View Full Forums : Intended spec for WotLK


Annikk
09-04-2008, 11:05 AM
As I understand, we can have 2 specs that we can instantly swap between for no cost (although perhaps a cooldown).

These are my intended specs:
PvE - Cat DPS (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?druid=3502021323220120531000503135100550301200000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000)
PvP Spec (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?druid=5032021323202120531033533131100550001000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000)


Comments welcome. Please also post yours.


-Annikk

tlbj6142
09-04-2008, 11:09 AM
How could you not take KotJ? It is the single greatest talent in the entire tree, especially for cats. 60 free energy every 30s. Sure it is even better for PvP, but it is still nice in PvE, though you can't use it until your tank builds up some threat.

I think it is a better talent than Berserk. I sort of feel like we got the shaft with our 51 point talent.

Annikk
09-04-2008, 11:11 AM
We have had this discussion before, apparently KotJ only gives energy if used during Rampage. So it's really not that amazing for pve.


-Annikk

tlbj6142
09-04-2008, 11:12 AM
If you use Tiger's fury you get 60 energy. If you use enrage (the bear skill) it boost your damage output.

Annikk
09-04-2008, 11:15 AM
Ah - it's been changed to Enrage. Or maybe I got confused about this before and am still confused now.

Anyway yus.. I guess it is pretty sweet. Hmm, I shall have to look again..


-Annikk

tlbj6142
09-04-2008, 11:15 AM
With the new version of Furor (tooltips have not been updated yet), I also think that 2/2 iMotW and 3/5 Furor might be "better" than 5/5 Furor. Unless, of course, you expect to have a Resto druid in your group all the time.

Here's the new version of Furor...
Gives you 100% chance to gain 10 Rage when you shapeshift into Bear and Dire Bear Form, and you keep up to 100 of your Energy when you shapeshift into Cat Form, and increases your total Intellect while in Moonkin form by 10%.
Found in the last blue post in this thread. (http://blue.mmo-champion.com/2/9023610487-energy-regen-change--intended.html)

Remember that in LK, you constantly gain energy while in any form. Which is sweet for leveling, as you can now use travel form, etc. to run short distances, shift to cat and mangle away without waiting for energy. This will be a boon for kitty pvp as well (bear, bash, back to cat with nearly full energy bar. roots, cyclone back to cat with full energy bar, etc.). And to a lesser extent in PvE as you can now use your CC, shift to cat to dps, shift out to re-CC, shift back to cat. The whole time gaining energy.

Annikk
09-04-2008, 11:24 AM
Edited the original post to my updated pve dps spec, swapped points out of Imp LotP and Infected Wounds to get the 3 in King of the Jungle.

I still want to keep Furor as my preferred pve game-experience is DPS with off-healing. So not losing energy while I ping off a quick heal on my rogs will be nise :> For pvp, it will still be awesome because it allows insta-bash.


-Annikk

tlbj6142
09-04-2008, 11:29 AM
My point is that with 3/5 furor you'd still keep 60 energy. 60 takes 6s to gain, in that 6s you ought to be able to get off a heal or two. And you'd still have the benefit of 2/2 iMotW which is +14 stats, +400 armor and +xx res over the normal rank 9 MotW. On everyone in your party. As it currently stands, only Resto Druids will take 2/2 iMotW as Balance druids now get a boost to int with Furor.

Just a thought. Not sure how well it will work in practice.

skwidrific
09-04-2008, 01:07 PM
Thannks for posting the PvP spec, Annick!

For myself, I've been racking my brain trying to figure out how to get to Master Shapeshifter... i think my head is about to explode! there are quite a few very desirable talents, and i don't get enough points to spend! lol

tlbj6142
09-04-2008, 01:15 PM
We are spoiled in BC with 5-8 extra talent points, so it seems like we are 5-8 short in LK. Which means we will actually have to make some decisions in LK. Though I expect we will see 1-2 more talent tree changes before LK is released. From reading the blue posts, it certainly seems like they are "not done" with Druids, Rogues and Warriors. Since we will use rogue gear and possibly share non-set items with warriors, I suspect druids will be one of the last classes to get fine tuning. Or worst, forgotten.

Kheldar
09-05-2008, 03:01 AM
As I understand, we can have 2 specs that we can instantly swap between for no cost (although perhaps a cooldown).

-Annikk
We can ?

Not seen or heard about this before.....

Oiysters
09-05-2008, 04:21 AM
This was recently asked about on the beta forums; a blue poster replied and said that no new information was available about this yet, so they've not decided whether to impelment this.

Kheldar
09-05-2008, 05:33 AM
it would be great and imho overdue for us as a class with the roles we can be asked to fill.

was this intended just for druids or other/all classes ?

it would help everyone and stop an issue that's cropped up for us recently whereby a priest who usually pvp's says they can no longer afford to respec everyday from pvp to heroic and back to pvp.

ie they would be respeccing once per day as they mainly do pvp/arean not having much of an interest in raiding 3/4 times a week for 4 hrs at a time but they enjoy coming to some heroics in a small grp.

as of last nite they are not going to be coming with us as pvp is their main focus. not heroics. so they stay as pvp spec most of the time.

tlbj6142
09-05-2008, 08:51 AM
It was just hinted at several months ago. The fact that have have been really quite about it, makes me think it will happen. It will be one of the surprise features when LK is released.

Frankly, I don't like it. As it allows an even smaller group of elite players to consume raid spots, arena, etc.

I certainly hope they put some type of long cooldown (hour? once per day?) on the ability. If you can switch every time you are out of combat, it will have a huge negative impact on the game.

Claritondeus
09-05-2008, 12:39 PM
I can't see them making it an insta-swap type thing. I would assume that there would be some sort of CD associated with swapping specs.

The reason they would do it is exactly what Kheldar said. Unfortunatley there is such a disparity between arena / pvp specs and raiding specs for most classes that there is little if any crossover. Resto druids and holy pallies to a lesser extent being probably the only exceptions. It is tough spending 300 - 500g weekly to be able to be productive at more than just one aspect of the game.

WoW seems like it is going to become amazingly homogenous with the xpac anyway, with multiple classes having the same buffs, be able to heal the same, be able to tank the same, etc. I kinda liked the differences between classes, and the dynamic that brought to raiding / pvp. Personally I really liked it when alliance didnt have shamans and horde didnt have paladins. Gave the game more of an 'us and them' feel. Same thing with pvp and pve sets looking different way back when - there used to be more of a unique feel to each class / faction. Blizz wants to make it so everyone can get everything and everyone can do everything. Which is a good move on their part I suppose...

tlbj6142
09-05-2008, 01:19 PM
I understand the PvP <--> PvE spec issue. And for that it makes sense. But I'm concerned about the impact it would have on those who have dual PvE specs? I could be feral and resto? If I'm a cool person and today we have an extra tank, do I end up replacing our normal healer because he isn't our RL "friend"?

Now if they want to make such that you have PvE and a PvP specs and the later is only active in BGs and Arenas and optionally in world environment. And the moment you step into an instance your PvE spec becomes active. I would be fine with that.

Oiysters
09-06-2008, 02:55 AM
After taking a good hard look at the feral tree for the first time, I'm holding out for the tree to change again before 3.0 comes out. Maybe I'm just to used to the current trees, but I the new trees don't seem to 'flow' like the current ones do. I finally understand what they mean by a tree being bloated...wow.

Kheldar
09-06-2008, 11:55 AM
indeed tlbj - i'd love them to allow us to have a PVP talent spec which only works the moment u enter a BG and then a pve spec for levelling/questing/heroics/raiding etc etc etc

then our 'other' priest could spec holy and heal us in heroics which is what she is up for doing - but at the same time have a pvp spec as she does a lot of arena.

Annikk
09-07-2008, 06:30 PM
Post your specs, druids ! :> Or at least, what you would go for if the talents stay as they are.


-Annikk

Sytaera
09-07-2008, 10:54 PM
I think...I was leaning towards this build for tanking:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/druid/talents2.html?tal=00000000000000000000000000005032 32132320010353122343013010055020100000000000000000 0

And for feral DPS/PvP

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/druid/talents2.html?tal=00000000000000000000000000005032 02132322212053123003312410055020100000000000000000 0

Still debating really on the points in resto because of the furor changes and stuff but I don't know. So many talents so little points. =(

Annikk
09-08-2008, 06:35 AM
I think perhaps for your bear spec, the 2 points in Natural Shapeshifter would be better spent in Primal Precision. That's 10 expertise - NOT expertise rating - which will significantly boost your aggro, make your hits more reliable, and increase mitigation somewhat.

It's tricky to decide though.. :p


-Annikk

Kheldar
09-08-2008, 07:52 AM
hmm that talent calculator wont work for me so will try find one somewhere else...

Sytaera
09-08-2008, 04:32 PM
Hrm...good point Annik. I think I had some sort of impression that precision was a cat only skill. I keep forgetting that natural shapeshifter is for PvP and just toss points in it everywhere as I've been sort of clinging to that talent since level 49 because I always go OoM shifting out of traps and stuff.

Still working on the pure PvE mentality. =(

Kheldar
09-08-2008, 05:12 PM
found one on official site.

hmm a little bit difficult seeing as how i still want tobe able to have OoC.....

need to think more..

Oiysters
09-09-2008, 03:22 AM
PVE Cat (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=0ZE0Msfrdbeo0euAo0E0z)

PVP (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=0ZVGGscbz0IohjuAo0Eczb)

Bear (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=0ZxhGscrzceoIjzAo0E0z)

But not too confident in the bear build yet.

Christ, I've got to redo these, they're terrible...later tho...hard to face them lol...

Annikk
09-15-2008, 07:16 PM
Here's a pvp build I made that includes Master Shapeshifter.
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=0ZqGMsfbz0eooeuio0Eczb


-Annikk

tlbj6142
09-17-2008, 11:32 AM
FWIW, this (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?druid=5030321323222103531003533130120350001000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000) is going to be my lvl 80 spec. But I will go with something different while leveling.

I'll start at lvl 70 with this build (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?druid=5030321323222100531003003105000550001000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000). Then take Berserk at 71 followed by 4/5 PI. Then, I'll respec to pickup 5/2 MS (dropping PI), and continue back in feral tree until I reach 80.

I'm assuming that that leveling scheme ought to give me enough tanking talents to tank pre-80 5-mans yet still give me plenty of solo DPS for questing. Once I get to 80, I respec (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?druid=5030321323222103531003533130120350001000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000) for a bit more tanking at the cost of some DPS (namely 5/2 MS).

Annikk
09-17-2008, 11:38 AM
Hrm...good point Annik. I think I had some sort of impression that precision was a cat only skill.

Since seeing the itemisation in WotLK, I have revised my opinion on this talent. Since most items seem to have expertise rating on them already, I don't really see that 10 expertise from 2 talent points is an efficient spend for a bear-spec druid.


-Annikk

tlbj6142
09-17-2008, 12:17 PM
Since seeing the itemisation in WotLK, I have revised my opinion on this talent. Since most items seem to have expertise rating on them already, I don't really see that 10 expertise from 2 talent points is an efficient spend for a bear-spec druid.That is very true once you get the gear, you will be able to drop those 2 points. I would, however, take those points until you have plenty of expertise from your equipment, especially if you are tanking often.

It should be noted that the current T7.10 set does not have any +hit on it, but lots of +exp. exp > hit for bears and solo cats, but for PvE cats hit > exp. And you'll need some hit to boost your DPS. I hope it comes from non-set pieces.

FWIW, I'd probably pick-up iLotP if/when I drop Primal Precision.

Runyarusco
10-01-2008, 03:56 PM
That is very true once you get the gear, you will be able to drop those 2 points. I would, however, take those points until you have plenty of expertise from your equipment, especially if you are tanking often.

It should be noted that the current T7.10 set does not have any +hit on it, but lots of +exp. exp > hit for bears and solo cats, but for PvE cats hit > exp. And you'll need some hit to boost your DPS. I hope it comes from non-set pieces.

FWIW, I'd probably pick-up iLotP if/when I drop Primal Precision.

I essentially agree with this; for my preliminary "raiding" Bear build, I'm not picking up Improved Leader of the Pack.

sum durid is bare! (http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?druid=5032321303222103531003303135100550001000000 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000)

Allahanastar
10-01-2008, 04:00 PM
I can see not picking up Improved Leader of the Pack. I've gone through a ton of stats and the healing thought is nice, but realistically 90% of the healing is wasted. Almost always it just goes to waste. I just kind of picked it up in my one build out of habit, but I'll have to rethink that hmm....

tlbj6142
10-01-2008, 04:01 PM
I'm still not sold on iMangle and it is not real clear if IW actually works on boss mobs. Unfortunately, you can't really take both.

Also, there are a few on EJ claiming you may not really need to take shredding attacks to have good DPS. Something to keep in mind for those that want a "bear with a touch of DPS" feral spec.

tlbj6142
10-01-2008, 04:05 PM
I can see not picking up Improved Leader of the Pack.I might take it instead of Primal Precision while leveling. Then, at 80, swap those two. And if I ever reach the exp cap, pick iLotP up again.

Runyarusco
10-01-2008, 04:05 PM
I know that I'm going to be primarily focused on tanking, so I'm not really concerned about DPS right now (which is why I left out the generally obligatory Shredding Attacks). Infected Wounds was originally interesting to me (and worked on all five-man dungeon level boss mobs), but in comparison to the similar Imp.TC, we're really blown out of the water (and I'd personally rather get my token 11 points in Resto).

Imp. Mangle has currently won me over, but as always, things are subject to change.

Allahanastar
10-01-2008, 04:12 PM
I think the savings on cooldown could be worth it. I found my rotations while leveling used a lot of Mangle. Cutting the cost of Mangle combined with heavy use of Tiger's Fury (which is god like in my opinion) and a shorter cooldown meant I rarely shifted out to heal myself. Things just died way way too fast.

For perspective I have mostly T4 gear. I have a few select pieces from ZA (like one piece) and I have like one or two pieces of badge gear (like the staff). I'm not overflowing in super awesome T6 gear (like the people who seem to flood the beta servers for whatever reason...). Things died fast and I was replacing gear pretty early so I could test the new stats like haste and the agility heavy rogue gear.

Oiysters
10-01-2008, 07:19 PM
I don't think the math is settled enough to say we no longer need Shredding attacks, although it's close enough that for a bear/cat hybrid we might leave it out. For a dps kitty levelling build though, there doesn't seem to be a reason to leave it out at this point.

I personally like the muddled math; I don't like when our abilities get mathematically eliminated from use.

Kheldar
10-02-2008, 03:17 AM
i saw something in a blue post last night talking about a nerf to PotP but did not have mcuh time to investigate....

anyone else seen this and can comment ?

Oiysters
10-02-2008, 04:28 PM
They are trying to reduce our mitigation in bear because atm we outclass the other tanks in this area, while at the same time having the lowest avoidance due to the agility nerf and our lack of block and parry. In our current state in the beta GC has stated that they are concerned we would be the tank of choice for raids due to what would become vastly superior mitigation by Naxx. They are tuning our mitigation by reducing our multiplier (down to 370% last I read) and by tweaking PotP.

The PotP tweak has resulted in howls of protest due to it simultaneously nerfing both our physical damage mitigation AND our magical mitigation, which to my knowledge was not shown to be a problem. We are at a severe disadvantage to the other classes with regard to magical mitigation (it's a DK speciality, warriors have spell reflect, I forget the pally equivalent), so people are screaming.

Kheldar
10-03-2008, 02:49 AM
why cant they sort out the other classes rather than nerf us - this sounds like quite a big nerf stick ?

guess i need to do more digging/reading to fully understand what and why wrt to reducing our multipliers :(

Allahanastar
10-05-2008, 10:15 AM
I think the issue is that they like how much damage the other tanks are taking, but they don't like that we aren't taking that much damage. We probably make doing Naxx a breeze.

The only issue I have is that most other tanks are going to scale at the far end where we tend to not scale as well. Without the armor we don't scale and the warriors get their next new sexy sheild and add 4k armor to themselves... um and what do we get? Rogue leather....

Oiysters
10-05-2008, 11:40 AM
High armor trinkets = bear shield. lol...

One thing I would seriously like to understand is why Blizzard refuses to give us parry or block. NPC animal forms can both parry and block, and we can't? Makes no sense whatever to me.

It would give bears so many more scaling options and create more opportunities for character customization.

Runyarusco
10-05-2008, 10:05 PM
Also note that right now, Predatory Instincts is only functioning for Cat Form. This is an intended nerf (http://blue.mmo-champion.com/2/10535473265-feral-tanking-nerf-actually-a-buff.html). Obviously this throws a slight wrench into my previous build, and until I figure out whether or not we are having a Warrior run with us all the time in Naxx, I'm not sure whether I want to commit points to FA or IW. Regardless, right now I'm probably looking at 0/60/11. If we do end up running with a Warrior: this (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=0ZxGGsfrkceRc0uAo0E0z).