View Full Forums : Best way to cover initial damage?


Oiysters
05-25-2008, 04:50 PM
Howdy all, respec'd 19/0/42, and have a question on how best to cover initial damage to a tank. This is my first time as a tree.

If I start rolling lb too early, I pull aggro if tank does not consecrate like on a los pull.
If I time a HT cast to fully heal the tank, I have a high chance to pull aggro.
If I start rolling lb after he takes a few hits, I'm behind the whole fight sweating bullets casting all three HoT's and usually needing a HT in there to keep the tank up.

This is on Kara bosses, kael'thas in mgt, and large 3+ multi-mob pulls.

Tank is mostly Kara level geared pally with approx 15k hps, I have a shade under 1.5k bonus heals. My gear is 4/5 Moonglade with Kara rings/weap/offhand/cape and LC prayerbooks.

Please help!

Thanks.

s3Rgio
05-26-2008, 04:20 AM
start with rejuvination. so u always have the chance to cast a swiftmend if your tank dropps too low.
then start stacking lifeblooms, if he drops under 50% u can put a regrowth between the stack-built-up.
u should be fine on every pull with this strat.

if u still have problems, cast one lifebloom on the tank before he pulls. if it blooms in-fight, the tank gets the aggro of the bloom so u have more room for extra-healing.

its just a practice thing. u will get used to it in no time ;-D

Zute
05-26-2008, 10:05 AM
If it's a difficult pull I will cast Regrowth and Rejuv right before the tank pulls.

Magellan19
05-26-2008, 11:55 AM
Rejeuve, LB, LB, LB
Rejeuve, LB, LB, LB
Rejeuve, LB, LB, LB

That's me.

If I have to throw a Regrowth on a party member, then I come back to the tank with a Swiftmend and start again.

tlbj6142
05-26-2008, 04:40 PM
Rejeuve, LB, LB, LB
Rejeuve, LB, LB, LB
Rejeuve, LB, LB, LB When do you start? Do you 'till the tank has 80% or less health? 60%?

Poysonivy
05-26-2008, 08:52 PM
I do LB, LB, Rejuv, LB, Regrowth, LB..etc.. And if heavy dmg I pop a swiftmend right after the rejuv. If you pull aggro with that the tank is *peep*...

Oiysters
05-27-2008, 10:01 AM
Thanks, that helps quite a bit.

A couple more questions:

1. If I had a Rejuv/LB stack rolling before the pull, does the threat from the ticks go to me or the tank?

2. I assume the threat if I Swiftmend would go to me?

3. I went 19/0/42 to try and make dailies and farming tolerable. Am I gimping myself as a healer by not having any HT or Tranq talents? I'm thinking of Heroic 5 mans where if a tank loses control of a pull (which nearly always happens at least a couple times in a pug) when spamming HoT's isn't enough.

Thanks again for all the info.

Oiy

Pookies
05-27-2008, 11:50 AM
1) If you cast a HoT on the tank OOC, then the threat does not go to you. A good explanation I have read (I forget where) is that a mob has to "know" who cast the HoT, which it wouldn't if you cast it OOC.

2) Yes.

3) You seem to have answered your own question.

Slaide
05-27-2008, 12:23 PM
I usually have no problem doing dailies just because everyone in my guild wants the healer to run with them. i am a full 61 points into resto and i don't think i'd change my specc (at least for PvE healing). I end up using tranquility more often then healing touch, but even healing touch has its (NS+HT) usage and its nice to insta-heal-crit your tank for 8k. Having full points into resto is really more a matter of personal play style, i can see the desire for the balance points but what i've been doing is just putting on piecesof balance gear and soloing. i have like +620 spell damage, and thats good enough for QD dailies atm.

Oiysters
05-27-2008, 12:28 PM
1. Thanks.

2. Thanks again.

3. Lol at my own foolishness. ;-)

Good point Slaide. I have a decent damage set that I will continue to upgrade with the badges I earn now that I am able to get groups much more easily.

Btw Pookies, I enjoy your blog.

Zute
05-27-2008, 01:08 PM
3. I went 19/0/42 to try and make dailies and farming tolerable. Am I gimping myself as a healer by not having any HT or Tranq talents? I'm thinking of Heroic 5 mans where if a tank loses control of a pull (which nearly always happens at least a couple times in a pug) when spamming HoT's isn't enough.

I have 19/0/42 and it is fine. I pop Barkskin before Tranquility in case I pull aggro. If I'm relying on HT then we're probably going to wipe anyway, it is too slow casting and relying on crits... nah. I like sure-bets. Talenting tranquility is a waste since you can only use it once every 10 minutes. That's my reasoning anyway.

I'm really puzzled why someone would put 62 points in Resto. Half those skills are useless unless you have points in balance or feral too.

Magellan19
05-27-2008, 05:07 PM
When do you start?

Depends on the tank...

Well geared Pally or Warrior? I can start during the pull and never draw aggro.

Well geared Druid? I usually wait until about 60 or 70 %. Ya. For the aggro factor.

Sometimes, with a new tank to avoid aggro, I have to start out with a major heal (regrowth or HT) at about 50%. It ain't pretty playing catch-up, but it works.

s3Rgio
05-28-2008, 02:06 AM
3. I went 19/0/42 to try and make dailies and farming tolerable. Am I gimping myself as a healer by not having any HT or Tranq talents? I'm thinking of Heroic 5 mans where if a tank loses control of a pull (which nearly always happens at least a couple times in a pug) when spamming HoT's isn't enough.


if u need bigger heals and lots of them use Regrowth as a normal cast. a druid can live without ever using HT. Thats the way of a tree healer.

I have a 9/0/52 built for the Improved HT (its my "save the tanks ass"-instant heal with 7-8k, Imp. Tranq for the aggro-issue (better to generate no aggro then to fear of dying), Natural Perfection for crit and arena and natural shapeshifter for movement fights like Archimonde or Supremus.
The 9 points in balance just for arena.

Pookies
05-28-2008, 09:03 AM
You healing start right away with any good tank, regardless of class.
You healing start late with a bad tank, regardless of class.

Most of us (myself included) don't use HT, which is fine. That frees up some talent points for us.

But I don't think we should be telling Oiy not to talent HT if he relies on it.

If your healing strategy involves HT and using that strategy keeps your party alive, then talent it, plain and simple.

And thanks, Oiy. :)

Oiysters
05-28-2008, 11:13 AM
Well, I learned a couple things in the last 24 hours.

1. The CD on Swiftmend is only 15 seconds. For some reason I had it in my head it was much longer until I re-read the tooltip. Duh.

2. I still think like a Dreamstate healer. I put together a NS+HT macro for emergencies and started either rolling a LB stack before the pull or throwing Regrowth as my first HoT and things went much more smoothly in tree form.

Another question. Our RL's do not like to give healing assignments except in rare circumstances, like having a healer dedicated to the mage tank during the High King fight in Gruul's. (She was mine and she finished every attempt on that fight fully healed.:thumbsup: ) Otherwise the instruction is to heal the tanks and spot heal as you can. This seems totally counterintuitive to me. According to my Recount we overhealed by about 30%, and this is on a run where a few of our best-geared members took a bunch of the rest of us as a gear check/upgrade run. One of them told me that "the healing was a little light." How can we overheal 30% but still be " a little light" on healing? Round numbers - 10 million healed, 3 million overhealed.

Am I smoking crack or should the healing be more organized than that?

Allahanastar
05-28-2008, 01:25 PM
What I've seen in some instances is that the RL leaves it up to a "self appointed" healer lead who organizes the healers. In our guild alliance the healers opened up a new channel just so the healers can chat and trade information outside of the main raid channel. So they are leveraging our TS server as well as the in game voice.

Honestly in this case the best way to fix this is to have a healer lead who takes care of healing assignments. Its critical in a lot of the 25 mans that someone takes care of knowing the healing assignments and making sure people are doing their job.

tlbj6142
05-28-2008, 01:52 PM
What I've seen in some instances is that the RL leaves it up to a "self appointed" healer lead who organizes the healers. I've always assumed the healers were doing this as I rarely, if ever, hear the healers talk about assignments unless there is a special need for this encounter (de-cursing, over heals required to stop bleed debuffs, etc).

Someday (I'm thinking I might make the switch in the next expansion) I'll become a healer and get to join this secret club as we tanks don't talk all that much.

Allahanastar
05-28-2008, 02:47 PM
One raid guild I knew had two key groups. They had the Healer Corps and The Tank Corps. Both groups were pretty tight knit and they tended to help cross train each other. I'd love to implement that in our guild alliance, but we already have too many strong personalities in the various guilds where this wouldn't work I think.

Pookies
05-28-2008, 02:50 PM
Healing assignments are important. If your raid doesn't have a healing class leader, it needs one IMO.

That having been said, don't freak about 30% overall overheal, it really isn't that bad at all. :)

Magellan19
05-28-2008, 03:13 PM
When running a 10-man with 2 tanks, I will whisper the other healer to let him know which tank I will be focusing on.

When running a 25-man, our RL always assigns the healing. Personally, I find that when he speaks, everyone listens. But, anyone else offering their input? Unless it's confirmed by our RL, nobody really cares to hear what they have to say. :rolleyes:

And as for HT, although I'm a tree healer, I am not afraid to admit that I use a NS + HT macro that I find invaluable for those "Holy crap! They hit that hard?" moments. :thumbup:

Kyane
05-28-2008, 03:20 PM
That having been said, don't freak about 30% overall overheal, it really isn't that bad at all. :)

Overheal isn't really a big deal at all unless you're running into mana issues.

The druids I ran with always had the lowest over heal going ( hots don't tick unless there is something to heal ) and the bloom from Lifebloom is credited to the person the lifebloom is on, not the caster.

Regardless, I loved healing on my shaman. Chain heal is all kinds of hax :D

Claritondeus
05-28-2008, 08:04 PM
Healing assignments are really helpful in 25 man raids, but only really for boss fights. Need to have a certain amount of healers assigned to MT, a few less assigned to OT, and then the rest assigned to raid healing.

Chain heal is hax :P 3+ resto shamans and 4+ warlocks make Hyjal a cakewalk.

Pookies
05-29-2008, 12:25 PM
What I meant to say is that 30% overheal is a pretty normal value (for non-druid healing classes). Druids should definitely be lower.

Healing assignments are really helpful in 25 man raids, but only really for boss fights. Need to have a certain amount of healers assigned to MT, a few less assigned to OT, and then the rest assigned to raid healing.

Chain heal is hax :P 3+ resto shamans and 4+ warlocks make Hyjal a cakewalk.

With 4+ warlocks, everything is a cakewalk. We usually have 4-5 locks and a mage. Hyjal trash goes down like nuts.

Oh ... and my guild's brain healing shamans still can't outheal my four Lifebloom stacks. :thumbsup: