Cost shifting from the wealthy to the poor

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Zute
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Cost shifting from the wealthy to the poor

Post by Zute » Fri Dec 23, 2011 11:26 am

Formerly known as Panamah

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Tudamorf
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Re: Cost shifting from the wealthy to the poor

Post by Tudamorf » Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:45 pm

You have got to be kidding me. Solar subsidies are the perfect example of money flowing from rich people to poor people.

If you install a solar panel in San Francisco, you first get a federal tax credit (not deduction - dollar for dollar credit that is better for poor people) of 30% of the cost. This is, of course, paid for almost exclusively by the top 10% earners in America.

Next, while rich people only get a local subsidy of $2,000, poor people get a base subsidy of $3,000, plus people earning under median income get an added subsidy of $7,000. All of these subsidies come from rich people.

In other words, if you are rich and install a solar panel, you get some breaks but not enough to offset the cost of the system; but if you are poor, then rich people will pay you to install the panels and you get them (and your energy) nearly for free.

On top of all this, if you are a low-income PG&E customer, you can qualify for drastically reduced electric rates -- I think it's something like 30% of the normal person's rates -- which is again subsidized by rich people using PG&E (who don't qualify for the rates).

Then in the background, the solar companies themselves are getting federal/state subsidies -- paid for by rich people -- which allows the savings to passed on the customers, and contractors who build low-income units (but not houses for rich people) get subsidies -- paid for by rich people -- to install solar units.

In short, the entire solar industry consists of rich people literally throwing money at poor people, begging them to take it and get their energy for free.

You might ask then, why doesn't every poor neighborhood have a solar panel on every roof? It's because poor people are stupid. They'll take welfare; they'll buy drugs and lottery tickets; but when it comes to thinking and planning wisely, they're lost. Which stands to reason, because if they were smart, they most likely wouldn't be poor for long.

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Zute
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Re: Cost shifting from the wealthy to the poor

Post by Zute » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:55 am

You're crackers on this one. All rate payers for the G&E companies have to pay the cost of subsidizing the buy back of the power generated by those solar panels, which the poor, and middle-class, can't possibly afford even with government subsidies. The power being bought is far higher than the utility company pays for power normally, because the cost of delivery (all those power lines and plants) is a part of what we pay with what we consume.
Formerly known as Panamah

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Tudamorf
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Re: Cost shifting from the wealthy to the poor

Post by Tudamorf » Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:17 am

Zute wrote:You're crackers on this one. All rate payers for the G&E companies have to pay the cost of subsidizing the buy back of the power generated by those solar panels, which the poor, and middle-class, can't possibly afford even with government subsidies.
Did you even read my post?

Point 1: There are huge solar subsidies that ONLY apply to poor people (in San Francisco the program is called GoSolar SF, but other California cities have similar programs), making solar panels very lucrative for them but not for other people. These subsidies are paid for by rich people.

Point 2: Poor people do NOT pay the same electric rate that rich people pay. With PG&E it's called the "CARE" program, and the pricing for the higher tiers of electricity is about 1/3 of the regular rate. All non-poor PG&E users subsidize this program.

So, the solar subsidies amount to a tax on non-solar users, but only the rich and, to some extent, the middle class ones. Poor people get a free ride, as usual, thanks to the more productive people. In fact they get a double free ride, because they get cheap solar AND cheap non-solar energy. If you don't believe me, look up the programs I just mentioned.

hhhhera
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Re: Cost shifting from the wealthy to the poor

Post by hhhhera » Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:43 am

does it work?

Fyyr
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Re: Cost shifting from the wealthy to the poor

Post by Fyyr » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:05 am

I had roof solar on top of my home.

The other ratepayers of SMUD paid for them. And are now reaping the benefits of them being installed in additional free power.

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