A new idea for druids....

[Foulsbane01]

Why dont druids push for a slow spell (not an animal only slow, but a slow similar to the one BST get). I dont see how this will help them solo better. It will get them in grps, and it wont infringe on clerics.

Maybe have the spell do an UNresistable 55% slow. SHM would still be kings of debuff, enc will still be wanted, but its an added bonus to get druids into grps.

So many people feel druids cant heal in PoP and thats nuts. Goods druids have no problem at all in a good grp, being the main healer.

With a slow, druids can be grped with clerics, and the need to always try and find a shm or enc for slows will be lessened.

Asking for a res is silly IMO. It will only add to their soloing ability, which SOE seems to want to end (the new PoP solo exp nerf coming up).

I honestly dont see anything bad with the idea of druids getting an unresistable slow. It will add to their grping far more then anything i can think of. And will make the sitting around waiting for a slower to show up alot easier to bear.

I hope this post isnt deleted. My last 2 on this board have been. I think Sobe hates me =(

[Aaliane]

Push for a slow spell? Have you read the other threads here? I give it half a day before I see "Druids want SLOW now too!!" on other class boards. I can't speak for any other druid other than myself, but I never asked for rez. I don't want rez. From reading, most other druids here don't appear to want rez. Now replace the word rez in the past sentences with slow. There are some wonderful ideas in the stickied thread that we could use. There are some that aren't so wonderful. Everyone has an opinion, and this is mine. But I sure as hell can see the threads on the shaman, enchanter, beastlord (probably necro too since they just ache for things to say about druids) boards if we got a slow type spell (watered down version or not). I don't want other classes abilities. I want my own.

[Foulsbane01]

Aaliane I doubt SoE comes out with a new druid only spell. Would be some form of heal, debuff, etc.

I would think a slow is the best idea for a spell to make druids more grp friendly. Much better then a res or faster heal type, plus it wont infringe on clerics so much.

[Stumbletoe]

That was Aaliane's point, Foulsbane. We're not looking for a new Druid only spell - we're looking for one of our existing spells/abilities to be revamped into something more useful than it is now. Look at Stormhaven's Work In Progress thread - the majority of ideas listed as "Supported" are variations of existing Druid abilities and spells.

As well, Slows have been the domain of Shamen and Enchanters (and to a lesser degree Beastlords and Necromancers against undead) since 1999. To have SOE add a new Slow line to Druid's now would cause massive backlash among those classes. Beastlords, even at 65, don't get groups because of Slow. They get groups due to DPS. In a pinch, they can work to Slow opponents. But the group members will whine, bitch, and complain until a Shaman or Enchanter is secured to do the "real" Slows. I seriously doubt that SOE would ever consider adding a Slow line to Druids, and rightfully so. Its a bad idea.

Stumbletoe

[Tawnosii]

Why infringe upon an ability shared by 3 classes (slow) but worry about infringing upon an ability only one class truly has (heals). Why is it ok for 3 classes to share relatively close abilities at slowing, but nobody is allowed to even approach the healing ability of clerics? Maybe before the huge solo nerf you could claim that clerics deserved to be the only class with a monopoly since they couldn't solo, but the obvious goal seems to be to make sure that nobody can solo, so thats hardly an equalizer.

[Demasia]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I would think a slow is the best idea for a spell to make druids more grp friendly. Much better then a res or faster heal type, plus it wont infringe on clerics so much. [/quote]

Yeah druids. Start competing with the shaman, enchanters, beastlords and bards instead of trying to be more competitve as a healer. So what that you would be going for a role that you never had before. So what that there are already at least 4 classes (some say 6) who can already fill this role. Leave the healer role in every group to the clerics because we like things as they are. Our toes are holy ground; their toes are fair game.

Disclaimer: That was my cleric in me speaking.

[ZarrosLivinglight]

You want to know why beastlords who have weaker pets than mages are able to solo post-60 in ways that mages cannot, and why they are generally more able soloists before then?

1.) Better (pet) heals
2.) Slow

Yes, things like the pet-buffs for procs and haste help, as does the fact that we can mostly fight right alongside our warders, but if it weren't for the above two reasons, mages would clearly be the better soloers.

Now, give druids a slow and you can make a class already strong in soloing even moreso, which is entirely not the point of the debate.

[Spyder001]

I like the slow idea, but make it a 40% slow, and it combines with a 50MR debuff, but does 50 dd as well, so it cant be used on mezzed mobs (without breaking mez/risking breaking root), etc.

[Panamah]

I still like the idea someone had (sorry, forgot who!) of making druids be completely novel by letting them be the masters of porcupining. Give them great damage shields and a spell that won't stack with slow, and won't work on boss mobs, that will make the mob hit for much less damage.

[TeriMoon]

No thanks. No slow. Nope.

I got enough high aggro spells. Don't need another.

People complain druids have so much utility. Then they complain that we don't know how to control the aggro associated with it. Then they want to add more high aggro spells to give us more utility. Hmm.

<strong>Slow for druids would be unbalancing.</strong> Can you imagine the solo capabilities we would have then? Crazy druids with lots of HP gear, regen, DSs, sotw, and PBAE spells. The thought of this scenario makes me want to melt into the carpet. If you think for a minute it wouldn't happen, you are fooling yourself.

[L1ndara]

<strong>Maybe have the spell do an UNresistable 55% slow. SHM would still be kings of debuff, enc will still be wanted, but its an added bonus to get druids into grps.</strong>

Unresistable might be a bit much for red servers.

Right now ya got...
Shaman: Low agro debuff, 75% slow (6.5 minute)
Enchanter: High agro debuff, large rune, 70% slow (3.3 minutes)
Beastlord: Stonestance, 65% slow (3.3 minute)
Bard: Low agro 52% slow (1 minute)

Interestingly enough all of them can also haste, all but the shaman can provide extra mana. Well, giving a druid a low % slow would sort of fit, but most groups would then want if not need a haster (which as we see can also slow anyway) so just slow might not get druids groups. If you also add on haste then I'd start to wonder if Enchanters might not be in trouble. While they're crazy damage for a typical group if they charm, if they aren't charming they could end up being dead weight compared to a druid except in the rare "tough" dungeons where mez is actually useful.

[Hvyarms Steelfists]

I can see the shamans yelling now... "druids have better heals than us already and now they are getting SLOWS!!"

Why do you feel the need to set yourselves up as the bad guys?

[Overies]

Slow just isn't a druids role at all. Even remotely.


I say tear down the clerics monopoly on healing and give us a big buff and make our heal spells a bit more efficient and quicker.

Clerics may complain that they can't solo or port or anything but face it. They have a TOTAL MONOPOLY on group healing. NO other class has this where they are on average necessary for efficient fighting. By making druids just a bit quicker at heals and a bit more efficient, with a buff that gives a lot more HP to make healing easier, we WILL be a viable option when grouping, and our role in raids will STILL be secondary to the clerics.

Yes, Clerics get agitated when we ask to make us better at doing their job. But just face the facts:

Tank: Warrior, Paladin, Shadowknight (3)
Slower: Shaman, Enchanter, Beastlord (3)
Healer: Cleric (1)

That just does not make sense to me.

[Aaliane]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Why do you feel the need to set yourselves up as the bad guys? [/quote]

It's not us doing it...
This thread was started by a cleric, not a druid. The vast majority of druids DO NOT want slow. And this is not a flame towards the original poster. Just saying that we aren't the ones trying to "set ourselves up" - others are.

[Spyder001]

Give us a spell to buff up our pet booboo. A little like the beastlord spells used to buff their pets. Make the spell only give our pet another 800hps, and last about 10 min, but make the pet increase level, and hit fairly hard with this buff (70-85 per hit rather than the current 28 per hit).

This way, it isnt a tank, it wont let you solo much, if any better, but it gives druids some added dps to a group.

Also, give us our old harmony back. And make it indoor/outdoor past a certain level. Spells shouldnt suck more as you gain levels, they should get better (thus indoor/outdoor). This was THE class defining skill of a druid for me forever. When I lost this (harmony), I didnt feel much like a druid anymore. (I know we have the new harmony, but to me it sucks big time compared to our old harmony).

Wizards get lure root/lure dd's, etc. DD's are wizzy class defining skills. Other classes get unresistable debuffs, etc. Give druids a lure snare. Snare is a class defining ability, give us a lure one.

[kineada]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>About Booboo buffs:

This way, it isnt a tank, it wont let you solo much, if any better, but it gives druids some added dps to a group. [/quote]

Ever watch a wizzy aggro kite with a sword chasing the mob around? Damn straight it would make Booboo into a solo tool.

Right now Booboo does around 2 dps and maybe an interrupt (if you like to kite casters). He doesn't do a lot of damage, but I use him anyway. Imagine how powah he would be if he could be buffed to mage pet levels.

I want ways to make me wanted in groups. Solo is teh suck.

As for getting slows ... Heh. Ever watch an enchanter solo HoH?

But why am I giving a reasonable response to what is obviously a troll thread? Damn ... Hook, line and sinker :(

[Foulsbane01]

I doubt Shams would scream if druids got a slow spell. Clerics were pissed when druids got a 'mini cheal' and no one gave a rats bum. So what if a few shm were pissed. Their slow is still the best in game, need for alot of high lvl raids, etc. Shm have no problem at all getting grps.

Druids, according to the ones on this board, have a problem getting grps. Since they have so many other utility spells, and the 'jack of all trades', why not a slow spell? 55% at lvl 65. Trust me, they will get grps. Esp if it were an unresistable slow, that didnt need tash or malo(a) to land...

I dont know why alot of the druids here want to take the place of clerics. If the object is to get grps, a slow is the way to go. Think of it as a Ro's with a slow compontent.

[Aldane]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Ever watch a wizzy aggro kite with a sword chasing the mob around? Damn straight it would make Booboo into a solo tool.[/quote]

I doubt we are going to find anything that will significantly increase our desirability in groups, won't step on the toes of other classes, and won't increase soloing power at all. So, my question is...

So what? Who would use a buffed Booboo to solo if the trend of discouraging soloing continues? Do you honestly think it would make druid soloing overpowering when a charmed pet would likely be able to tank better and hit harder? A modestly buffed Booboo with respectable DPS would make us more attractive to groups that already have a healer and wouldn't mind having more DPS and someone who can spot heal. Yeah, if he was used to aggro-kite, he would be more useful soloing, but so would just about every other improvement we've discussed that doesn't involve healing or DSing.

So maybe the conclusion is that we can't do jack to increase our groupability besides become more efficient healers because most non-healer ideas we have discussed would increase our soloing power, thus co-opting the role of clerics, a class that almost totally lack the option to solo at high levels?

Regards,

Aldane Aglond
Ayonae Ro

Edit: Oh, I thought I'd add that this druid doesn't want slow either, but thanks for offering an idea. :)

[Spyder001]

Wasnt a troll, was an idea. Your response is more troll-like.

That being said, the wizzy sword doesnt blow me away as an overpowered solo-tool, so who cares.

In PoP, I would much rather charm an animal that hits for 200-300 and solo that way, than take 3-4 times as long to kill a mob with a agro-kiting pet that only hits for 70-85 per hit.

So I really dont get the point. Woohoo, I can solo like a wizzy does with his sword and make 1/3 the exp I could have made using my charms!!!

My point was to add dps in GROUPS, to us with a pet we already have. Not use it for soloing, which I doubt too many would do very often, given the choice to use PoP animals that can kill much more quickly.

[kineada]

Because a buffed Booboo would allow me to kill three mobs in the time it would now take me to kill two. Exp nerf be damned if I can do that.

Not sure what style of play you use, but I don't ever allow pets to tank in PoP ... DC'd pets or otherwise. Pet are far more efficient aggro kiting. Enrage doesn't affect them in aggro kite and they are never too close or too far from their targets so they always land their melee rounds.

[Stormhaven]

For some reason I think it's the 3-5k-ish crit nukes that wizards do that allows them to kill mobs effectively, not their Flaming Sword of Xuzl.

[Spyder001]

So, you would think that a buffed booboo agro-kiting a mob, hitting for 70-85 per hit, would kill a mob faster than a charmed agro-kiting animal hitting for 200-300 per hit? I dont get it. Even with the time it takes to recharm for charm breaks, I dont see how it even comes close. Are you saying that Wizards using the sword are making exp that way faster than you are using charm techniques?

[Saffun]

Please erase this whole thread.

Sometimes when i could really, really, really use it i wish druids could mez, res, slow and nuke like a wizard.

But please, if your going to ask for something druids should not get ask for Feign death!



Ps. actually why not ask that wizards get tracking and single target ensnare and il just quit my druid and reroll as a wizard.

[FyyrLuStorm]

For Saffun or anyone else who does not get it.

Foulsbane is a cleric.

[kineada]

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> So, you would think that a buffed booboo agro-kiting a mob, hitting for 70-85 per hit, would kill a mob faster than a charmed agro-kiting animal hitting for 200-300 per hit?[/quote]

Summoned pets take zero exp if you do one point of damage to the big ugly. Charmed pets take exp based on amount of damage done to the mob compared to your damage (see charm nerf threads).

So yeah, summoned and ubah buffed Booboo would give more exp per kill than a charmed tree frog.

[kineada]

Oh ... Forgot to answer the concern between a buffed Booboo being an insane solo tool. You nuke/DoT kite mobs in PoP for solo. Booboo, like swords, are a type of manafree DoT. Increasing Booboo's dps will reduce the number of nukes/DoTs you have to cast.

An 80 hitting summoned pet is a nice DoT. Forego nuking and stick to castable DoTs and you can litterally chainpull Plane of Fire mobs and never run out of mana.

Try it with a mage sometime. Water pet + DoT kiting + KEI and just run around in a circle. Pulling new mobs as the kited one dies.

[Gwynet Woodsister]

Good one Foul :)