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Astrel
06-29-2005, 02:42 PM
HUNTERS.

Yeah, despite how Druids typically do pretty well against them. Yesterday I had to deal with the worst possible duel, a Duel I didn't fighting in, because I spent the entire time feared. Maybe it was badluck, I don't know, but I was feared 5 times in one duel, each fear, lasted 15 seconds or longer. Where the hell is DIMINISHING RETURNS? Everytime I went into feral I was feared, and the Hunter had time to Bandage up, and wing clip, and the entire time I am feared the pet is attacking. =/. Not a gripe about losing, but hell, everyone's fear is under diminishing returns why is it I am feared 5 times for 15 seconds in a duel. 3/4's of that duel I spent unable to control my own character, until I was pretty much feared OUT of the duel (It said I ran away =/).

Lawdawg
06-29-2005, 03:10 PM
The problem is you shouldn't be going to animal form versus a hunter (regardless of how you are specced.) I'm not uber-experienced with Druids (mine is only 48) but I have read and use successfully the following PvP strat vs hunters:

Stay caster form
hibernate their pet
close in on them, staying close as much as possible
while you are closing in on them hit them with moonfire/faerie fire
put up natures grasp (hoping to root them and keep them pinned)
swing away in caster form
when low on hit points heal yourself
also re-moonfire but don't burn through all of your mana
re-hibernate pet as necessary

With that strat you should be able to win almost all the time do to the simple fact that you can heal and they can't. Also, don't forget to hit remove/abolish poison when/if they use the mana-drain shot.

Obviously there is more to the fight, but those are the general mechanics of it.

Badgemagus
06-29-2005, 03:38 PM
Contrary to Lawdawg's post I always go bear. As soon as the duel starts I like to hybernate the pet. ALTHOUGH, I find the pet to be a good source of rage for me while I am chasing down the hunter. Hunters NEED to kite to survive. If we get them within melee range, we do some serious hurt to them. Feral Charge is our biggest weapon against hunters as it closes the distance they have and keeps them from using their ranged weapons on us. Hunters can not compete with us by any means up close.

I dont know about what happend to you Astrel but, I've never had a problem with being feared too many times since diminishing returns. Maybe he was just doing all the right things.

Astrel
06-29-2005, 05:54 PM
Going Feral against a Hunter has always worked. This is only once this has happened, but it was the most annoying fight, when I had no control 75% of the time. I was feared, he bandaged, the fighting pretty much reset 5 times. If I was faster, It would have been over even sooner. Trying to Hibernate the pet doesn't always work (they sometimes break free very early). Typically I ignore the pet and let thorns take of them. Feral Charge when they Wing Clip, but this fight was nothing but *fear*, *fear*, *fear*, *fear*, *fear*. He didn't attack but maybe a few times, all he did was fear me until it said I had ran from the duel.

I know this guys wasn't doing all the right things, because I've had good Hunter's take me out before I can even get started in a duel. It's mostly annoying because I was feared to the point where I literally just did /sit, and he ran up and feared again of course.

Badgemagus
06-29-2005, 06:43 PM
You were probably fighting a 10 year old. It's summer time. :P

Pray
06-29-2005, 07:07 PM
I heard that you can remove the fear effect if you shift out of form while feared. Havent tried it myself.

Kabaoum
06-29-2005, 07:59 PM
I don't think you can shift out of form while your feared, however feral charge and bearstun make it difficult for a hunter to get a fear off vs. me. I've never had any issues with hunts and hunter fear :/

Darleeg
07-15-2005, 11:42 AM
Start off the duel in cat stealthed.
Target the pet, Pop out, sleep the pet.
If he uses a flare, doesn't matter, your intent is to sleep the pet without having to channel and so the hunter doesn't start off with a trap on top of you.

Run around and get that hunter kiting/running, you want to avoid where the hunter was standing at the beginning of the fight, there's an Ice trap, and if there isn't, pretend like there is.

I too fight them mostly in bear, when I see them casting fear beast I switch to caster (when low on rage) or hit bear regen or bash.

It's very easy to spot casting Fear beast, it's glowing black crap coming from their hands, it has a cast time and cooldown, so you want to beat it with instants.

If they get it off somehow (scatter shot followed by fear beast), I come back feral charging. You can also close the gap with cat-dash/or cheetah shapeshifting to beat the concusion with abolish poison on to avoid your mana from going away.

They still have a dead zone, so you will want to exploit it until it gets changed. Root the hunter, sleep the pet (have thorns turned off.) Good to make the attempt, but dont rely on it. Some hunters pets can break sleep easy. I've seen druids that try to channel sleep the whole fight and get rediculously owned.

I've had duels end with me low on health, jumping around forcing the pet to path as I finished the hunters remaining hp with a couple moonfires.

A good mix of feral and caster for the win.

Darleeg

Kebster
07-15-2005, 01:39 PM
Usually most hunters forget that they have fear beast...so dueling in bear is fine sometimes..

Myself, I never shift vs a hunter, i just keep rejuv up and cure the serpent sting when its up and melee him to death. I try to start off with hibernate on the pet, but after that I usually just keep it control with nature's gasp.

Keep rejuv up and moonfire on the hunter and stay withen range and he will be dead in no time.

guice
07-15-2005, 01:56 PM
Keep rejuv up and moonfire on the hunter and stay withen range and he will be dead in no time.If you can find a way to stay within 4-8 feet, they'll be useless. One thing about Hunters is that there is a sizeable gap between their ability to use range and the ability to melee.

Kebster
07-15-2005, 07:28 PM
within range as in within melee range =)

goa
07-16-2005, 07:21 AM
If you are NE.. start the duel shadowmelded (yes you read right). hibernate the pet. the hunter will by now have distance on you.. bear form charge! if the hunter starts casting a spell, 99% it is scare beast.. no worries.. just pop out of bear.

Kabaoum
07-20-2005, 01:00 PM
If you are NE.. start the duel shadowmelded (yes you read right). hibernate the pet. the hunter will by now have distance on you.. bear form charge! if the hunter starts casting a spell, 99% it is scare beast.. no worries.. just pop out of bear.

That's how I handle hunter fights, if I see em casting I shift out of animal(unless i'm mistaken, the fear animal spell is the only "spell" they have, everything else they use is either a channeled pet spell, or some sort of weapon based attack with no casting time) There is no diminished returns on the hunter's fear animal, because you can make yourself immune to it by shifting out before they cast it :P

Ciwt
07-21-2005, 08:29 AM
when i loose to many times to my hunter mate, the only hunter that i lost too..( he is.. good )

I just natures grasp on, innervate and moonfire spam him to death :) It works all the time, just remember to run at him all the time. you will only heal once, and thats your instant HT. otherwise, if you screw up like.. ice trap, he got aimed shot crit and such, just bear, feral charge, stun for 5 secs, and then continue spamming him :p

Ofc its a boring tactic, but it works

Anger
07-26-2005, 10:48 AM
I have a Level 60 Hunter and a 48 Druid.

Everyone has stated the correct things to do thoroughout this post, except no one has mentioned:

Aspect of the Wild - http://www.thottbot.com/?sp=20190

Any Hunter who uses this, definitely has a greater chance of winning against us. Your roots and Hibernates don't last NEARLY as long, will be resisted more often, and the pet will cause Cast interruption.

However, AotW is a group buff and most Hunters will not be using it unless they're ready for you. Many Hunters keep Aspect of the Hawk on 24/7. Additionally, lucky for us, most Hunters are unaware of this Aspect's power against the Druid.

1. Scare Beast has a 1.5 second cast with dark circles on the Hunter's hands as an animation. You should see it coming and shift out.

2. Utilize the Hunter's Dead Zone. Someone mentioned this. There is a 4-6 yard range where the Hunter can neither melee, nor shoot from range. Hibernate the pet, root the Hunter, stand here, and fire off Starfire, Fairie Fire, etc. They will more than likely Scattershot you, but it only lasts 4 seconds and you can always re-root them and heal yourself once it wears off. If you are in Feral, Scattershot will give them enough time to Fear you.

3. Remove Viper Sting as soon as it's fired on you. The Hunter has the poorest mana pool of the classes who use mana. If they spam Viper Sting, which costs them a crapload of mana, they will go oom toot-sweet, taking away their special shots and special melee attacks. Smart Hunters will not spam it. Simply Remove it when you see it used.

4. Feral Charge helps to close that distance, but a Survival specced Hunter wearing Mail will last long enough to come out of the stun to re-gain range and kite you. The Hunter melee, especially if it the Hunter is Survival Specced with a good melee weapon, is quite effective for re-gaining range and does cause comparable damage.

5. The Tauren Druid, IMHO, once the battle begins, has a better chance. The extra stun can keep the Hunter close for en extra whack or two.

6. If the Hunter Freeze-traps you, uses Aspect of the Wild, and uses a fast-attack speed pet + a well-timed Scattershot, and they know what they're doing, it's pretty much over for you, the key being the Freezing Trap, which gives them time to Bandage, pull back an Aimed Shot, etc. If you're fighting a Tauren Hunter you have it even harder because Warstomp is that one extra stun that interrupts your casting.

Hope this helps.

Badgemagus
07-26-2005, 12:47 PM
A good hunter knows to switch between aspects while fighting. Unfortunately only about 1% of hunters I have fought know how to use their class to its full potential.

I dont think a survival hunter stands much more of a chance againts a Druid w/ Feral Charge. Feral Charge has a 10 second cooldown and roots the chargee for 4 seconds. This gives the hunter 6 seconds to kite. Even with aspect of the cheetah, 6 seconds will not get the hunter far enough to escape the feral charge. A hunter up close is a dead hunter. Even if a hunter did manage to get decent distance with AotC, I would learn to shift into cheetah to stay close and shift back to bear to feral charge him again and plow through his armor. A hunter's mail cant compete in any way with the armor of dire bear, and I've met some hunters with absolutely pathetic ammounts of HP. Im talking like 2k.

Anger
07-26-2005, 01:36 PM
A good hunter knows to switch between aspects while fighting. Unfortunately only about 1% of hunters I have fought know how to use their class to its full potential.

I dont think a survival hunter stands much more of a chance againts a Druid w/ Feral Charge. Feral Charge has a 10 second cooldown and roots the chargee for 4 seconds. This gives the hunter 6 seconds to kite. Even with aspect of the cheetah, 6 seconds will not get the hunter far enough to escape the feral charge. A hunter up close is a dead hunter. Even if a hunter did manage to get decent distance with AotC, I would learn to shift into cheetah to stay close and shift back to bear to feral charge him again and plow through his armor. A hunter's mail cant compete in any way with the armor of dire bear, and I've met some hunters with absolutely pathetic ammounts of HP. Im talking like 2k.
Excellent points, and what you mention here are great tools to keep in the arsenal.

My only caveat to this is with your math on the "6 seconds to kite". That is only accurate if the Hunter does not use or have available Scattershot + Scare Beast, nor does not use or have available FD + Freezing Trap. Additionally Orc Hunters (like me ;) ), since they fixed the Racial, have a greater resistance to stun.

Additionally, if it's a Beast Mastery Specced Hunter with Spirit Bond (very common on PvE Servers), that low HP can be very deceiving.

Nonetheless, our Surviveabilty will usually prevail.

Kabaoum
07-26-2005, 02:54 PM
Additionally Orc Hunters (like me ;) ), since they fixed the Racial, have a greater resistance to stun.

unlike a warrior's intercept or battle charge, bear charge does not stun, it hits the target with an immobalization debuff and interupts casting.

Anger
07-26-2005, 02:58 PM
unlike a warrior's intercept or battle charge, bear charge does not stun, it hits the target with an immobalization debuff and interupts casting.
Did not know that. I'll make a mental note of this.

Guess that's what I get for being a Restoration Druid.