Utah (governor) did something correct

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AbyssalMage
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Utah (governor) did something correct

Post by AbyssalMage » Sat Mar 17, 2012 1:34 pm

Utah governor vetoes bill curbing sex education in public schools

OK, Utah is a screwed up place to live but a Republican supporting less government intrusion in a person's private life is just...well....(not) Republican.

Ok, what I'm trying to say is that I am speechless that a Republican would NOT place his MORAL authority over everyone by passing a law.

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Zute
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Re: Utah (governor) did something correct

Post by Zute » Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:46 pm

That is surprising, especially with how intrusive Republican's have gotten this year into things like women's health: Reproduction, contraceptive use and so on. They're trying to pass a law in VA to require women get an intrusive, vaginal ultrasound before they can have an abortion. What happened to the whole notion of "smaller government" and the "Nanny state" they're always howling about? Man, you can't get more nannyish than that... except the law in AZ where they're going to make women explain to their employers why they're taking birth control... Crazy times.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-f ... sound-bill
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erianaiel
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Re: Utah (governor) did something correct

Post by erianaiel » Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:38 pm

Zute wrote:That is surprising, especially with how intrusive Republican's have gotten this year into things like women's health:
Look at yesterday's (april 16th) daily show for a long list of mysogenist bills and attempts at laws by republican state legislators. Who then have the gall to howl in outrage over how Obama 'wages war on moms'...
(Mind, apparently if you are poor and unable to find a job to provide for your children you are a welfare queen and deserve to be locked up or forced to work for an income that you can not even travel to your workplace for, but if you are rich you can be a stay at home mom and be honoured for it ...)

I am increasingly inclined to believe that all American women should read 'The Handmaid's Tale', look at the way the wind is blowing in Republicanistan and then get out of the country while they are still allowed to drive a car, leave the home without a male relative supervising them and actually are allowed to have a passport and be allowed to learn to read and write ...

I mean, they already pointed out that women do not need equal pay because they will not continue working once they have a child. The next logical step is saying girls do not need education since that would just be wasted money and effort. And after that it is a tiny step to saying that women can not take care of themselves and need to have a male protector with them at all time to make decisions for them.

Regarding the small government and intrusion. These people only believe in the right of -men-. Apparently women, in their minds, need to be controlled and regulated most strongly lest they do things like develop a mind of their own. Or turn out to be human beings with human needs and desires.
Most religions, but the three big monotheistic ones in particularly, have always been about controlling women (so as to ensure that man was in control and could ensure any children were his). For a conservative movements that seems to consider the 1820s as the ideal society it is no surprise they seek to prevent at all cost to give women any liberty to lead an independent life.


Eri

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Zute
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Re: Utah (governor) did something correct

Post by Zute » Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:54 pm

Even more frightening is that a lot of this legislation is being written by a shadowy group called ALEC which had a secret donor list of major corporations and right-wing republicans. The group was writing "model" legislation and legislators were passing it off as things their constituents were demanding. Evil... very evil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_L ... ge_Council
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Tudamorf
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Re: Utah (governor) did something correct

Post by Tudamorf » Sat Apr 21, 2012 9:17 am

erianaiel wrote:Regarding the small government and intrusion. These people only believe in the right of -men-. Apparently women, in their minds, need to be controlled and regulated most strongly lest they do things like develop a mind of their own. Or turn out to be human beings with human needs and desires.
You forget that the conservative women feel exactly the same way. If they didn't, and all of the women voted for liberal candidates, there would be no "Republican" party in America.

On a simpler level, if women simply refused to have sex with conservative Christian men, you'd see the largest sudden male conversion to atheism in all history.

You can't blame the men when women are equally culpable for their own subjugation. More culpable really, since women, not men, control evolution.

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Zute
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Re: Utah (governor) did something correct

Post by Zute » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:10 pm

There's always a segment of the population that likes to maintain the status quo, no matter how repressive it is to them, personally. It isn't like Islamic women all universally think their religious laws are wrong and being covered from head to toe in black cloth is wrong somehow.

It's the moderate Republicans -- seems hard to believe they even exist any longer -- that would take issue with such things. In my mind moderate and Republican are two words that hardly seem to go together... sort of like gay Republican.
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Tudamorf
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Re: Utah (governor) did something correct

Post by Tudamorf » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:24 pm

Zute wrote:There's always a segment of the population that likes to maintain the status quo, no matter how repressive it is to them, personally. It isn't like Islamic women all universally think their religious laws are wrong and being covered from head to toe in black cloth is wrong somehow.
This is America, not Saudi Arabia or Iran.

Women can vote freely, and don't have to worry about retribution (and they make up a majority of voters). They can also refuse to have sex with men, without retribution.

They vote for, and have sex with, these nutjob extremist Christians, of their own free will.

Direct your anger at women, not men.

erianaiel
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Re: Utah (governor) did something correct

Post by erianaiel » Tue Jun 12, 2012 12:00 pm

Tudamorf wrote:Direct your anger at women, not men.
Actually ... direct your anger at people who seek to force their believes on others and who seek to restrict other people so they live in accordance with their own self-imposed rules. The gender of these people is immaterial.

(and you as always conveniently forget that every one of us believes what we have grown up to believe. E.g. you are free to wear a dress, but I am not expecting to see you do so, because you believe (despite there being no phsyical or biological reason for it) that dresses are for women and never for men. That does not make you a self-hating dresswearer suppressing man, but simply a product of your culture. Same thing with these conservative women. They come from a culture where certain things are taught to be unquestioned truths. You and I may believe them to be misguided, but that does not make them reprehensible as you try to do).


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Tudamorf
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Re: Utah (governor) did something correct

Post by Tudamorf » Tue Jun 12, 2012 2:27 pm

erianaiel wrote:
Tudamorf wrote:Direct your anger at women, not men.
Actually ... direct your anger at people who seek to force their believes on others and who seek to restrict other people so they live in accordance with their own self-imposed rules. The gender of these people is immaterial.
Then why are you directing your warning towards American women? They obviously want it or else they'd be voting against it.

If every woman in America voted against "Republicans," there would never be another one elected. In fact, given how close most elections are today, if even half of "Republican"-voting women switched their vote, there would probably never be another "Republican" elected outside of local elections in extreme rural areas.
erianaiel wrote:and you as always conveniently forget that every one of us believes what we have grown up to believe.
Not necessarily. For example, I was not raised to be an atheist.

And unlike Muslim countries, large areas of our nation are liberal, and free movement to other states is a constitutional right. There is nothing preventing an obese, bible-thumping woman from Arkansas from moving to San Francisco and becoming a liberal feminist vegetarian gay rights activist -- if she wants to.

oddjob1244
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Re: Utah (governor) did something correct

Post by oddjob1244 » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:18 am

AbyssalMage wrote:Utah governor vetoes bill curbing sex education in public schools

OK, Utah is a screwed up place to live but a Republican supporting less government intrusion in a person's private life is just...well....(not) Republican.

Ok, what I'm trying to say is that I am speechless that a Republican would NOT place his MORAL authority over everyone by passing a law.
Well Herbert is a member of the LDS church and the LDS church has a different stance on sex education and birth control than other Christian faiths you're used to hearing about in the news.

From the LDS church handbook: "Where schools have undertaken sex education, parents should seek to ensure that the instructions given to their children are consistent with sound moral and ethical values."

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