Very Interesting Video

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Fyyr
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Very Interesting Video

Post by Fyyr » Thu Mar 24, 2011 10:01 am


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Tudamorf
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Re: Very Interesting Video

Post by Tudamorf » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:08 pm

Yet you deride people like me who tell you that overpopulation is a crisis, objectively provable with facts.

As I've said before, at this stage mostly what is needed to reverse and eventually stop this crisis is a change in opinion, namely the opinion that breeding is a sort of universal good.

When a woman declares she is pregnant and people DON'T automatically say "Congratulations!", we will have already taken a giant leap forwards.

Fyyr
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Re: Very Interesting Video

Post by Fyyr » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:42 pm

I posted that for you, Tudamorf.

I don't deride you because you tell people that overpopulation is a crisis.
It's only because you openly support the 'natural' or Malthusian solutions to overpopulation that Dr. Bartlett shows we should not support.
I believe that was Brown who gave you those notions; if not Brown, I don't know where.

You've read my stuff. I fully support contraception. And am an active abortion proponent. We should bomb Appalachia and Africa with condoms. And no abortion should cost the patient a dime. But I also support eliminating AIDS, just because its a disease which can and should be eliminated. Using the same methods used to eliminated or control other like diseases. I don't buy your argument that it should be the means for population control.

Like Bartlett says, we will get to zero population growth, or negative population growth. We WILL. Whether we like it or not. Both you and I will be dead by then.

Fyyr
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Re: Very Interesting Video

Post by Fyyr » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:47 pm

I also posted it for Pan.

To counter her recurrent, "The rich get richer, and the poor get poorer" routine.

He shows what I have repeatedly showed on this forum.

As inflation increases, it increases exponentially.
Wages increase exponentially, accordingly to each wage.
But the DIFFERENCE between a high and low wage will only increase arithmetically.

That's shown in his charts.
Just like I have shown with my models in the past.

AbyssalMage
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Re: Very Interesting Video

Post by AbyssalMage » Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:01 am

Wow, its been awhile sense I watched this video. Think the last time I watched it was in early 2000, mabye 2003. Im thinking 2003 because that was the start of the Iraq war. I also remember some of what he said was debunked by science but most of it was quite informative and spot on.

But again, thanks for linking the video's Fyyr, I truly do enjoy them.

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Tudamorf
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Re: Very Interesting Video

Post by Tudamorf » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:57 pm

Fyyr wrote:It's only because you openly support the 'natural' or Malthusian solutions to overpopulation that Dr. Bartlett shows we should not support.

You've read my stuff. I fully support contraception. And am an active abortion proponent.
Birth control is a long-term measure which only works when you plan ahead for decades. Most people are incapable of planning ahead further than 5 minutes.

And sometimes, you reach a tipping point where the natural death rate is insufficient.

It's not that war, disease, and starvation are desirable, it's that they're necessary, and they're going to happen whether you like it or not.

And as long as you continue to try to treat the symptoms (war, disease, starvation, poverty, etc.) instead of the cause, you're just shifting the equilibrium more out of balance, and making the situation worse. Malthus is proven right time and time again in the headlines, yet people continue to ignore him.

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Tudamorf
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Re: Very Interesting Video

Post by Tudamorf » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:00 pm

AbyssalMage wrote:I also remember some of what he said was debunked by science
Arithmetic has been debunked by science in the past decade? Explain.

AbyssalMage
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Re: Very Interesting Video

Post by AbyssalMage » Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:51 pm

Tudamorf wrote:
AbyssalMage wrote:I also remember some of what he said was debunked by science
Arithmetic has been debunked by science in the past decade? Explain.
Not the arithmatic, but the fomula he uses to state his case. The formula is actually a quite bit more complicated, but the simplified version he uses makes the point and are accurate. One of the things he fails to mention (going from memory on the rebuttal of his claims) is that population shifts (i.e. deaths) can also occur at exponential numbers. The problem with population shifts is that we haven't seen one sense Europeons "discovered" America, because desease has been "controlled" for the time being. Life (all living organisms) grow exponentionally (and probably always will), its outside forces that ALWAYS cause population shifts. Life seems to be more LINEAR when stretched over the life span of earth, not exponential, but that is another story and arithmatic problem.

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Tudamorf
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Re: Very Interesting Video

Post by Tudamorf » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:45 pm

AbyssalMage wrote:One of the things he fails to mention (going from memory on the rebuttal of his claims) is that population shifts (i.e. deaths) can also occur at exponential numbers. The problem with population shifts is that we haven't seen one sense Europeons "discovered" America, because desease has been "controlled" for the time being.
But that was an event of limited scope, not an ongoing exponential function.

Human populations had been going up exponentially before that period, and continued to go up exponentially after it. The fact that the total number dropped slightly at one period doesn't change the overall nature of the curve any more than a new oil discovery changes the overall reality of peak oil.
AbyssalMage wrote:Life seems to be more LINEAR when stretched over the life span of earth, not exponential, but that is another story and arithmatic problem.
Life? As in the biomass of all life? Certainly there's a limit. And as the world has filled up with humans, they (and the species that thrive on them) have displaced other species.

But that's another point entirely.

Human population growth is exponential, which is why it should never be allowed to be a positive number.

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Re: Very Interesting Video

Post by AbyssalMage » Sun Mar 27, 2011 1:55 am

Tudamorf wrote:
AbyssalMage wrote:One of the things he fails to mention (going from memory on the rebuttal of his claims) is that population shifts (i.e. deaths) can also occur at exponential numbers. The problem with population shifts is that we haven't seen one sense Europeons "discovered" America, because desease has been "controlled" for the time being.
But that was an event of limited scope, not an ongoing exponential function.

Human populations had been going up exponentially before that period, and continued to go up exponentially after it. The fact that the total number dropped slightly at one period doesn't change the overall nature of the curve any more than a new oil discovery changes the overall reality of peak oil.
AbyssalMage wrote:Life seems to be more LINEAR when stretched over the life span of earth, not exponential, but that is another story and arithmatic problem.
Life? As in the biomass of all life? Certainly there's a limit. And as the world has filled up with humans, they (and the species that thrive on them) have displaced other species.

But that's another point entirely.

Human population growth is exponential, which is why it should never be allowed to be a positive number.
The rebuttel to his lecture is that growth spread over a large time frame is linear, not exponential. The reason it has become exponential is because desease and famine has been basically been put in "check" for the last 100+ years thanks to modern medicine and agriculture. Once we deplete the limited resources that make all the advancements of the last 100+ years that wiped out desease and famine, expect to see the human population growth to become more linear again.

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