View Full Forums : The 'worst dps ever in a heroic' thread....


Kheldar
05-26-2009, 02:52 AM
had a bit of time yesterday as the wife had friend+kids down so i was taking advantage and getting more wow time in....

ended up doing 3 heroics...almost unheard of for me to have that much time.....

we started with a quick UK. had to pug a single dps for it and had a rogue ask to come along so off we went....

omg was he a pain, he had to be about 10. the tank kept saying in g 'he's annoying me' 'lets kick him and find someone else', the hunter i know who came was /w me that she wanted to kill him and even the priest i know who healed was doing the same thing calling him a 'right tit'.....

he kept coming out with stupid comments. kept jumping around stealthed all over the place. before we had even go to the first boss he's asking for dps meters. then as we get further in he keeps saying lets go to nexus (daily) next !

so come the end of the run he'd needed just about all the boss loot, a blue dagger, plus the epic crossbow from Ingvar and then comes the dps meter link......

i managed my usualish 2k dps, hunter around 1.4k (still dont know why so low given raid gear but that's another story...) and the tank did about 980dps (no idea if that's ok given class/talents/gear).

the rogue ? 678 dps and about 700k damage the whole run :lmao: :lmao:

and he still goes on about going to the daily heroic with us.....i kept my cool and just said you should gear up before coming to heroics and he then just left ! ofc it could have been his talents ? or lets face it a complete lack of skill :wavey: :wavey:

i've not ever done a heroic with such a poor dps

Nellie
05-26-2009, 08:14 AM
the rogue ? 678 dps and about 700k damage the whole run
That is pathetic. That's a level of suck that must take some pretty serious effort to achieve

Did a run back in TBC days with a hunter that I'd briefly looked over "ok blues and the odd purple, should be fine" sort of thing before we started. Soon becomes clear that he's pulling about 1/3rd of the DPS that I'd have expected for that level. Look at his talents, they look fine, could do with a tweak, but nothing major. Go back to his gear and look again. Slowly begins to dawn on me that ALL his blue/purple stuff is resto Shammy gear. "because it was blue so was better than my quest greens, right?"

tlbj6142
05-26-2009, 09:43 AM
That is pathetic. That's a level of suck that must take some pretty serious effort to achieveIt is more common than you think. While many may have an OK spec, they don't know what "rotation" they should be using, what gear they should be using (fast weapon? slow weapon?, hit cap? etc.) they then cripple themselves by playing on a laptop while it sits on their lap on the couch in front of the TV with 3 children running around using the touch pad for control. All over some crappy wifi connection. And they have all their graphics set to high because it works find in Dalaarn, but the moment any thing happens in an instance they drop to 10 FPS. That's how you get anything less than 1K DPS. Of course, they always blame someone else or their gear. I honestly think you just might be able to get 1K DPS naked with just about any class if you know what you are doing.

That was my first guild outside of a small group of players. I finally got tired of holding their hands because they'd scream at you if you offered to help.

Solarflash
05-26-2009, 10:48 AM
I honestly think you just might be able to get 1K DPS naked with just about any class if you know what you are doing.


I can tell you a level 80 FFB Mage can do ~1.6k DPS on a targeting dumby in IF Naked! (Self buffed / and fully glyphed)

To be fair, I was using max DPS rotations and I have more raid experience than most. But there is no reason for any +Lvl 75 to do <1k DPS. Most lvl 70 raiders were north of 1k DPS! :blow:

tlbj6142
05-26-2009, 12:21 PM
Most lvl 70 raiders were north of 1k DPS!My first 2-3 Naxx/10 runs were with a group in which only 1 maybe 2 of the 6 DPS'rs broke 1K. It was painful. But they did have 50 pets and the explorers achievement.

Solarflash
05-26-2009, 01:15 PM
My first 2-3 Naxx/10 runs were with a group in which only 1 maybe 2 of the 6 DPS'rs broke 1K. It was painful. But they did have 50 pets and the explorers achievement.


Lol!!!! :D

Anyone else use the "achievements" opposite of their intended purpose? Instead of being impressed when someone has lots of them, I just assume that means no one wanted them in raids, so they had lots of time to kill!

I suppose thats not fair either though. Lots of good raiders do achievements too.

tlbj6142
05-26-2009, 02:12 PM
Yes, people with pet achievements should not be allowed to raid. I wonder if those "are they ready" addons scan achievements looking for obvious signs of idiocy and flag the toon accordingly.

Kyane
05-26-2009, 04:15 PM
Hey now, my shaman has the 50 pets achievement, and I've raided solid from pre-BC though BC & Nax in WotLK ( I've since hung up my raiding boots ).

Kheldar
05-27-2009, 03:37 AM
from memory this person was assassination spec. but i admit to not knowing anything really about the other classes - ie to the degree that i know anything their talent trees and could say what is a good build for raids or dps or healing or heroics etc

all i can do is try to use wow heroes quickly to get an idea of if someone is in too many greens for heroics or has a full ilvl 213 set and we need to grab them fast!

achievements - i have the view that someone will a lot of them and i mean a lot needs to go get a RL :p

it really annoys me in heroics if we have a pug person or 2 who suddenly pipes up can we do the achievement - i'm always like 'what achievement' ? i just want to complete the instance and if that means we do an achievement then fine. but i dont run heroics to complete achievements. don't get me wrong i've done a few of them - but a couple we got without even knowing it existed....like the one for the big golem boss in HoL another I forget the name of.

what was even funnier was that last night we were trying to find a healer for ages for the daily to Gundrak, and 'the' rogue /w me asking if we need dps......i had to fight back the retort that sprang to mind about if we did why would we ask you and just said no thanks!!

ok a couple more class dps questions as i know you are all fountains of knowledge :

How does a DK in reasonable but not exceptional gear who is the tank for heroics manage to do 1800 dps ? (our normal tank who is also a DK and has an almost complete set of ilvl 200/213 epics does about 850-950 dps?)

in our first run with him i was learning how much threat and how quickly he generated it from an aeo perspective so i was doing less hurricane than normal and he did more damage than me !! although i was still at my usualish 2k or so dps ? i was amazed and bewildered...it was like omg DK's are OP if he can do that !

is it down to talents ? the one major difference i noticed from my dps perspective is that our tank always puts down some aoe move that's a red circle ? whereas this new one does not.....

Mage - what level of dps do raid geared mages usually hit ? done a couple with someone recently whose raided solid in BC and is now in Uldaur and i'm surprised to be closeish to him....2.2kdps for me and he on 2.4k last nite ? have other classes closed the gap on mages?

I know a pally/shammy and rogue who are either very well geared or pretty well geared - ie all epics its just the ilvl that differers and they do from 2.6k to 3.2k dps in a heroic ? i have no chance to keep up or even get close.....the rogue esp is amazing over 3k dps everytime we run with him. he says his build is diff to what forums say you need - he's mentioned doing a lot with fan of knives. but different or not the proof is in his performance...at least to a non-raider like me.....so unless you raiding people say your rogues top 5k.....

tlbj6142
05-27-2009, 09:45 AM
How does a DK in reasonable but not exceptional gear who is the tank for heroics manage to do 1800 dps ? (our normal tank who is also a DK and has an almost complete set of ilvl 200/213 epics does about 850-950 dps?)Our DK MT has the same issue. In 10-mans he barely does 900-1K DPS, which of course means I pull agro doing white damage (I think our pallies now have a HoS rotation to keep my threat down).:uptosomet I've complained to the GL several times about it. Last night in Naxx/25 we had a pally tank do MT whenever threat was an issue (burn down first boss of four horsemen, etc.).

From what little I understand of DKs, I'm told if they are daul-wielding weapons (because they need the extra +def to be uncritable) they have issues with threat. The have to use a 2H otherwise threat is an issue. This, of course, assumes they know what buttons to push and have the right talent build.

Solarflash
05-27-2009, 11:17 AM
How does a DK in reasonable but not exceptional gear who is the tank for heroics manage to do 1800 dps ? (our normal tank who is also a DK and has an almost complete set of ilvl 200/213 epics does about 850-950 dps?)


Also, don't forget that melee damage is directly affected by mob armor / level. Heroic mobs are significanlty less armored than raid mobs. And as the raid content scales, so do the mobs.

Most of our melee DPS was doing 3.5-4k DPS in Naxx25, but now only doing 2.8-3k in Ulduar 10. (buffs play into this too)

Kheldar
05-28-2009, 03:49 AM
tlb : whats the right talent build for a DK tank ?

i have to say i dont have problems pulling mobs off him....as mentioned he always puts down some move that is a red circle of aoe on the floor and once that's been down for a couple seconds or so i just open up with hurricane and burn everything down. sometimes i get close on a mob but rarely.

i'll check out the 2 dk's and see if got different builds for tanking and if one is 2h or dual wield etc

Solar : i'm only talking about heroics as i don't raid.

Nellie
05-28-2009, 08:09 AM
Yes, people with pet achievements should not be allowed to raid. I wonder if those "are they ready" addons scan achievements looking for obvious signs of idiocy and flag the toon accordingly.
Our best Warlock has more pets than I even knew existed in the bloody game, he's always dragging out a walking pancake or something. :D

Kheldar
05-28-2009, 09:00 AM
Our best Warlock has more pets than I even knew existed in the bloody game, he's always dragging out a walking pancake or something. :D

i just always bring out my Panda in Og or Dalaran or in a 5 man and wait for the /w about where you get that from or love the panda or that's a cool pet.

:D

Nellie
05-28-2009, 09:20 AM
I'll stick to 'Loque on the huntard, although he's not so rare anymore so i might have to get the queen wasp out a bit more now she's untameable.

Kheldar
05-29-2009, 07:53 AM
well we had a good grp last nite and got a fairly early start.

after running a couple we lost one person but a guildie mage would come if it was quick as they only had a small amount of time.

against my better judgement someone said VH ! However with good dps.....ie lowest being about 1.4k (newish 80 guild alt priest) and the best a rogue doing closer to 3k it was a breeze.

ofc it helped we got what i call the Sethhek Halls boss and the one that is a big floating head/monster.

Its a shame that badge rewards from heroics now are fewer than before and not many proper armour slots :( also some people we know have to be a little bored now to run a 5 man with us cos for them they have absolutely no upgrade potential to gear nor do they need the badges :(

I'm actually partially similar in that badge loot and heroic loot is not going to improve my oomkin gear set more than a smidgen. its only useful for me for getting some resto badge loot...worked out i need about 225 badges for all the resto gear i want.

tlbj6142
05-29-2009, 08:34 AM
Its a shame that badge rewards from heroicsI agree. Blizzard dropped the ball in LK when it comes to badge rewards. It really hurts the casual players if you ask me. But I guess their answer is, go pug Naxx, it is "accessible".

I know you don't raid, but really go ahead and try a boss or two in the spider wing. Might be a bit of fun. Don't need to make it a 4 hour session. Put a time limit on it. "We stop at the 2 hour mark".

FWIW, I did read the Blizzard is making another 5-man in the next patch(?).

Kheldar
05-29-2009, 09:23 AM
I just dont like doing pugs. a large part of the enjoyment for me is playing wow with people i know and like.

doing a pug and the problems is the reason for this thread ! :p

we are almost considering Naax. we could just about get 10 people together.

although class balance may not be ideal....

2 tanks
2 healers
Any 6 dps ?

Yes i have heard the same re: a new 5 man in the next big patch - someone mentioned 6 months

Solarflash
05-29-2009, 09:58 AM
I just dont like doing pugs. a large part of the enjoyment for me is playing wow with people i know and like.

doing a pug and the problems is the reason for this thread ! :p

we are almost considering Naax. we could just about get 10 people together.

although class balance may not be ideal....

2 tanks
2 healers
Any 6 dps ?

Yes i have heard the same re: a new 5 man in the next big patch - someone mentioned 6 months

If most are new to Naxx, I definatley reccomend 3 healers/2tanks/5DPS. I have 2-healed before, but your healers will be stressed if they aren't in i213 stuff.

There aren't many "DPS races" until you get to the later wings (Thaddius is the only tough one, and can be done with relative ease with 5 DPS in 10-man)

tlbj6142
05-29-2009, 10:10 AM
Regarding healers for naxx, we had really good healers and tanks, but crappy, really crappy, DPS (like only 1-2 broke 1K) and didn't have issues with spider and plague wings using 2 healers. On some cases, we really only had 1.5 healers because one of the healers is nearly useless.

Again, that was for 1-2 wings (spider and plague). I never made it to the harder stuff with that guild. None of them would have had i213 stuff as we didn't run 25 man content.

My current guild uses 3 healers. But, I think, they are a bit subpar compared to my old guilds, but our DPS is far, far better.

You should have at least 1-2 ranged DPS for a couple fights in spider and plague wings.

FWIW, if you do progress into Naxx/10. I would do spider, plague, military (sometimes called DK) and then construct wings (in that order). The construct wing is by-far the least forgiving and most annoying part of Naxx.

Regarding pugs, maybe you could join a Naxx/10 or Naxx/25 as "the pug". That way you don't feel so PO'd if stuff fails. Plus you'd get a bit of experience with place.

Solarflash
05-29-2009, 10:16 AM
Regarding healers for naxx, we had really good healers and tanks, but crappy, really crappy, DPS (like only 1-2 broke 1K) and didn't have issues with spider and plague wings using 2 healers. On some cases, we really only had 1.5 healers because one of the healers is nearly useless.

Again, that was for 1-2 wings (spider and plague). I never made it to the harder stuff with that guild.

My current guild uses 3 healers. But, I think, they are a bit subpar compared to my old guilds, but our DPS is far, far better.


/hug Tlbj

<1k DPS = Beserk Raid Leader....How did you get past the self healing gargoyles in the Plaque trash???

Most bosses in Naxx get harder the longer they are up (call it a soft DPS race) There are things like more ads each time a phase changes, or faster and faster debuff applications etc.

The fights I think will take 3 healers would be Maexx, Heigan (1 will die), Lotheb in the first two wings.

tlbj6142
05-29-2009, 10:22 AM
<1k DPS = Beserk Raid Leader....How did you get past the self healing gargoyles in the Plaque trash???Good question. Maybe folks were more focused since they are really just single pull trash. Though you need an OT.

Any time the fight was anything more than stand still and tank-n-spank, their DPS sucked.

Kheldar
05-29-2009, 11:24 AM
cheers for replies :)