I was going to go for innervate, for raiding viability and the extra mana for long PvP fights. But then, I decided that I was selling out my desire for being a feral druid just because the feral tree is currently not so hot. So, I'm going feral, since I have a good guild that, I'm pretty sure, will let me play how I want to play. How's this look?

Feral Combat Mastery
Ferocity Rank 5
Improved Bash Rank 2
Sharpened Claws Rank 5
Improved Prowl Rank 5
Feral Charge Rank 1
Blood Frenzy Rank 2
Primal Fury Rank 5
Improved Shred Rank 1
Faerie Fire (Cat) Rank 1
Faerie Fire (Bear) Rank 1
Feline Swiftness Rank 1
Feral Combat Total: 29

Balance Mastery
Nature's Grasp Rank 1
Improved Nature's Grasp Rank 4
Swiftshifting Rank 2
Balance Total: 7

Restoration Mastery
Improved Mark of the Wild Rank 5
Furor Rank 5
Nature's Focus Rank 3
Improved Enrage Rank 2
Restoration Total: 15

My question, and the reason for this post, is this: What is the reduction in armor reduction from Improved Enrage? Couldn't find numbers for it. Also, any suggestions/constructive criticisms of my talent trees are welcome.

Overall you seem to get a little of everything from the feral tree, but in a couple areas I would patch it up a bit.

First off I guess you should make clear, What do you want to get out of the feral tree? Is it powerful survivability with bear to outlast opponents? Is it higher dps from cat form to go aggressive? It seem to me you try to get both but where is your focus? I would like to ask why you chose to max out Primal Fury but not Blood Frenzy? You will be criting more in cat form than bear. Honestly I don't have any problems maintaning rage. And with only 2 points in BF you won't get much benefit from it. I'm wondering if you are just trying to get points for higher tier talents, but since you capped off Imp. Prowl it seems you plan to make use of cat form at least as an opener. Same thing for improved Shred. 5 energy won't make much difference. And while our playstyles may be different, if you will be using cat as the opener(which I assume from imp prowl) ravage is a much better skill.

Faerie Fire is good to have. I think its a good strategy to have it for bear form. However I don't think its necessary with cat. To be honest when you are trying to spam those cat skills to optimise damage output, you won't have much energy to spare for a FF. I would keep it for bear but not cat.

The other thing is imp. enrage. This depends on your style. I don't use enrage much personally. On occassion I have used it with Frenzied Regeneration but it seems the points could be best put into more frequently used skills. And I haven't used it, but I'm not sure 3 pts is worth it for only a 36% effect of Nature's Focus. You're spending 3 pts for something to work less then half the time.

I would do this:
Feral
Ferocity 5pts
Imp Bash 2pts
Sharpened Claws 5 pts
Feral Charge 1pt
Blood Frenzy 5pts
Faerie Fire (bear) 1pt
Feline Swiftness 1pt
Predatory Strikes 5pts
Strength of the Wild 4pts (Predatory strikes and SotW can have a nice effect if paired with proper gear.)
Imp Ravage 2pts
Primal Instict 1pt
Total: 32

Balance
Nature's Grasp 1pt
Improved Nature's Grasp 4pts
Swiftshifting 3pts
Total: 7pts

Restoration
Furor 5pts
Imp. Mark of the Wild 5pts
Total: 10pts (50 pts overall)

The remaining point is a toss up. Not too many talents can benefit from only one point. But I would say either Nature's Reach (1 pt is half total benenfit) or Gift of Nature (1pt is all it takes). That last one point just really whatever you want.

You may wish to change it to suit your style. One thing is you could take the points out of Pred. Strikes and Strength of the Wild and put 5pts into Imp. Prowl and 4 into Imp Demoralizing Roar. It would lower your dps but would increase your ability to stealth which is nice for pvp. And Demo roar is one of those skills you use a lot in bear. I use it every fight. Up to you though.

Keep in mind this is gear dependent. If you plan on brute force +STR. +AGI is good for improving crit and armor.

This is just a build I threw together. I'm sure Kabaoum or Crimson13 could add more to your strategy though than I can.

Nature's focus: Ignoring 1 out of 3 hits for interrupts when healing doesn't seem that bad. The 3 points in there seem a lot more effective than the 5 points wasted into pred strikes for the meager bonus it gives (A. I think cat form gives too little attack power bonus, and B. I think the talent should give you 4/8/12/16/20% extra TOTAL attack power while in cat form, not just 20% of the cat form "bonus"). :(

And I chose Primal Fury over Blood Frenzy because as a bear, my rage generation just isn't too hot, compared to my warrior (granted, there's a lot less abilities to use rage on...but Frenzied Regen!). Blood Frenzy only makes those extra combo points on crit SPECIALS, not any old crit, and from what I've read, doesn't add very much DPS.

Imp. Prowl is mostly for pve stuff (though I'm sure it will benefit PvP in BGs and such), and imp. shred is because I want to up my behind the mob DPS as much as I can, since cat form may take a large chunk of my time if the group is fine on tanks (and my guild seems to have a fair amount of warriors and paladins already).

The two points into imp. enrage..well, they increase the benefit of the ability by 40%, as well as decreasing the negative (though, the longer time spent with low armor probably balances out the decrease in armor reduction).

On the other hand, freeing up those 5 points from resto (focus and imp. enrage) to put into feral would be nice. Once I get back in WoW, I'm going to respec and try my build, and then try out your and other people's suggestions and see which works out. Unless I put a point into imp. enrage and find out it's only like a 5% reduction or some such off the normal 75%...then it's going right in the trash. :D

I also see your point on cat faerie fire...I'm usually using every point of energy I can to pour out special attacks. though, with cat faerie fire, I don't have to leave cat form to decrease their armor (which helps in kitty form), and since I don't and won't have Intensity, leaving cat form or casting faerie then shifting into cat to engage (which ruins any chances for a ravage) drops my energy to 0, which is even worse than just using 15 energy for cat faerie fire.

They really should combine Furor and Intensity, Blood Frenzy and Primal Fury, and Cat and Bear Faerie Fire. With cat and bear skills so seperate, it's almost like having 4 talent trees instead of 3. And that's bad.

Ugh, I'm visiting the parents for the weekend, and I just moved into a new apartment back where I live. I don't get internet access on my WoW computer until the 26th. :( Stupid theorycraft!

Fiddling around:

Feral Combat Mastery
Ferocity Rank 5
Improved Bash Rank 2
Sharpened Claws Rank 5
Improved Prowl Rank 3
Feral Charge Rank 1
Blood Frenzy Rank 3
Primal Fury Rank 3
Improved Shred Rank 2
Faerie Fire (Cat) Rank 1
Faerie Fire (Bear) Rank 1
Feline Swiftness Rank 1
Improved Ravage Rank 2
Primal Instinct Rank 1
Feral Combat Total: 30

Balance Mastery
Nature's Grasp Rank 1
Improved Nature's Grasp Rank 4
Swiftshifting Rank 3
Balance Total: 8

Restoration Mastery
Improved Mark of the Wild Rank 5
Furor Rank 5
Nature's Focus Rank 3
Restoration Total: 13

Well you have a pretty good working theory to your build. To me that says your playstyle is coming through and especially knowing you have a warrior I can see where you're coming from on your choices. I totally agree though about the seperation of bear and cat. Not to mention that the bulk of the cat stuff in the tree is down in the middle and last tiers so its spretty difficult to get all the things you want.

Typically I don't cast FF in animal forms anyways. When I go fight I try to spam out cat specials as quick as possible to get off a 5pt Ferocious Bite. Then I'll pop out to heal/DoT/FF. Then its time for bear. That's why I never bothered to get it for cat form. I really do think though that you will change your mind on Blood Frenzy. Especially if you're making a lot of use out of Pounce/Ravage/Shred. But like I said its gear dependent. I got gear to emphasize agility first and then strength. I would say it seems like ravage crits 50% of the time and claw/rake about 30%. Shred however seems to crit at least 75-80% of the time. Since you intend to use shred a lot, you might like the gain in combo points from that. Bear crits for me are just too sporadic. Cat form I can at least get some prediction on the crits. While Primal Fury works on any crit, I just don't crit enough in bear to go that way. One time I went 20 minutes in bear with only 2-3 crits. Then I get 4 in a row off maul. Bear is just unpredictable in this area.

I'll tally it out next time I play and see what the actual numbers are.

I guess the difference is your setup to make the bulk of the fight in cat. Where as I want to make the most damage possible in the shortest time so I can go to bear for the long fights. Then back to cat for the finish. Predatory strikes does leave something to be desired but SotW was my objective though. 12% doesn't seem like much but with good gear it can add up real quick. And its good for both cat and bear.

I think blizz doesn't like us to use cat form or something. Practically all the cat talent is 4th tier down. And Furor is 1st row but intensity is 3rd in restoration? Why would they do that?
Hmm now that I play with the calculator, 3 pts in Intensity is a 60% chance for 60 energy. That's enough for a shred. What do you think of putting 3 pts into this instead of NF? I'm not sure its really worth it but its a thought.

Personally I have found that getting improved nature's grasp beyond the first level of it, is a waste. With one point in improved nature's grasp we have a 50% chance of rooting an attacker, and given that they will typically get multiple rapid hits off on us, that's an almost sure fire root pretty quickly.

Im very happy with the 100% rate. I have encountered many times where I have been jumped by multiple attackers (stealthed rogues) where my HP was at a point where I NEEDED to stop one of them in order to survive. IMO the 5 points invested in Natures Grasp is VERY well spent. 50% is not a sure fire root every 1 out of 2 hits. This is especially important with rogues who can stun or eviscerate you.

That 50% doesn't mean out of 2 hits, you are guaranteed to have NG land on one of them. What it means is just like flipping a coin. Heads it hits, tails it misses. Ever flip for half a dozen or more tails in a row? When I am running from something, it is usually because my situation is dire. I'd rather not depend on the Random Number Generator to determine if NG is going to land or not.

Meh, just my 2cp.

That 50% doesn't mean out of 2 hits, you are guaranteed to have NG land on one of them. What it means is just like flipping a coin. Heads it hits, tails it misses. Ever flip for half a dozen or more tails in a row? When I am running from something, it is usually because my situation is dire. I'd rather not depend on the Random Number Generator to determine if NG is going to land or not.

Meh, just my 2cp.
Yes you're right. But the typical use of it is surviving while running and a mob is hitting you from behind, usually a lot more than once. 50% doesn't guarantee it will proc in two times, it might not proc in 10 times. But it works for me, I like it. If you all like the 100% version then that's cool, I"m just passing on what wrks for me.

I went for the 100% chance as well. I needed 5 points balance to get to swiftshifting and .3 second reduc on wrath didn't seem worth it to me. Also, I hate things that are not reliable and having to hope something procs. I will take a weaker version of something that always works over a strong version of something that might work. Different playstyles is all it is and I am not much of a gambler.

i have 5 pts in grasp, but still rely heavily on OoC at times...i consider myself a gambler :).

So...does anyone know what the armor reduc % is for levels 1 and 2 of improved enrage?

Ok, since this post, I've decided to get NS. So, in being unable to decide between 4/5 intensity and 4/5 imp. rejuv, I threw a point into imp. enrage. It lowers the armor reduction from 75% to 70%. I also misunderstood how it worked before. I thought it *added* time onto your enrage time, making you generate more rage, but it just lowers the amount of time it takes to generate the original 20. Which, added on to the lowered armor reduction, results in even less extra damage. Yay. Also, with the enrage timer being less than 10 seconds, you can trigger enrage and immediately do frenzied regen, instead of having to wait a few seconds. I like it.

So:

Feral Combat Mastery
Ferocity Rank 5
Improved Bash Rank 2
Sharpened Claws Rank 5
Improved Prowl Rank 3
Feral Charge Rank 1
Primal Fury Rank 3
Improved Shred Rank 2
Feline Swiftness Rank 1
Feral Combat Total: 22

Balance Mastery
Nature's Grasp Rank 1
Improved Nature's Grasp Rank 4
Swiftshifting Rank 2
Balance Total: 7

Restoration Mastery
Improved Mark of the Wild Rank 5
Furor Rank 5
Nature's Focus Rank 5
Improved Enrage Rank 2
Gift of Nature Rank 1
Improved Rejuvenation Rank 2
Nature's Swiftness Rank 1
Restoration Total: 21

I have one point that I haven't decided what to do with. Either put it in imp prowl, primal fury, one of the shift faerie fires, or the last point of swift shifting. Maybe nature's reach?

I hate to say it but I would hate the enrage timer being shorter. Primarily I use enrage to keep my accumulated rage and generate more while going from one mob to another. Even with 10 seconds, it can still be close. Having less time would be disasterous for me and the way I play. However, I am glad that it fits into your playstyle.

Khareh, what do you think about this build? I think it's a pretty solid build. I had 1 point over, so I put it into Improved Prowl, but I could've put it in Gift of Nature or something else as well. Hope you like it!



Balance Talents (8 points)
-------------------------
# Nature's Grasp - 1/1 point
While active, any time an enemy strikes the caster, they have a 35% chance to become afflicted by Entangling Roots (Rank 1). Only usable outdoors. 1 charge. Lasts 45 seconds.

# Improved Nature's Grasp - 4/4 points
Increases the chance for your Nature's Grasp to entangle an enemy by 65%.

# Swiftshifting - 3/3 points
After leaving a shapeshift form, reduces the casting cost of the next shapeshift by 60% if used with 6 seconds.



Feral Combat Talents (22 points)
-------------------------------
# Ferocity - 5/5 points
Reduces the cost of your Maul, Swipe, Claw, and Rake abilities by 5 Rage or Energy.

# Improved Bash - 2/2 points
Increases the stun duration of your Bash ability by 1 second.

# Sharpened Claws - 5/5 points
Increases your critical strike chance while in Bear or Cat form by 5%.

# Feral Charge - 1/1 point
Causes you to charge an enemy, stopping its movement and interrupting any spell being cast for 4 seconds.

# Improved Prowl - 3/5 points
Reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while Prowling. More effective than Improved Prowl (Rank 2)..

# Blood Frenzy - 5/5 points
Your critical strikes from Cat form abilities that add combo points have a 100% chance to add an additional combo point.

# Feline Swiftness - 1/1 point
Increases your movement speed by 30% while in Cat form. Only active outdoors.



Restoration Talents (21 points)
------------------------------
# Furor - 5/5 points
Gives you a 100% chance to gain 10 Rage when you shapeshift into Bear form.

# Improved Mark of the Wild - 5/5 points
Increases the effects of your Mark of the Wild spell by 35%.

# Nature's Focus - 5/5 points
Gives you a 60% chance to avoid interruption caused by damage while casting the Healing Touch or Regrowth spells.

# Improved Rejuvenation - 5/5 points
Increases the effect of your Rejuvenation spell by 15%.

# Nature's Swiftness - 1/1 point
When activated, your next Nature spell becomes an instant cast spell.