax and enjoy it, I earned the rest.
05-19-2008, 12:58 PM
What instance? Some heroics are easier than others, just like non-heroic 5-mans. Plus a well geared Pally tank makes 5-mans easy since they typically don't require CC so DPS can just DPS.
05-19-2008, 02:24 PM
Pally tanks make multi-mob tanking so easy it's not even funny.
05-19-2008, 02:54 PM
Pally tanks make multi-mob tanking so easy it's not even funny.I agree. Is there one aspect of Pally tanking that is difficult? RAID?
05-19-2008, 03:11 PM
No. Pally tanking makes Karazhan stupid easy. You pull entire rooms at one time just to save 5 minutes. Hell BT and Mt. Hyjal is all about having a stupidly well geared pally tank for dealing with Adds. ZA pretty much requires one as well and several fights in SSC.
The only thing I like about pally tanking is that they've upped the CC requirements so much that my poor Elemental Shaman or my druid in kitty form can't get a spot in a heroic. With a pally tank, there's a purpose to taking other DPS. With a warrior, you just can't afford not to take, 3 DPS who can CC.
05-19-2008, 03:36 PM
From what I've read, the biggest challenge for an end-game pally tank is a sustained tank'n'spank against a single target, keeping the TPS above the DPS without going OOM.
Then again, my tankadin is just now starting Outlands, waiting for my guildmates to run Ramparts.
05-19-2008, 03:49 PM
From what I've read, the biggest challenge for an end-game pally tank is a sustained tank'n'spank against a single target, keeping the TPS above the DPS without going OOM.I wondered if that might be the trade-off. With bear single mob threat is brain dead easy (which is why I love BM...18 single mob fights), but multi-mob fights are a bit more difficult.
05-19-2008, 05:00 PM
Obviously they haven't met some of the pally tanks I've dealt with. Some of our pally tanks generate INSANE amounts of agro. So much that we've had DPS go head to head with them and not catch them. But obviously they are best in situations where you can AOE large packs of stuff down all at once.
05-19-2008, 05:08 PM
Pally tanks need mana to gen threat and can threat cap the DPS if they don't chain pot, keeping up BoW, etc.
Kara was nearly tailor made for having a pally tank/ot ( though it makes Maiden interesting ).
A well played pally tank can generate some insane threat, but on long fights they tend to plateau at a certain point to conserve mana. While their threat still increases, it's not as drastic as their initial burst.
05-20-2008, 08:57 AM
^^^ The thing is that BM would be easy as all *@#$ with a pally tank, as the tank could tank adds AND the Rift baddies (yes, even on heroic those things hit like nothing) meaning less healing on whoever is burning the adds down.
Pally tanks are definitely a necessity after SSC IMO (not including SSC or ZA, which are 100% doable without a prot-specced paladin ... who even does Tidewalker anymore, anyway?). Some of the trash in TK can be very unforgiving if you don't have one (birds, Solarian's cronies) ... and don't even try MH without one.
It's true that our pally doesn't really MT a lot of boss fights (although I'm sure he could). I think I've only seen him MT Rage.
05-20-2008, 12:20 PM
Pally tanking makes instances so easy that people forget how to play or never learn. Many if not most of the dps I group with resent having to manage their threat, and don't want warrior or druid tanks for their groups because "they suck".:banghead_
I don't want to see anyone nerfed, but I would like to see a little Blizzard love bestowed on Warriors and Druid tanks to balance aoe tanking a little better between the tank classes.
I think damage meters have become destructive in general to the game because such a large percentage of dps players are more interested in measuring themselves (innuendo intended) than they are in having an effective group.
05-20-2008, 12:52 PM
Last night I ran (as a kitty and off-healer for the blitz) heroic Shattered Halls with one of our guild's Pally tanks. The one thing I found difficult as a DPS'r was that the Pally never bothered to mark targets all that often. Or, if he did mark the first skull, he didn't mark the next kill, etc. We suffered a wipe and a couple of near-wipes until I finally told him he needed to start "moving" the skull after the initial kill (or give us a marked kill order before the pull). I've see this happen before with a Pally tank. It can be quite annoying and in some ways it makes the instance run a bit more difficult than it has to be.
That said, a pally tank that knows how to use raid symbols makes 5-man DPS'ing crazy easy.
05-20-2008, 03:49 PM
My favourite aspect to the pally tanks I've run with is that I can comfortably throw some "pre-pull" HoT's during a pull. Hell, I can run up there with him, wave my arms and scream "Nana Nana Boo Boo" at the mob and never gain aggro.
However, Warrior and Druid tanks are not without their benefits, either.
Pally tanks with mana problems = loss of aggro. Can't say it happens often, but it does. Also, there's not much point in B-Rezzing a pally tank if he goes down. Unless you want him to Back-Up heal, I guess.
I've run with all three, and although I find a different healing strategy applies to each, the outcome is always the same:
While the pally tank does make things easier, I've had the same experience with warrior tank. When they're well geared they take so little damage it is just silly. Me with my +2000 healing gear, it's total over kill. I've even died early in a boss fight like the Blade Dance guy in SH and the tank was able to finish just the shadow priest healing. :p
I notice in 25 man raids a lot of difference between healing a pally tank and a warrior tank. Pally takes a lot more dmg. I think their equipment is pretty equivalent.
05-22-2008, 11:43 AM
Pally takes a lot more dmg. I think their equipment is pretty equivalent.That's make sense as don't Pally tanks get mana (their "rage") when you heal them? If they mitigate everything, they'd run out of mana.
05-22-2008, 12:07 PM
Pallys should actually block a lot more than warriors and can be 100% uncrushable as compared to druids and warriors.
Druids take a LOT more damage than pallys or warriors.
05-22-2008, 12:47 PM
Pally takes a lot more dmg.
If they itemize properly, the difference between all three classes should not be that noticeable.
We never have a feral MT so I couldn't tell ya! But it seems like when they OT they don't take all that much dmg.
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