View Full Forums : Bloody Eclipse.

09-10-2009, 03:21 PM
ok i have decided that i really dont like this talent.

it always procs at the wrong time.

i just dunno what i can do to get my dps past 3k. maybe my gear just is not good enough. but i so stuck for upgrades given i dont raid apart from a few 10 mans.

i had 3k down as my goal. perhaps unrealistically.....

i've always used hurricane a lot in heroics cos then i'm getting dps on all the mobs. now i am trying to use more eclipse. but by the time u try to get iff,iis and a mf on the mobs then get a proc the damn things are all dead !

even now i have gotten the 2t8 bonus of +15% and on a good day i do probably 2.7k sometimes closer to 3k. on a bad day r a bad instance i do 2.2k to 2.4k !


i feel eclipse is just to much 'luck' based on not only it proccing but proccing at the damn right time.

do other classes have this for their main damage adding abilities ?

09-11-2009, 07:40 AM
I don't think I've come across another class that is so dependent on crit strikes to proc their main ability but I'm willing to be corrected.

I don't play balance too much right now, but in 4xt7 I'm still only just scraping 3k DPS in 10 man instance but I'm more than willing to concede that I'm possibly not playing optimally or itemising everything properly for balance, but I gotta say I'm struggling to keep at my hit cap at the moment anyway which really impacts which bits of kit I can move around right now.

When it comes to trash, I don't worry about Eclipse too much, despite 30+ % crit rate the mob is generally dead before eclipse procs anyway.

Not sure if recount can do it, but on your next raid take a WWS (wow web stats) report and filter your DPS by boss fights only. Trash doesn't really matter and for the most part in places like Naxx you'll be using AOE anyway. My DPS on boss fights is considerably higher simply because they last longer and it hence a lot easier to get a nice stream of crits going and hence to keep eclipse up.

For boss fights I've modified my rotation a little as I get as frustrated as you regarding procs.

I open with IFF, IS, MF then alternate Wrath and Eclipse until one or the other procs

09-11-2009, 08:44 AM
yeah its really frustrating.

equally or even less geared DK's and Pally's seem to pass my dps with apparent ease /sigh

just done a toc h and on boss fights recount was reporting me around 2.7 - 2.8k on Eadric and the Marshall with a bit lower on the Black Knight (although the wife was talking to me for this fight so i blame her :p)

Mage we had with us was at more like 3.5k. however he raided Uldaur 25 and now does ToC 25 so gear is better and the main gain he has over me is a 41% Crit !!! Mines languishing at 27.25% :(

its beginning to frustrate me so much i'm considering :

a) dropping oomkin for feral
b) just doing more healing, and u all know how i love healing !

in a bit of a quandry atm....

09-11-2009, 10:17 AM
Well in some respects you are never going to top the DPS meters compared to a well played Death Knight, Hunter, Rogue or even Mage. I'm not desparately familiar with Pallies other than shouting "gief kings!" at them but I don't bring a Balance druid to the raid to top the DPS charts.

I'm bringing you to bring an Innervate (even if you do use it on yourself most of the time), Pink Paw, possibly thorns on the Tanks, Battle Res and Moonkin Aura to buff all my other caster's crit by 5%. I might even need you to abolish posion and remove curses on some fights.

You can bring more to a raid than pure DPS and Druids whether Feral or Balance fall into the category of bloody handy to have around even if they aren't necessarily taking part in the end of raid E-peen "look at my godly DPS" contests.

09-11-2009, 10:28 AM
oh, and ever see a hunter stop boasting about his DPS when the S**t hits the fan and keep the tank on his feet?

Me either, I've seen plenty of Balance druids chuck an tranquility down or a regrowth on a tank while they battle res a healer, innervate them, pop back into moonkin and then carry on DPSing. That's the trade off you make by not topping the meters.

09-11-2009, 04:59 PM
yeah indeed Nel.

i excel at doing that.

even in todays ToC H i mentioned above i had to switch to caster form and keep the tank alive cos the healer died. done that soo many times in lots of heroics..but no one remembers that.....

so i do all of that with the BR/innervate etc.

i just feel that i have put a lot of effort into my gear, including buying pieces from the AH i cannot otherwise get and still my dps is rather average :(

yeah decursive is very good and i even allow it to interrupt my wrath or starfire and get a curse or poison off a few people to help out the healer....

trouble is most people look only at the dps on recount at the end of a raid or heroic.....

09-11-2009, 06:33 PM
Your DPS even if you play out of your skin is going to be "average". Yes you'll beat a crappy hunter or rogue or DK but you wont come close to beating someone who knows what they're doing in like for like gear.

That's the trade off of bringing a load of great buffs, being able to drop out and emegency heal or decurse or battle res or all the funky stuff that's part of the fun of being a druid, you don't get to challenge the keyboard facerollers who just do DPS.

Any raid leader grumbling that a druid isn't topping the DPS meters, frankly, is a retard

09-14-2009, 09:50 AM
Agreed, Nellie =)

Druids are awesome for a bajillion other reasons. I think Blizz once told us that we're the jack of all trades- master of none. =) 'sides, 2.7k for a non-raiding boomkin ain't something to sneeze at. That's impressive and you should be proud =)

Maybe a few emblem of Triumph gear upgrades would get you to your goal? Or it's possible that stuff's dying too quickly for you to break 3k...=)

09-14-2009, 11:01 AM
One other thing to keep in mind Khel, heroics are a terrible place to measure true DPS. Heroics measure burst damage at best. Mobs simply don't have the HP pools to support the use of a "Good" rotation. Heck, I regularily sit #1 or #2 as the tank, not because of mad skill, but simply fight structure.

Melee DPS will top the meters in any heroic these days because most groups out gear the content by a land slide. Remember heroics (except ToC) are i200. There is a good chance your average ilvl of the group falls between 215 and 230. That is +1T on average.

As stated by others, boomkins, or druids in general bring a lot more to the table than DPS. 3k is a good goal to shoot for. I know many very skilled boomkins that hover right in the 2.8k-3k range in ulduar and TotC. I wouldn't want to raid without them! :)

09-16-2009, 03:34 PM
cheers all.

maybe my 2.6-2.7k in a heroic is pretty good then ! although i have to admit that at times for wotever reason (tired/merry :p/ poor procs/bad rotation) i can end a heroic on only 2.1 or 2.2k

saving my EoT's Des - got 72 i think now. not sure on wot to get. ie the ilvl 245 or drop down the 232 gear ?

indeed Solar....with a guild grp i am sure we are gearing at at least ilvl 213 or better for heroics.

trouble is after a great raid start we aint done anything now in over 2 weeks. had ot cancel a Uldaur run tonite as we had no tanks online and only 1 who had signed up.

i guess the question is Des - are we still jack all of all and master of none ?

and are there other classes that also fit this description ?

where does a pally fit ? or a shammy ? or these new damn DK's ?

Solar - its soul destroying in a heroic to end up doing barely more dps after a heroic than the DK tanking it :( maybe its just me but ffs that's not rite !!!

well i hope we raid more and i can prove a raid dps figure in 10 man naax/uldaur and maybe toc one day thats in excess of 2.5k for sure.....

09-16-2009, 08:39 PM
i guess the question is Des - are we still jack all of all and master of none ?
Not to the same degree that we once were. You're now very much a kitty DPS or a bear tank or a hootkin or a tree and without switching to your alternate spec that's kind of all you'll do. That's not to say that a pink paw, thorns, innervate (if you can spare it), hootkin, tree or feral passive buffs, battle res and a normal res are abilities to be sniffed at and, at a push, you can tank and do a bit of DPS or go Balance and kind of help out with a heal if needed and so on.

I guess that's the trade off of "bring the player", utility classes aren't needed as much as in theory any mix of DPS, Healing and Tanking should be able to do <insert instance of choice>.

But if you raid as a hootkin and they need an extra healer now, you switch to your resto spec rather than just change your gear. Kitty feral's dont lug tanking gear with them to OT some mob to the same extent they did.

I still say that's great flexibility to have and in some respects it's also why Druids and Pallies and Shammies don't typically top the DPS charts. We can do most anything and at least fill two distinct roles within a raid. Plus we bring all those great buffs. Would you rather have two hunters bringing improved Hunter's Mark or one hunter and a feral druid? Does that extra what? 2-400DPS in like for like gear outweigh 5% crit across all your melee, plus pink paw and all the other good stuff?

Solar - its soul destroying in a heroic to end up doing barely more dps after a heroic than the DK tanking it maybe its just me but ffs that's not rite !!
That's utterly down to people now overgearing the instances. Our tanks are nearly always second or third on the damage meters in 5man instances. We're killing the first boss in Gundrak in 23 seconds at the moment and if you aren't melee that's not enough time to do much damage. I don't FF or IS or MF in heroics anymore because I wouldn't get any wrath or Starfire shots off, let alone proc eclipse. And we're not especially well geared in comparison to some.

I can push a shade under 3k DPS, sometimes a little over depending on the gorup as Hootkin in Ulduar, heroics I don't even look anymore, I'm more concerned whether we can be in and out again in under 15-20 minutes than what the DPS is.

09-18-2009, 03:22 PM
its beginning to frustrate me so much i'm considering :

a) dropping oomkin for feral
b) just doing more healing, and u all know how i love healing !

c) rolling a Shadow Priest and never worry about low dps ever again.

/your welcome! :p

09-20-2009, 10:34 AM
hmm did i spot Mag in this thread... ?

nope dont think so...ahh that's ok then :p

09-22-2009, 09:57 AM
hmm did i spot Mag in this thread... ?


09-22-2009, 12:40 PM
sure i saw a flicker of a shape then ?....

nope obviously imagining things....

11-23-2009, 04:09 PM
It depends on how stable your raid group is, however most of these apply anyways.

Due to improved faerie fire, most casters (with a moonkin in the raid) are dropping their hit to account for it being there, which adds to them gemming/enchanting for +damage stats. Which is dps the Moonkin did, just indirectly. The 5% crit aura that all the casters get to enjoy... every extra crit that they might not have had, dps the Moonkin did. Holy paladins stack crit for healing, so that is not just dps that the Moonkin is responsible for, there was increased healing and mana regen as well. The increased haste for everyone in the group from Improved Moonkin aura is more casts per minute for the casters as well, adding more indirect dps and healing to what the Moonkin brings to a raid.

And it is not just spell casters... Physical DPS classes get a 5% armor decrease on the boss. Which means they are doing more damage per hit. Which, again, is dps the Moonkin did indirectly.

In other words, to truly appreciate a Moonkin's or your own DPS as a Moonkin, you need to understand how much better everyone around you did because of you.

For Kitties or Bear tanks, the same thought process can apply. Just subbing in your the + healing that all the physical dps does to themselves. I know survival hunters rave on having a feral druid since they crit OFTEN.

And there are benefits from all of the hybrid classes along the lines. So you when they are all stroking their pretty dps numbers, poke fun and say "Hey, some of that is mine."