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Kheldar
09-22-2009, 11:56 AM
after 5 or so months of oomkin....

given we seem to have been nerfed whilst i've been away and stuff has changed a quick question on stat priority....

what am i aiming for now....only going to be doing heroic tanking tbh rather than any raiding.

obviously i need enough hit for the level of mobs i am up against but after that...

agi > stam > crit > exp ?

or ?

Thanks

Solarflash
09-22-2009, 12:22 PM
Honestly, in my opinion...for heroics, you are dead on!

For H-ToC you may need to start leaning towards: Stam>Agi>Exp>Crit, but if you keep a relativley equal balance of agi and stam in your gemming/enchanting you will be just fine.

Stam stacking doesn't start being a priority until i219+ content(Ulduar+), and parry gibs are almost welcome in most heroics to help maintain some rage.

Kheldar
09-22-2009, 12:47 PM
well picked up a couple new items in last 24hrs from EoC badges....the legs, tier chest and something else ! lol.

and i've picked up along the way every ilvl 219 feral item that TOC drops....the meta helm, bracers, boots etc plus got the 170 stam trinket from BRD and a gossamer. plus others.

Just need the polearm from TOC H !

getting everything enchanted and gemmed. atm i am going with AGI gems in red and Stam in blue sockets....

anyone recommend a good cloak ? using the crafted ilvl 200 still....

will check my hp/crit etc and post later.

Solarflash
09-22-2009, 01:19 PM
With the badge gear, you will be fine on stats for heroics, including H-ToC.

As for the cloak...I have always struggled to get my hands on good tanking cloaks and rings...so I, don't have any helpful advice there. There are a few in Naxx25 which is high PUGable should the mood and time strike you, but other then that, I think you are stuck with the crafted i200.

Kheldar
09-22-2009, 02:54 PM
hmm ok stuck with the durable then for the forseeable future.

from memory there is a BOE from ToC so i keep my eye on the AH.

Kheldar
09-22-2009, 02:57 PM
ok self buffed....

32857 hp
4890 ap
39.33% crit
282 hit
24 exp :o
38.05% dodge
28126 armour

how good or bad ?

Solarflash
09-23-2009, 07:45 AM
You are certainly geared enough for a heroic. Your AP/Stam seem a bit low in comparison to your other stats, and your hit seems a bit high.

One major problem you will encounter is that weapons upgrades are extremely rare for bears. Without raid gear, MarrowStrike (H-ToC) should be your #1 goal as far as gear goes.

Check your enchants and be sure that they are all Stam or Agility. Swap out any +hit enchants including icewalker from boots, and +hit enchants to weapons (I reccomend mongoose for weapons, but +AP enchants are also nice).

Destinae
09-23-2009, 09:01 AM
Welcome back to bearhood Khel!

You are definitely geared enough to tank heroics =). I'm told I'm "easy to heal" when I tank, so...I think you'll find your healers will say the same.

I have to agree with Solar on the weapon situation, sadly enough. I was lucky enough to get my hands on an Undeath Carrier during a PuG Naxx run. And I say "lucky" as I was healing and there wasn't anyone in the group that wanted it. I won it rolling a 1 for "Offspec" roll.

Since Mongoose still seems hard to come by on my server (Never seen a scroll on the AH and can't seem to snag a 'chanter that has it...) I have I think +28 Agi on my weapon. Ok and maybe I refuse to spend an entire fortune on an enchant that "can sometimes" give me god-like agility...lol

Don't feel bad about Durable cloak. I still wear that because, as Solar said, it's just hard to find anything "better". I haven't looked much at the badge cloaks...not sure what's available.

Oh oh Khel...Looking at your stats...you currently have better stats than I first had when I began tanking Naxx10. With HP like that, you could easily tank OS10 or 25. (Just throwing it out there lol) I'm actually a little jealous about your Hit and Stam...I'm ~1-2k HP less than you and considerably less hit...(I'm at 226 right now-but that was with a +Hit gem that I'm not even sure how I got >.>). Unbuffed I have 40% Dodge (or 39% if I put on my polar boots).

Kheldar
09-23-2009, 09:21 AM
Cheers all.

I will recheck stats to make sure i aint made a mistake in them above if you think some are a bit weird Solar.

i only have 85AP on the weapon iirc.

atm i've been going for AGI in red slots and STAM in blue slots. will check enchants to.....cant remember if i went icewalker or agi on the boots.

What do you think my HP and AP should be Solar ?

Solarflash
09-23-2009, 09:49 AM
Well, I am probably a bad source of stat goals if you aren't raiding, since that was always my goal along the way.

I would expect AP to be +5k, and HP in the 30k+ area for heroics. I'll be honest, when I am healing, I cringe a bit if a tank (any class) is <35k HP on H-ToC. Rogue, Warr, Mage(pally) = tank gib in a real hurry

skwidrific
09-23-2009, 11:06 AM
Idol of Mutilation FTW

25 Emblems of Triumph.

uptime on the dodge buff is nearly 100% from what i've read on other sites.

also a GREAT PvP idol :P

Kheldar
09-24-2009, 06:06 AM
Well I tanked Heroic Drak the daily yesterday ! First tanking i done in 5 months or so !

a bit scary....sure my rotation was off and it does appear my threat/ap a bit low as a couple mages were pulling aggro on some mobs with their aoe. so more STR gems maybe !

iirc with buffs i was getting close to 40k HP and the priest said easy to heal so that was a plus !

Not spending EoTs on feral atm skw cos may not stay feral. we do seem to need a healer more than a tank and i;m not sure anymore that i want to tank so wont spend the EoT's on it !

Trinkets :

Torn between

Bubbling Brightbrew Charm 170 stam
Bitter Balebrew Charm 170 stam
Corens Chromium Coaster 84 crit + Chance to give 1000AP on melee crit.
Darkmoon Card : Greatness 90 agi
Brawlers Souvenir 84 dodge Use = plus 335 dodge on 2min CD.

also got Essence of Gossamer


I've been using both Stam trinkets. This gives me 33,277 HP self buffed.

But i'm wonder about the DC:G and the proc rate on the Coaster for the Crit and extra AP at the expense of some Stam ?

Opinions ?



Oh and i finally got Marrowstrike today from the b*&ch in ToC H ! AP enchant or Mongoose ? Plus i'm looking at a Stam or Str gem in it as the socket bonus imho is not worth it.

Destinae
09-24-2009, 08:54 AM
aww Khel, and here Des was SO excited to have another bear to maul with...lol

I logged last night in my extremely outdated healer gear. I'll have to check my stats in bear and let you know. After changing the rotation a little bit + more tab-targeting I don't have too much of a threat issue.

It's always a comfort to hear a healer tell you that you're easy to heal. Makes a bear feel all warm and fuzzy =)

Solar, I have to agree for H:ToC that I often cringe if a tank comes in with 30K or less, but I'm always up for a challenge >=) hehe

I really enjoy being a tank/resto druid. It tends to open up a lot of doors for my lil druid. =)

Kheldar
09-24-2009, 08:57 AM
hehe Des - not sure yet tbh. i'll see.

Yeah let me know your stats :)

Yeah maybe for ToC but surely the others now require less as Toc is out on its own as a harder one ?

Hmm tank/resto..... but i do still like oomkin even if i have a rant about Eclipse !

Destinae
09-24-2009, 04:59 PM
My husband is thinking of switching to boomkin from kitty O.O WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO?! lol

I'll jot down some stats for you =), but you're doing really well on stats so far. I haven't yet gotten all of my enchants and gems sorted out (I'm a bad bear-Skwid has slapped my hand numerous times for not gemming/chanting gear). I'll post what I have now though. A few healer guildies have said I'm easy to heal, so I can't guess I'm doing too terribly. And I can FINALLY hold threat versus my Mage friend. (He's made it a challenge to see if I could keep mobs on me when he unleashes his full, fiery wrath on them.)

I've never been able to get my hands on DMC: Greatness, so I wouldn't be able to say anything about the proc rate.

I still use the Valor Medal of the First War (same exact stats as the Souvenir trinket from Mr. Direbrew, so no badge expense there), and my EoG...so I'm useless for advice on tanking trinkets.

For H:ToC...you could probably tank that one also. Esp if you're hitting nearly 38-40k party buffed. You might not have super high avoidance/mit but you'd be able to eat up some damage before your healer would have to start panicking. =)

Kheldar
09-25-2009, 07:24 AM
YESSS Des more Owls ftw :)

Welcome DesHusDruid to the world of the Owl :)


my bear gear still needs 5 epic gems. i put 85 ap on the new Marrowstrike.

how were u keeping threat on them all when he does full aeo ? is he well geared ? spec ? your AP ?

DM:G is awesome i think still.....i'd get another probably if i could see one for reasonable money. still seem to be 5k.

What's classed as super high avoidance/mitigation ?

Destinae
09-25-2009, 09:15 AM
Heya Khel, jotted down my stats, but left them sitting next to the computer. Was having a rough night/late morning and forgot them.

I'd guess anything above 50% dodge would be super high, but I really think you'd gimp yourself on stam and perhaps other stats to try and get it that high.

Not sure of my AP, but I'll post as soon as I can with the stat info.

Last night, H:UK was the daily heroic. I ended up grouped with a healadin and 3 mages- all decently geared. 2 Fire mages, 1 Arcane. The mage that challenges me is Fire, and has a 2363 Wow-Heroes score, so he's geared pretty well. (I personally hate WoW-heroes, but I don't know the first thing about mages and wasn't sure how to tell if he's geared well lol).

I'll get my info and post tonight when I get home. =)

Solarflash
09-25-2009, 11:05 AM
hehe, I have a bit of experience with this sort of mage...

Fire mages have almost no threat reduction talents, so in the world of mages, this is equivalent to a ret pally running with righteous fury up! Bad bad bad!

A fire mage with a gear score of +2300 and a decent amount of knowledge and practice will easily be breaking 4k DPS without trying too hard. Since they have little threat reduction in talents, this equates to ~4k TPS (very rough calc)

Most bears, in my experience, generate between 4-6k TPS on a single target, but swipe and maul cleaves are only gonna account for 2-3k TPS on your non-focused targets. This is where fire mage = bad. The mage is not only generating 4-5k tps on his focused target but likely 3k+ tps on the rest of the targets (LB stacking).

Kheldar
09-26-2009, 07:19 AM
my first bear heroic in drak we had a well geared fire mage and arcane one.

maybe the fire one was better at aggro management but the arcane one pulled more mobs and tbh does pull more most of the time even when someone else is tanking.

arcane one has a herors score of 2025
fire one 2670 !

not sure what threat i was doing but not enough, esp as my dps was low.


Well done another daily yo UK and was ok apart from high geared lock pulling some aggro. also my dps is only about 1k so need to work on that !

more STR/AP needed.

hmm and according to Heroes my tank gear gets a higher score than my oomkin !! tank gear at 2325 and its not all gemmed yet !

Hmm Question : Gem for Str or AP ?

PotP increases AP by 6% ?

Solarflash
09-28-2009, 07:50 AM
Hmm Question : Gem for Str or AP ?

PotP increases AP by 6% ?

As for gemming, I think you will still find Agi to bring greater threat gen than Str or AP. Unless you are deep into deminishing returns of agi (+1200 unbuffed, unshifted).

Yes PotP gives you an additional 6% AP when you shift into bear. More importantly is reduces your incoming damage by 12%. Its an absolute must talent for bears.

If you are struggling with threat gen, I definatley reccomend you take a few moments to watch the video from tankspot.com Its a bit of overkill in detail, but very imformative. I have found that having a macro for :/cast Mangle, /cast Maul on a single action key makes for any easy spammable rotation. I simply mix that macro with either swipe or lacerate depending on the number of targets.

follow link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HciHmfncLc0&feature=player_embedded

Destinae
09-28-2009, 09:00 AM
Heya Khel,
Here are my estimated stats- and today I logged out in my bear gear...

30-32k HP (depending on which boots/trinkets I equip)
27k Armor
40%-ish Dodge (depending on trinkets/gear swapping)
8% Exp
4.8k Attack Power
2258-WoW-Heroes

The only gemming/enchanting I do is for Agi/Stam, tbh. Almost all of the AP I have is directly from gear/weapons. I use the Undeath Carrier (which I'm head over heals in love with right now).

When you're just trying to get the feel for tanking again, there's no shame in asking DPS to hold off a sec so you can get a swipe or two in. I still do that on pulls I know I struggle with. Like the 4 guys around the table before the prince in UK. I'm terribad at that pull for whatever reason, and always ask my dps to give me 2 sec to get mobs attention. They're usually willing- especially since their dps suffers when they die.

Kheldar
09-29-2009, 11:06 AM
hmm not str/ap then solar....i am a bit surprised....

i will check my unbuffed AGI i know it is high....

if my AGI is very high then should i gem for AP for the buff it gets from PotP ?

indeed Des, i do ask them to hold back but all dps like to do damage :p (incl me in oomkin !) so they were doing some mob pulling on 3/4 mob packs. i must be too slow on swipe !

edit: unbuffed i have 1095 AGI.

Solarflash
09-30-2009, 07:30 AM
if my AGI is very high then should i gem for AP for the buff it gets from PotP ?

edit: unbuffed i have 1095 AGI.

Strength converts to AP anyway, so PotP will apply to the stat either way. It doesn't matter which one you go with.

Destinae
09-30-2009, 08:57 AM
Well, Khel, sometimes you just have to be "that" tank. You know the "You pull it, you tank it" tank. One of two things happens: They either let you get enough threat to hold onto the mobs, or they die. >=)

I can't find you on the Armory Khel =(

It seems like we're similar on AP, so it seems to me that it's just your dps is a little trigger-happy. If I'm given a sec or two to enlighten the mobs I pull as to who they should pay attention to, I usually don't have much trouble. Though, I did lose Cyanigosa in H:VH the other day to a warlock in mid-fight. We'd been having lag spikes constantly during the instance, next thing I know the dragon's trying to eat our warlock. -_- I reminded her who's boss. But I think that warlock might be scarred for life...

Kheldar
09-30-2009, 10:50 AM
cheers Solar.

i'm there Des ! i will try to remember to log out later in tank spec.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Bronze+Dragonflight&n=Kheldar

hehe lag spikes are a nitemare. i pull aggro a few times recently but it was due to tank lagging not my uber threat !

Kheldar
09-30-2009, 03:05 PM
have changed to tank gear and spec and will logout soonish in this Des......

Destinae
09-30-2009, 04:21 PM
Nice gear Khel! When you get that all gemmed up, you're going to be one beastly bear!

/jealous

You really could go either way with gems, also. For 5 mans, more dodge seems to be better, but for raiding, it seems like stam is the way to go. I think if I end up tanking later content, I'll end up with another set of bear gear completely. One for mitigation/dodge, another for damage-sponging. Sounds yummy, right? wtb more bank space O.O

Oh- and couldn't find you on the armory because I forgot the "eu." part of it hehe I should have more coffee before I try to function I guess.

Kheldar
10-01-2009, 05:40 AM
thanks Des...the changes to the badge system opened up for my bear some nice ilvl 226 gear.

if i stay feral i'll invest badges, incl EoT's in feral to.....

Nothing I have is hard to get so it should all be within your reach as nothing i have is actually from raiding.....heroics, AH and badges.

Even in heroics i know people like to see a lot of stam and given my dodge is circa 37% self buffed i'm to shabby in that area.

i still feel its my AP that lets me down so i am still thinkin Red sockets are Str or AP and not Agi ?

Destinae
10-01-2009, 02:04 PM
You could try strength, but you'd really gimp yourself on mitigation methinks. Agility=>AttkPwr as far as I know. Plus, Swiping with Crits hitting constantly = a load of threat.

What's your rotation look like? We have very similar attack power, so I'm wondering if it's a question of rotation?

I lose aggro sometimes on Multi-mob pulls when I'm too lazy to mark and every dps picks a separate target. That's always fun...but...

I'm tab-target happy...so...that might help out. I don't have a set rotation. I probably should, but I'm a bad bear. *hangs head in shame*

I've recently found myself completely addicted to Charge (mainly because it's fun, if no other real reason), so I FFF Mob#2 or 3 on kill order then charge Mob#1. Seems to work alright =) The split second of stun gives me enough time to swipe then begin my tab-target fun =).

One of the guild mages doesn't like my tanking because I'm "frantically alternating targets" and he uses some sort of targeting macro that, I guess, interrupts his cast when I switch targets? Not sure how that works, but I know I frustrate him. =) As soon as he says "ffs Des...just PICK one!!!" I know I've done my job for the evening. *smiles contently*

Kheldar
10-01-2009, 04:53 PM
its prob my rotation.

i was not tabbing to other targets merely swiping.

i do mark though.


well tbh he should be picking the marked one then if u are getting threat ok it should not matter which one he picks for 2nd :p

Destinae
10-02-2009, 10:55 AM
Tab-Target ftw =) It let's you generate more threat on more mobs. You can tab-lacerate, or tab-maul or mangle- whatever floats your boat, whatever's off of cooldown and whatever you have enough rage for.

The Glyph of Maul seems to help a lot- with maul hitting an extra target- there's one less you have to truly worry about.

In all truthfulness though, if you're marking- your dps really should be trying to stick with kill order. Nothing makes me more grumpy than when Square dies before Skull. lol

Kheldar
10-02-2009, 01:27 PM
hmm iwill need to try tab targetting then in future.

i was also reading some stuff today about how good expertise is for generating threat ?

it mentioned keeping your expertise above 26.

mines 27.

do people agree expertise is very good for threat gen ? and should i start stacking it now ? ie gemming for it rather than either agi or str or ap ?

yep damn sure i have maul glyph.


tbh Des i mark the primary for any melee dps we have...usually a pally and sometimes a rogue. maybe even a SP.

but a lot of the time we are aoeing. so they are damaging all the targets.

Destinae
10-02-2009, 01:48 PM
Expertise is good for threat gen because your attacks won't be avoided by the mob/boss. So, the more punches you land, the more threat you build on that target. I'm terrible at "getting capped" on any stats...so...

I'm probably the worst one to ask, since my on-server bear mentor says "Well what's better? Hitting like a truck pretty often, or hitting like a sissy girl but never missing?" O.O I'm still confused on it, but I think he prefers to hit hard.

Kheldar
10-02-2009, 03:32 PM
hmm ok Des !

Sytaera
10-06-2009, 07:55 PM
"Well what's better? Hitting like a truck pretty often, or hitting like a sissy girl but never missing?" O.O I'm still confused on it, but I think he prefers to hit hard.

I think your mentor might be slightly confused about how hard the difference is in your AP and how that relates to your threat and how often he sees this 'pretty often.'

I really hate to number crunch but think of it this way.

You hitting like a "sissy girl" is probably about maybe at *most* a 3% difference in attack power. Unless he's stacking strength gems and Attack power enchants for tanking in which I will, without any hesitation call him bad.

Let's say that his average melee attack is 1,000 damage but he'll miss 5% of his attacks. 5% doesn't sound too bad yeah?

So out of 100 attacks, 95 hit and 5 miss. that's pretty awesome and averages to:

95,000 damage.

Your attack for 970 on average and hit 100% of the times.

97,000 damage.

You win. =P

To make up for that 5% miss of attacks he'd have to do ~1021 damage on average which calculates to 51 attack power/5% extra damage. Before he claims he won't miss 5% of his attacks I suggest he looks at a parse.

Along with this being parried makes a mob parry haste which leads to parry gibs. Expertise reduces the chance of getting parry gibbed and increases the chance that more of your attacks will hit increasing your threat.

Expertise is an all around useful stat versus attack power which only minimally increases your threat.

Kheldar
10-07-2009, 03:59 AM
so Sy you would not gem for str or AP ?

would you gem for Exp ?

Destinae
10-07-2009, 09:00 AM
I don't like to crunch math either, Sy, but what you said makes way more sense than "Occasionally hitting like a train". Especially after seeing him in action again last night...missed tank attacks = dead lolretadins.

I shouldn't have even posted that, I think. But, being that he's been my "mentor" from level 12 on...I thought his word was the sacred truth =( So much for Durotanian bears being awesomesauce. *sigh*

Sytaera
10-07-2009, 07:39 PM
so Sy you would not gem for str or AP ?

would you gem for Exp ?

I wouldn't gem for expertise either to be honest. +20 expertise is actually very low benefit and won't give you really much towards any sort of expertise cap.

Your gem slots for a tank should primarily be stamina and agility. For yellow sockets I'm prone to using deadly ametrines (+10 agility, +10 crit) though if I want the socket bonus. For the most part though I'm a bit of an agility whore. Sometimes even with blue sockets I'll throw in the +10 Agility, + 15 stam gems versus a pure +30 stam, but this is preference.

Gemming for strength, attack power as a tank is sort of limited because it's ONLY good for threat. Versus Agility gives you crit, dodge, and AP. Strength and AP in general is something any feral druid should stray away from since patch 3.1 I believe. I always go for pure stats because Kings will improve that versus a +32 AP gem which won't scale with Kings.

Destinae, I'm sure your druid mentor is a good bear. I don't really mean to put him down and if he can get the job done that's great. I'll emphasize that while Hit and Expertise are important stats, you shouldn't compromise your gear to reach that (gemming, etc). This kind of thought process is really for more higher end game stuff. I.E: If it comes down between 2,000HP and 1% hit, go for the hit points.

When you're starting out, go for the basics. Stamina, Agility. It's still good stuff.

Even with recent itemization changes, I found expertise really hard to keep. I'm sitting at maybe 9.5% reduction which is still a good 4.5% away from cap. So it does become important but hitting parry cap is not something you should really heavily prioritize.

Kheldar
10-08-2009, 04:38 AM
Thanks Sy. guess i still with stam and agi as i originally planned to do...

Destinae
10-08-2009, 12:38 PM
If he's giving the "wrong idea", there's nothing wrong with downing him a little. His ego and my personality have been clashing lately anyway lol.

He doesn't worry about hit/exp because he doesn't have much trouble maintaining high threat, so he never put much thought into gemming or enchanting for hit. He didn't feel like it was worth gimping himself on stam or dodge. At least that's his present claim.

Sytaera
10-09-2009, 06:31 AM
Well it's always situational. I keep a stam set just for certain occasions and some hard modes. It just always depends.

I just want to say, yay though. I've been on and off breaks on 10s but last night we went in and finally cranked out Firefighter which was the last sigil I needed for the Algalon key.

zomg though, Algalon hits like a freaking mac truck. I'm really torn on how to gear for this 'cause no matter what I do, if the healers slip for a second I'm a dead bear. =(

Kheldar
10-09-2009, 07:35 AM
what sorta hits are u taking from him Sy ?

Destinae
10-09-2009, 03:04 PM
Grats Sy =)

And yes, curiously, what kind of pounding are you taking? Our guild is getting ready to start some new content, and I'd really like to know what we're up against before I go in there and get obliterated lol

Sytaera
10-09-2009, 07:07 PM
Algalon has this really fast swing timer sorta like Patchwerk and he dual-wields.

Main hand is on a 1 second swing for 15-19k damage and the off hand does another 10k so you're taking 25-30k every second or so. It's really stressful even with cooldowns and the fight already is really super healing intensive because there's raidwide damage along with the tank damage. Like every so often you need to blow up stars that deal 15,000 damage to the entire raid. It's really crazy, I don't envy healers in this fight.

Seriously the damage is crazier heroic ToC bosses I think.

Destinae
10-12-2009, 09:40 AM
>.< So then wait...for a fight like that you'd need heavy stam and avoidance, correct?

Also, is the hit cap for bears the same as kittens?

Edit: Found it. 295.2 Hit for bears/kittens.

But EJ says bears need 443 Expertise to eliminate dodges and parries O.O that's so much stat...>.<

At any rate, back to getting hit capped =)

Kheldar
10-13-2009, 02:57 PM
hmm i am sure i found somethinkg Des that said 263 hit ?

Sytaera
10-13-2009, 08:50 PM
hit cap was reduced to 263 back a while ago. For a while everyone thought it was 9% (295) but it's actually 8% (263). Expertise cap is yeah a lot to completely eliminate any chance of parries or block but you should work on reaching soft dodge cap first which is 6% before you start delving into parry cap.

Destinae
10-14-2009, 09:37 AM
If it IS 263, then I'm finally hit-capped and want to throw a party. =)

Kheldar
10-14-2009, 11:17 AM
i found getting hit was easy on bear gear ?

much easier than hit on my oomkin gear.

Destinae
10-14-2009, 03:21 PM
It probably is. But keep in mind I haven't been tanking at all lately, so my resto gear was getting all the attention.

It's hard to get nice upgrades for tanking gear if you're always stuck healing >.<

Kheldar
10-15-2009, 11:38 AM
my gear came mainly from badges so even when healing it would be ok as you prob sorted your resto gear already ?

Destinae
10-16-2009, 09:05 AM
They're both pretty much sorted out right now. I didn't have a lot of beneficial stats period when I had my pre-Conqueror's tanking gear. It was a mix of polar and trollwoven. Really bad stats for a "good" tank lol.

As far as getting upgrades though, I rarely get to tank, so I really only get to main roll on resto stuff. I get tanking upgrades as off-spec rolls. It stinks a little, but a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do, right?

Hit for casters seems to be harder to get for most of my caster friends. You guys just need so much of it...eek!

Kheldar
10-17-2009, 03:09 PM
yes hit for other casters are higher numbers although i have seen quite high hit on cloth items, esp the items u can get with badges or i've seen on the AH.

Destinae
10-19-2009, 08:43 AM
I need to send some of the guild casters to your AH then. Still quite a few that are raiding with us and aren't at hit cap...

Kheldar
10-20-2009, 01:23 PM
hehe....i will look and see what i have for hit.

one item that i only use til i get the hit in other places is that nice trinket that drops from VH heroic....Mark of the War Prisoner ?

Destinae
10-21-2009, 09:03 AM
But that entail me asking them to actually run heroics to *gasp* get geared!

If I'm hit capped, then I'm happy. They're on their own lol

Kheldar
10-23-2009, 12:29 PM
lol Des !

Destinae
10-26-2009, 02:36 PM
=) Des doesn't have time to babysit these days. I expect my raiding guild members to get their ducks in a row on their own.

Grumpy Guild master- amidoinitrite?

Kheldar
10-26-2009, 04:18 PM
ofc, u aint there to wetnurse them.

u is there to /roar :)

Destinae
10-27-2009, 08:44 AM
=) With bestial vigor!

Kheldar
10-27-2009, 09:05 AM
:)

Destinae
10-28-2009, 08:42 AM
OMG KHEL!

I totally main tanked Onyxia last night! It...was...so...FUN!

I usually find myself terrified to tank "strategic" fights because, well I'm out of practice. But the strategy we were taught by the guild we pugged in with (we being myself and one of our paladins)...it was sooooo easy! No good loot dropped, but you can bet your sweet paws I'm going to put together a 10 man Ony every week from here on out! Sooo FUN!

Kheldar
10-29-2009, 02:32 PM
kewlllllllllll !!

sounds gr8.

its one place i wish we could get enough people to do regularly on 10 man

Destinae
10-30-2009, 09:03 AM
It's not very hard at all. Ranged is your friend for sure for phase 2. I'll try to post info about it on LBT today if I can. I'm at deadline at work so I have to take care of RL first >.<

Kheldar
10-30-2009, 02:56 PM
yeah it was always a fun place to go in the old days.

but there again in the old days there was not much else to raid apart from mc !

Destinae
11-02-2009, 09:03 AM
Well LBT won't let me log in this morning so...

I think everyone does Phase 1 the same- tanking her on the wall directly opposite the entrance.

For Phase 2, everyone grouped up at the entrance. Paladin tank grabbed all the whelps right there, I grabbed the Lair Guardians as they spawned in the doorway. We had Caster/AoE dps on the whelps and melee on the Guardians. We didn't have to move much to avoid her deep breath this way (unless of course she lined right up with the door way).

I guess the hardest part was timing phase 2. She drops back down at 40% health, and we tried to time it so that I could run out and pick her up without having a lair guardian spanking me from behind. Our timing was a little rough, but the pally tank taunted the guardian off of me and I picked her up. Unfortunately, the hunter that had been running around got cleaved because my pickup was sloppy at best.

To cope with phase 3 fears, we had a one healer receive the priests Fear Ward, and a tremor totem to keep us from running too far. Good stuff. Easiest strat I've been a part of so far =)

Kheldar
11-02-2009, 03:22 PM
well i know its sacrilege to say it but i think i am going back resto this week..... :o

Sytaera
11-04-2009, 02:25 PM
well i know its sacrilege to say it but i think i am going back resto this week..... :o

Noooo. Feral for life, man. =(

Kheldar
11-05-2009, 11:31 AM
sorry Sy...i was always feral even when feral was not the spec to be.

i raided 40 mans healing with a feral spec !

but i am not enjoying it anymore and we have a couple good tanks who dont have healers or dont want to heal so i can be more use as resto tbh...

Elventra
02-25-2010, 03:20 AM
OMG KHEL!

I totally main tanked Onyxia last night! It...was...so...FUN!

I usually find myself terrified to tank "strategic" fights because, well I'm out of practice. But the strategy we were taught by the guild we pugged in with (we being myself and one of our paladins)...it was sooooo easy! No good loot dropped, but you can bet your sweet paws I'm going to put together a 10 man Ony every week from here on out! Sooo FUN!

i dont suppose you could share those tactics? my guild seems to sruggle with ony. we have tried a few alternatives but that breath seems to get us and on the whelps i can see panic set in. just wondered if we are missing something?

Destinae
02-26-2010, 05:01 PM
Hey Elven!

Happy to share.

What seemed to work for us was:

Main Tank drags Ony to the back wall. DPS/Heals shouldn't do ANYTHING until your MT establishes threat on her.

During phase two (this is when we usually throw heroism- to end it faster)...Everyone runs back to the cave entrance except for the tank assigned to whelps. He remains in the center. (He needs to keep an eye out for her deep breaths...that's pretty vital).

Casters/healers will want to take positions on either side of the entrance to her Lair...staying close enough to the entrance to be far from the whelp caves, but far enough from the Lair Guardians when they join the fun.

The casters "should" be able to AoE the whelps from near the entrance to her "area" with minimal movement. This keeps them from running around all over her little cave and getting hit by the breath.

For the Lair Guardians, we have our other tank pick them up right at the cave entrance and that tank + melee dps take them out (being sure to get them down BEFORE they nova - or at least move out of range of the nova). Since you're having these guys tanked right at the entrance, make sure that healers and squishy range are getting out of range of the nova also. We have these guys tanked here because it prevents them from running around killing squishies before the second tank picks them up. The tank assigned to Lair Guardians does NOTHING but pick them up at the door. Period. (At least in our groups).

So you have one tank assigned only to whelps, one tank assigned only to Lair Guardians- ranged assigned to AoEing whelps and melee on the guardians. (Ranged can help with guardians if need be). This seemed to prevent a lot of confusion for us- the whelp tank was responsible only for being in the middle for whelp spawns.

The best advice I can give though, as far as avoiding her breath...make sure everyone has an updated version of Deadly Boss Mods - when you receive the warning that she's taking a deep breath...Tilt your camera upward. She will go straight across the room...so if she's hovering in the North side of the cave when you get the warning, she'll go south in a straight line. If everyone knows to be aware of where exactly she is at all times, they'll be able to avoid her breath.

Some groups I have seen will ping the map where she is when she's about to do flame breath...I've been in groups where this has worked awesomely, and also been in groups where it has totally confused people.

Really, the key is to try and keep everyone from running all over- at least imho. If everyone stacks up at the entrance of the cave and moves very minimally to dps Ony and adds (whelps+guards), it's easier to keep everyone in range of healers...it also makes it easier for a tank to taunt an errant whelp or guardian if they lose control of them.

For Phase 3 - no one should be touching Ony until the tank grabs her, positions her at the back wall again, and has a good amount of aggro. Aside from that, NO ONE should be BEHIND her. People need to move kind of quickly after she drops in order to get into position- so that her first fear doesn't send you into the whelp cave.

Our ranged normally stack up tight against the back wall...far enough away from her that they won't get cleaved, but close enough that the fear won't push them into the whelps.

That seems to work for the groups I go into. If I raid lead, that's how I try to get the people to do it. If everyone kind of sticks together, it's SO much easier on healers to keep everyone up and tanks to keep track of their targets. I hope that was helpful and not incredibly confusing...the coffee wore off about 3 hours ago and it's Friday...lol If it's really confusing, let me know. I'm not known for my clarity...LOL

Elventra
02-27-2010, 04:16 AM
no, thanx that was great. our main tactic is to have everyone near the middle and they can run N,E,S,W depending on which way she goes for the bad breath. a big problem is our ranged/healers are not used to running and have sticky boots. i will put this to our team. (we are a small guild so we kind of have a set 10 man team) and propose we give it a try on this weeks weekly raid. atm we are trying TOC10 and it is our second week there. we managed to get the worms down last night with only 1 wipe and got lord jaraxxus down which is a guild first for us. so spriits are high and i think we can now take Ony as a team.

thanks for taking the time out to reply

E

Destinae
03-01-2010, 01:41 PM
Not a problem, El. Congrats on Jaraxxus!

Our guild doesn't even raid anymore. It's sad. I ended up learning that strategy from an Ony PuG, and it worked out really well, so I brought it home to my own guild when we actually were raiding. Probably would have worked were it not for people refusing to listen =)

Elventra
03-02-2010, 06:16 AM
Probably would have worked were it not for people refusing to listen =)


hmm. deaf raiders... seems to be a virus thats spreading...... some of my guild have come down with that ailment.. unfortunatly it is resistant to all our healers efforts to dispell!

tbh we only raid once a week normally and try to fit in the weekly 10 man as well. most of us are "maturer" players with families so real life takes priority.

hope you get into some more in the next expansion :)

Destinae
03-11-2010, 09:35 AM
Our guild doesn't even raid anymore. It's sad.

I applied to a new guild and was accepted on my druid. I raided with them for the first time last night. Amazing group of people! I learned that I will always be the first to die on Lady Deathwhisper. Go figure lol

Destinae
03-12-2010, 04:09 PM
Also, I pugged with a bear tank with almost 65k Health.

I have never before been so jealous in all of my life.