View Full Forums : Does Haste work in Bear/Cat and how?


windsaber/windriss
11-20-2008, 04:32 PM
Does Haste work in Bear/Cat and how?

Also is this armor nerf going to hurt us bear tanks bad?

Thanks
Windsaber

skwidrific
11-20-2008, 04:44 PM
I'm gonna have to get back to you on the Haste benefit...

As far as the "armor nerf" goes, Tlbj posted an update to that (thanks man!) that says Survival of the Fittest is going to get a HUGE buff that should (in my opinion) make up for the incoming nerf, and will probably end up being a tad bit better for us ferals.

tlbj6142
11-20-2008, 04:51 PM
Haste is nearly worthless for cats since it doesn't affect our special attacks and the GCD can't get any lower than 1s. So, it only affects our white damage attack speed.

Haste isn't too bad of a stat for bear TPS since bears have slower attack speed and GCD. I wouldn't stack haste for bear TPS, but it isn't worthless like it is for cats.

Right now the up coming armor change seems to be a bit too vague to determine if it is good or bad. Many are saying it is a nerf for T7+ and a bit of a buff pre-T7. Though if they go back to the 400% bear mod rather than the current 370% (?) it comes out quite well. In short, we don't know the details and the change isn't on the PTR yet, so everyone thinks the sky is falling.

Allahanastar
11-24-2008, 01:35 PM
I think you'll see with the new changes coming to weapons, haste will have a point now. The weapon changes are going to amp our white damage and with a super fast attack speed it could be a significant jump in white damage.

As for our GCD, well 1sec is still better than 1.5sec. Remember rogues benefit heavily from haste, and they function similarly. Most of their attacks are instants.

tlbj6142
11-24-2008, 02:53 PM
As for our GCD, well 1sec is still better than 1.5sec. Remember rogues benefit heavily from haste, and they function similarly. Most of their attacks are instants.We already have a 1s GCD in cat form. And, I thought rogues benefited from haste because they could dual-weld.

Solarflash
11-24-2008, 03:07 PM
We already have a 1s GCD in cat form. And, I thought rogues benefited from haste because they could dual-weld.

I was under the impression we had a 1 sec attack speed (white dmg) and 1.5 sec GCD (special attacks) Thats why white damage sneaks in the middle regardless how fast I spam mangle!

Either way our DPS (sustainable) will always be restricted by energy rather than GCD. I would love to see a energy regen that scaled with haste for kitties.

Claritondeus
11-24-2008, 03:21 PM
I would love to see a energy regen that scaled with haste for kitties.

Thats a really interesting idea.

tlbj6142
11-24-2008, 03:32 PM
I was under the impression we had a 1 sec attack speed (white dmg) and 1.5 sec GCD (special attacks) Thats why white damage sneaks in the middle regardless how fast I spam mangle!Nope. Cats and Rogues have a 1s GCD, everyone else (including other Druid forms) has a 1.5s GCD. Cat white attacks are independent of our yellow attacks, that's why they "sneak in".

Allahanastar
11-24-2008, 05:18 PM
Are you sure? I could have sworn that Mangle was a 1.5 second cooldown. Sigh... back to the research sites....

s3Rgio
11-25-2008, 05:23 AM
mangle = 1 sec CD

tlbj6142
11-25-2008, 09:28 AM
mangle = 1 sec CDUntil recently, even in bear form mangle had a 1s GCD. Now it is 1.5s like it should be...

Allahanastar
11-25-2008, 01:56 PM
Mangle in Bear form has a 6 second cool down. But are you saying cat form is now 1.5 as well?

tlbj6142
11-25-2008, 02:40 PM
until a recent patch (2.6???) bear's mangle would only cause a 1s GCD not a 1.5s GCD (like all other bear attacks). Which would explain why you'd would always be waiting for mangle's cooldown (and not the GCD) after a couple of lacerates.

pre-patch...

Time attack
0.0 Mangle Bear
1.0 Lacerate
2.5 Lacerate
4.0 Lacerate
5.5 nothing
6.0 Mangle


Now....

time attack
0.0 Mangle Bear
1.5 Lacerate
3.0 Lacerate
4.5 Mangle bear (if you have iMangle) or Lacerate
6.0 Mangle bear (if you don't have iMangle)

Allahanastar
11-25-2008, 03:47 PM
Ok now I get what you're saying. *Inserts brain again...*

Solarflash
11-26-2008, 06:58 AM
Now....

time attack
0.0 Mangle Bear
1.5 Lacerate
3.0 Lacerate
4.5 Mangle bear (if you have iMangle) or Lacerate
6.0 Mangle bear (if you don't have iMangle)

Just curious, since patch 3.0, do bears Lacerate more than once? I have found I get much more threat/DPS from just one lacerate and then maul until the lacerate is needing a refresh. Has anyone else found this? I don't have any solid numbers to provide, and perhaps the increased DPS is just because maul hits 2x targets, but I seem to have less threat issues on single target fights without using lacerate (or using it only to activate R&T)

s3Rgio
11-26-2008, 07:49 AM
if you have no rage-issue then
why would you leave out lacerate?

mangle has a 4.5 CD (if skilled)
what are u doing in this time if not lacerate?
dont forget maul wont take a GCD
so u can use it without watching on other abilities.

tlbj6142
11-26-2008, 09:28 AM
I haven't followed the EJ stuff in a long time, but IIRC you don't need to use lacerate as often, but should use swipe and FFF.

So, mangle when it is available, keep lacerate stack up (refresh it every 7s), use swipe and FFF when you can. And maul with any leftover rage.

Oiysters
11-27-2008, 04:28 AM
I only use lacerate when I am tanking a boss. It's easy to quickly build a 5-stack and then keep it up. For multi-tanking it's just maul and swipe, I don't bother with mangle even.

s3Rgio
11-27-2008, 07:00 AM
I only use lacerate when I am tanking a boss. It's easy to quickly build a 5-stack and then keep it up. For multi-tanking it's just maul and swipe, I don't bother with mangle even.

same for me. 1 mangle at the start on primary target and then maul and swipe.

on bosses i feel the gap caused of the CD on bear-mangle with lacerate