View Full Forums : Beserk vs OoC


Kheldar
10-16-2008, 12:42 PM
ok cannot decide on a build for the next few weeks til Wrath wrt taking OoC which i've always loved for both cat solo doing dailys and for tanking.

or to have/try the new beserk ?

any views ?

i wont be raiding in the next few weeks just some heroics and daily's.....

Abies
10-16-2008, 12:51 PM
Just take what you find more fun. OoC is definitely the better talent for DPS/Tanking, whereas Berserk is better in PvP.

If you are not afraid of some respec costs, try out Berserk a bit and then take OoC for its PvE uses. Otherwise I'd go straight for OoC.

Generally, as long as you have decent equipment it shouldn't really matter.

Destinae
10-16-2008, 01:02 PM
Abies, won't that cause you to lose potentially useful talents in the feral tree? I built up all feral, tried to focus on mainly bear talents, including berserk. I couldn't decide what to do either. It's tough.

Annikk
10-16-2008, 01:26 PM
Here's mine:

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0ZxGMscbdbeohIuAo0L

pvp spec.


-Annikk

Kheldar
10-16-2008, 01:32 PM
maybe something like this to get beserk and be ready for OoC as i like furor and naturalist.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=0ZxGGsc0dceR0czNo0E


hmm just looked at the smallprint in OoC on wowhead.....its says its triggered by 'auto attacks' - does this include abilities like mangle etc ?

Allahanastar
10-16-2008, 01:42 PM
I personally LOVE Berserk. For DPS kitties the burst damage is huge. For tanks the extra threat generation for the period its active is pretty big too.

Abies
10-16-2008, 04:24 PM
Abies, won't that cause you to lose potentially useful talents in the feral tree? I built up all feral, tried to focus on mainly bear talents, including berserk. I couldn't decide what to do either. It's tough.
We lose talents either way.

Yes it triggers only from white damage (no Mangle, Shred etc), but it had its proc rate increased. The procs per minute are the same as they were before.

Berserk, while nice, just doesn't measure up to OoC in PvE, at least IMO. Is it fun to use? Definitely! But does it give you more TPS/DPS than OoC? I'd say no.

It all depends on what you wanna do. For fun just spec any way you like and try out the new stuff. But if you wanna maximize your DPS/TPS, you should go for OoC.

Allahanastar
10-16-2008, 04:33 PM
Berserk is way more valuable though for multimob tanking. It allows your high threat maul to hit multiple targets. That is a big deal from a multimob threat situation. I think it probably is worth it overall, but thats a gut feel thing from having played around in beta with it.

Cinnas
10-16-2008, 04:44 PM
Right now while I'm still mostly tanking until the expansion I like Berserk more for the multi mob threat. All of my runs have been no-cc-AE-fests (which has been so fun) and berserk has really helped for that. Also with 5, 6, 7 mobs on you plus bonus rage for your swipe crits (which with it hitting 6 or 7 at once you pretty much always get at least one crit per swipe) and dodges I've found that I generally have a hard time dumping all the rage I have even without OOC procs.

However, when I start leveling again I'm definitely going back to having OOC for my cat soloing, and if I were mostly dpsing right now I'd probably take OOC too.

Destinae
10-16-2008, 05:02 PM
Annikk, I must be doing something right (if I'm trying to be a bear) because I have a completely different build. I ... hope... I'm doing something right...I should put my build somewhere so you could critique it if you liked.

Abies
10-16-2008, 07:54 PM
Berserk is way more valuable though for multimob tanking. It allows your high threat maul to hit multiple targets. That is a big deal from a multimob threat situation. I think it probably is worth it overall, but thats a gut feel thing from having played around in beta with it.
Berserk only works for Mangle, not Maul. I guess that's what you meant.

Kheldar
10-17-2008, 03:06 AM
hmmm well i reckon i'm not going to be doing a massive amount of 5 mans between now and wrath so i'll take another look at a couple of different builds and finally allocate talents tonite !

thanks for the input.

Oiysters
10-17-2008, 04:12 AM
0/59/2 ftw for bear tanking. The way threat is working you won't need any threat from OoC before level 80, if you need it even then.

OoC is still the shiznit for kitty dps though.

Kheldar
10-17-2008, 07:34 AM
i dont think 0/59/2 is for me given my wow playing is not all 5 mans and is never any raiding.

i think i need to alter it a bit to allow me some balance between bear and kitty.

i'm also likely to be a slowish leveller post wrath due to RL limiting time so some kitty stuff is probably necessary for me incl OoC.

thanks for all the advice though nice to hear what other people are thinking.

Solarflash
10-17-2008, 08:11 AM
I have only tanked Kara and ZA (and a few heroics) since the patch, so no high end stuff yet, but I stayed out of the resto tree completely.

OoC vs Beserk....OoC might win, I emphasize might, because on the T5(ZA) trash content & T4 Bosses stuff I was getting hit hard enough or dodging enough to have almost perma rage, so OoC is waisted. That being said, Maul is by far the new lacerate! It generates sick threat. I was generating +1200 TPS pretty consistently. So I say take beserk for the instant uber threat on multiple targets. Swipe will hold off healer threat but eager AoE Dps will yank them off you if you don't pop beserk.

I also use the badge Idol which procs on mangle, so having no CD on the mangle is pretty nice. Its like a gaurenteed proc of +65 agility.

Another big decision is that OoC is deep in the resto tree and Furor is really a pretty useless PVE talent. You just should not be shifting that much and if you do, just enrage.

(ignore the talent build in my signature, it is no longer correct. I will update it shortly...61 points feral)

Annikk
10-17-2008, 11:37 AM
I also use the badge Idol which procs on mangle, so having no CD on the mangle is pretty nice. Its like a gaurenteed proc of +65 agility.

I am using that idol too, but are you sure it can re-proc in this way? Previously there was a hidden, internal 10 second cooldown. Has this now changed?


-Annikk

Claritondeus
10-17-2008, 01:52 PM
Maul is by far the new lacerate!

Is Maul still an 'on next hit' type cast? What does the tanking rotation look like now? Something like:

Berzerk, Maul (primary target), Mangle (primary and two other), Swipe, Swipe (to get some aoe threat to keep off healers), Mangle, Maul, Mangle? Is lacerate still used?

What's the key to keeping aggro on 4+ targets with all the crazy AoE going off? (it's been a while since I tanked on my poor resto druid and haven't been feral since the patch =/) ty

Kheldar
10-18-2008, 06:11 AM
took a beserk build in the end last nite.

0/52/9.

i love beserk - only tried it in cat so far doing some dailys but its great.

and infected wounds to is very nice.

gotta try some pvp soon to try out these new talents. also feral charge cat :)

Hypnotiq
10-18-2008, 02:35 PM
I have never noticed OoC proccing very often so I did not spec that route. I love berzerking which is epci for situations that you threat on multiple mobs or even unlimited mangles on a targe for quick threat. Also I donno if people use it but I have this macro that uses mangle/maul/lacerate back to back and it doesn't have any down time in between if mangle is down it will throw up lacerate. That my friends allows me to pull 2400 tps.

Also my spec is a kitty build so I do not have all the dodge abilities and I am pretty sure I did not pick up the armor upgrade. I do my job off offtanking Bloodboil/Shazraz/and Supremus. My spec is on armory. I am Moviefone from chogall.

Hypnotiq
10-18-2008, 02:37 PM
I also have glyph of the maul for my tanking. Maul will hit 1 other target. Does suck when people try to sheep around me but I always surround myself with good healers so sheep is unnecessary sometimes.

Kheldar
10-19-2008, 05:54 AM
yeah i am enjoying beserk.

pull lots of mobs and just kitty dps them all to death with half price moves :)

Goose
10-20-2008, 01:31 PM
the only time i thought furror was viable pve was in the following situation. Before a boss fight I'd shapeshift humanoid, cast regrowth, rejuv, then bear enrage, and run in for my FF, maul/mangle combo for initial threat. I **think** the added healing agro really gave me sick TPS plus extra healing. I base this on my baby tank was still wearing some blue gear and was still able to pull 1750 tps spike **prepatch**. but i heard a horrible rummor that self heals don't generate threat so maybe i just had good luck with crits. Either way the extra healing wasn't horrible. and furror helped give me extra rage when i initially ran in.

Solarflash
10-20-2008, 01:54 PM
Given the current threat build and rage consumption I think you are much better off with Beserk. Poping Beserk and spamming mangle actually builds threat and RAGE at the moment...I know it doesn't make much sense, but it does. I expect this to be nerfed soon, but for whatever reason (I think its the sick amount of crits) when I am tanking and pop Beserk, my rage bar is racing to full! I strongly reccomend staying out of the resto tree until Wrath if you want to main tank. OoC is very nice but VERY VERY expensive. 11 points that could be used in the feral tree to get to it. And all you are getting is lower shift costs and +rage on shift. Powershifting bears are done, stick the points in feral.

Rorgg
10-20-2008, 03:55 PM
Well, hold on there. You also get Naturalist and Furor on the way up the tree. Naturalist is a flat 10% damage -- and threat via damage boost. It's still a very good ability.

Furor's now a little iffier, but after playing around with it, I like it. There's a lot more overlap between tanking and dps gear now for most druids, and that means with a tank gear set, you can probably do reasonable DPS in catform when it's appropriate. With Furor, when you pop into catform, you now have a full energy bar and can go to town immediately rather than needing 10-15 seconds to ramp up into a DPS rotation. It's more of a PvP-heavy talent now than it used to be, and less vital, but it's not a waste.

Oiysters
10-20-2008, 06:45 PM
I will probably work my way up to OoC, but I won't get it until my last talent point at level 80 since my focus is tanking at this point.

Solarflash
10-21-2008, 11:49 AM
I am using that idol too, but are you sure it can re-proc in this way? Previously there was a hidden, internal 10 second cooldown. Has this now changed?


-Annikk


This still only can proc once every 10 secs, but is an almost gaurenteed proc when you are mangling every 1.5 secs. (or less w/ haste)

Kheldar
10-23-2008, 03:32 AM
yeah i do think furor and naturalist have their place and have got them for now in my build. well 9 points worth for now...

maybe i'll change to a more pure feral spec later.

still tempted to go oomkin for levelling after 13th although my dps wont be that great given my gear.

Oiysters
10-23-2008, 10:37 AM
My lazer chicken friends are having sooo much fun right now...kinda makes me want to go back to my feathery roots for a bit to check it out.

Kinda funny...on Tidewalker the other day I did 1270 dps in cat...with a 0/59/2 spec tanking spec...and still got absolutely crushed by our rogues, hunters, boomkins, ret pallies, etc...they did 50% more dps.

Rorgg
10-23-2008, 10:47 AM
If you're really specced out for tanking (inc. Glyph of Maul), you'll do more DPS in bear than cat on 2 or more targets, I think. I ran #2 on the DPS meter the other night, and I was in bear most of the evening. The Prot Warrior was feeling kind of ragestarved most of the evening, but on the single target bosses, I went kitty for him to shine.

Tankwhomee
10-23-2008, 08:47 PM
I went 3/5 Furor and 2/2 IMotW, as 3/5 furor is high enough to give kitty 60 energy, and more than 50/50 chance of having rage if shifting to bear. OOC procs more often now and is a free attack that does not use Energy or Rage, think Free Double Maul with glyph of maul!

I will have beserk by lvl 74, and that wont take long to get to, since I probably wont be doing heaps of group tanking while I level, I dont see this as a major problem. I am anticipating most of the instance runs worth doing will start from lvl 73 or so anyway.

Kheldar
10-24-2008, 03:04 AM
i'll probably respec anyway after 13th and maybe go with a proper kitty build for levelling and take OoC perhaps.

anyone know how useful/needed is OoC for oomkin build?

tlbj6142
10-25-2008, 03:33 PM
I went 3/5 Furor and 2/2 IMotW, as 3/5 furor is high enough to give kitty 60 energy,Actually you end up with 75 energy as you gain energy during the GCD that occurs after the shift.

Kheldar
10-26-2008, 07:26 AM
well was re-doing a few old instances cos the wonderfully implemented achievement system Blizz have introduced does not think i've been to places like SFK/SM etc etc

in SM Cath in the big room where u fight Mograine? and decided to just kill him despite only killing half a dozen of the mobs in the room - yet my old brain seemingly telling me that if u dont clear the room they all join the party when u attack the boss...

sure enough i get him and about 15 or so others.....bear...beserk and swipe ftw.

lol. fun.