On the roads in Libertarian Land

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Zute
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On the roads in Libertarian Land

Post by Zute » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:55 am

Okay, calling India Libertarian Land is probably stretching it a bit, but when you can have completely circumvent regulations through bribery it seems like you end up with what a lot of Libertarian's would consider a good thing.

Driving in India: Cars, Corruption, Collisions
Having illegally obtained their licenses, drivers often pay little attention to traffic laws. "There is absolute lawlessness on the streets," says Satyendra Garg, New Delhi's joint police commissioner for traffic. "Unless there is a policeman at every intersection, people don't obey any traffic rules." That helps make India's congested roads the deadliest in the world. According to a government report, crashes in India killed 119,860 people in 2008 (an average of 327 a day), compared with 37,261 fatalities in the U.S. Traffic accidents cost the nation about 3 percent of its gross domestic product every year, according to Indian government data.
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Fyyr
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Re: On the roads in Libertarian Land

Post by Fyyr » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:43 pm

Why would bribery be a Libertarian good thing?

Last time I checked, the 2010 census is not out that I know of, the US has roughly 300 million people.
http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=usp ... tion+of+us

http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb- ... n+of+india

Puts India's population at roughly 4 times that.
119K divided by 37K is 3.21.
India's per capita fatalities appears lower than the US's. Or close enough for government work.

Fyyr
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Re: On the roads in Libertarian Land

Post by Fyyr » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:48 pm

I suggest you check out John Stossel's
"Is America Number One?"

I don't suppose India has changed much since it aired.

Palarran
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Re: On the roads in Libertarian Land

Post by Palarran » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:17 am

I'd expect a smaller percentage of India's population to be driving, though--and perhaps driving shorter distances. Anyone know the fatality rate per mile driven (or similar statistic) in each country?

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Tudamorf
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Re: On the roads in Libertarian Land

Post by Tudamorf » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:40 am

Zute wrote:
Having illegally obtained their licenses, drivers often pay little attention to traffic laws.
Because the legally licensed drivers in the U.S. do pay attention to traffic laws? :roll:

Not to mention India probably has worse roads, less traffic systems, older/less reliable cars, and so on.

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Zute
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Re: On the roads in Libertarian Land

Post by Zute » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:30 am

So not having to be licensed to drive is not the issue in India?

When you can buy your way out of anything, why obey any law? It might as well be the anarchy Libertarians love.
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Tudamorf
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Re: On the roads in Libertarian Land

Post by Tudamorf » Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:15 pm

Zute wrote:So not having to be licensed to drive is not the issue in India?
That depends what's required for the license.

In the United States, it's just another tax/identity collection process, and no indicator of ability.

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Re: On the roads in Libertarian Land

Post by Fyyr » Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:00 pm

Zute wrote:It might as well be the anarchy Libertarians love.
A society can have a peaceful Anarchy, or at least with only a few laws needed for peaceful social interaction.

If you harm another, the punishment should be so severe as to not be irresponsible in the first place.

Attempt murder, life in prison.
Murder, life in prison.
Hit someone in car when you're high or drunk, life in prison.
Run into someone's house when you're high or drunk, life in prison.
Rob someone with a weapon, life in prison.
Rape someone(real rape, not the feminist fake rapes), life in prison.

Lashing is pretty good punishment for petty crimes against other people.
Burglary.
Shop lifting.
Vandalism.
Breach of contract.
Fraud.
Etc.

And corporations, or any of their employees, would not be exempt from criminal law.
Pollute a water shed which people drink from, every employee of that company gets lashed or sent to prison for life(if any person died as a result).
Simple.

It would cut down on a lot of real crime. Make the rest of us freer.

You would virtually wipe out every civil law in existence. Half the law is gone right there.
You would wipe out most of corporate law, leaving contract law pretty much only with criminal.

I don't understand your reasoning, that Libertarianism is anarchy. The founders of this country were libertarians.

India has 10 fold more laws than we do. It is hardly an anarchy.

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Zute
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Re: On the roads in Libertarian Land

Post by Zute » Sun Dec 19, 2010 9:31 pm

How do you afford to build all those prisons without extremely high taxes? We're already way overcrowded on prisons with the 3-strikes law in CA. So much so we have to let them out.

That sounds like an awful lot of rules and regulations for a libertarian. Are you sure you are one?
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Fyyr
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Re: On the roads in Libertarian Land

Post by Fyyr » Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:27 am

Half the people in prison today, are in prison for drug offenses. Kick them out. They should not be there in the first place.

Libertarians don't have a problem with victimless 'crimes'. Drug use, drug possession, and drug selling are victimless(they are not even crimes). Sodomy crimes? Crimes of sex between consenting adults. Those are YOUR crimes, not Libertarian crimes. You own them, middle class middle America women and men crybabies, you put them in place, you take responsibility for them.

That is a lot of left over room, if you clear all those innocent people out. Half, 50%, like 1 out of 2(understand that?). How can I say half of the prison beds would be empty tomorrow if crimes with no victims were abolished so that you would understand?

Remember Tommy Chong got sent to Taft Prison(a private business prison for profit) for 4 years because his son sold a bong to a cop in Minnesota?
Remember that?
How about Paul F. Little, aka Max Hardcore, sentenced to prison(46 months) because he made porn with women who looked younger than 18.
Remember that? ADULT WOMEN!!!

We have a lot of room in prisons. When you kick out half of the people who don't belong there.

The Libertarian rule is...when your fist hits my nose. That's when you commit a crime.
You break my skin. You break my bone.
You piss in my water.
Shit on my property, steal my property.
Those are crimes.

I can give you a thousand crimes you middle class cry babies have made up over the last 30 years. A thousand. Where there is no criminal. No crime. And no victim. A thousand, you doo gooders have projected on the rest of us. A thousand, without even trying. Wanna try me? Ok, I won't post a thousand, I know you all have the attention span of a ten year old(raised on reality TV). I will give you two. Helmet laws, and seat belt laws. How much money has California spent in the last 10 years putting up all those highway signs, "Click it, or Ticket"? Fucking stupid. Millions upon millions of dollars for all those lit up marquee million dollar freeway signs.

"That sounds like an awful lot of rules and regulations for a libertarian. Are you sure you are one?"

3 Strikes is responsible for cutting California violent crime in half. Do the research. Do the math. Are you sure you want to complain about that one?
(if you made carried concealed legal, it would cut it in half again).

I come up with TWO penalties, and that is too much for you? I make it too simple for even a simpleton, and you think it is too complicated?
Life in prison for any harm to another person. And lashing for any petty or property crime. That's too complicated for you? Two, are too many rules for you?

No wonder TV news plays to a target audience of 10 year olds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAJi-W9o7uU
Last edited by Fyyr on Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:04 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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