View Full Forums : AB woes


Gouyu
10-26-2005, 02:28 PM
Warning: long and rambling post ahead.

Okay, so I've been level 60 for a couple months now, but I haven't done much BG at all, instead focusing my time and energy into getting the good PVE gear that is scattered about the many instances now open to me. Well, I've run them quite a bit, got my full wildheart, some good stuff from DM, and a decent set of blues for feral. My guild makes weekly runs of MC, ZG, and Onyxia (soon to start BWL) but I can't really participate because of my schedule and computer. So I thought I would try some PVP. I've been doing AB for about a week and a half now, and I'm getting frustrated. Firstly, after running it a ton of times, I've only won twice. TWICE. That blows. Not only am I missing out on 2 marks at the end of each battle, but I'm also missing out on the massive bonus honor that the winning side gets. So this brings me to my main question and point. I was planning on PVPing to gain in rank and get some good items from reputation and whatnot, but the fact that I am simply losing over and over again makes it seem like I will not advance without a TON of time put in, and the rewards seem infinitely far off. Am I wrong about this, or should I just keep plugging away? My guildies are not hardcore PVPers, and so I'm often in PUGs, so I realize this can be part of the problem too. Anyway, I'm just wondering if anyone has any input/insight on the situation. Thanks.

Rockwell
10-26-2005, 05:36 PM
I took alot of losses when I first started to pvp in WSG... the best I can stay is stick with it if you enjoy it. I didn't really go into BG's for the loot; I just find fighting other players to be alot more intresting then mobs. The loot did follow tho' and alot of the pvp rewards are very nice.

I know alot of the better groups I run with don't wanna pick up a player they don't know about... and who can blame'm. The more you stick with it, the more your known, I think the more you'll find groups that are good... or the groups will find you.

I'm pretty much a healer first and foremost, some feral around the edges. I guess it goes without saying; but it's alway easier to find groups as a healer... particularly in BG's where alot of people seem lost in trying to get kills.

Starfire
10-26-2005, 08:15 PM
I never had that problem. I was too busy earning the first 2hk's and keeping the 1st position lead for the entire game on my hu mage.

Falloraan
10-27-2005, 10:56 AM
If you are after the loot, be prepared for a long haul. You have two avenues, faction and rank. Faction is attainable as long as people still have interest in your BG of choice, which for my server is AB and an occasional AV. Haven't even seen WSG up since AB was released. If they release a new BG, expect to see AB interest dry up as well.

Now for faction AV is pretty easy to work your way up, but the honor you get in there for ranks sucks big time. The problem is diminishing returns on HKs, and after a 5 hour session you might end up with over 1000 HKs, but you get less honor than doing 2 hours of AB. Faction in AB is really determined by whether you win or lose. Sure, you will get the faction eventually even if you lose 90% of the time, but you get a ton more faction on a win. By turning oIn your three medallions for 50 rep, and the rep you earn on your way to 2000 resources, I think it comes to about 130 or 140 reputation per win. As for rep in losses, how bad you lose determines that. If it's a close match you can end up getting almost as much rep in the match as the winning team. But if it's a total drubbing you might only get 10 rep. And then you still need two more medals to get the 50 rep for the turn in.

Taking those things into account, you really need to decide if you have the time to dedicate towards attaining the rank rewards. I try and spend a couple hours a day in the BGs, and a normal week for me gets me between 50k and 60k in honor. Currently Knight-Liuetenant on the cusp of Knight-Captain, and I have been doing this consistantly since around May (with about a month off when a retaining collapsed on my apartment and put me in limbo). My goal has never been to get the epic set, that's just not feasible playing a couple hours a day, unless you are included in your server's goober, err uber group that steamrolls through the BGs. I've always had my eye on the epic mount available to Commanders, but if I can manage to finish out the blue Lieutenant Commander's Sanctuary set I will be satisfied with my accomplishments. And you really cannot take a week off of this schedule, without feeling like you've fallen two weeks behind.

Another thing to keep in mind, and something that has me really concerned: what's gonna happen when the expansion comes out and they raise the level cap? Will they put out new, higher level gear available for purchase on the vendors? Or will they come up with some new time sink that makes all the effort and hours put into gaining rank worthless?

Starfire
10-27-2005, 11:18 AM
Yeah, I'm looking for Champion's Sanctuary myself. I am basically interested in ranks right now, as it's just my friends mage.

I would rather get that set however, that wait for my super-epic mount on my druid because I already have a 40% runspeed in cat form + 30% from feline swiftness. They just look cool. I can wait for me to look cooler.


And, thanks that was a damn good post.

Gouyu
10-27-2005, 03:13 PM
Thanks Falloraan. Wow, you've been doing that since May?? That's about the same schedule that I can pull as well, so indeed it looks like I'm a LONG way off. That's what I was afraid of... Oh well, hopefully I can at least start winning so it'll be a little more fun. XD

Yeah, I am also very worried about the level 70 rumors. It seems like it will trash all the hard work people have put into getting their current gear. Maybe the last 10 levels will be the fabled "hero class" and itemization won't change....that would just be weird though. All we can do is hope and pray that blizzard doesn't screw everybody over.... ;;>_>

Starfire
10-27-2005, 08:09 PM
Blizzard, please stick to RTS games. You need to divert attention from messing with WoW and pay more of it on Starcraft Ghost. You know RTS, stick with it!

Fendicano
10-27-2005, 10:12 PM
Blizzard, please stick to RTS games. You need to divert attention from messing with WoW and pay more of it on Starcraft Ghost. You know RTS, stick with it!

/slap

BLASPHEMY!

Cenaurius
10-28-2005, 09:20 AM
starcraft ghost isn't a rts game anyway, so i think you're out of luck whether they focus on WoW or that.

Starfire
10-28-2005, 04:38 PM
I meant Starcraft 2. Oops!

Fendicano
10-28-2005, 09:37 PM
WTFPWNWAFFLES. . .j/k (I don't really talk like that)

Starfire
10-29-2005, 12:20 AM
Wtf I'll own your face. OMGWTFROFLWAFFLEPWNEDTHXNORE

I am way leeter.

Deze
10-29-2005, 01:03 AM
Well back on topic you are lucky to be on a server where AB is available to you. I am level 54 and on my server the only BG available is AV, the others don't get used at all in my level range. And at level 54 AV sucks because 95% of the people in there are lvl 60 :mad2: plus all the high level elite npc's wandering around makes it very tough......Was so much better at lvl 50, going to have to wait until I hit 60 now to get back into any kind of pvp.

Plus I assume you are alliance? I play alliance as well and I can count the times I've been on the winning side in BG on one hand and I've lost count of how many times I've played them since release. Sadly it will just take longer than being on the Horde side. And since you are competing against eveyone else on your server for rank it is more a matter of how much time you have to put into it (as was already said). Those that have the highest pvp rank are those that have the most time to play, not necessarily those with the most skill. But that just comes with the MMO territroy I'm afraid nothing you can do about that.

Gouyu
10-29-2005, 01:54 AM
Actually, I am Horde. Lol. We are outnumbered by alliance by something like 2:1 or 3:1 (at least last I checked) and so they have a TON of dedicated PVP groups that don't have lives. It sucks. :P

Why do you say that Alliance will take longer than being on Horde side? That seems like a server generalization. Plus, those dumb pallies can protect a resource for freakin years with their noob-bubble + heal to full life. <_<;; No, of course I'm not bitter. >_>

Starfire
10-30-2005, 09:05 AM
Actually, I am Horde. Lol. We are outnumbered by alliance by something like 2:1 or 3:1 (at least last I checked) and so they have a TON of dedicated PVP groups that don't have lives. It sucks. :P

Why do you say that Alliance will take longer than being on Horde side? That seems like a server generalization. Plus, those dumb pallies can protect a resource for freakin years with their noob-bubble + heal to full life. <_<;; No, of course I'm not bitter. >_>


Seriously. Probably Starfell and Crusaders of Azeroth I presume?

And Crusaders just MERGED. That means 3 # 1 server guilds steamrolling through AV.

Gouyu
10-30-2005, 09:21 AM
Seriously. Probably Starfell and Crusaders of Azeroth I presume?

And Crusaders just MERGED. That means 3 # 1 server guilds steamrolling through AV.


I have no idea. Are you talking about Alliance guilds?

Well anyway, I played AB last night, almost all guild, for a few hours. It was SOO much better than the PUGS I was in before. We only lost maybe twice. It was great. I got about 2000 rep points with the Defilers. ^_^

Falloraan
10-31-2005, 11:23 AM
I think it comes to about 130 or 140 reputation per win.I had a good weekend of PvP, lots of wins, so kept track of this and it is consistantly 110 rep per win in AB; 50 from the three medals and a total of 60 rep earned while you accumulate 2000 resources in the BG.

Starfire
10-31-2005, 11:31 AM
Yeah, CoA and Starfell are the 2 biggest guilds on Gorefiend. #1 Alliance guild, and biggest XP guild, respectively.

Cenaurius
10-31-2005, 12:42 PM
i don't think i've heard of the first one and i know i've never seen "starfell." if CoA = Crusaders of Azeroth, it is most certainly not the #1 alliance guild, that is most likely sinister or excessive. biggest xp guild = biggest pve guild? if so, i would have to go with deus invictus. all of their guildies seem to have epics, and i can't recall the last time i saw any of them in a bg. care to clarify what you meant?

Starfire
10-31-2005, 01:05 PM
My friend claims Crusaders are the biggest. He also told me his uncle was the blue power ranger. So, I took a chance.

Starfell was from a census bot that showed highest "XP".


IDK, Whatever. I meant biggest on members. Malus Lepus is in the hundreds, and we're 2nd in line after Wraithsteel Legion in numbers.

Nytewalker
10-31-2005, 01:36 PM
My guild, the supercoolpermanentlowbiealts, is the biggest guild on every sever I'm a part of, because it has all my alts in it. Collectively we could probably take down a level 30 mob, but since all the members are mine and on the same account only one of us can be on at a time :wavey:

On a more serious note, I've never understood the who is biggest/most XP etc deal. Are your members happy? Is the group mutually beneficial to everyone or is the guild more important than the member. Thats really the only thing that I care about. Granted, a member can't act selfish and ruin the work of the other members, but honestly, I just don't understand what having the most members or whatever has to do with enjoying the game. Thats like saying that I own the most popular model car or everyone that drives the car I drive have perfect driving records. Who cares if you don't like driving it.

Sorry to go off on a tangent there

Nyte

Cenaurius
10-31-2005, 01:58 PM
yeah, biggest guild certainly doesn't mean much by itself, seeing as you can only bring 40 people at a time into even the largest raid instances, so huge numbers won't help you as much as quality will. my guild had always been tiny; we had to expand dramatically to be able to consistently field enough people for zg. there are only 5 or 6 alliance guilds on gorefiend that can kill hakkar, which we can now do in a 4 hr session. i am also aware of 2 guilds that can kill ragnaros, but not the spider boss in zg, which amuses me quite a bit :).

Starfire
10-31-2005, 02:34 PM
Malus Lepus enjoys a wonderful sense of community and we always have a 40 man group for raids, not to mention lowbies.

Nytewalker
10-31-2005, 04:00 PM
I didn't mean to jump on anyone there. Cen, I've only met a couple of your Red-Shirts, but all of them seemed first class to me. I've never heard of MalusLepus before, but I don't play on Asjol-nerub (sp?) so it isn't surprising, I will just trust you that they have a great community spirit. Most guilds that can function effectively in a raid environment DO have a good community spirit. Its the massive guilds that are really nothing more than a perpetual PUG that have problems. They are concerned with being the biggest and try to carry along a lot of dead weight. I am starting to rethink my server choice yet again. I HATE THAT. Now I've got some RL friends that play on Moonrunner. OK NM way off topic now.

Nyte

Starfire
11-01-2005, 10:50 AM
If you are concerned with getting shiny purples on every inch of your toon, Malus Lepus is not for you.

Cenaurius
11-01-2005, 10:52 AM
how could a big guild always able to field 40 man groups for raids not cover its members in shiny purples?

Starfire
11-01-2005, 10:54 AM
That's not to say we DON'T have them.

Click the link in my sig, go to forums, news, check out the items that drop for us. We are taking down 5 bosses in MC without wipes, and downed the first four in ZG.

We just don't play for epics.



Our members span the spectrum from hard core gamers to casual gamers. We strive to provide an atmosphere where members can focus on what they want out of World of Warcraft be that end game content, PvP rankings, or doing quests.

Currently the majority of members are interested in Zul'Gurub, Molten Core and Onyxia. Thus we have been scheduling these runs regularly and are making progress through them and learning the encounters as a guild. We have killed the first 4 bosses in Zul'Gurub and have killed Lucifron -> Sulfuron in Molten Core. We are actively getting people keyed for Onyxia.

Our main focus is to learn and have fun. The loot is an added bonus to being able to run the instances that we organize. We currently do not use a DKP system. If your goal is to have shiny purples on every inch of your toon this guild is probably not for you.

Bovus
11-01-2005, 03:40 PM
I've been doing AB for about a week and a half now, and I'm getting frustrated. Firstly, after running it a ton of times, I've only won twice. TWICE.

It's possible every server is different. On mine, Horde outnumbers alliance about 1.5 or 2 to 1 at level 60. Last night around 6pm server, there were 8 concurrent ABs running. Since AB came out, the only time AV is up is during the holiday weekend for AV - and then you will only see 1 of them going. To get into AV it requires you login in around 1pm server on Friday of the holliday weekend and wait 3-6 hours.

I've gone from Grunt to Stoneguard since AB was released. There are about 2 alliance guild groups that PvP farm there, but most are PUGs. Against an ally PUG, Horde usually wins at least 75% of the time. Interesting thing about the guild groups, many reached Exhalted with AB before the rep nerf in 1.8. Now, they aren't doing it as much - pretty much just enough to maintain rank.

The best way for you to succeed in AB is to go with guildies and friends. If you have Vent / Teamspeak it makes it easier, but the tactics in AB are so simple you can easily use Chat channels to direct people.

Just yesterday, we fielded our first 15 man all-guild AB group. Even against an ally guild group that normally rolls over horde PUGs (I've lost to this group 2000-0 in a PUG before), we prevailed 2000-1350. We did it by foiling their typical "zerg and take farm" strategy.

Make some PvP friends within your guild or without, queue up as a raid, and your queue times will be less and victories more.

Gouyu
11-01-2005, 06:24 PM
yeah, biggest guild certainly doesn't mean much by itself, seeing as you can only bring 40 people at a time into even the largest raid instances, so huge numbers won't help you as much as quality will. my guild had always been tiny; we had to expand dramatically to be able to consistently field enough people for zg. there are only 5 or 6 alliance guilds on gorefiend that can kill hakkar, which we can now do in a 4 hr session. i am also aware of 2 guilds that can kill ragnaros, but not the spider boss in zg, which amuses me quite a bit :).

That's funny. We downed the spider boss without much trouble, but alas, we are still working on rag. Close, but no cigar yet.

Also, I've seen a TON of DI guys in AB and they are pretty good. Maybe they started doing BG just recently. I agree though about Sinister and Excessive, I hate it when I jump in AB and realize I'm up against them. *grimace*

Thanks Bovus, all good suggestions. Yeah, I'm gonna try to roll with guildies or get in with the Savage Fury and No Quarter guys. They ain't bad.

Ndainye
11-01-2005, 07:11 PM
Always roll with guildies/friends whenever possible in PvP or PvE for that matter. The reason why people hate PuG groups in PvE are the same reasons why they hate them in PvP; no one listens, everyone wants to do thier own thing, everyone wants to dps ect.. PuGs are the standard in AV of course but anything smaller get a guild/friends group and work together, it's amazing what working together will do, most Alliance groups just roll over in AB since they realize they can lose to Trans groups 3 times and get the same amount of HKP in less time than attempting to get 1 win. Of course there's always the daily Trans love posts on the server boards where the lvl 1 alt tells everyone how much we suck because we can work together and roll over a pug in blues with our epics :rolleyes:

Biggest in no way means best, on Zul horde the "largest" guild has been that way since the start of the server when they began their lets recruit everyone and tell them that we are the best. They killed Rag this month and everyone cheered yeah 10th? dunno I stopped counting about three months ago.

Badgemagus
11-08-2005, 01:10 PM
Quality > Quantity

The biggest horde guild on our server is actually the laughing stock of our side because they still havent downed rag.

Starfire
11-08-2005, 01:23 PM
The biggest 2 horde guilds on our server happen to be Wraithsteel Legion and Malus Lepus.

And, trust me, aside from Spy VS. Spy, and maybe BoM, we are the best.

Cenaurius
11-08-2005, 01:47 PM
Also, I've seen a TON of DI guys in AB and they are pretty good. Maybe they started doing BG just recently.

from what i'm told by a druid in their guild who i leveled with from 20ish onward, all of DI's VIPs have gotten their epic sets/gear out of mc, so their focus has shifted to pvp. i believe it to be true, since as i said, all of the members i've seen have the best epics around. i pity the horde that come up against them; the few times i've lucked into getting into one of their abs, they were incredibly efficient. i was actually in a game with DI where the horde got 0 honor. granted it was a horde pug, but still, god damn.

i would looove to see a Deus Invictus vs Savage Fury or No Quarter ab.

Anubrim
11-09-2005, 10:07 AM
On azgalor pugs just suck. 90% of the time you cant get a raid going and for some reason Alliance just cant guard flags worth a damn. They all go running off after a cap.
It dosent bother me to much anymore, I just go in and get as many Hk's and HP's as I can While I work on trying to get into one of the organized groups that run.
Oh ya. this is my first post here. I remember browsing this site when I played EQ for about three years. I had a 70 SK and a 60 druid on Innoruuk.

Anubrim 60 NE Druid
14/31/5 Feral (9/11/31 resto.....Rest in peace)
Azgalor server

Badgemagus
11-10-2005, 07:17 PM
On Hyjal, Alliance PUG's do better than Horde PUG's.

But Horde built groups > Alliance built groups.

Rockwell
11-11-2005, 12:30 PM
On Hyjal, Alliance PUG's do better than Horde PUG's.

But Horde built groups > Alliance built groups.

Exact same on Uther... since they removed "Join as a Group" from AV I don't think the horde's won a single game of it.

My regular All-star Pug and two other guild groups regularly beat the alliances' best AB/WSG squad.

Falloraan
11-11-2005, 12:46 PM
Exact same on Uther... since they removed "Join as a Group" from AV I don't think the horde's won a single game of it.

My regular All-star Pug and two other guild groups regularly beat the alliances' best AB/WSG squad.
They need to do that on every BG. Or force pre-formed raids to go against pre-formed raids. Raid vs. PUG is bs.

Bovus
11-20-2005, 12:34 PM
Two must-have addons for AB:

BGAssist and BGInvite. Search for them on curse gaming and you'll find them.