Christians: "Thou Shalt Suffer"

The Druids Grove combined Off Topic Forum. Politics, science, random oddities - discuss them all here. - Low Moderation
Fyyr
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:32 am

Re: Christians: "Thou Shalt Suffer"

Post by Fyyr » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:06 am

You will have to have it pointed out to me.
I did not see where the Canadian judges ruled that he was dead.
The first sentence of the article says he was not dead.

"after an Ontario court ruled doctors could remove a breathing tube keeping him alive."

Fyyr
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:32 am

Re: Christians: "Thou Shalt Suffer"

Post by Fyyr » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:15 am

http://www.priestsforlife.org/

Here is the website of the Christian organization responsible for this.
I don't think it's a conspiracy either, they are doing this out in the open.

It's interesting that many have no problem with a religious sect insinuating itself into modern day healthcare.
That's no real secret.

Fyyr
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:32 am

Re: Christians: "Thou Shalt Suffer"

Post by Fyyr » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:05 am

AbyssalMage wrote:Well, he is a vegetable, so he isn't suffering anymore. My heart goes out to the family for losing their son at such a young age, but I think the hospital was correct by not waisting the insurance or tax payers money by performing the operation. If the family wanted to spend their own money (the article didn't say either way) then by all means, the doctors could of performed the surgery. Unfortunately, the boy is already dead, this is more about the greiving of the family.
Additionally for clarification...

Honestly, the cost of a doctor performed tracheostomy is rather meager in the case of this boys care. That is to say, compared to the total cost of care, relatively a trach is very meager. It's an hour of surgeon/OR time at most(with a surg tech and two nurses), and 140ish bucks for the trach tube(as I listed previously). They are very routine.
The images from the Priestforlife site show the boy still intubated, that is, sans trach.
And the term death panels is a term used to describe any group of people who make life and death decisions contrary to one's wishes.
In this case the judge(s) and doctors who made the decision qualify as a 'death panel'.
And this is more about an AntiAbortion group, Christians, and Catholic Church making a statement than about the boy, the family, or healthcare in general. See their website if you don't believe me.

Fyyr
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:32 am

Re: Christians: "Thou Shalt Suffer"

Post by Fyyr » Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:11 pm

I just watched 2 videos of the baby.

He is FAR FAR from brain dead, let alone dead.
He is moving all extremities to stimulation and spontaneously. He is moving his head and neck. He is opening and closing his eyes spontaneously.
And those movements appear from those videos to be voluntary movements, not mere reflexes.

He's not even in a coma, let alone brain dead.
He definitely show signs of microencephalus(so does the father), but we don't euthanize micro brains yet.

Watch the videos of the baby/toddler. It's much different than looking at a still photo.

User avatar
Tudamorf
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:45 am
Location: San Francisco

Re: Christians: "Thou Shalt Suffer"

Post by Tudamorf » Tue Mar 22, 2011 4:58 pm

Fyyr wrote:I just watched 2 videos of the baby.

He is FAR FAR from brain dead, let alone dead.
He is moving all extremities to stimulation and spontaneously. He is moving his head and neck. He is opening and closing his eyes spontaneously.
And those movements appear from those videos to be voluntary movements, not mere reflexes.
I wouldn't trust any video you see on that whacko priest site.

Nevertheless, society has no business funding the continued bodily functions of sub-Epsilons.

If your old man in the sky tells you to do it, you can pay for it yourself. I have no problem with that whatsoever.

Fyyr
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:32 am

Re: Christians: "Thou Shalt Suffer"

Post by Fyyr » Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:16 pm

I stated that we don't euthanize micro brains yet.

But that kid has a Glasgow Coma Scale of 10, at least, 4, 1, 5.
He is not brain dead, or legally dead, Tudamorf.
He is not even in a coma. Thats a GCS of 8 or less.
Brain dead does not even enter into the situation until after 1,1,1.
And Ive had patients come out of 1,1,1s to 4,5,6.

User avatar
Tudamorf
Posts: 369
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:45 am
Location: San Francisco

Re: Christians: "Thou Shalt Suffer"

Post by Tudamorf » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:31 am

Fyyr wrote:I stated that we don't euthanize micro brains yet.
Euthanize? I said that I don't want to spend a fortune to artificially sustain someone else's vegetable.

If they want to do it, they can pay for it (and I don't mean via insurance, which is just another way of taking my money). Or they can take him home.

AbyssalMage
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:06 am

Re: Christians: "Thou Shalt Suffer"

Post by AbyssalMage » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:09 am

Fyyr wrote:I just watched 2 videos of the baby.

He is FAR FAR from brain dead, let alone dead.
He is moving all extremities to stimulation and spontaneously. He is moving his head and neck. He is opening and closing his eyes spontaneously.
And those movements appear from those videos to be voluntary movements, not mere reflexes.

He's not even in a coma, let alone brain dead.
He definitely show signs of microencephalus(so does the father), but we don't euthanize micro brains yet.

Watch the videos of the baby/toddler. It's much different than looking at a still photo.
Then I take back my earlier comments....
The article made him sound like he was brain dead, or at least had no measurable brain function.
I agree with the parents and their decision to move them if this kind of movement was voluntary and he showed responsiveness.

AbyssalMage
Posts: 156
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:06 am

Re: Christians: "Thou Shalt Suffer"

Post by AbyssalMage » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:18 am

Tudamorf wrote:
Fyyr wrote:I stated that we don't euthanize micro brains yet.
Euthanize? I said that I don't want to spend a fortune to artificially sustain someone else's vegetable.

If they want to do it, they can pay for it (and I don't mean via insurance, which is just another way of taking my money). Or they can take him home.
Although I wouldn't want to spend a fortune....Life is worth more than $$$ even if the government (Or you) doesn't agree with that. I feel bad when doctors have to preform triage and decide who lives and dies in crisis situations. This situation seems a little (LOT) different. He's still alive, he should be given everything he needs to live (Short of a heart/kidney transplant, for example) comfortably, even if its only for a few more months.

Fyyr
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2010 2:32 am

Re: Christians: "Thou Shalt Suffer"

Post by Fyyr » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:34 am

Heart kidney transplant?

He needs a brain transplant, AM.

http://www.priestsforlife.org/frontline ... tripid=741

See, he is trached and pegged(just like I said). He really can live like this indefinitely.
Until infections set in and kill him(sepsis or pneumonia most probably). It could be a few more months, years, or decades.

I have taken care of patients 40 and 50 year olds at this level, and have been this level all their lives.
And you DO spend a fortune for this care.
I'm not cheap, by any means. Nor are any of my cohorts.
This is very expensive care.

http://www.priestsforlife.org/babyjoseph/index.aspx

The Catholics are passing the plate to pay for the care though, good job.
But knowing them, they will probably spend a bunch of it on sacramental wine and candles, and anti abortion advertising and lobbying.

Post Reply