View Full Forums : Lifebloom??


Keibo
08-05-2009, 07:10 PM
I've been trying to find more information on this but it is tough searching especially on the wow forums (one more I hate the new forms thread and I will lose it ... maybe). Either way, I'm 78 and have started to heal more. Here is my armory (I have more of a pvp resto spec)

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dethecus&n=Keibo

Here is my rotation. Pretty much keep rejuv on the tank at all times. Regrowth is my main heal (i'm glyphed). I use rejuv to spot heal and WG for my group heal.

I'm just wondering where lifebloom figures into our rotation now? I would think in harder content you would want to keep it up on the tank at all times. And either slow roll it then bloom or single stack bloom then refresh.

Just looking for some info.

Thanks,

Keibo

Kheldar
08-06-2009, 03:38 AM
hopefully the proper healers will give you some pointers Kei but i'll throw in my 2 penneth worth...

i dont raid, i only do heroics and i'm dual specced resto for the moment although i really want to go back to my feral roots. i've only been healing a month or so as you'll see from some of my posts in here, although i healed way back in original WoW in 40 mans like MC/BWL/AQ40.

For heroics i find Lifebloom is my main used heal for the tank and i always have a stack or 2 running on him. my aim is to let it bloom and then start again with 1 or 2 stacks depending upon the fight and how long is left in the fight.

In between that I usually get a rejuv and/or a regrowth on him and then use nourish for topping him up.

I still find that as a Tree i dont use a lot of mana and never have mana issues unless we have really poor dps for some reason and stuff takes ages to die. with a good dps grp even on boss fights i seem to end them with over 50% mana left.

Destinae
08-06-2009, 11:25 AM
I'll add my 2˘ also.

For me, personally, I am in the habit of throwing Rejuv first, followed by 1 or 2 LB (sometimes if I'm feeling spunky, I throw 3). But I always let it bloom. It cost 2x as much mana now, but you receive a "rebate" of half of that when it blooms. In my mind, it's just not efficient to keep it rolling.

In heroics, I tend to rely more heavily on Rejuv, Regrowth, Swiftmend when needed, and Nourish (and the OMGPANIC Nature's Swiftness+Healing Touch). If I throw LB, it's usually 1 or two and I always let it bloom w/o refreshing it.

I'm starting to get the impression that there's not really a "standard" rotation these days for healing. It's really just feeling out your heals and finding a rotation that you're comfortable with, that suits the party you're healing for, and that is effective and efficient.

I overheal a lot, but rarely run Oom. I also use LB sparingly (especially now that they supposedly nerfed the amount healed by it's final Bloom). Did I help or just cause more confusion?

Magellan19
08-06-2009, 11:41 AM
Hiya Keibo.

In 10 and 25 mans I tend to heal the raid however I always keep HoT's on the tanks and re-apply them on CD.

For the tank(s) pulling - and I do this as they are running in - I recommend doing that only if you know your tank:

(1) Regrowth, (3) Lifebloom, (1) Rejeuve and IF it's a nasty damage pull, I'll throw in a Nourish.

I always let lifebloom bloom - unless I know of upcoming massive damage.

For the raid:

Rejeuve on the major damage takers (you'll know who they are) and have your swiftmend on the ready.

Make certain you always keep WG going. And be sure to pick up the Glyph when you can.

I prefer to throw a Wild Growth on the tank. That way all melee within range will benefit. If melee seems to be holding there own in the damage department, then throw WG on a clothie whenever you can.

Nourish is my main spell for raid heals. I absolutely love it. When not throwing HoT's, I spam Nourish.

Again, whenever you have the chance, repeat the tank rotation, whether you are MT Healer or not. As far as I'm concerned, a tank can never have too many heals.

That's how I roll, and it works for me. Of course, I'm only one tree in a very large forest. Everyone has their own ways.

Also, every healer I know uses Healbot. They all love it.

I've personally never used it. It would probably make me a better healer, but I'm lazy and stuck to my old-fashioned ways. :wink:

Destinae
08-06-2009, 12:12 PM
Good call Magellan! Forgot ALL about Wild Growth...I throw that a lot in general also.

Nellie
08-06-2009, 12:42 PM
I've been trying to find more information on this but it is tough searching especially on the wow forums (one more I hate the new forms thread and I will lose it ... maybe). Either way, I'm 78 and have started to heal more. Here is my armory (I have more of a pvp resto spec)

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Dethecus&n=Keibo

Here is my rotation. Pretty much keep rejuv on the tank at all times. Regrowth is my main heal (i'm glyphed). I use rejuv to spot heal and WG for my group heal.

I'm just wondering where lifebloom figures into our rotation now? I would think in harder content you would want to keep it up on the tank at all times. And either slow roll it then bloom or single stack bloom then refresh.

Just looking for some info.

Thanks,

Keibo
To add my tuppence too.

Regrowth isn't as good as Nourish anymore, especially once you glyph for it and even more so once you get the 4xt7[.5] bonus. You're also talented for Living seed and Nourish has a higher crit chance than Regrowth which should mean you'll proc living seed more frequently.

That's not to say that there isn't still a place for Regrowth, if nothing else, its HoT element, once you've glyphed for Nourish, will boost the healing done by Nourish. But it's a slower cast, has a lower crit rate, has a lower heal on the instant heal portion and costs more mana than nourish.

With regards to Lifebloom:
I always keep Rejuve up on a tank (for swiftmend and to boost Nourish) I then build a 3 stack of lifebloom and top up with Nourish as necessary. On a really tough fight I might add a regrowth to boost Nourish further and get another HoT running to flatten out the damage.

When lifebloom is nearly ticked out it's time to make a choice. Do you let it bloom to top up the tank's health and recover the mana from casting it or do you refresh the stack and let it tick for another 9 second? The fun part is how long you're prepared to keep a 3 stack refreshed as every refresh is basically losing you mana over and above letting it expire and then re-applying it.

I also use Lifebloom a lot when I don't need to chuck a WildGrowth down but the target has taken a fair amount of damage, the bloom element of the heal is very handy for that and the HoT buys you enough time to react if they're doing something stupid. I do sometimes Rejuve them (as well) but I prefer to keep swiftmend for coping with anything unexpected on the Tank.

An obvious place where Lifebloom is really handy is on the Loatheb fight in Naxx10. you can pre-stack 3-4 people with lifeblooms in preparation for the healing window, rejuve a few more, chuck out a wildgrowth as soon as the healing windows opens and swiftmend the tank/whoever has lowest health.

I will caveat that I've only done one 10man and a couple of 'erics since 3.2 hit which nerfed the amount of healing done on the Bloom and boosted Nourish if you talent for it, but I'm still seeing LB crit for well over 10k health in T7 gear.

There is a lot more flexibility in how you can use Lifebloom compared to TBC days especially as it is now worth using the Bloom as part of the rotation so there's not so much a "here's how you heal" to being a tree anymore which I like :)

Oh and if you can face wading through pages of calculations and arguments over whether 5 points of haste is better than 2 of spellpower, Elitist Jerks has some very good information on all the Classess, what stats to spec for, rotations and such like and is well worth a browse even if you just want to know what the "cookie cutter" talent spec currently is

With regards to your talents, personally I'd tweak them a little. Drop improved barkskin and put the points either in empowered touch or Nature's majesty. I don't personally use revitalise, it's too unpredictable to be worth 3 points in my opinion, especially compared to other classes revitalise talents, as you've got to be healing someone for it to work and then only at a 15% chance. Personally I'd stick those points into Nature's majesty and Nature's splendor, the latter is especially good to have as it boosts the duration of Rejuve, Regrowth and Lifebloom. I'm not currently a huge fan of Living Seed either but I think that is far more subjective.

Sorry for the wall of text ;)

Nellie
08-06-2009, 01:15 PM
I overheal a lot, but rarely run Oom. I also use LB sparingly (especially now that they supposedly nerfed the amount healed by it's final Bloom). Did I help or just cause more confusion?

My overheal is around 15% on a normal raid using Lifebloom all the time ;) At the end of the day though, getting hung up on overheal or who topped the healing charts is a dangerous thing to do. Dont let yourself die, don't let the tank Die, Don't let the good DPS die and don't go OOM are the only things I really care about. Overheal can be useful for establishing how well you're working with another healer, but if you aren't going OOM and nobody's dead, who cares :biggrin:

Also, every healer I know uses Healbot. They all love it.

I've personally never used it. It would probably make me a better healer, but I'm lazy and stuck to my old-fashioned ways.

I don't. I do run it so that other users can, apparently, see what I'm doing, but I've never got on with it. Still using lifebloomer, still liking that.

Keibo
08-06-2009, 01:20 PM
Wow, thanks for all the information. So basically vs. rejuv on topping off dps it is most likely better to LB when they have taken more damage. Also the rolling LB on tanks seems like it is a situational thing and depends on the damage taken.

I really can't thank you guys and gals enough. The Grove has always been awesome when it comes to getting info.

@Nellie-No problem about the wall of text. It was very informative. For my spec I was really shooting for more of a pvp spec at the time. If I were to do more heroics or raiding, I would definitely take your suggestions (especially when I hit 80 for nourish).

@Magellan-I've basically just used clique (which has helped my healing beyond measure). Other then that I was thinking of doing grid and setting it up the way they have it on resto4life. I'll try healbot but I really don't know the differences between modes except that I LOVE clique.

Thanks again!

Nellie
08-06-2009, 01:22 PM
And last one, I promise
Again, whenever you have the chance, repeat the tank rotation, whether you are MT Healer or not. As far as I'm concerned, a tank can never have too many heals.
Noooooooo!

I absolutely hate it when people not assigned to my tank start chucking heals down on him/her. You're wasting your mana and you're wasting mine. :twak:

Magellan19
08-06-2009, 04:40 PM
And last one, I promise

Noooooooo!

I absolutely hate it when people not assigned to my tank start chucking heals down on him/her. You're wasting your mana and you're wasting mine. :twak:

You're right and you make a good point.

I should have clarified that if a Druid is healing the MT, then I don't worry too much about it.

Any other class however, I just cannot stop myself from throwing HoT's on the tank.

It's my nature. Pun intended. :wink:

Destinae
08-07-2009, 09:18 AM
Curiously, how do you guys handle overly territorial healers?

Another Des curiosity- Is there a certain etiquette for healing assignments?

Meaning, if you are assigned to heal MT and the priest assigned to raid heals starts throwing big fat juicy heals on your tank, do you say something? Or do you let it slide and move onto raid heals?

I ask, because a few of these situations have come up where I'm assigned my tank and someone else spam heals my tank the entire time. Normally I just move to raid heals but keep a close eye (and some HoTs) on the tank I'm assigned...

In guild runs, this is almost never an issue. In PuGs...it's a constant obstacle. Just a curiosity.

Nellie
08-07-2009, 10:28 AM
I'm not actually that territorial about healing, if it isn't causing problems then I'll sit back and let the guy desparate to top the meters overwork themselves. I'd much rather get the bosses down, grab some loot and go home than spend 20 minutes arguing about healing assignments.

In guild it is normally a case of new healers trying to prove themselves and/or being unfamiliar with working with another healer and I tend to assign Naxx10 to two healers, one of them normally being me. We'll both take a Tank and be responsible for raid healing our respective groups as much as possible which normally alleviates the need for a bored healer looking at meters to feel the need to chuck heals where they aren't needed.

Magellan19
08-07-2009, 05:03 PM
If my assignment is going down (yes, it happens :wink:) and someone throws a heal that gets me out of a jam, then I'm forever grateful and will even annouce it and thank them over ventrilo - after the fight, of course.

To be quite honest, I've never noticed others healing my targets all that much. I'm sure the extra heals are there, but if nobody's dying and we are trucking along nicely, then the more the merrier. Doesn't bother me in the least.

As for me throwing HoT's on the tanks when I am clearly assigned to raid heals, I've not once heard a complaint. Even in a pug. Maybe the MT healer sat at their desk fuming in anger, but they've never announced it.

And while I'm healing the tanks on top of raid healing, I'm usually about 5th or 6th on the overhealing meter. So I guess I'm not too gratuitous about it.

As for etiquette, stick to your assignment. But ALWAYS, always watch the tank's health.

Kheldar
08-10-2009, 12:15 PM
As for etiquette, stick to your assignment. But ALWAYS, always watch the tank's health.
indeed, even when i did last raid in proper 40 mans like MC/AQ40 etc and was always healing i'd always look to top off the the MT or OT if thinks looked to be going pear shaped.

dead MT esp often meant a wipe of 40 people in the old days !

Nellie
08-11-2009, 08:41 AM
I will admit to leaving a Rejuve ticking on a tank from time to time :) Can then swiftmend/nourish in times of need without throwing the main healers off their stride or wasting too much mana in the process.

Shaasar
08-13-2009, 05:54 AM
Hey! I'm new to the forums, and wanted to put in my two cents too :)

I've been raid healing for about 3 years now on my druid, and I've found that by far the most effective tactic is to spam rejuv's in between wild growth CD's the entire fight. And I mean the WHOLE fight. On EVERYONE in the raid.
Also, with the changes to lifebloom, it's a very crappy spell. They said they only reduced the SP on the periodic and bloom portions by 20%, but it looked more like 40% or 50%. Don't use it. It sucks.
One thing I'm confused about is that some of the people on here are talking about tank healing. Druids are not tank healers. lol. End of story, the only three circumstances in which I can envision myself tank healing are on Patchwerk, in a 5 man, or solo healing a raid. Our cooldowns as well as the nature of our healing spells make it so its not only very hard to do this, but also somewhat awkward and a colossal waste of mana. That said, popping a regrowth or rejuv or even...ghasp...a lifebloom on the tank is absolutely fine, and will more than likely really help your performance on the meters due to the damage that tanks usually take. And who knows, the changes to Empowered Touch (Adding Nourish to it) might make us more viable tank healers if someone theory-crafts a pwn rotation for us.

Shaasar
08-13-2009, 06:02 AM
Also I think that Nature's Swiftness is a waste of a talent point, put the points in the Balance tree once you have the essentials in the Resto branch. (Nature's Splendor, perhaps?) Also, the increase in haste that the 14/0/57 provides will give an absolutely amazing opportunity for druid healing a little down the way. As we all know, t9 4 piece allows for Rejuvenation crits, which is amazing bordering on highly overpowered, and ostensibly the 20% bonus to casting speed that you get off of crits from speccing into those balance talents will proc on these new Rejuv crits. This will allow druids to finally gem away from haste! We can purely gem for crit or SP now that we will have that 20% bonus up 99% of the time. This spec/4 piece combined with the new Idol from Emblems of Triumph (Provides 234 Spellpower on Rejuv tick) will make druid healing even more formidable than it is.

Nellie
08-14-2009, 09:25 AM
Druids are not tank healers.
We might not be a defacto "pick up the tank" healers That we were in TBC but I'll fight my corner as a tank healer in Wrath certainly in comparison to raid healing although group makeup does still play a part in that

The changes in empowered touch just made casting Nourish (with T7/Glyph bonus) even more powerful than it already was and even the nerfs to Lifebloom haven't reduced its effectiveness in Tank healing imo. I'm still ticking at 1200ish healing a second on a 3 stack and still seeing +10k crits from it. Add 1800 healing every 3 seconds from Rejuve and weaving Nourish, plus swiftmend and occasionally still using regrowth in between lifebloom and I don't get why you think Druids aren't ideally placed to tank heal.

Also I think that Nature's Swiftness is a waste of a talent point
If you're not Tank healing I agree with you. If you are tank healing an Emergency instant cast of Healing Touch comes in very hand thanks very much.

Playing back with a 11/0/60 Resto spec again from a 14/0/57 previously. Still think living seed is a waste of 3 talent points even tank healing and more focused on using nourish over Lifebloom so might yet respec back again. It might be better in a raid heal situation, but it relies on Nourish/swiftmend/regrowth and I don't cast a huge number of those on raid members so don't really see that it's a great deal of use there either.

Shaasar
08-19-2009, 01:40 PM
If they change Living Seed so it applies to the new Rejuvenation crits, I would definitely get it, but as it is, I don't use enough of those non-instant spells to make it worth it. If I was arena I think I would definitely go a 0/0/71 spec, because of Imp Barkskin and NS. Also, I did a few threes the other day with a disc priest and my pvp build, pain suppression combined with imp barkskin and an innervate not only makes you uncrittable (with the glyph) nigh on invincible (80% dmg reduction) and undispellable (95% resist before gear), so you lolheal everyone and just stand there while your FoK rogue or Spriest or Arms warrior or something bounces. It works hella good. The only thing is finding a disc priest that wants to spend time strategizing with you, lol. Going back to my prior point, I didn't mean to say that druid tank healing is absolutely awful and shouldn't be used under any circumstances, because that would be insulting myself, and therefore weird, but it's that I don't feel that they provide the very best in that division, like a pally or priest could. What I'm trying to say is heal to your strengths: and druid heals are simply not designed to optimally keep a tank alive, they're optimally designed to be spammed lightly over the entire raid, and by god does this help on all the fights we see these days where the raid takes progressive, constant AoE damage. We don't have the cooldowns and we don't have the mana-efficient spam heals to do it (Empowered Touch/t7 4-piece bonus/Glyph of Nourish aside), and it should be left (if possible) to someone who does it better (or at least in a more efficient manner). Actually, now that I think of it, I'm wondering why I even bothered to run a build with Nature's Grace, because it's almost never up... roar! Well, the only thing for it is to save up Emblems and try to wrangle 4 pieces of t9 to get that rejuc crit chance, then we'll see if it's worth it and if I can get rid of all those pesky haste/sp gems and replace them with pure SP, which would finally enable me to beat our priest in terms of raw SP. (I have 2500, he has 2700 >.<)

Shaasar
08-19-2009, 01:41 PM
Also, on NS/HT macros: One Word: Swiftmendlol.

Nellie
09-08-2009, 06:00 AM
I'll meet you halfway, I've been away for a couple of weeks and stuck RLing Naxx 10 far too long :redface: at T7/7.5 the optimisation screams to me Tank Healer. The emphasis is on boosting the efficiency of Nourish to scale with your HoTs.

T8 onwards that priority shifts to boosting Rejuve, making it cheaper etc and yes, that smacks to me, especially now (we're a small casual guild just starting to progress through ulduar in any meaningful way) of moving druids more into a dedicated Raid Healing role and the 4 piece T8 bonus nicely fills that missing gap on rejuve of wanting a small, fast direct heal to apply. At that point the currently rather sucky revitalise talent also starts to look a lot more valuable than it does currently as it turns the inevitable overheal into a chance to benefit the member with it ticking.