View Full Forums : Mana Regen Question


Destinae
09-30-2009, 12:29 PM
What's a "good" mana regen number?

Right now, unbuffed I'm at 573/295 I think. I can't recall what it was before I upgraded to the Conquest gear though. I haven't healed too much since I got the upgrades either. I was just wondering if that was decent or I should swap out some gems.

Kheldar
09-30-2009, 02:22 PM
a good number is one where u dont go oom and people die cos of it :p

Destinae
09-30-2009, 02:34 PM
I guess we'll find out this weekend if I heal our raid instead of tanking it. I may end up dropping a red gem for a spirit gem, depending. Or...instead of spellpower on the weapon maybe a spirit enchant. We shall see.

Hopefully I can find a tank that actually requires healing (the pally I usually heal for, well, he rarely requires much attention). When healing the pally- throw rejuv and 1x LB. Afk. Return to see loot. Rinse/repeat. lol

Kheldar
09-30-2009, 02:45 PM
tbh Des i cant rememeber wot sorta mp5 i had when i had a resto build.

yours sounds ok from what i think i had for heroics and a bit of 10 man. depends where you are healing perhaps....

i never gemmed for spirit, always spellpower unless i really wanted the socket bonus and then it was a something and spirit gem i think....purified dreadstone ?

i found the talents seems to give me more than enough regen capability....

Destinae
09-30-2009, 04:58 PM
I usually don't have a problem with regen...we shall see. I was just wondering what everyone thought was a "good" goal.

A friend has ~675/395 or some such ridiculous regen in caster form...but he raids an awful lot so...I imagine greater things come with greater content *pushes guild harder* lol

Nellie
09-30-2009, 04:59 PM
I guess we'll find out this weekend if I heal our raid instead of tanking it. I may end up dropping a red gem for a spirit gem, depending. Or...instead of spellpower on the weapon maybe a spirit enchant. We shall see.

I'd personally say that's a really bad idea. Nuts I logged out in my balance gear so I'm not sure exactly what numbers I'm at currently but 572MP5 sounds reasonable to me.

As Khel says, if you aren't running out of mana then you've got enough.

Personally if I'm not sure how it's going then I blow my Innervate at about 50% mana on the basis that'll take me back to 100% mana, I can pop a mana pot and then re-innervate later if I need to. If I'm doing that a lot then I'll swap my trinkets around to include the spirit world glass for an extra boost, but I really wouldn't swap Spellpower for spirit.

Kheldar
10-01-2009, 06:16 AM
i know at times when healing in a 5 man with all the various buffs including the pally BoW i managed to get over 700 mp5 and around 400 in combat regen.

a priest who sometimes comes on heroic runs with us has 1100 mp5 ! not sure of his in combat mp5.

Destinae
10-01-2009, 08:44 AM
I think the regen I have is similar to what I had before. I'll put on the old gear and find out if it's better/worse. With the heroes gear I was fine. It just seemed like there were more slots for blue gems with the old gear.

I also have some extra Emblems of Conquest, so I can maybe update some rings or trinkets to try and buff the spirit+mana pool =)

Raging Epistaxis
10-01-2009, 10:53 AM
I'd second (or third) what others have told you here already - you shouldn't really need to specifically gem for regen.

For longer (progression) fights, I've taken to using Mojo Flasks instead of Frost Wyrm, but that's really the only concession I make to greater regen. Currently Rhus is 622/365 unbuffed. Spirit World Glass trinket would also be a good option, depending on what it was replacing.

Oh, and like Nellie said: the 'new' Innervate takes a bit of getting used to. I also try to pop it around 50-60% mana, so it's back available before I really need it again. If I forget, and pop it just before I run out, and if the encounter runs longer, then I've actually (gasp!) gone OOM because it's not off CD yet.

Destinae
10-01-2009, 12:47 PM
Spirit World Glass replaced Soul-Preserver O.O

I'm still relatively unsure of my resto-druiding. I didn't know if I was "OK" as far as regen or if I was seriously lacking and needed to take a better look at the gear.

With my resto gear- I'm more apt to stick with the Blue Socket = Spirit Gem, Red=Spellpower, etc. I don't seem to oom too often and on longer fights, pop the spirit trinket whenever it's off of cd.

Another question- Since I'm not a raiding druid (at least not as much as I'd like to be), I've resigned myself to grabbing the emblem of triumph shoulders.

There are two options I could grab- identical stats except...
the cloth shoulders have a Blue gem slot and 59 Haste, versus the leather shoulders (obv more armor) that offer 59 Crit and a yellow slot.

I asked a friend- who advised I should pick the one that offers the stats I need. I'm not sure what I "need". More haste won't hurt, but neither would more Crit...

Are there Crit/Haste caps for healing? o.o We all know I'm terribad with capping things off...so...

Nellie
10-01-2009, 01:01 PM
oh blimey. generally speaking I'd say Haste is more important than Crit as a tree. Off the top of my head I think the cap for haste as resto is 655 to reach 1sec GCD. If you're running with a shammy and other classes that buff haste then the softcap is three hundred and something.

Crit doesn't hurt, especially if you cast a lot of nourish/regrowth but to my mind a normal raid or even 5man group will buff your crit more than enough for general healing.

With regen "enough" is not running out of mana with mana pots and Innervate on cooldown and I'd personally stack SP over Spirit/MP5. most of my heals are HoTs, the more SP I have the less Nourish, lifebloom and regrowth I need to chuck around to make up the difference so I'm using less mana to begin with by casting less spells :)

On most heroics nowadays I could have an MP5 of 10 and still never run out of Mana because I simply don't have to chuck out that many heals to keep the tanks or dps topped up.

Destinae
10-01-2009, 02:14 PM
That makes sense. I was just a little reluctant to grab cloth. It makes me feel like less of a druid lol (kidding).

To make sure I understand Haste- It makes spells "faster"- ie Healing touch would be reduced from 10 min cast time to 5 mins? (exaggeration, but trying to make sure I get it).

Would haste also affect other CD's... Like, swiftmend/wild growth...making them available more often?

I'm such a confused druid. Cloth Shoulders with haste+blue socket seem a little more "healer" to me, but you "could" take the Crit and Yellow gem slot (slap a haste gem in there) and go that way also...

Also, I logged out in Feral Spec with resto gear on (go outfitter), and have 404 Haste. That 59 haste has begun to look more enticing...

Am I gemming correctly also? Red socket=Spellpower, Blue Socket=Spirit, Yellow=Haste or Intel or some other "non-pure" gem?

Kheldar
10-01-2009, 03:03 PM
iirc in my resto gear i had about 600 haste. not sure on crit though.

i gemmed spellpower in red and i am sure the blue ones were a purified dreadstone giving spirit and something.

i like haste more than crit.

cant remember on yellow ones....will need to check.

Raging Epistaxis
10-01-2009, 03:20 PM
I pretty much ignore socket color for my Tree gear. Spellpower gives me more 'bank per buck' than anything else, IMO. Red all the way. At least until I have regen or mana pool size issues, then I'll do something different, probably hybrid gems with SP.

Fortunately, my helm meta gem requirement is 3 red gems, so I don't have to put any other colors in. [Ember Skyflare Diamond]

Hmm. Rhus' haste rating is only 152. I used to have 3/3 Celestial Focus to increase her haste some, but really didn't notice much difference when I dropped it to pick up a few more goodies in the Resto tree.

A while back, Resto4Life had a post about the interplay between talents, buffs and haste on gear, telling you how much haste rating you'd need to get down to a 1 sec (the minimum) GCD. http://www.resto4life.com/2009/01/05/living-seed-replenish-and-gift-of-the-earthmother/

Destinae
10-01-2009, 04:28 PM
Raging, I use Bracing Earthsiege Diamond (http://www.wowhead.com/?item=41395) for mine. 25SP, 2% Reduced threat (not that I care about the threat thing...but it was all that was available at the time).

I'll just stare at the shoulders until one of them makes me feel ducky, or buy them, try them on and make my mage-friend stand there and let me heal him til I figure out which ones I like better =) He's my healing "dummy"- as in stands there and lets me heal him until I decide I'm happy with the results of my experiment...lol (I keep forgetting I can sell them back so long as I don't gem or chant them).

Nellie
10-05-2009, 06:34 AM
The increased haste is far more beneficial, imo, for 25man raid healing as you're reducing the GCD which means you can cast more spells in the same amount of time. I've not had any problems at around 200 haste either tank healing or 10 man raid healing but getting 12 or so Rejuves down, topped up with wildgrowths and nourish is certainly a lot easier with high amounts of haste.

Spellpower is your number one stat to stack (usual caveats about balance and all that) at the end of the day, everything else is a side benefit. I do like my socket bonuses for the most part so I do tend to stack SP in red, spirit in blue and haste or whatever else I think I'm a bit short of in Yellow

Destinae
10-05-2009, 10:45 AM
I didn't end up grabbing those shoulders as I ended up tanking =\

Well...bouncing back and forth between healing and tanking...(I <3 having the effects of Flask of the Frostwrym on while I'm tanking >.<)

But I figured I'd get the leather, and they have a yellow gem slot- so maybe throwing a haste gem in there. Then I get some juicy crit AND a smidge more haste =) I just have to grab them now =)

Kheldar
10-05-2009, 06:57 PM
hmm i think u do need to balance haste and sp.

but i'd always gem for sp NOT haste.

get haste on gear plus maybe enchants....like for a cloak.

i'll gem for socket bonus if its sp...but not necessarily for anything else except to make sure i have the meta socket sorted.

Magellan19
10-06-2009, 01:32 PM
I'm a Spellpower junkie. My eyes actually gloss over and my heart does a little happy dance when I see my +SP go up.

I've recently replaced some of my +Haste and +Mana gear for higher level gear with better Spellpower.

And, I feel it. I feel it in a bad way.

I find myself using Innervate way too often and I practically scream in frustration watching myself slowly cast a Nourish.

I shouldn't have switched my gear the way I did. Not at all.

Spellpower junkie or not, I'm gonna have to learn to let it go - just a bit.

Destinae
10-06-2009, 02:57 PM
I don't think I'm doing too terribly on spellpower. I have over 2k. (Roundabout 2100 iirc). Haste is around 404, Mana Regen is 594 not casting (but the armory says I only have 18 mp5 while casting??...that can't be right...)

Anyway, I think I'll grab the leather shoulders and throw a haste gem in there just to see how it feels. I'm addicted to nourish as my "omg!" heal. Actually, I'm just addicted to nourish. My idol reflects this lol.

I completely understand the want for spellpower, but I also really enjoy being the last healer standing with mana to save the day if the fight ends up longer than expected. =)

Kheldar
10-06-2009, 06:01 PM
cant remember casting times but i was also a nourish junkie and it was pretty quick.

i know i used to run heroics with 600 haste. spellpower for healing was circa 2200.

damn, i actually find myself missing resto !

/hits self on the head hard at wot i just said !

Destinae
10-07-2009, 09:45 AM
lol Khel! This is painful to say, but I prefer healing to tanking these days.

I'm right around 445 haste now, 2095 SP, not enough regen.

My favorite healing moments are when Shammies pop heroism. Insta-cast Healing Touch FTW! XD

Magellan19
11-17-2009, 11:01 AM
I have something to confess which is not easy to confess to a room full of Trees:

"My name is Magellan, and I use Innervate on most Boss fights."

Kheldar
11-18-2009, 11:37 AM
oh dear Mag.

I am sure if you book yourself into therapy you will receive the help you need :p

Raging Epistaxis
11-19-2009, 11:19 AM
I'm right with you, Magellan. <looks around abashedly> On really long fights, I might use it twice.

I tend to be something of a SP junkie, so I suppose I've gimped myself a bit in the regen department that way. But hey, that's why they gave us the Mojo Flasks, right?

I can only count less than a handful of times that I've ever seriously gone OOM mid-fight though.

Dyrella
11-23-2009, 04:42 PM
I will admit to using innervate quite often during boss fights. Especially now with the shorter cooldown I will use it when I drop to about 30% mana. I do still have it glyphed, but was pondering switching out the glyph.

I use it like the BC theories on mana potting. Use it as soon as it doesn't over fill, and every time it is up. Because if you wait until you are OOM to use it, you will most likely be OOM again before the CD is up.

Magellan19
11-25-2009, 04:05 PM
What are your thoughts on Haste?

My stats are the following:

Haste ---> 227 (or) 9%
Mana Regen ---> 503 (286 while casting)


With these stats, I self-innervate at least once during an Ony-10 or Ony-25 fight. Sometimes, during a particulary long fight, other generous and more mana conservative druids actually throw me their innervates.

I cannot remember the last time I had mana issues - pre WoTLK, maybe?

What's a healthy balance?

OR - dare I say - I'm just stuck in a bad "rotation" when it comes to conserving mana.

/totallypossible

Kheldar
11-27-2009, 05:55 AM
i do like haste.

in my current healing set self buffed i have :

565 haste 17.23%
399 mp5 OOC
222 mp5 I/C

However i dont raid heal, only some 5 mans so its probably too different to compare.

I did use this build etc to do the small amount of 10 man stuff i did a couple months back in OS or Naax and it was fine.

With other buffs, like pally BOK or BOM etc i was fine and would cetainly only need t consider a innervate on a boss fight and not even always iirc.

Have you checked your talent build versus these other generous druids ?

Destinae
11-30-2009, 12:28 PM
Your stats are similar to mine on Mana regen...

Unshifted I have: 480 Out of Combat
249 While Casting

for Haste I have 501 or 19%

I don't notice that I oom terribly, but I tend to innervate when I have about 1/3 mana left so that it comes off of cooldown before the end of a lengthy fight. I also still have my spirit world glass, which I use every time it's off cooldown during longer fights. That seems to help a little. Perhaps you're carrying more than your share of healing responsibility?

Magellan19
11-30-2009, 02:58 PM
Wow, your guys' haste blows mine away. I'm assuming those are your unshifted armory stats (like mine).

A fellow druid (and amazing healer) asked me why I choose +haste over +mana. He figures since Druids mainly heal with their HoTs, we should go for +mana. But in my case, Nourish is my favorite spell and I've kind of gotten back into the Regrowth routine as well. When someone pops Heroism, I gleefully spam both spells and practically giggle like a crazy fool at my desk.

Perhaps you're carrying more than your share of healing responsibility?

Sometimes, I guess, in a 25 pug. But it does balance out when I rum OOM and have to (shamefully) wait for my mana to regenerate.

I ran ToC-25 the other night and didn't run OOM once, self-innervating (as a precaution) at about 30% like Destinae. I guess it really does depend on the group you are with.

Destinae
12-01-2009, 08:59 AM
That's the only thing I could come up with. I've been in PuGs where I almost literally just keep rejuvs on tanks and only really have to heal a lot when the stuff hits the fan or when there's a lot of raid wide damage. On the other hand, I've also been in groups where it seems like I'm the only person healing at times. I tend to oom a bit with those groups and find myself popping trinkets, potions, innervating a lot more.

And yes, the stats listed are my unshifted armory stats =) I'm still incredibly noobish when it comes to healing. I haven't picked up my emblem of triumph healing shoulders because I can't decide between the cloth with +haste or the leather with +crit. Both have the same stats except crit vs haste.

When someone pops Heroism, I gleefully spam both spells and practically giggle like a crazy fool at my desk.

^ hehe me too! "omigoosies! Practically insta-cast Nourish? Yes please ^_^" /giggle My husband makes fun of me because I tend to giggle a bit when someone hits heroism too...

Magellan19
12-01-2009, 12:27 PM
On the other hand, I've also been in groups where it seems like I'm the only person healing at times.

Ditto. In fact, I must share:

Ran an Ony-25 pug a few weeks back. I was the only tree and I was logically assigned to raid heals. I also threw Lifeblooms and Rejeuves / Swiftmend on the tanks whenever I had the chance.

After 2 wipes - and furious healing - I checked recount (which I try to avoid doing to maintain my sanity) but clearly something was wrong:

Out of 5 healers (maybe 6 - I couldn't actually tell), I was at the top with 40% of the heals and was 4th in overhealing.

40% in a 25 man?!? As a raid healer?!? We were doomed.

I stayed anyway, hoping for improvement, but my percentage only got higher (along with my frustration).

After the 4th wipe, someone in the raid actually said - and I quote:

"Perhaps the Tree should also start throwing some HoTs on the tanks."

I'd tell you more, but I think I blacked out after that.

/facepalm

Yrys
12-01-2009, 02:07 PM
Ouch!

Raging Epistaxis
12-02-2009, 10:08 AM
So for you folks with 5-600 haste, have you gemmed for it? or just select gear with +haste?

Like Magellan, I'm a far cry from that level of haste, but I'm reluctant to give up much SP to get it.

@magellan - don't you just love 'helpful' folks? "Hey, you're already doing the healing of two healers, but if you did a bit more we'd be good". Despite the fact you were already HoT-ing the tanks... lol

Kheldar
12-03-2009, 02:10 PM
my stats would be in tree form self buffed iirc.

i dont gem for haste its on the gear. i gem for spellpower.

Destinae
12-15-2009, 03:23 PM
Ohhh Magellan! *comfort* That's awful and I think I would have said a lot of unpleasant things at that point...and I'm rarely the type to roar at people...

To answer your question, Raging, I only have one haste gem and, truth be told, the only reason I have that versus a spellpower gem in my chest was because I sent epic gems to husband to cut and it was in the mix of what he sent back..so I slapped it in there. I mean, I got a socket bonus with it, so it's not all bad. Overall, though, I don't gem for haste.

It seems more and more to be a preference thing. Of the four restos I know in game, 2 of us choose haste over crit, the other two always pick crit over haste. /shrug I don't think any of us gem for it though. I'll have to see if I can track down some answers on this.

Magellan19
12-15-2009, 03:51 PM
I've been using the new LFG system (two thumbs up, btw) and I've run with some really impatient tanks who just /charge with practically no down time between mobs. But, I have to say, I've had no major mana problems since the new patch.

Raging Epistaxis
12-16-2009, 11:35 AM
But that's the odd part, to me anyway, is that I haven't consciously selected for crit or haste - I've just taken what comes on the gear with the best SP/spirit/int.

I don't recall the exact numbers I use in Pawn to weight the gear, but I believe it's something like this:
Mp5 10
SP 9
Spirit 8
Int 8
Haste 2.1
Crit 2.3

Unless I've just been unlucky with the haste favoring gear drops, which is entirely possible.

Destinae
12-22-2009, 02:52 PM
My regen is through the roof right now when I'm in tree form + a priests spirit buff...it's borderline ridiculous!

I still tend to lean toward haste, although- I'm starting to wish I had more crit on that gear. I have an embarrassingly low crit%...like...15% /shame

Kheldar
12-22-2009, 04:06 PM
i still dont feel crit is totally important for healing tbh.

i prefer haste/spellpower and mp5.

SmartBlond521
12-28-2009, 03:04 PM
@ Magellan, I too have tried the new LFG system, and have had mixed results. My last run thru ended up with me, 2 shammies, a mage, and a tank that didn't really realize that in order for the group to DPS, we had to have mana.

He got very :newburn: when we wiped due to the healer going OOM after the tank pulled the entire room. Oh well ... got some nice boots for completing the run :wavey: