View Full Forums : Druuid Post Patch Tactics


Maligor
04-14-2005, 12:36 PM
I posted this on the official forums and would just like to get some more opinions from this forum.

Given the current information about diminishing returns on our root spell that is coming in the near future I have had to start rethinking my pvp tactics. Unfortunately this change to our integral and only form of cc is going to put a strain on an already overstretched style of play that most druids employ(ie forms, roots, nukes, heals).

Assuming that the majority of higher level players will be able to break our roots and therefore become "immune" in the first moments of fighting with us leaves a large gap in our positioning. I believe there are two plausible methods to adapt to our new situation.

1. Feral - The upside of this is your survivability is superb between bear and stealth form. "Most" builds will incorporate atleast 21 pts in Restoration for the Nature's Swiftness talents. More advanced players may find they can micromanage combat enough to negate the need for this ability but its at the discretion of each druid. The downside to this form of playing is that your healing capacity and time spent in caster form drops so your overall usefullness in mass combat(battlegrounds) declines significantly. It's my opinion that being the last one standing in a losing effort is not a worthy goal.

2. Balance/moonfire build - This will be the hardest hit of the 3 specs but could still be worth exploring for some players. However this build will go from using starfire/root combo to a less mana efficient moonfire spam system. This would not be my choice as I don't like to rely on crits to hopefully pull through a tough fight. You are also still giving up alot of healing durability and your forms will become more of a drain on your mana than an asset in most situations. Lots of jumping around and spam.

3. Resto/Innervate - This would be my choice for post patch druid builds. We still retain our healing abilities and some modest form attributes with this loadout. The healing will come in handy for mass pvp but has tons more durability due to nearly double mana for one versus one. Still even with this build we have no reliable way to stop attackers so we can heal our friends. Just turn into cheetah and run away and hope we can put enough distance on ourselves to heal our guildmates before they die.

For myself personally I am going to load up with innervate and do nothing but spam moonfire in one on ones. If blizz wants to let everyone plow through our cc then so be it. There is no reason to not spam moonfire and go ahead and burn through 10k mana doing so. Everytime I see the message "immune" pop up on my screen that rogue will see nothing but fire from the heavens and the tail end of my cat.

10k mana = about 7k damage of pure moonfire spam with no ticks. Thats 250 sustained DPS.

Aitrus
04-14-2005, 12:51 PM
I think you're wildly overreacting. If you are spamming roots in pvp you should be rethinking your strategy anyways as this is completely unviable against everyone besides hunters & warriors.

Vs Warriors: we dont need root cheeze. We need to land 1 root every minute or so, to give us time to heal and get back into bear form.

Vs hunters: they will no longer be able to mana-sting us in forms, so we can simply use bear form and feral charge when they run away after a wing clip.

Furthermore the effect is broken if you wait FIFTEEN SECONDS to re-root. Why are you spamming 4 roots within 15 second intervals anyways?

The only thing this patch is doing right now is making us the most powerful class in the game via cat dps increase (rogues might get the edge for pvp since they are getting a similarly insane dps buff).

Nobody needs to redo their build as a result of root diminishing returns, that much is certain. This nerf does nothing to any good druid. Yes you COULD cheeze-root spam a warrior or hunter, and maybe a rogue if he has bad timing with his vanish/sprint but it rarely works vs good players. Hunter will scattershot before you finish recasting, warrior will intercept+pwn you if it breaks before you finish casting a fresh one.

PvP is all about bear form, not root.

Maligor
04-14-2005, 01:04 PM
Yeah that is the response I seem to be getting is that the bear form will deliver us from all situations. However when I am pvpin in group versus group situations then the bear is worth squat other than to keep me alive. I will have to start relying more on cheetah to keep some distance so i can get off some good heals.

Also its not just the immunity timer but I also wanted to mention the new root/snare breaking trinkets that are coming out.

Guess I will just have to kite more.

Aitrus
04-14-2005, 02:06 PM
Those trinkets won't be worn by very many people, only the top of the top pkers from what I understand. Plus they have to sac another trinket to use it, and I'm sure they have cooldowns on the new ones too.

In group pvp you can change the target of your roots to let the timer regen. Hit the warrior w the first one, then slap the warlock with one, then the warrior again after that. Of course there is usually a priest/pally there to free people from root anyways but still.

Using bear in group pvp is tricky. You only want to use it if you're taking the heavy fire from enemies. If they gang up on your rogue you gotta heal him or he'll be dead uber fast. In 1v1 its all about bear form, in everything else its all about smarts and teamwork.

King Burgundy
04-14-2005, 03:02 PM
Those trinkets won't be worn by very many people, only the top of the top pkers from what I understand. Plus they have to sac another trinket to use it, and I'm sure they have cooldowns on the new ones too.


Incorrect, unless they've changed something in the last two days. The trinkets are on the lowest tier of pvp rewards, ie, every single person will have them.

Whether or not they will use them is another matter, but I imagine most probably will have them swapped in a good portion of the time when pvp'ing.

Aitrus
04-14-2005, 03:31 PM
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/pvp/pvp-article-part2.html

14 Grand Marshal High Warlord Epic-quality weapon and shield
13 Field Marshal Warlord Epic-quality helm, shoulder armor, and gloves
12 Marshal General Epic-quality chest armor, leggings, and boots
11 Commander Lieutenant General Commander's epic mount
10 Lieutenant Commander Champion Superior-quality helm and shoulder armor
9 Knight-Champion Centurion Battle standard
8 Knight-Captain Legionnare Superior-quality chest armor and leggings
7 Knight-Lieutenant Blood Guard Superior-quality boots and gloves
6 Knight Stone Guard Access to officer's barracks, officer's tabard, and potions
5 Sergeant Major First Sergeant Superior-quality bracers
4 Master Sergeant Senior Sergeant Superior-quality necklace
3 Sergeant Sergeant Superior-quality cloak, 10% discount on all goods and repairs from your faction's NPCs
2 Corporal Grunt Team insignia trinket
1 Private Scout Tabard


You mean to say THAT is the trinket??!!

King Burgundy
04-14-2005, 03:45 PM
Yup, afraid so. :(

It really hurts me as a priest, as the rogues version of the trinket is a fear purge so that means I have 30 seconds of no fear at all versus a rogue, or a minute if they are undead. So yeah...I'm toast. ;) The priest version give a stun purge, but I really don't see that making a huge difference.

I'll adapt, but it definitely sucks.

By comparison I don't think druids have as much to worry about versus a root purge, since assuming it works the same as all the others its a single use every 5 minutes and there is no recast timer on root like there is with fear. Even with diminishing returns we shouldn't have much to worry about.

Aitrus
04-14-2005, 03:51 PM
I don't have the pic of the trinkets handy... they give 30 second immunity to a specific type of stun/root and are class-specific? i.e. druid might be frost snares, rogue gets fear, warrior/hunter get root, priest gets stun?

I guess in a way its cool for pvp, will make things a lot different at least. Surprised its so friggin low on the pvp rewards tho.

King Burgundy
04-14-2005, 03:55 PM
Not immunity, just a dispel. The reason you will hear 30 seconds bandied about a lot is that is the recast time on a priests fear spell. So when it is immediately dispel'd/purge'd by a rogue they will be free of it for 30 seconds. :)

And its multiple effects. I wish I had a pic handy, or I was at home so I could log in and look at one on test, but essentially it will be something like:

"Purge any one Root, Snare, or Stun effect" or
"Purge any one Charm, Root, or Fear effect"

and it has a 5 minute cooldown.

And yes, every class has a potentially different version, although I'd imagine most melee are similar, etc.

*edit* Here is a specific one, for warriors:
"1) Use: Removes Stuns, Snares and Roots. Cooldown: 5 minutes. "

Aitrus
04-14-2005, 03:58 PM
ah, well as long as they dont get immunity its won't make a diff to me, and I doubt I'll be using it.

As druids we can shift to break most stuff, so meh. The druid one should be "fixes a bug where shapeshifting did not break frost effects" :P

Gooby
04-18-2005, 10:45 AM
I wonder if it adds a buff like WOTF does. If so priests can just dispell it. Granted they still get that first immunity. If the rogues get the fear immunity one, that will be pretty hard to take care of an undead rogue. I guess it will make improved scream more valueable

Frizzlefry
04-26-2005, 06:25 PM
So, a few weeks ago someone made a post about how Root 3 pretty much worked the best out of all the roots. Is this still the same after the latest patch? Or should I start to purchase the newer roots. Any diff you think? I will be lvl 38 very soon. 4th rank root is around the corner.

Crimson13
04-27-2005, 09:43 AM
root 3 still works best...

Starky
04-27-2005, 03:49 PM
The trinket is awesome if you get jumped by a rogue in caster form.

Leafweir
04-28-2005, 08:43 AM
10k mana = about 7k damage of pure moonfire spam with no ticks. Thats 250 sustained DPS.

*sigh*

Moonfire spam tests. I opened with moonfire rank 10 and spammed the key for moonfire until the target died.

Caverndeep Burrower -- lvl 25
20.1s -- 2414 dmg -- 120.0 dps

Caverndeep Burrower -- lvl 25
21.1s -- 2355 dmg -- 111.2 dps

Caverndeep Burrower -- lvl 25
19.7s -- 2397 dmg -- 121.6 dps

Irradiated Pillager -- lvl 26
16.2s -- 2125 dmg -- 131.3 dps

I accidentally aggroed 3 on the next test, I used one tic to cast Innervate.

Caverndeep Burrower lvl 27, Irradiated Pillager 25, & Caverndeep Ambusher lvl 26

I had MoW up, was using my caster gear for these tests which gives me 299 int and 257 mana. At the end of the test I was completely oom and had do use my stick to swing once to finish the ambusher. So the total damage here is my full mana pool of 5449 + Innervate and moonfire spam.

52.3s -- 5415 dmg -- 103.5 dps

Irradiated Pillager -- lvl 26
13.9s -- 2075 dmg -- 149.1 dps

Irradiated Pillager -- lvl 26
14.9s -- 2159 dmg -- 145.0 dps

Caverndeep Burrower -- lvl 27
19.7s -- 2611 dmg -- 132.5 dps

So...

Sustained dps 125-150, not 200, not 250, not 300 or any of the other ridiculous numbers I've heard.

Blowing 5500 mana results in about 3k damage (I generally had about 800-900 mana left, enough for 2 more casts).

With innervate I can up my total damage to about 5500 and it takes about 50 seconds to burn through it all.

Note I have no balance talents other than grasp and range, so this is the base damage for moonfire.

I chose gnomeregan eliets cause they'd be non threatening while still having sufficient hp for good tests. (and it's close to IF)

Badgemagus
04-28-2005, 05:36 PM
Thanks for taking the time to test that out

Naturesbless
04-28-2005, 10:35 PM
That is cool
I never knew moonfire cna do so much damage