View Full Forums : Druid vs. Rogue


Bruzey
10-04-2005, 06:50 PM
First post, how's it going everyone. I have a level 35 druid on a PvP server that I have been playing recently, and a level 49 Rogue on a PvE server.

I played my rogue when the game first game out, and never got into the whole PvP scene, because battlegrounds wasn't even out at the time.

Now, I'm playing my druid and enjoying it a lot, but I've been running into some problems while PvP'ing. I'm decent at battlegrounds, probably because there is so much confusion all the time that I can't suck that bad if I tried.

So I was around Alterac, and I see this level 33 Rogue beating up an Ogre. Cat form, stealth, ravage, rake -> Caster Form, moonfire....and then that's when I got stunned and completely raped.

I think I started out good...I raked so she wouldn't vanish, switched it back into caster form for some spell damage, but after I got the jump on her, she turned around and killed me in about 5 seconds.

I try it again, same thing happens.




I really need some help vs. Rogues, they seem to be my biggest problem in PvP.

Any suggestions?

Astrel
10-04-2005, 07:24 PM
Bear Form right after you Ambush her. Otherwise you are no better off than a cloth wearer. Bear form is your only way of surviving long enough to damage a Rogue. She beat you because even at low levels she has the ability to perfom a number of a stuns on you to stop your movement/attacks/healing all together. For me, I have improved Bash talent so that my stun is 4 seconds, when I hit them with it the fight literally resets in my favor (unless they Blind/Bandage) because I shift out, apply Regrowth and Rejuvination, and shift back into Bear. Also make sure you hit them with Fairie Fire, I forget if they are able to Vanish with it up, but they sure can't restealth if they get out of combat with you somehow (I've had rogues do this while dueling).

Also Rogues are pretty much masters of 1 vs 1 fighting, as long they have the chance to get behind you they can control the fight.

Rockwell
10-04-2005, 08:13 PM
Rogues are gonna beat you... but far from every time. If you get the jump, you should win alot more often then not. Ravage is good and rip will break stealth aslong as it ticks... but roots and faire fire are a really great opening. Astrel is right about bear form... and for the love of god thorns. I watched some guys pvp video.. he has 2 rogue fights that last over 3 mins... the damage thorns woulda done in that time is outstanding... particularly to a low hp rogue.

Gear is another issue.. at 35 you can get the BEST anti-rogue armor there is Green Whelp Armor

http://www.thottbot.com/index.cgi?i=12103

I still use it at 60 sometimes.... get it get it get it... did I mention to get it? Staff of Protection is also low 30's... forget what level, but you can buy it from the Superior Weapon Vendor in Booty Bay.

Dr. Woo
10-05-2005, 06:24 AM
Roots.

I saw a lv 28 druid absolutely WRECK SHOP against a 32 rogue yesterday thanks to entangling roots. She started in bear to withstand the burst DPS, then as she went on she bashed, shifted, rooted, moon/faerie fire, then healed. Then shifted to cat and it was all over...she had around 65-70% health left.

She's REAL good.

Bovus
10-05-2005, 01:17 PM
Whenever I see a rogue - I FF first, root second, then decide what I'm going to do. Moonfire isn't bad either.

At high levels, even in Dire Bear form, your average geared Rogue will still kick your butt pretty quick. Ones with Improved Gouge, Dagger Combat specd, and a high hitting dagger are especially dangerous.

There is no good reason to try and stand Toe-to-Toe with a rogue or warrior.

Bruzey
10-05-2005, 06:02 PM
Thanks for the tips everyone. My one problem is definitely my gear, because I don't buy absolutely anything, ever. All I'm wearing is what I get from drops and quests, because I'm saving for my mount.

Should I forget about getting the mount right at 40 and focus on gear at this point? Travel form is only 20% less speed than a mount anyways.

Fendicano
10-05-2005, 09:49 PM
Mount is worth that 20%, can help you run down someone who is fleeing (esp if they have something to escape roots). If I am stealthed when I run up on a rogue, I generally just get within cast range and FF, then root (which prevents the vanish escape). As I have stated in previous posts, I'm balance specc'd, so I just sit there and hammer at them with SF until the roots break, then MF, FF (making sure they stay unstealthed still), bear. When I get low on health, bash, roots, move in casting range, heal, lather, rinse, & repeat.

With this strat, the shift lets you get back up on the mana, I usually use frenzied regen on my first bear shift to get the most out of it. Using enrage = bad idea. I have got to where I don't lose to rogues as long as they aren't more than 2 levels higher than me.

Falloraan
10-06-2005, 10:31 AM
There is no good reason to try and stand Toe-to-Toe with a rogue or warrior.I don't necessarily agree with that. I will own most warriors or rogues using bear/frenzy regen/bash/regrowth/bear/NS+HT (if necessary). I could probably kill em just as quick root/kiting, but I'd end the match OOM. The other way I am near FM, and ready for more. The only exception to that for me is when I am going 1-on-1 with the top geared horde warrior. My melee is pathetic on him due to his gear, and the only way I can beat him is to root/rot/nuke him a lot to set him up for melee. I say the only way, but I've never actually beaten him 1-on-1. Last time we went against each other it was the last person to get a swing in, he literally killed me when he was at 1% health. The horde frequently leaves him alone to guard a node in AB, so I've gotten lots of practice on him :)

Starfire
10-07-2005, 01:27 PM
Gear is another issue.. at 35 you can get the BEST anti-rogue armor there is Green Whelp Armor

http://www.thottbot.com/index.cgi?i=12103


Hahahaha. Gosu.

gwmort
12-04-2005, 02:36 PM
I want to thank Rockwell for tipping me off to the Green whelp Armor! I just got it a couple of days ago at the AH, and am loving every minute of it. I'm putting the +100 mana enchant on it (balance specced). Groups of mobs are just not a problem any more, and best part the PROC WORKS IN FORMS!

It also seems to proc a lot more than you would expect at just 5%. Whenever I have two or three mobs wailing on my bear, one or two of them will sleep (especially if they have a quick attack like cats or raptors).

And I have used it dueling rogues and they hate it! I bear up and wait for the initial onslaught, they hit themselves to sleep, then I use the demoralizing roar (doesn't wake them), shift to caster, FF (doesn't wake them), then root - moonfire - rejuv, shift back to bear and bring them down.

Starfire
12-06-2005, 11:21 AM
I would like to throw in the fact I have never lost a duel to a rogue. Even without the thorns armor.

You really should have started different. If he didn't see you, then you should have opened with ff, entangle, starfire, moonfire, throw on nature's grasp and bear formed. DoTs are not going to help enough. And, try to save your stun for when you need to shift out to heal.

Bear = Melee
Cat = Caster

If only because you need the much higher AC from bear form to stand his burst DPS.

Yakiniku
12-06-2005, 02:23 PM
First off...druid owns rogue. At least around my level. A level 30 rogue tried to gank me 6 times while I was questing and fighting spiders. He killed me twice. I killed him 3 times. It would have been 4 but he wimped out and vanished.

This is how it always started. Rogue would cheap shot me while in cat form. I morph out of cat form, entangling roots immediately until I get it (it'll take about 4-5 seconds). Moonfire, heal, bear form. At this point, you should be on par in terms of health w/ him. I'm feral build so his hp was getting rocked even while in my bear form. If he stunned/gouge, etc. I shift out of bear and back into bear. Don't forget to bash too. Free hits.

Again, this was a higher level rogue (who btw drank pots during battle) and I still chased him down and owned him what should have been 4 times. Moral of the story: druid > rogue. Never try to out dps a rogue though in cat form. You have so many more weapons. glhf. hopefully next time you will own those pesky annoying one dimensional rogues.

meen
12-06-2005, 04:08 PM
noob question:

a 60 rogue escaped me in battle by 'stunning' me. it wasnt a stun, tho, coz the graphics above my head didnt correspond, it wasnt sap either; the graphics showed a cross, maybe a star and two other symbols circling above my head. whats that?

thx,

Fendicano
12-06-2005, 09:10 PM
May have been some kind of poison that did that.

Astrel
12-06-2005, 11:57 PM
Maybe it was kidney shot?

goa
12-08-2005, 11:23 AM
http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=10126

mekell
12-08-2005, 01:08 PM
Sounds like "blind" to me.

Fendicano
12-08-2005, 08:05 PM
Yeah, forgot about blind, that sounds like it would have been it.

Horao
12-12-2005, 04:42 PM
For me, rogues are the hardest for me to kill. My first character was a 60 rogue, and when I play him, my easiest kills are druids and warlocks (warlocks a bit harder since death coil).

Basically, if the rogue gets the jump on you, it's pretty much over. You can't do enough damage in bear form, before you have to shift out to heal, and when you do, the rogue is waiting. At least I am, druids try to bear form on me all the time, and I just save up my 5 combo points for when they try to bash heal. I dodge enough as is, so I save my evasion for when the druid gets low, then pop evasion and likely ghost strike, and your bash is going to miss. If you don't shift to heal your dead, if you do, your dead. From a rogue point of view, I don't know how you would beat me. Also, roots is pretty pointless VS a rogue unless your in AB or AV where the rogue might have already used vanish. Also, in non BG pvp, if I know I'm fighting a druid, I put my spider belt on fora free roots escape.

From my druid, the only time I really win is when I get the jump. Like in AB, I stealth and guard a flag, and if I see a rogue tapping it, I come out, usually go for a starfire (since they typically don't see me until it's too late), faerie fire, moonfire, insect swarm and then kite to death. A rogue sprint is faster than travel form, so don't depend on that to save you. When I get attacked by a rogue, typically I war stomp (if I can get out of stun), NS heal, and begin to kite. Moonfire, insect swarm, natures grasp and try to get the hell out of melee range.

I don't think there are any 'do this to beat a rogue' strategies, like the other person mentioned, they are built for 1 on 1 fighting. Druids are built to be versatile and enduring. Plus, balance druids have the short end of the stick, as Blizzard as put very little + damage leather gear in, thus forcing to resort to cloth, which weakens bear form. Lots of leather + healing, but very little leather + damage & healing.

mekell
12-13-2005, 03:49 PM
Rogues are certainly tough, i beat them 50/50. It all comes down to equipment. If they have really good weapons (Ony/MC/etc), then they can beat me unless i pull some pretty crafty stuff or they just make a mistake. But if they are in equipment that everyone can get up thru UBRS, ill win at the very least 50% of the time.

Beastly
12-13-2005, 05:32 PM
So I was around Alterac, and I see this level 33 Rogue beating up an Ogre. Cat form, stealth, ravage, rake -> Caster Form, moonfire....and then that's when I got stunned and completely raped. Any suggestions?

My suggestion to you? Stop ganking rogues. You'll end up paying with your life.

Now, after you stop ganking people, perhaps listen to the advice of the experienced above posters.

Kebster
12-14-2005, 11:42 AM
I win against rogues in 1v1, 90% of the time, and most of that 10% i lose is agianst orc rogues simply because they resist the bear stun alot.

Its mostly gear when it comes to rogues, I just laugh when poke me for so little. If they catch you out of bear, its over.

goa
12-16-2005, 07:04 PM
Imo rogues and wars are easiest to kill. But then again.. a druid is such a versatile class it's hard to make a rock-paper-scissors judgement. :D

Yes.. I've killed them all. All epic rogues and all epic wars. It's not about epicas really.. it's about tricks.

Imba dr00d.

mekell
12-19-2005, 09:13 AM
i've killed epic rogues too, the point is i cannot consistently kill epic'ed rogues like i can non-epic ones. Epic'ed rogues will win about as much as they lose, at least to me.

Jareck
12-27-2005, 01:30 AM
Toughest rogues to beat are stunlock rogues. They hit me for like 20 per hit with 12k armor, but they do it FOREVER. The best way to break a stunlock if they catch you in caster is to trinket when they kidney shot you. The typical stunlock rogue with have 0 combo points at this point and no energy. This is the best time to trinket, rejuv, and go bear. If you have thorns on, they will literally kill themselves as their daggers bounce off of you.

Also, when you shift, hit yourself with abolish poison in case they try to blind you.

Your armor in bear will be your saving grace against any rogue, but especially against dagger ones.

goa
12-27-2005, 10:07 AM
Another trick when fighting vs rogues is to abolish poison on yourself when the rogue is getting low on HPs. Almost all rogues will try and blind/bandage when they are low on HPs.

mekell
12-28-2005, 08:59 AM
thats a good idea goa, i hadnt really ever thought about using a Ticking Cure Poison to neutralize blind