View Full Forums : Living Seed, do you use it?


Nellie
06-30-2009, 07:22 AM
Just curious as I'm playing around with a 17/54 resto spec at the moment that ignores living seed in favour of gaining the 3% Haste bonus from the Balance tree.

I dropped Living seed based on a couple of WWS reports that suggested with my method of healing that I was only getting between 30-40 procs across a 3-4 hour raid. I know it's relatively difficult to quantify how useful it is, but at that rate, it didn't seem worth the three points for a heal that only applies every now and again, in an uncontrolled manner. As primarily a tank healer I suppose I could view it as a nice bonus, but given that I like to chuck Nourish and swiftmend liberally around, it seems a bit weak to justify the 3 points.

Just wondering what others thought.

Kheldar
06-30-2009, 08:02 AM
i reckon i need to look into this talent more as i do not really understand it ! :o

i do have it as it was recommended...from memory my resto build is more like 0/60/11.

although given i dont heal a lot and when i do its only heroics i seem to have an ok build so hopefully Living Seed is contributing !

Raging Epistaxis
06-30-2009, 08:10 AM
I dropped Living Seed when I saw it was doing less than 2% of my overall healing, and I found myself focusing more on raid healing than MT/OT healing.

I went deep enough into Balance for the haste talent (armory down at the moment, can't recall the name of the talent), and Living Seed was one of the casualties of the change.

But I'd definitely include it in a spec focused on single target healing.

0.02$

Kheldar
06-30-2009, 08:14 AM
someone remind me what living seed is actually doing ?

i dont raid heal, i only do some 5 man heroic healing.....mainly on the tank in a good grp where the rest dont pull aggro only get aeo/splash damage etc

unless its a particular aoe dps specced epic geared rogue who seems to forget aggro control, especially when a bit inebriated and dies in 2 second before i can click anything that will make a significant addition to his HP !

Destinae
06-30-2009, 08:49 AM
Khel-
"Living Seed Rank 3
When you critically heal your target with Swiftmend, Regrowth, Nourish or Healing Touch spell you have a 100% chance to plant a Living Seed on the target for 30% of the amount healed. The Living Seed will bloom when the target is next attacked. Lasts 15 sec."

I was wondering the same thing about this talent, actually. There were a couple of other talents that looked like they might be fun to play with. If I healed more, I think I'd try out other specs.

Based on what Raging said, I probably won't change my spec anytime soon though, as I tend to mainly heal only 5 mans and tanks in raids when I do manage to get picked up.

Solarflash
06-30-2009, 10:35 AM
I actually use Living seed in my talents, and I two heal ulduar 10 (so MT heals & Raid Heals most of the time). I have found that it procs a lot considering I use WG (glyphed) nearly everytime its off CD during many encounters.
Also, I tend to spam Nourish's/Swiftmends inbetween refreshing HOTs where needed.

I have about 2k (a little over) Spellpower in my healing set, and normally out heal the other healer (shammy) by about 10%15%. My average HPS is in the 2.5k range. Certain boss fights, like Kologran/Ignis/Freya/Hodir, where there is massive raid wide damage, I am typically +3k hps.

I honestly haven't tried without the living seed, and since I recently changed guilds, I don't have a WWS to fall back on to see how much its actually healing, but I see up pretty regularily.

Kheldar
07-01-2009, 03:26 AM
cheers Des - i better take a look at it and see if its doing much good for me in 5 mans.

most of the time i find myself using LB/Nourish. I dont find i use Regrowth, nor HT unless its coupled with the 'oh ****' NS button ! I'll throw the tank a Rejuv if he is taking a lot of damage and I want to use Swiftmend....

I'm sitting around 1900 sp in my healing set....

although last nite just as i was logging, i decided to log my bank alt to check the AH and i spied a nice set of ilvl 226 cloth boots.....Arcanic Tramplers...

So in a fit of spending I clicked BO - hoping they improve me a bit as my current boots (same for oomkin and resto are ilvl 213 and a BOE AH purchase from Naax 25 i think?). These new ones have a lot of haste on them (no crit) so I see them for resto more than oomkin but i could be wrong.... :o

i think it was the shock of actually seeing a BOE 226 item on the AH that got my buying finger working OT !

I'm waiting on 3/4 BOE items to buy but we seem to have a poorly progressing set of horde guilds for 25 man Uldaur - summer / too many guilds not enough big ones ! I can name 3 that i know do Uldaur 25.

Talking about healing.....

is there a secret to the big bad dinosaur in Drak ? not had much time recently but was home for a quick heroic something last nite....Drak was favoured by my tank cos he still wants the ring - it never ever drops :(

no one around so i agree to heal....someone i knew a while ago comes online (she's moved server really hence lack of seeing her and she is now unguilded) and agrees to come with her mage, got a newly 80 Lock (know her well from her raid geared Hunter, plus her newish 80 now main raiding healer) whose got some ok epics (crafted cloth and JC).

We then found a 2nd mage in LFM.

It became obviously early that dps was not our strongpoint :p Mobs taking a long time to die and i was acutally going below 10k mana healing :elfgrin:

But we wiped 5 times on the big dinosaur and left him in the end to go Tharon'Ja.

Nothing i could do could keep everyone up - the tank at one point went from full HP to about 2k !! in a second flat. By now i was in the red with 800ms which did not help. Fears caused 2 wipes when I ended up a long way from the tank and could not get back in time. Plus i had an add chasing me a couple times.

I was trying to make sure i kept HOT's on the tank..3 LB plus a Regrowth here and a Rejuv if possible. Plus using WG.

After doing Tharon'Ja we went back for one mroe try and we got him down to nearly dead but yet another fear led to dead tank.

i felt a failure ! i've healed Drak a few times. the only difference last nite was poor dps.

after we killed Tharon i noticed that the mage i knew freom old was at 1900dps, but the other mage and lock were barely hitting 1k dps and the tank about 1450 dps.

could i have done anything differently ?

the 2 things that stopped us killing him imho were :

Fear - no way to avoid them with our grp?
Low DPS - leading to a long fight and more fears/adds ?


Oh and that nasty debuff the tank gets causing massive damage a lot until you get the tank back to FULL health is not easy to deal with (same one i always used to get back in BC in heroic SP from a boss whose name was something like Rokmar the Crackler ? lol or something like it!)

Destinae
07-01-2009, 04:51 PM
Sometimes there's not much you can do to keep the group or tank going. Especially if your DPS is slow.

What kind of tank was it? DK's are notorious for dropping HP like a bad habit lol.

At any rate, sometimes there's not a whole lot you can do if the DPS just isn't heavy enough. Sometimes a tranquility can buy you a little time, assuming your tank/dps are in range or are smart enough to get in range.

As far as the fear- Even a shammy with a tremor totem doesn't always work. The group just has to recover immediately and get back in range. He does some sort of emote beforehand- I think. So as soon as I see that, I throw everything I've got at the tank and have my swiftmend on CD waiting for when the fear ends. Usually try to stack 2-3 LBs before I'm sent running. Seems to help alleviate some of the "OMG" stress after the fear. And if I don't get it off, and don't have NS+HT avail, I just spam nourish til I can stack hots again.

Low DPS tends to really kill an otherwise easy heroic run, unfortunately. If your dps is the suck, tell them to find healing potions to help out with long fights.

But I'm guilty of overhealing, I guess...doesn't seem to pose much of an issue unless I'm going oom constantly, which rarely happens.

Which fight places that Debuff on the tank? It's been awhile since I've been in there...

Kheldar
07-02-2009, 02:59 AM
hey Des - well as i just posted elsewhere in the the DK chat i started, i basically only ever run with 2 DK tanks.

One is a guildie, all epic gear...crafted / badge/heroic drops w etc

The other i will call OP DK who is in another guild...same sorta gear as the other but with some raid gear as he does some Naax and OS so he has an extra tier item or 2 over my guildie.

I think i need to make sure i know wot the emote ie when i am healing as i probably did not get to chuck enough hot's on him b4 i got feared.

The combination of being feared plus that grievous bite debuff was a killer.

I dont think healing pots were gonna help us tbh ! we needed more dps !

Yeah i must overheal a lot....but who cares if i have the mana which i tend to have apart from low dps grps which do tend to make me get a bit low cos my spirit is not my best stat.

Its the big Dinosaur boss who looks like he needs to be returned to Un Goro Crater with them big elite devilsaurs ! Dred ?

Have to say the lure of the feral is calling to me atm.....i could maybe be up for a bit of tanking 5 mans just to see how i do with the recent changes or do some melee dps as kitty, again to see how i do.

plus there seem to be more ilvl 219 or 226 feral gear on our AH. Keep being tempted by the Proto Hide Leggings and Nimble Climbers Belt. Plus i've seen a nice feral cloak.

Destinae
07-02-2009, 02:35 PM
I <3 tanking. It will always be my first and truest love with my druid. I rolled on and won The Undeath Carrier in Naxx25 last night. No one rolled for main spec, and I was the only one who rolled for offspec. It's definitely an improvement over my other tanking weapons. Despite being constantly forced into tree form, I still try to grab gear here and there for tanking. If it's there and no one wants it...grabby grabby!

As far as Dred...I had gone in with a brand new 80 DK tank once. He was geared well enough- meaning Def Capped and all, but still had lower stam/armor than a more weathered tank. After having to NS+HT after the first fear to save his life- I decided to keep LBx3 rolling on him for the entire fight. When we got feared, the bloom from LB gave me enough time to get back in range and start over. Might be a workable strat for healing that.

Getting back to the original question on the thread (and you thought we'd hijacked it)...I think this would be one of those situations where a Living Seed would come in SOOO handy. Crit heal, then fear, when Dred hits your tank again - Poof- there's a little buffer to allow you to race back into range. XD

Kheldar
07-03-2009, 03:19 AM
i still love tanking and feral, i just got fed up and needed a change.

once again last nite i ended up healing in the 2 heroics we did /sigh.

We did Drak again last nite and we got Dred much more easily this time - i guess i was more prepared and we had a shammy for a tremor totem !

zomg - did this thread have a original question then !! :p

Destinae
07-06-2009, 04:40 PM
I'll admit this here amongst friends...I've gone full resto.

I think I need counseling...and I'm going to start paying more attention to Living Seed and see if that's a bonus to keep or switch for something else that'll be fun =D

I still tank from time to time, but generally I spend my time being a tree these days.

It's more fun than I thought. And the guild sometimes lets me boss the other healers around. IT'S SO FUN!

Kheldar
07-07-2009, 02:49 AM
zomg !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*books Des into the feral clinic quick*

no no no no no - Des !

how can you write the word 'fun' in a resto post !!

*shakes head and walks off dejectedly*


i hope there are some n00b resto updates on your blog for me to chuckle at Des :)

Nellie
07-07-2009, 07:02 AM
I'm shocked ;) Welcome to the lightside :D

AS DPS I sat at the back and quietly minded my own business, as resto I get to shout at the tanks for pulling aggro, not telling us about it and then whinging that they didn't get any healing.

and I'm going to start paying more attention to Living Seed and see if that's a bonus to keep or switch for something else that'll be fun =D
Still playing around with it at the moment, but my feeling at the moment is that 3 points for 2-3% of your total raid healing isn't worth it. Freely admit I haven't gone to EJ to check numbers or the nerd opinion yet, but I think you can better utilise the points elsewhere even if it's in our rather lacklustre revitalise ability for example.

Kheldar
07-07-2009, 08:39 AM
I'm shocked ;) Welcome to the lightside :D


Hush Nellie, we are in serious mourning for the loss of a feral companion !

Destinae
07-07-2009, 09:24 AM
hahaha mourning!

I'm still a bear at heart. I just put on a tree costume a little more often now.

And Nellie, I've looked at revitalize over and over and over again. I keep thinking I should pick it up, but then it seems kind of expensive point-wise for something that's not a guaranteed proc...(assuming I remember my tooltip correctly).

Raging Epistaxis
07-07-2009, 09:38 AM
I actually had a PuG rogue thank me the other day for speccing revitalize - apparently his dps went up notably because of the smidgen of extra energy.

Surprised the heck outta me, I must say.

Oh, and as for Des taking up the mantle of Resto, if it makes you feel any better, I've been kitty more than tree lately, so balance is maintained. :-)

Destinae
07-07-2009, 10:37 AM
It's our job to preserve the balance of nature. That's what we do. So that explains why the world is still at peace with me in leaves...because you're all teeth and claws. =)

Maybe I'll tinker around with revitalize and see if I notice the absence of Living Seed...or whatever else I might drop for that. =)

Kheldar
07-08-2009, 02:27 AM
hmmm not quite in balance given the amount of teeth and claws postings of Des over the past months methinks.....

so what does Revitalise do then ? cant say i even remember the talent name !

and it has to be said i am also in my Tree disguise more often recently and lacking in The Way of the Oomkin :(

its getting to the stage i feel i really need triple specs so i ahve a tank spec to as now i heal we seem to need a tank more often !


Edit : Des there is a lack of new postings on your blog for ages now !

Destinae
07-08-2009, 08:45 AM
Hey Khel...
Here's the tooltip for Revitalize:
Revitalize Rank 3
Your Rejuvenation and Wild Growth spells have a 15% chance to restore 8 Energy, 4 Rage, 1% Mana or 16 Runic Power per tick.

I imagine it helps DPS/tanks a little. It just seemed that a 15% proc chance was too low to warrant 3 points. I might switch that in later on and drop some other points someplace.

And Khel, I agree. I keep being told I should also be boomkin. I refuse to give up my feral tank spec. That's out of the question. Resto has been fun, so I'm not wanting to get out of that just yet...so I guess a 3rd talent spec is in order here =)

The lack of posts on the blog...it's hard to explain...There hasn't been much room for "fun" lately. I've been in raid groups where, if you so much as THINK of having a bit of fun you get kicked out. Also, I've been bouncing between guilds again. I'll explain on my other thread. I would love to get some advice on the guild situations.

Nellie
07-08-2009, 11:58 AM
I've toyed with the idea of putting points back into Revitalise too and I must admit that the feedback I had from others in a 5 and 10 man with it weren't great so I quietly dropped the points in favour of letting the shadow priests and surv hunters charge mana. 15% just isn't enough of a chance for 3 points imo and I don't tend to chuck rejuve around on anyone other than tanks who never complain about a lack of rage. Granted I do use Wild Growth a lot as a raid heal but not frequently enough for it to make that much difference.

The energy side I hadn't really factored into the equation to be honest, but I guess as a top up to the kitties and rogues it might be a bit more of a bonus than the other replenishments it offers.

The druids are taking over, our existing GL stepped down yesterday and gave the posioned chalice to me (on correct basis that I didn't actually want to do it), my first order is that we have BBQ Gnome on friday and everyone re-rolls a druid ;)

Destinae
07-08-2009, 01:04 PM
Eewwwwww! BBQ Gnome!

Congrats, Nellie! This is an excellent first step for the druid takeover!

Kheldar
07-09-2009, 03:19 AM
ahha thanks Des now i remember it.

and i remember thinking what a waste of 3 points because of the stuff i do....ie only 5 mans.

i do use WG a bit....not a lot as most of the time only the tank and maybe 1 other melee are taking damage if we are doing it right....

also i only tend to use Rejuv on the tank now and then if taking a lot of damage and i then aim to Swiftmend it.

so i felt i would see little if any use for that talent.

that's a shame Des....was liking the blogging.


Woot ! Gratz Nellie......you join me in the exalted position of GL/GM.....although i expect you will have a lot more to contend with than i do in aguild of 5 :p

Nellie
07-09-2009, 05:42 AM
Woot ! Gratz Nellie......you join me in the exalted position of GL/GM.....although i expect you will have a lot more to contend with than i do in aguild of 5
Feels like I'm in a guild full of 5 year olds some times but we're not a huge amount bigger we only just got enough in to start doing Naxx25.

But two of us did shut up the priest (on his alt) by healing through Naxx10 last week much to his suprise (no idea why, I'm in 4xT7 at the moment although our other druid is new and still gearing up).

Raging Epistaxis
07-09-2009, 11:00 AM
Grats(?!) Nellie on assuming the GM mantle. Hope it goes well.

and Woot! I just got the valorous shoulders to fulfill 4xT7 last night, and anticipate casting Nourish more than I do now, if it's going to hit for significantly more. Which, with it's increased crit rate, makes Living Seed potentially more valuable as well.

I guess it's time for a spec re-evaluation.

Nellie
07-09-2009, 12:09 PM
Which, with it's increased crit rate, makes Living Seed potentially more valuable as well.

I was still only getting 2-3% of my total healing from Living seed with the 4 piece bonus (Grats!) and I spam heal tanks with Nourish once I've got my HoTs running. I've shied away from too much poring over Elitist Jerks recently, so it maybe one of those talents that if you gear and heal in a manner designed to maximise it that it becomes far more useful.

I'm running mostly 10 man instances at the moment and with another halfdecent healer we can pretty much read a book and browse the web at times so it might also show it's worth a bit more when you're really having to pump out that healing but the few reports that I've looked it in great dealing just don't seem to back that up at the moment.

Kheldar
07-10-2009, 08:37 AM
omg i just took a look and i do have revitalise !!!

someone or some spec must have recommended it and a n00b resto i took it !

i think i need to respec and not have wasted them 3 points !

and i should check the benefits to Living Seed i think in heroics next couple times i heal.

Magellan19
07-10-2009, 09:42 AM
Living Seed = Good

I use the 14/0/57 spec and will probably never change it.

Nourish has become my main spell, and I always have a Regrowth on my tanks, so Living Seed works quite well for me.

I will add, however, that I've kind of gotten back into using Lifebloom because I simply love to see a 20k crit flash across my screen. :uptosomet

So, I guess if you are one of those trees who is still too angry with Nourish (for stealing Lifebloom's thunder) to use it, then don't bother with Living Seed.

You know who you are. :wink:

Kheldar
07-10-2009, 11:12 AM
i tend to use LB and Nourish 80% of the time.

Destinae
07-10-2009, 11:40 AM
Nourish is my spam heal. I <3 Nourish.

Not to get too far off topic- or if you think I should post this elsewhere, let me know, but:

Patch 3.2 shows a pretty decent buff to Mp5...
• Mana Regeneration: All items that provide "X mana per five seconds" have had the amount of mana they regenerate increased by approximately 25%.

Do any of you intend to roll more Mp5 into your gear? Or continue relying on Spirit? I don't tend to oom terribly often, but it seems like Mp5 could potentially create a bigger regeneration return. Couldn't that potentially free up a stat slot for spellpower or hit?

...

Before you give me the orange circle of shame- please know that I'm kidding on Hit for resto gear. I had another resto lecturing me about my HPS being so low (1500+ for Naxx10 while tank healing and throwing a few heals out to the raid from time to time...not sure if that's good or bad, but I was well above his 1100hps on raid healing) and he informed me that my problem is that I don't have enough HIT on my gear and that I was a noob for having 0 hit.

If he wouldn't have been such a little brat throughout the entire raid, I'd have tried to offer what little resto knowledge I have and why that's a wasted stat on healer gear. But he had been grinding my nerves all night and I didn't feel like trying to argue...and...I'm evil. >=)

Kheldar
07-10-2009, 01:46 PM
ummm i'l be looking for wotever upgrades i can find !

currently would love to be able to get some of the uldaur crafted items but the Runed Orbs are somewhat expensive.

i always like haste as a stat.

for what i do i find my resto set seems to have 'enough' spirit/mp5 but neither are outstanding.

a buff to mp5 will be very nice.

if anything a buff to mp5 will actually be better for my oomkin gear.

Destinae
07-10-2009, 02:35 PM
I'm about the same, Khel. Regen generally isn't a huge problem for me as I rarely oom during fights. With the lowered CD on Innervate (even with the forthcoming changes to THAT ability)...it's even rarer that I find myself oom.

I got to thinking after I posted that- 25% would be a HUGE buff if you stacked Mp5 like crazy. I can't imagine that 25% would mean a whole lot for a druid with only 1-2 Mp5 pieces.

Kheldar
07-10-2009, 02:41 PM
innervate get a reduced CD ? but also some nerf then i guess ?

Destinae
07-10-2009, 03:21 PM
I believe initially it was 20 mins. At some point it was reduced to 6 mins, and became no longer spirit based- aka- you can use it to help a pally healer out, etc.

As of 3.2 this is what we're looking at:
Innervate: Duration reduced to 10 seconds, and cooldown reduced to 3 minutes. This means each use of Innervate will give half as much mana as before, but it will be available twice as often.

It's an interesting change, to say the least...duration down from 15 sec, giving half as much mana...so that seems like a hefty nerf, despite it being available 2x as often. Although, I rarely use it right now since I don't do much raid healing. /shrug.

Raging Epistaxis
07-11-2009, 09:35 PM
Wait, wait. You had a tree actually arguing that you needed Hit?

Srsly?

Umm.

Wow.

I guess he's never noticed that heals can't miss. /facepalm

It kind of reminds me of that old saying: Never argue with an idiot - they drag you down to their level then beat you with their greater experience.
Or something like that.

And, as far as I know, 1500hps isn't bad at all. I can't honestly say what I usually run though, I almost never look at hps. At least you could have rubbed his nose in the fact that you were doing 400 more than him, if he was making a big deal out of hps. /salute that you didn't rise to the bait.

Kheldar
07-13-2009, 02:56 AM
i've never ever looked at my hps - seems irrelevant in a 5 man !

if we cant beat the last boss and i'm healing then i fail !

Nellie
07-13-2009, 05:24 AM
Do any of you intend to roll more Mp5 into your gear? Or continue relying on Spirit? I don't tend to oom terribly often, but it seems like Mp5 could potentially create a bigger regeneration return. Couldn't that potentially free up a stat slot for spellpower or hit?

Not sure yet, need to look into it a bit more. One point to raise about it is that x MP5 on your gear is a flat boost. Get a pally in the group, for example, and your spirit gets a 10% boost from Kings.

I suspect as ever that it will be a balance a bit of both will be the way to go and the rest of the stats on the gear will swing whether I stick a piece with MP5 over a piece with more spirit.

Kheldar
07-13-2009, 07:53 AM
yep as ever will all gear its always a case of balancing this and that !

Destinae
07-13-2009, 08:52 AM
Raging, I didn't bother to argue. I encouraged him to continue stacking hit, if that's what he felt would improve his healing.

As far as spirit vs Mp5- I'm going to wait and see how much these increases are to see if it's worth it. I think spirit will just be an easier stat to come by, and it's working for me so far. =)

Kheldar
07-14-2009, 03:11 AM
i dont tend to ever look for spirit....its just there on gear.

its more of a choice between haste/crit/mp5.