Bigger Hypocrites than Christians/"Republicans"?

[Fyyr]

oh, ya, hey Aidon. Good to see your post.

[Zute]

These studies are important contributions to the broader debate about the working class. But they represent a minority opinion. Almost everything we know about wages and prices tells us that the typical household has suffered a Lost Decade for market wages. Just as important, the price of necessities -- such as health care, a college education, a house, and energy to heat your home and run your car engine -- is growing faster than our incomes.

This is what the protests are about.

[Tudamorf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFz1VVXsWRU

That video was painful to watch. Are you really agreeing with that idiot, who tells a crowd of unemployed losers that the government is spending THEIR money on such-and-such project that Ron Paul doesn't like?

Wrong. It's the rich peoples' money that the government is spending, not that crowd's money. That crowd contributes next to nothing to the government, and only leeches from it.

If anyone should be protesting, it's rich people.

You have to admit that money flowing from taxpayers to the rich that way is kinda wrong

The taxpayers are the rich. The money can only flow from rich people to other people (rich or poor), but never from the poor to the rich.

People who are rich because they move money around, for example. Where do you find those people, Wall Street.

You make it sound as though it's a totally unproductive leeching activity, like personal injury lawyers suing whenever some moron does something particularly stupid (hi Aidon!).

But when you need a loan to buy a house or start up a business, your bank is providing you with a valuable service. So is your insurance company, when you need protection against a catastrophic loss you could never afford. Just because their job involves moving money around doesn't mean it shouldn't be compensated.

[Tudamorf]

Corporations are making record profits but not hiring. It is only natural that people are getting frustrated.

Again with the notion of corporations as welfare agencies. They are not, and never have been. Their goal is to make profit, not to hire you. They will only hire you if they think they can make more profit by doing so. There is nothing morally wrong or evil about this; it is how poor people work too.

Were it not for the massive foundational wealth of our society which has permitted most people to, at the very least, keep themselves fed and the general civility of our era,

You mean, thanks to the rich people, who pay all the bills.

If you pulled out 10 random people from those Occupy Wall Street crowds and compared the amount of taxes they paid for the past three years (the amount, not the percentage) with the amount 10 random rich people from those evil corporations paid, whose amount do you think will be higher?

[Tudamorf]

This is what the protests are about.

But they (and you) conveniently ignore this, from your same link:



Take a good, long look: those evil top 1% are the ones funding 35-40% of the federal government. The rest of the funding comes from the upper middle class, and next to nothing comes from the poor.

The top 1% are the ones paying for the bailouts, paying for the wars, paying for the debt, paying for all those things that those mobs are screaming about. They are the ones paying for all the stuff those protesters take for granted, like a peaceful nation, clean streets, and government handouts.

As for the graph you liked (or, more accurately, liked to hate), it's funny that it conveniently cuts off right at 2007, when the market was at its peak. Had you extended that graph a couple more years, you would have seen the line for the rich plummet starting in 2008, even worse than the downturn you see there after 1999. These downturns do not, of course, affect the poor very much, as you see on your graph.

In the end, yes, of course the rich make more money, in part because they use it more wisely. Instead of buying drugs and lottery tickets and complaining about the lack of government handouts, they invest and plan for the future. This is something the lower classes could do too, if they were smart enough. You don't need to be rich to invest your money, just smart.

[erianaiel]

This is what the protests are about.

Take a good, long look: those evil top 1% are the ones funding 35-40% of the federal government. The rest of the funding comes from the upper middle class, and next to nothing comes from the poor.

You love pointing out this graph, but even this one shows the extent of the problem if you look beyond the surface.
1pct of the population of the USA amounts to about 1 million households. Most of their income comes from capital gains which is taxed at 15pct. They also have much more access to tax exemptions, but let's ignore that for a moment. 99pct of the population amounts to about 100 million households. In so far as they are paying taxes(*) it is an effective 35pct rate. This means that the average top 1pct makes about 130 times as much as the average 99pct. No way how you look at it that much concentration of wealth is not a healthy economic situation, and the trend is clearly accelerating increasing this gap.

Second, we know from graph one that the top 1pct saw their income increase, on average, by 275pct or thereabouts (after tax). From your graph we see that their share of the taxes has remained more or less the same over the time period. on other words effectively the richest 1pct of the americans must have seen their taxes -decrease- by about 66pct over this time period relative to the taxes paid by the rest of the population. Also, you are reading the graph wrong, the top 1pct pays 30 pct of the taxes not 40pct. If the graph would show a distribution the sum should run up to 100pct not 40pct.

Eri
(* There is more to it than income tax. There is also the payroll tax and sales taxes just to name a few that are primarily paid by the the poorer part of the population. The income tax is only for those who are employed and earn enough to raise above the poverty line).

[Tudamorf]

This means that the average top 1pct makes about 130 times as much as the average 99pct. No way how you look at it that much concentration of wealth is not a healthy economic situation

Only if you make more wild assumptions than Fyyr does in a global warming thread.

The IRS publishes detailed tax stats. Look to the tables that show share of adjusted gross income (AGI), and you'll find that the bottom 99% have consistently made up 80-85% of the AGI for the past 25 years. The top 1% are therefore making 15-20% of the money.

Yes, I know you Communists wouldn't approve, but we all know how healthy Communism was as an economic system.

The reality is, someone has to pay for all the poor people who demand government handouts and to offer jobs to everyone else. It sure isn't going to be the other poor people.

(* There is more to it than income tax. There is also the payroll tax and sales taxes just to name a few that are primarily paid by the the poorer part of the population. The income tax is only for those who are employed and earn enough to raise above the poverty line).

Read the title of the graph again: it is ALL federal taxes, not just income tax. If it were just income tax, you'd see the bottom 50% paying zero, and the top 1% paying even more.

[Zute]

When you're scrapping by trying to buy food, medicine, etc, paying 15% of what little you have in taxes definitely has an impact on your quality of life.

I know the Republicans love to chatter on about flat taxes being fair, but even Warren Buffet doesn't think so. He knows that 15% of the millions he makes in capital gains makes no real difference in his standard of living. And like he points out, he's paying essentially the same percentage of his income in taxes as the guy emptying his trash can at night.

IMHO, if you're earning over a million, or so, you should have to pay more on capital gains.

The tax code restructuring that started with Regan made the super rich what they are today... super richer.

[Tudamorf]

When you're scrapping by trying to buy food, medicine, etc,

I don't know any poor people scraping by to get food or medicine. The government hands out those things, as well as many others, for free to poor people, thanks to money the government gets from the rich people.

Even the penniless psychotic homeless that roam the streets here can get free housing, free drug treatment services, free medical/psychiatric care, free food, and even a free pay check to buy more drugs. Some of them are too crazy to avail themselves of these services, but we still go out of our way to offer it to them.

These are objective facts, which you cannot deny.

The tax code restructuring that started with Regan made the super rich what they are today... super richer.

Actually, Reagan got rid of the favored long term capital gains rate in 1986, and made it the same as the ordinary rate.

And like he points out, he's paying essentially the same percentage of his income in taxes as the guy emptying his trash can at night.

If the guy emptying his trash were a little smarter, he would be paying less too.

Through 2012, taxpayers in the lowest two tax brackets pay zero tax on long term capital gains (prior to that it was 5% under the Bush tax cuts). So while they get to cash out tax-free on investments held for over one year, rich people still have to pay 15%.

Buffett is also being disingenuous when he makes that comparison, because he doesn't get the same credits, relative to his tax paid, that the trash collector gets.

Poor people are the ones being coddled, they just don't realize it, or take it for granted, and want even more.

[AbyssalMage]

When you're scrapping by trying to buy food, medicine, etc,

I don't know any poor people scraping by to get food or medicine. The government hands out those things, as well as many others, for free to poor people, thanks to money the government gets from the rich people.

Even the penniless psychotic homeless that roam the streets here can get free housing, free drug treatment services, free medical/psychiatric care, free food, and even a free pay check to buy more drugs. Some of them are too crazy to avail themselves of these services, but we still go out of our way to offer it to them.

These are objective facts, which you cannot deny.

Objective? Your leaving out half the facts and telling us you provided all the facts. Damn that sound like Fox "News" piping out your mouth. Zute is being more objective than you.

The tax code restructuring that started with Regan made the super rich what they are today... super richer.

Actually, Reagan got rid of the favored long term capital gains rate in 1986, and made it the same as the ordinary rate.

And added different tax breaks (a.k.a. Loopholes) that were greater than the tax breaks they received from the capital gains.

And like he points out, he's paying essentially the same percentage of his income in taxes as the guy emptying his trash can at night.

If the guy emptying his trash were a little smarter, he would be paying less too.

Your still under the assumption that rich people are paying taxes on the income they are earning. The News agencies have been proving that they are paying nothing or less than the lower middle class, and some of the honest rich have come out admitting such. Yet, your Right wing leanings attack them for their honesty. How long can you live in your "bubble?"

Through 2012, taxpayers in the lowest two tax brackets pay zero tax on long term capital gains (prior to that it was 5% under the Bush tax cuts). So while they get to cash out tax-free on investments held for over one year, rich people still have to pay 15%.

I'll see if you can see the folly in this statement?

Buffett is also being disingenuous when he makes that comparison, because he doesn't get the same credits, relative to his tax paid, that the trash collector gets.

Your right, he was be honest, he gets more. Right leaning thinkers can't handle honesty. Buffet gets more credits, has more ways to shelter his money, and makes money off the tax system "as is."

I don't fault him for doing such. But I do fault the Right for attacking him for being honest.

Poor people are the ones being coddled, they just don't realize it, or take it for granted, and want even more.

Have you ever lived in a poor neighborhood? A truly poor neighborhood? If you call that being "coddled" then you are a .....