View Full Forums : Healer mana nerf incoming

02-05-2009, 05:43 PM
My comments follow
As we have suggested, we have become concerned that mana regeneration is currently too powerful, especially for healers. We want players to have to keep an eye on mana. We don’t want you to go out of mana every fight, but running out of mana should be a very real risk for sloppy playing or attempting content that you aren’t yet ready for. When mana regeneration is trivial then certain parts of the game break down – classes that offer Replenishment are devalued, stats that offer mana regeneration are devalued, and spells that are efficient are neglected in preference to spells with high throughput.

Here are a list of changes you are likely to see in 3.1. They will be available to try out on the PTR. Mana regeneration is somewhat technical, so please bear with us.

* Regeneration while not casting (outside of the “five second rule”) will be decreased. We think that (1) the ability to cast heal over time spells and then sit back and (2) benefitting from a clearcasting proc that also gets you out of the five second rule both provide too much mana regeneration, even over short time periods.
* To make this change, we are reducing mana regeneration granted by Spirit across the board. However we are also boosting the effects of talents such as Meditation that increase regeneration while casting. The net result should be that your regeneration while casting will stay about the same, but your not-casting regeneration will be reduced. This change will have little impact on dps casters, since they are basically always casting.
* The specific talents and abilities being boosted are: Arcane Meditation, Improved Spirit Tap, Intensity, Mage Armor, Meditation, Pyromaniac and Spirit Tap. Yes this makes these “mandatory” talents even more mandatory, if such a thing is possible.
* Since paladins rely less on Spirit as a mana-regeneration stat, we have to address them in other ways. We don’t want to change Illumination or Replenishment. However, we are going to increase the healing penalty on Divine Plea from 20% to 50%. Divine Plea was originally intended to help Protection and Retribution paladins stay full on mana. It should be a decision for Holy paladins, not something that is automatically used every cooldown.
* In addition, we are also changing the way Spiritual Attunement works. In situations with a large amount of outgoing raid damage, as well as in PvP, this passive ability was responsible for more mana regeneration than we would like. We want to keep the necessary benefit it grants to tanking Protection paladins, while making it less powerful for Holy paladins in PvP or raid encounters with a lot of group damage.
* We are also taking a close look at clearcasting procs themselves. One likely outcome is to change them to an Innervate-like surge of mana so that the net benefit is the same, but healers won’t shift to out-of-casting regeneration so often.
* We balance around the assumption that even 10-player groups have someone offering Replenishment. To make this even easier on players we are likely to offer this ability to additional classes, as well as make sure that existing sources of Replenishment are more equitable.
* These changes are ultimately being done to bring the different healing classes more in line with each other as well as to give the encounter team more leeway when designing encounters, who can balance with these new mana regeneration numbers in mind. In a world with infinite healer mana, the only way to challenge healers is with increasingly insane amount of raid damage, so that global cooldowns become the limiting factor since mana fails to be. An example is the Eredar Twins in late Sunwell. We weren’t necessarily happy with that model, and this change hopefully allows us to move towards giving healing a more deliberate and thoughtful pace rather than frenetic spam.

02-05-2009, 05:44 PM
I'm not against this. I think there should be more to healing than just trying to nail #1 on the meter, like it used to be in BC before the changes to mana regen. Managing mana and being smart about healing is just going to make things more interesting.

02-05-2009, 07:02 PM
This is really an indirect nerf to DPS. IOW, DPS better get their act together, otherwise the healers will go OOM. Yet in the end the healers will get blamed.

Seems like that won't make for very happy healers....

02-06-2009, 12:01 PM
This is really an indirect nerf to DPS. IOW, DPS better get their act together, otherwise the healers will go OOM. Yet in the end the healers will get blamed.

Seems like that won't make for very happy healers....
Well, they are also giving Warlocks and Mages Replenish, so I don't really see this as hitting dps too hard. It will make healers more scarce though, as more healers will be necessary to defeat raid instances.

For example, with the best healers in our guild we can easily two-heal Naxx 10 and 5 heal Naxx 25. Will the mana regen nerf be substantial enough to force us back to 3 healers for Naxx 10 and 6 or 7 for Naxx 25? Tanks become quite abundant as a guild progresses because you don't need 5 tanks to do Naxx 25. Healers become scarce because you need more than 5 healers to do Naxx 25. It will interesting to see how it plays out.

02-06-2009, 01:19 PM
Do you think so? I know for me I don't blow through my mana bar twice on any fight in Naxx-10 or Naxx-25. Sometimes I don't even use innervate. We're not *that* advanced as a guild, we're pretty casual although our DPS has improved quite a lot.

We only just completed all the quarters in Naxx on heroic and haven't done the last 2 bosses upstairs.

02-06-2009, 05:33 PM
I'm just speculating, but it makes sense that if they materially nerf regen the only way to overcome the reduction in healing output is to stack more healers. Especially when they are saying that Ulduar will be substantially more difficult than Naxx.

Of course, if it's just a minor nerf then this is nothing more than a tempest in a teapot.

02-07-2009, 02:16 PM
Well, they are also giving Warlocks and Mages ReplenishAnd maybe Resto Druids??!!? (

02-07-2009, 04:23 PM
And maybe Resto Druids??!!? (
Oh, that could be so fun.

Btw tlbj, did your guild decide if they want to Bear, Tree or Moonkin yet?

02-08-2009, 10:59 AM
Here's a good write-up:

This rings true to me: We are also going to be keeping to tighter healing assignments. As S13 put it last night, “Tank healers will stay on tanks and just that.” Sniping heals will no longer be common practice, as we won’t be able to afford it. As for Innervate, which isn’t on the list for a buff and stands to be very greatly affected by the change, I’m expecting that it will still do at least a little something for us–half a mana bar maybe, as it might if you were now in greens with little to no spirit. We’ll probably be glyphing it and using it on ourselves only.

It also talks about those healers who glyphed/talented HT probably won't be able to keep that up.

02-08-2009, 12:34 PM
Btw tlbj, did your guild decide if they want to Bear, Tree or Moonkin yet?My guild doesn't "tell" us what to spec (which I really hate). That said, we seem to find found enough healers for our raids (we typically have 3 10-mans groups) and just about as many tanks. So, I've stayed feral for the time being. I think the original healing scare was due to thinking we'd need 3 healers per 10-man and 7+ for 25. Well, we are epic failures at 25-man and we need all the dps we can get so, we make due with 2 healers in 10-man.

I do think we need a moonkin as we don't have a single one. Would be nice if/when we try 25-man raids again (we haven't done well with 25-man).

We had 2 naxx runs last night (I didn't go), group 1 downed 2 bosses and group 2 got 1. That was only our 2nd attempt at naxx. I think last week (I didn't go) only made it thru 1 boss the first weekend on each of 3 teams.

02-10-2009, 10:02 AM
This "Revitalize" change they are making to Wild Growth looks to be a serious buff for Resto Druids. That talent also effects Rage, Runic power and Energy. Its really almost too good to be true if you ask me, i can't see this (in its current form) making it to live.

02-10-2009, 11:43 AM
I hope that doesn't mean we're relegated to spamming WG all the time. Then we'll be perma-slotted as raid healers.

02-10-2009, 04:12 PM
Either way doesn't make much difference, i think. Raid healing or otherwise i don't personally see a difference. i usually end up doing everything. Yeah ehaling is boring atm so i try to make it less so by not pigeon-holing myself into one job, plus i don't trust many other healers to be worth a damn.

02-11-2009, 10:52 AM
plus i don't trust many other healers to be worth a damn.
Aw! Fortunately we've got a lot of good healers in my guild.

I was in a PUG yesterday though with my enhancement shaman and the Tree was terrible. He didn't even realize I had died and went AFK without ressing me while waiting for the next portal in H VH. Doh!

02-11-2009, 11:27 AM
He didn't even realize I had died and went AFK without ressing me while waiting for the next portal in H VH. Doh!


02-11-2009, 12:03 PM
Lol, why is it that folks think afk'ing in a timed instance is acceptable?