Wow, had my first tangle with a Shaman last night, at least a high level, I was a 57, he a 59. I really expected to do better, but as a 55 mage assisted on the first kill of this shaman, I was then camped. I was looking forward to some pvp and managed numerous times to get rezed remotely enough to eat and drink up. But I really couldn't touch him? I can't find what all spells this class has, but dang, anyone know? Seemed he could stun quite often, seemed he could see through my stealthed cat as if I wasn't stealthed, seemed he could chase me at near cheetah speed while stealted himself? I kited once to try to rest up, and he was nowhere in sight, soon as I SS to NE to cast a regrowth he just appeared in front of me. This isn't a Shaman are overpowered post, but rather one to better understand what they have so I can fight them better. Perhaps I was dealing with a true pvp shaman build whatever that may be and my resto build doesn't have the tools to counter that.

i'm fairly certain shamans can walk on water, if that gives you any indication of their jesus like abilities :).

If he was a tauren, then I'm sure he was using his war stomp also for a stun.

shamans do not have any stuns.

They have several movement-slowing effects tho: frost shock and earthbind totem.
They can also counter your spells with earth shock.

They do not have stealth.
They have ghost wolf, which allows them to move at 130% speed... it looks semi-transparent, but definitely not invisible.

As a druid you're basically screwed. Very few classes can beat shaman.

Your main chance is if he's an idiot and doesn't know what purge does. (removes enemy buffs... so he could purge your HoT's, your MOTW, your innervate, and even your nature's swiftness.) Otherwise you're basically screwed. 3.5s cast time on Healing Touch, he can coutner it instantly with earth shock. You try to run he will frost shock you, druids cant escape.

All you can do is try and get him to burn all his mana, but even then he's stronger than you thx to mail + shield + windfury.

One of the best PvP builds in the game would have to be a Tauren Shaman Engineer,
They get all the nasty Shaman abilities, plus warstomp, plus Catseye goggles, plus the engineer damage and stun items...

All you can do is try and get him to burn all his mana, but even then he's stronger than you thx to mail + shield + windfury.

I'm not sure, but if you get him to burn off all his mana, windfury costs 530 mana (or thereabouts). I've only beaten an even leveled shaman once and it was by basically outlasting his mana pool, then rooting and hammering... I doubt it would work anywhere near as well with the diminishing returns on root now.

OK, then, thanks, seems a tauren shaman is in the cards for me. Maybe as I play one I'll understand better how to fight them. I took on another today, he purged, used tricks that just ate my lunch. I jumped it when he was 3/4 mana and half health, he a 60 with the fancy shoulders, I a 58, mainly eagle specced now. Literally every single thing I tried failed. I did not get ONE heal off even after a bear stun/shift/NS/HT10. Frustrating. I know each class has a nemesis, I kinda figured the shaman was the horde equivalent to a paladin, I do better against paladins............

shaman > all alliance
Paladin > all horde.

Windfury does cost mana, but its a 5 minute wep enchant, which means he will almost definitely have it at the start of the fight and still have it at the end of the fight (much like we would with omen of clarity).

Versus a shaman nature's swiftness is the only way you can get off a real heal, and you need to bash before hand to be sure it works. Usually they won't purge the NS, but its possible if he has really fast reflexes and gets purge off before your universal timer cooldown is over after casting NS.

You can get the frontload of regrowth very easily, but 880 mana for like 1000 hp? very crappy exchange rate. He'll purge your HoT of regrowth and your rejuv. HT has 3.5s cast, plus him windfurying you means you'll get interrupted more, allowing the 5s shock cooldown to complete and get earth shocked before finishing your HT.

to sumup:

1. healing vs a shaman is damn near impossible.
2. melee dmging a shaman is damn near impossible.

Which basically means we have to kill him with spell damage, too bad shaman heals are more efficient than our dmg... I think its like 2.4hp/mana for their heals, and 1.7hp/mana from starfire.

Eh, paladins aren't nearly as strong as people say they are. They, like us, don't deal enough damage to be truly frightful. Also they lack mobility and they lack the ability to limit the mobility of others which is one of the huge keys in PvP.

They are very hard to kill sometimes, but you must consider the stories people tell about paladins "I had him nearly dead, then he shielded.... I had him nearly dead and he shielded again... I had him nearly dead the 3rd time and then he got me."

You realize this means that the basic damage output from other classes (not us) is generally 3 times that of a paladin? Hell a good rogue with crippling poison could kite a paladin silly, as soon as you stop trying to beat a paladin in a straight up fight, they lose a ton of their effectiveness. In the current environment speed, not durability kills, and they like us, don't have it.

Shamans on the other hand have access to mobility (ghost wolf), can control mobility (frost shock), have the heals, and do an ass load of damage (both melee and spell based) on top of that. They have simply one of the best casting talent trees in the game. They can be beaten, but yet again, that mostly has to do with non-standard tactics, staying out of range and praying that they're not too bright.

pvp with shamans can be a little intimidating, which is why I think there are so many "shaman are so overpowered" threads from people, it's just a matter of being afraid of what you don't fully understand. I personally have found that shaman are easier to deal with than some other classes. A few key points to remember when fighting shaman.

1. the instacast nukes are all on the same timer, so if they just hit you with an earthshock, they won't be able to use a frostshock on you for another 5-6 seconds, or vice versa. Use this information to your advantage when timing your spells and/or getaways.

2. They can't do anything but run when they are in spirit wolf form. When you see it, go full on agressive, because like our travel form, they don't want to do anything but run when they use it.

3. They wear mail and are limited in the types/variety of melee weapons they can wield. A shaman's melee dps is no better than a pallies. Windfury acts very similar to a pally's seal of command, as do all of their other weapon buff spells, they all deal about the same, to a little more dps than a pally's equivilant. The fact that they wear mail means they are more vaulnerable to melee attack than people seem to think. A shaman wants to get up in your face, but he can't stand toe to toe with dire bearform.

4. Don't let any totems stand. They use totems as a means to debuff/damage you, and buff themselves. anybody can despell the effects just by killing the totem, a weakness no other class has.

5. Save your interupts for when they try to heal. And they will, just like a pally, they are just as proficient at healing themselves, and a bit better at healing multiple targets.

6. don't be intimidated. play aggressive and force them to react to you. they can spend their mana either attacking you or healing themselves, hopefully you can make them use it on themselves instead of you.

7. Finally, remember that your cat's dash skill will go faster than their spirit wolf, if they are trying to run it's a great chance to get some backstabs in while they try to flee, but at the same time, don't try to stand toe to toe with them in the rogue form, you'll get your head handed to you.

and just a side note on the pallies. I see this complaint a lot, the complaint that they don't have any skills that boost movement speed nor do they have anything that will slow someone else down(other than the stun). People never take into account the blessing of freedom. It grants invulnerability to any movement impairing effect while the blessing is on. This makes it so without some sort of a speed boost, you CAN'T get any distance between the pally and you. I also saw someone post something about a rogue using crippling poison to kite a pally... that would only work on a pally that doesn't understand how to use their 70mana instacast clense spell to wipe the poisons. Blizz has done a fantastic job of making a counter to just about every move. Granted the balance isn't perfect, but it's damn close. There is a way around just about everything :D

kabaoum -

best post ever

I have to agree with Kabaoum.

The shaman is not un-beatable you just have to play to your strengths.
Purge can only be used every so often also so use this too your advantage sucker them into using it on Rejuvination or something then immediately recast it and you will get at least 70% of the value out of the spell before they can purge you again.

The key thing about druids is our survivability we can actually outlast the shaman and thats the aim of the game simply put just conserve your mana do not Nuke the hell out of them use Bear form and Tank them you will be suprised how well this actually does against a shaman and definately take down totems as they appear it is not too hard to change target hit the totem and change back.

Taking the shamans totems out really fast in about 80% of cases I have found makes the Shaman panic when they start to panic they start to forget to use abilities like purge etc which again helps you.

So far I have managed to kill about 3/5ths of the shamans I have attacked or those that have attacked me. I am only a level 35 druid atm and did have a lot of fun fighting a Tauren Shaman at level 32 he was 36 both times he took me on I killed him simply because he was oom and I still have 1/2 health in bear form and full mana. Needless to say I think he was very impressed after I beat him the second time and decided not to come back for more.

One other quick tip I have for fighting shamans is that I use a healing potion of some sort as my initial heal instead of actually trying to cast a heal. This can't be purged and adds a lot more viability to out tanking them in bear form. Just shift out drink and shift back you waste very little mana gain quite a lot of Health whilst they are gaining nothing really.

In summary do not underestimate your survivability the key is just to outlast their initial onslaught and if you can do that then your heading the right way for the win.

--Grenthor

Purge can only be used every so often also so use this too your advantage sucker them into using it on Rejuvination or something then immediately recast it and you will get at least 70% of the value out of the spell before they can purge you again. unless the spell changes at higher ranks, purge can be spammed in the same way that we druids can spam moonfire. I say this cause I spam purge in duels with my 28 shaman.

I think u are correct Kab..... I also have a shammy(lvl 31) an Purge has no cooldown.... Dont know if its the tedious lvlgrind or if I just need a break from my druid(lvl 55) but I seem to enjoy my shammy a little too much....

i have to agree with the posters here who say that the key to a shamans weakness is his mana pool.... Often shamans open fights by a burst of shock spells(frost to prevent u from fleeing, and earth shock to do some initial dmg)..... Throw along a couple of totems and any shammy's mana bar will decrease rapidly... If u can survive this chain of attacks your chance for survival is highly increased. Without mana, shamans are just really gimped warriors without any of the warriors abilites.... The outlasting is easier said than done, but several posters here have given good examples on how it can be done....

The problem is when u are facing a shammy that differs from the stereotype... Like myself... engaging an enemy, or in this case a druid( i play on a pvp server) il open with a frost shock to prevent him or her from escaping, then depending lvl ill throw out a grounding totem(slow effect) if he is +-3 my lvl or stoneskin(armour buff) if he is above 3 lvls... A mandatory debuff(purge) and then i'll let windfury do the talking(Rockbiter pre 30).... I'll earhtshock any heal attempts and purge hots... The rest of the mana is preserved heals... This is a simple(but very effective) pvp tactic that seldom leaves me oom..... The fights take a little longer, but so far i havent lost to anyone that is less than 3 lvls above me.... And I'm not an uber pvp'er....

So I think the druid vs shaman boils down to the same thing: Good mana management... Whoever runs out of mana first will loose... From a druids persepctive this means don't nuke or spam moonfire... Choose ur heals wisely and last but not least keep cool... Although you see one shock crit after another watch that healthbar and don't run... Chances are u'll have a larger mana pool than ur shammy opponent, or at leat more mana after he has shocked you, and as stated above that is the key to success !

a burst of shock spells

You can't cast a burst of shock spells all shock spells have the same cooldown. Shock spell cooldown is 6 seconds (5 with talents) not that long but they can't be chain cast. If you get frost shocked heal, if you get earth shocked out of a heal shift and jet till it wears off and you are out of range of the next shock that is very low range.

Shaman have a much harder time conserving mana than Druids do and the only way they can regen during battle is with a 5 hp totem. Their heals aren't very mana efficent so if you can get the shaman on defensive you will wear down their mana quickly. Purge can also not be cast on friendly targets, so moonfire dots will go all the way (unlike dots against priests or paladins).

Always keep a low level moonfire on your bar for fighting shaman and quickly taking out totems or a totem macro.
Totem Macro Info From http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-druid&t=75723&p=1&tmp=1#post75723

Moonfire
/script r=Spell_Rank; if (UnitName("target") ~=nil) and (string.find(UnitName("target"),"Totem"))~=nil then CastSpellByName("Moonfire(Rank 1)") else CastSpellByName("Moonfire(Rank "..r..")"); end

Example for a Level 60 Druid:
/script r=10; if (UnitName("target") ~=nil) and (string.find(UnitName("target"),"Totemf"))~=nil then CastSpellByName("Moonfire(Rank 1)") else CastSpellByName("Moonfire(Rank "..r..")"); end

Another macro for Moonfire (Totem Destroyer)- (Credit to Darke)
/target First 5-10 characters of Totem name
/target First 5-10 characters of Totem name
/target First 5-10 characters of Totem name
/target First 5-10 characters of Totem name
/cast Moonfire(Rank 1)

From Darke: List the totems in the order you want to destroy them, from least important to most important. Spamming the button will simply start at the bottom of the list and target totems, drop Rank 1 Moonfires on them, and work its way up until everything that fits the criteria is gone.

This macro has a couple drawbacks. Since it is based on the name of the totem, rather than just targeting any 'totem', it is possible, though highly unlikely, that you will inadvertantly target a PC with it if their name also fits the criteria. Also, due to character limitations, it is probably not possible to get every totem on the list.

I didn't consider the second to be a real issue since some totems just aren't worth destroying and some it won't work on (pay attention to which totems have MORE than 5HP).

By a burst of shock spells i meant hittin the shock buttom every 5(6) seconds(as fast as possible), not that they would be chain cast. The rest of ur post i agree with and has been stated by previous poster...

Except the macro... Which is very handy indeed