View Full Forums : Can't Let Go?


Destinae
05-08-2009, 03:25 PM
Just a curiosity for all of you other lovely druids out there:

Do you ever find, when playing your new secondary spec, that you feel the urge to switch back to your main spec and "show'em how it's done"?

Example:

I ran a few instances (non-heroic) to practice healing. A good portion of the time I found myself itching to tank, rather than heal. One of the tanks I ran with was a druid (normally resto), that was trying to learn to tank/gear up to be more versatile for his guild. While we were chatting along the way, we both commented on it- that he would see a DPS take a bit of splash damage and feel compelled to heal them, and when I saw a DPS pull aggro...I had a strange urge to taunt it off of them...(alas, trees are squeeshy)...

Do any of you guys ever get that same feeling?

tlbj6142
05-09-2009, 02:36 PM
Yes, I'm easily top DPS'r in my guild and when I play with an allied guild as well. Yet, there are 1-2 sub-par tanks in the mix which really annoy me to no end. Mostly because I can't do max DPS because they can't hold agro even after 5m have elapsed in the fight (very sad if ask me).

That's when I wish I could just push them aside and tank. But I have to assume their DPS is just as bad, so I'm not sure as a guild/raid we are better off.

Solarflash
05-11-2009, 07:21 AM
hehe, I did that this weekend.

I was healing and Pugging Emalon (Not reccomended) and was in my 3rd or 4th PUG this week trying to get this done. The Offtank's (which is the hardest job) on my server can't for the life of them manage to ever pickup the new ad after one is killed....I don't know what the struggle is with this, but I finally got annoyed and went bear, made one of the DPS go healing. One shotted him...rawr.

tlbj6142
05-11-2009, 09:08 AM
ever pickup the new ad after one is killed....I don't know what the struggle is with this,Was he a DK or pally? I find those tanks with an AoE ground effect seem to never use their range taunt ability. The only time I see them use a taunt is their AoE taunt which, of course, causes a wipe every time they do it (because they pull the boss as well as the adds they are trying to collect).

Destinae
05-11-2009, 09:30 AM
Agreed TLB. Though, I'm finding that a lot of pallies just don't use consecrate anymore, which means when I'm healing, I'm getting my face torn off by errant adds that they could have easily picked up by dropping consecrate in the beginning.

Emalon is a tough fight...regular and heroic. Seems like folks have trouble targeting the charged add.

Over the weekend we had a tank that wouldn't move Maiden (H:HoS) out of the void holes...so melee DPS was dying too quickly for me to keep up heals on everyone. It was sad. It made me want to pay a healer to come in so I could show him how to tank her...it was very difficult to fail as a healer because the tank + 2 melee DPS were taking excruciating amts of damage from the void zones. Rolling WG's and rejuvs on everyone still wasn't enough to keep them + the tank up. Grr! I ended up stacking 3x LB on the tank so that when we all got stunned, that would tick him back to a reasonable amt of life, since he wouldn't get out of the giant black hole....LOL

I will say though, that tank and the warlock from his guild were the KINDEST folks I have EVER...EVER met in all my life in WoW. We wiped a bunch of times, mainly because of my failing at heals (still learning) and they were cool with it...O.O I even got invited to join their guild and get more healing practice in...and if I join them, they're going to help me gear up for raid healing...O.O NICE hm?

Solarflash
05-11-2009, 09:35 AM
Was he a DK or pally? I find those tanks with an AoE ground effect seem to never use their range taunt ability. The only time I see them use a taunt is their AoE taunt which, of course, causes a wipe every time they do it (because they pull the boss as well as the adds they are trying to collect).


Wow!!!! You must be psycic! You hit it right on the head!!! He also never would change target to the "Charged" ad which makes life rough for folks like me, who assume they can just use the tanks focus...(my fail. Never assume someone else is doing the right thing)

It was a Pally...cause you know, pallies are the best AoE Tanks....right??? :bs:

Bears are the #1 choice for Emalon Ads!

tlbj6142
05-11-2009, 09:55 AM
We had a pally OT assigned to pick-up adds on something in Ulduar and the guy just sucked at it. After he would QQ in raid about it being difficult to pick up one on the other side of the room, I sent him a tell asking, "don't you have a ranged taunt?". He replied, yeah two of them. We still wiped on whatever we were trying.

skwidrific
05-11-2009, 01:44 PM
Yea, i took over as MT on a hDTK run last night, even thought it was my first time tanking in about 5 months... Warrior tank we pugged was uber fail... I've been trying to build up my tanking set since dual specs were implemented and having a rough time with it. My kitty set does okay for tanking heroics, but i definitely need to reconnect with the bear in me. There were a couple mobs that slipped through my swipr rotation and gave the healer hell. We get to the last boss, and my Keystone ring drops, but the fail warrior needed on it and won the roll... ah well...

like you said, tlb... im at the top of the charts on dps (and usually by a landslide in 5-mans, and very accustomed to it)... I'm looking forward to OT'ing in Naxx25 and switching to dps for the fights where it's not necessary and clawing face... :)

skwidrific
05-11-2009, 01:45 PM
and PLEASE don't get me started on Emalon :(

Solarflash
05-11-2009, 02:34 PM
and PLEASE don't get me started on Emalon :(


Lol!!!!

"Emalon, the easiest encounter you can't PUG!"

Worst part, I got him down in 25 man, the t8.5 pants dropped for my mage, I roll a 79, and lost to 95, by the mage doing 2k DPS.....grr.:mad2:

...and I am currenlty still in iLvl 187 pants....full epic otherwise, but can't seem to get those darn pants to drop. ~35 EoV from just buying the Valorous ones, but we'll see if I can get Emalon to cough up a nicer pair first. We clear to Freya each week too, so I am guessing there is somthing in there that I could use as soon as my dice stop sleeping on the job!

Kheldar
05-13-2009, 02:50 AM
nop;e i have to say that after 4 plus years of being feral tank since day 1 of wow that i dont actually miss is not.

which is a shame as i got my Trickery a few weeks ago !

much less stress being a dps pwning the dps meters :p

not got my 2nd spec set up yet - planning on resto but currently kitty for some pvp, although i cba with pvp these days so i think its back to resto and give healing an easy heroic like uk a go.

s3Rgio
05-13-2009, 02:59 AM
nop;e i have to say that after 4 plus years of being feral tank since day 1 of wow that i dont actually miss is not.

which is a shame as i got my Trickery a few weeks ago !

much less stress being a dps pwning the dps meters :p

not got my 2nd spec set up yet - planning on resto but currently kitty for some pvp, although i cba with pvp these days so i think its back to resto and give healing an easy heroic like uk a go.

Then change your SIG, you betrayer of feralhood!!!!! :axe:

Kheldar
05-13-2009, 04:00 AM
Then change your SIG, you betrayer of feralhood!!!!! :axe:
zomg yes !

:eek:

sorry s3R, i realise now that my 'quick' foray into the 'Way of the Oomkin' has turned into something much deeper.....

we ran HoS-H last night which included a mage i know whose raids and has done all naax/eye etc and i managed to outdps him which was pleasing. although the shammy who came who also raids was doing serious dps with her gear. she did 2.7k overall over the run with me on 2.2k.

Destinae
05-13-2009, 09:39 AM
Then change your SIG, you betrayer of feralhood!!!!! :axe:

:rolling: Hahahahaha!

That just made my ENTIRE day! Thank you Serg and Khel.

Much love to you both!

BTW - I'm always proud when a fellow druid out DPS's a mage. At least in my experience, the mages have seemed a little OP. So I'm still proud....(even if you are a betrayer of feralhood)...<3

tlbj6142
05-13-2009, 09:40 AM
Last night I ran 10-man naxx with 6 guildies and 4 pug. One pug was a feral tank (off spec, primarily a 25-man ulduar tree) with so-so gear. She had nearly zero issues holding aggro when I when all out. Sure I had to hold back a couple times, but whenever I have our DK or Pally tank, I have to play with 3 paws tied behind my back. It was so refreshing, plus I didn't have to mangle...

Is it just that much easier for Ferals to generate threat than other tanks???

Destinae
05-13-2009, 09:59 AM
I don't necessarily think it's that we have an easier time generating threat as much as it's that we're sort of a class that lacks the requirement for a specific sort of gear. (And as scary as it is to admit it- I think we're looking at another nerf...we're maybe a "smidge" OP).

Since we don't have to aim for specific stat goals really (like +Def, etc), I think it gives us more places to add attack power and other threat generation. I think it's just a benefit of being a hybrid. And, tbh, knowing how to play your class.

I know of both a pally and a DK tank that no matter what you do, aside from a taunt, you can NOT pull aggro from them. We've all tried. Even the best DPS on a multiple mob trash pull- targeted on anything but the tank's main target - still can't pull aggro from them.

Besides...what's scarier? Somebody standing there, trembling in fear behind a big shield, a sword and thick plate armor...

OR...

A big, ferocious bear with big bad claws, big bad teeth and a whole lotta RAWR?

Yeah. Bears. FTW!

tlbj6142
05-13-2009, 10:08 AM
we're sort of a class that lacks the requirement for a specific sort of gear. I think is the primary reason. If you pick up any non-SP leather item you "automatically" get the right stats to do threat and mitigation. Sure you could gem/enchant it too much in one direction, but having the base gear give you everything you need helps quite a bit. All you need to do now is press 2-3 buttons and you are a "good" tank.

I suspect DK, Pallies and Warriors (especially at early levels) have to be so worried about +def that they end up wearing sub-par gear ("I have to keep these two blue items so I'm above the +def cap). So, when they mash their 2-3 buttons they don't generate the threat they need.

I will say that in my circle of players I'm probably the only one that can pull threat on those sub-par tanks. There is a mage that does, but I think that is more of an issue with starting too soon. Plus mage's get another 30% threat buffer that I don't since I'm melee.

We do have one pally tank, that if I allow him a good head start (5 "real" seconds after he has positioned the boss), I very, very rarely have threat issues. But I know, he knows what he is doing in his talent spec, gear and button mashing. I'm not so sure the sub-par tanks even have 1 out of 3 "correct". Bears can almost blindly get all 3 correct just by guessing.

Destinae
05-13-2009, 10:40 AM
We still have to achieve the balance of survivability and threat generation. I've met some amazing tanks, warriors, pallies and DKs and other bears too. I think we have it a "little" easier, but only because we don't have a defense cap to meet.

Maybe it's just how a bear is built that makes it easier to generate threat. We don't have to worry about our weapon skills really. We just walk up and claw stuff.

But let's not whisper too loudly about bears being OP...I love it!

tlbj6142
05-13-2009, 11:19 AM
We still have to achieve the balance of survivability and threat generation.Not really, threat generation is all but free for us as our gear gives it us those stats passively. And the vast majority of it comes from our weapon. You'd have to go out of your way to nerf your threat stats as a bear. You could gem/enchant all +sta and still have really nice threat for all but the most aggressive DPS'rs.

It seems as though the other 3 tanks don't get "easy mode gear selection". We do. And outside of 2-3 must have talents (which don't really have cryptic descriptions like some talents have), you can close your eyes and pick a good bear spec. Do the other tanks have it so easy?

We have 3 buttons (Maul, mangle, swipe) you need to push to be an "OK" tank (2 if you macro /maul /swipe like I do). Do the other tanks have it that easy? I really think I could push one button (my /maul /swipe macro) and handle 90% of the threat issues I'd ever run into.

skwidrific
05-13-2009, 11:36 AM
can't seem to get those darn pants to drop.

reminds my of my high school years... heh... but i digress

funny how the scrubs barely scraping by on the dps seem to get the luckiest rolls :(

Destinae
05-13-2009, 11:46 AM
0_0 Skwid! :lmao:

(best. thread. ever.)

I guess you're right, ftmp Tlb. But I've healed a heavy stam bear and it was a nightmare. He didn't put out enough threat for the dps we had with us (which was...mediocre at best, but still yanked threat an awful lot even after giving him a full 3-5 seconds to get aggro). He was a little harder to keep alive. Filling his HP bar was a huge drain on my little mana pool. So I mean, yeah, 40k HP is great...but if it gimps you otherwise, you're not a very well balanced bear. For most bears, who have even a basic understanding of how the bear works though- I will absolutely agree- it's hard to screw it up.

My biggest issue with threat generation is rage starvation- which seems to have been helped a little by dropping Primal Gore and picking up Omen of Clarity again. I still find myself rageless during some fights...I'm still tweaking things a bit though. It's slowly improving =D

Solarflash
05-13-2009, 12:49 PM
0_0 Skwid! :lmao:

(best. thread. ever.)

I guess you're right, ftmp Tlb. But I've healed a heavy stam bear and it was a nightmare. He didn't put out enough threat for the dps we had with us (which was...mediocre at best, but still yanked threat an awful lot even after giving him a full 3-5 seconds to get aggro). He was a little harder to keep alive. Filling his HP bar was a huge drain on my little mana pool. So I mean, yeah, 40k HP is great...but if it gimps you otherwise, you're not a very well balanced bear. For most bears, who have even a basic understanding of how the bear works though- I will absolutely agree- it's hard to screw it up.

My biggest issue with threat generation is rage starvation- which seems to have been helped a little by dropping Primal Gore and picking up Omen of Clarity again. I still find myself rageless during some fights...I'm still tweaking things a bit though. It's slowly improving =D


Wow, one of those things that didn't sound so dirty in my head!!!:eek:

As for Rage starvation, I have resorted to keeping an ad beating on me (I know, could be taken the wrong way too) during situations where rage is hard to come by. For example, we don't kill ads when Razorscale lands, but I need at least 1 hitting me so I can DPS on the dragon. I just work a swipe into my rotation to keep threat up, and we get an extra DPS on the boss! Also, our MT for Decon, will taunt a pummler off me (OT) during the Heart phase so he can dominate the heart while its exposed without going rage starved.

Swapping ads can be a bit tricky though if your tanks are very familiar with the group.

tlbj6142
05-13-2009, 01:19 PM
As for Rage starvation, I have resorted to keeping an ad beating on meI do the same thing with trash. Once they reach 5-10% (depending on how quickly they are dieing) I stop using yellow attacks and just let them fill up my rage bar for the next pull.

And for boss pulls, now that FFF generates quite a bit more threat, I don't feel I need to slam yellow attacks draining my rage bar in those initial seconds. FFF-->Mangle-->Maul is about all you need to "feel" safe.

Destinae
05-13-2009, 02:17 PM
I've been doing the same thing (although, not in raids, sadly enough), where I've kept an add hitting me to keep a steady rage bar, while also just using "low cost" moves to keep everything focused on me instead of my squishy lil friends.

Leave it to Skwid to turn the world into a sinful place...

Kheldar
05-14-2009, 03:13 AM
..

Kheldar
05-14-2009, 03:30 AM
:rolling: Hahahahaha!

That just made my ENTIRE day! Thank you Serg and Khel.

Much love to you both!

BTW - I'm always proud when a fellow druid out DPS's a mage. At least in my experience, the mages have seemed a little OP. So I'm still proud....(even if you are a betrayer of feralhood)...<3
hush Des :twak:

run along and post some more Des n00b stories :elfgrin:

i will have to update my sig ! :redface:

yes i was muchos overjoyed to outdps him in a 5 man. obviously i want to see me do it a few more times to prove he was not having a bad day but to see I could do that with my non raiding gear is :band:

it difficult to know how i compare to most people I know cos they all run raids. but a pally we run with does about 3k dps in our 5 mans, a rogue the same and that shammy the other night 2.7k.



Leave it to Skwid to turn the world into a sinful place...
well its no surprise, given the name he's obviously from Skwid Row :D

s3Rgio
05-14-2009, 03:36 AM
First of all:
A good warri, dk, paladin can dish out enormous amounts of thread on single-targets. They are not as strong at druids (palas come really close), but the have other utilities in tanking. dk, palas are betters stationary AOE-tankers.
Warries are currently... well.... not at the top. :rolleyes:


We have 3 buttons (Maul, mangle, swipe) you need to push to be an "OK" tank (2 if you macro /maul /swipe like I do). Do the other tanks have it that easy? I really think I could push one button (my /maul /swipe macro) and handle 90% of the threat issues I'd ever run into.

that's why some druid-tanks are worst then others on single-targets. :D

for the most effective tanking (thread and mitigation) it's a little more than that.

Rotation without Imp. Mangle:
- Maul permanently
FFF->Mangle->Demo Roar->2xLacerate->Mangle->3xLacerate->Mangle

From here on use Mangle on CD, keep Lacerate at 5 stacks, use FFF on CD, keep Demo Roar up and the rest is swipe!

I think it's a pretty complex rotation when i look at rotations of other tanks.

tlbj6142
05-14-2009, 09:32 AM
that's why some druid-tanks are worst then others on single-targets. :D If I'm on adds I just spam swipe and hit iDR every 30s or so.

For single targets, I move my key bindings around a bit. So, my lacerate key is my "go to" key and my maul key becomes my maul/swipe macro. So, I just mash those 2 keys. And when Mangle is off cooldown I hit it. And every few seconds I hit my FFF (instead of another lacerate). Throw in an iDR every 30-40s as well.

We really do have it easy, but, then, I really have no idea what the other tanks have to do. And if you are really worried about threat on a particular fight, just open with Berserk. If you do that, you can do it again 3m later. Honestly, that's probably my least used tanking button. I always forget about it. Barkskin, lifeblood (herbalist thingy), SI, FR all get used. But Berserk not so much. Not sure why. Probably because I so rarely feel challenged threat wise...

Destinae
05-15-2009, 09:09 AM
hush Des :twak:

run along and post some more Des n00b stories

K first of all...Ow!

Second of all...is that the only reason you love me these days is noob stories? I've been working on leveling alts, tbh. No real noob stories that I can think of, other than having my void walker out when I was being "run through" Stocks the other night...it = death for both of us. Great fun. Oh, and didn't soul stone myself. WOOT! Had to run ALL the way back from Elwynn. Thank goodness for patient friends...lol

Kheldar
05-15-2009, 11:09 AM
K first of all...Ow!

Second of all...is that the only reason you love me these days is noob stories? I've been working on leveling alts, tbh. No real noob stories that I can think of, other than having my void walker out when I was being "run through" Stocks the other night...it = death for both of us. Great fun. Oh, and didn't soul stone myself. WOOT! Had to run ALL the way back from Elwynn. Thank goodness for patient friends...lol
ofc not Des, I love you anyway :texla:

you have more patience than me - the thought of re-doing questing for alts is a nitemare worse than anything.

Destinae
05-15-2009, 01:02 PM
Well, it's not "great" fun, but it keeps me from being instantly overwhelmed when I log in on the druid. At least on my alts I can just quest and relax and do what I need to do without logging in to 10 thousand whispers of folks that need a tank or a healer for this, that, or the other thing.

So while I might not thoroughly enjoy questing like I did the first time...it's more relaxing than being bombarded within 2 seconds of logging in =)