Fructose=Poison

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Fyyr
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Fructose=Poison

Post by Fyyr » Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:22 am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6 ... ata_player
Ok, I'm sold.
I don't think I want to cut down on my etoh consumption. But fructose? I can do that.

I have a coworker friend who is doing the Paleolithic diet. It's too effective for him he says. He's lost more weight than he wanted.

Posted by iPhone. If link doesnt work search "sugar bitter truth".

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Zute
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Re: Fructose=Poison

Post by Zute » Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:55 pm

I watched that video quite some time ago. It's funny it is just now making news. Gary Taubes, famed science journalist, wrote about that video and about his own research into the issue: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/magaz ... .html?_r=2

I've been following a mostly paleo diet for 5-6 years. It helped a lot with my autoimmune arthritis.

Anyway, here's a summary from Time magazine for those without the attention span or time to watch the video. I'd watch the video though, it's good!
http://healthland.time.com/2011/04/22/5 ... gar-video/
Formerly known as Panamah

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Tudamorf
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Re: Fructose=Poison

Post by Tudamorf » Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:13 pm

Fyyr wrote:Ok, I'm sold.
That's funny, when I tried to explain you to the differences in fructose metabolism in the "corn sugar" thread a few months ago, you called me stupid and unscientific and said sugars are all the same.

Maybe there's hope for you yet on other scientific issues (global warming?).

You all eat 63 pounds of HFCS per year? I don't even eat 1 gram per year.

Fyyr
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Re: Fructose=Poison

Post by Fyyr » Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:33 pm

You did not explain it the way that he does.

He makes sense.

You did not. I suggest that you if want to convince others, you adopt his Powerpoint, use his video. It helps also, if you know what you are talking about. And if you still think that 1gm of HFCS compared to 63lbs really is a great comparison, then you still don't get it, and are a horrible spokesperson for your cause. You're missing the point if you think that fructose(HFCS) is much different than sucrose. Last time I went to the grocery store, they did not have bags of crystalized glucose on the shelves.

It is not funny at all. I am intelligent enough to make a change to my knowledge or opinions given new EVIDENCE. And I do. Most people are clearly never that smart.

Also note that a lot of what I wrote back then is exactly what he states.
Suger(can sucrose) is half glucose and half fructose. Pretty much equal to HFCS in total amount of fructose. I wrote that.
I wrote that fructose what fructose, whether it was from soda or an orange or watermelon or honey.
I also wrote that sports energy drinks I found in athletic stores were primarily HFCS.
I also wrote that fruit juices with natural fructose had more fructose that HFCS sodas.
I wrote that HFCS is used because it is cheaper. Cheaper to send syrup, minus water, to distribution centers where it is de-concentrated.

What I also wrote was what my nutrition textbooks teach(I quoted verbatim, with text and page reference, iirc), that fructose is turned into glucose in the liver.

That appears to be false. And I am not above unlearning learned falsehoods.

He does gloss over waste, in reference to calories in calories burned(the fart or fat thing). I think intuitively that should be researched more. If I eat a candy bar of 300 calories, and poop out 150 of it, I am not really consuming 300 calories. Only 150 enter my system.

I am also reminded of ADM commercials on Sunday morning news/talk shows from when I was a kid in the 70s. Any of you remember them? Or know what the relevance is now?

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Zute
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Re: Fructose=Poison

Post by Zute » Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:28 pm

Tudamorf wrote:
Fyyr wrote:Ok, I'm sold.
That's funny, when I tried to explain you to the differences in fructose metabolism in the "corn sugar" thread a few months ago, you called me stupid and unscientific and said sugars are all the same.

Maybe there's hope for you yet on other scientific issues (global warming?).

You all eat 63 pounds of HFCS per year? I don't even eat 1 gram per year.
I might have said sucrose and HFCS are pretty close to being the same thing, one very nearly as bad as the other. I very rarely eat sucrose or HFCS or any of the popular alternatives like agave syrup, which is higher in fructose than HFCS. I also don't over indulge in high-sugar fruit, and never drink fruit juice. Over consuming fructose in any form is just asking for NAFLD, insulin resistance and a whole slew of problems.
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Fyyr
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Re: Fructose=Poison

Post by Fyyr » Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:56 pm

Zute wrote: I might have said sucrose and HFCS are pretty close to being the same thing, one very nearly as bad as the other..
What is the difference between them?

Besides sucrose predominantly coming from sugar cane or beets. And HFCS coming from corn. That is.

That is. They both contain the same relative amount of fructose.


And less actual fructose, than say, honey or watermelon. Or an orange.

Tudamorf is a vegetarian vegan of some sort, per his posts. If he is not consuming sucrose or fructose in his diet, not eating fruits. Then he is subsisting on plant proteins and fats mostly, tuber carbohydrates. He is going to be an unhealthy friggen rail. And I always pictured him as kind of rotund, actually. I see him now as some sort of SF concentration camp survivor.

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Gunny Burlfoot
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Re: Fructose=Poison

Post by Gunny Burlfoot » Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:18 am

I don't know about Tuda, but I haven't been consuming sucrose, fructose, high fructose corn syrup, lactose, maltose, dextrose, or anything else with a suffix ending in -ose, since March 1997. Neither do I eat corn, potatoes, peas, carrots, beets, fruit, berries, wheat, barley, or any starch or grain. I do eat soy flour substitutes for bread, usually flatbread. I only eat vegetables with a low glycemic index, which coincidentally, are the very same vegetables that are good for you, such as broccoli, red and green peppers, onions, leeks, cauliflower, green beans, celery, avocado, tomatoes (sparingly), Brussels sprouts, cabbage, the lettuce group, soybeans, etc. I also eat any meat or cheese I wish (mostly broiled fish and baked chicken), and some nuts, also with low glycemic index (peanuts are not low enough, but almonds are)

I am not lean as a rail. I am not obese. I am just average.

I do break the diet and eat what I want for 3 days, 4 times a year, so that I might enjoy an occasional cake or pie or cookie. Or French fry. Also to avoid the body completely adapting to this diet, so that my weight will stay lower than it would otherwise.

All refined sugar, no matter the source, is bad for the human body. It is not designed for it, and doesn't react well to it. Neither does the highly refined flours and processed food.You should not require a chemical engineering degree to decipher what you are eating. I go for foods that have at most 5 ingredients, usually (food), salt, and coloring. I'd prefer just one. The steamable veggies in the freezer section are great.
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Fyyr
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Re: Fructose=Poison

Post by Fyyr » Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:26 am

Gunny Burlfoot wrote:I also eat any meat or cheese I wish
Tudamorf is a vegan vegetarian.

He ostensibly eats what you eat minus meat and cheese. I suppose that you probably have a healthy BMI. I am at the top of the unhealthy BMI, I am over weight. I suppose he is in the underweight BMI. If he eats what he says he eats.

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Tudamorf
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Re: Fructose=Poison

Post by Tudamorf » Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:43 am

Fyyr wrote:
Zute wrote: I might have said sucrose and HFCS are pretty close to being the same thing, one very nearly as bad as the other..
What is the difference between them?
One is 55% fructose and the other is 50%. It's right in his slides, and it's what I tried to explain to you before.
Fyyr wrote:You're missing the point if you think that fructose(HFCS) is much different than sucrose.
I didn't say it was MUCH different, I said it was different. And that not all sugars are created equal (not necessarily referring to sucrose).

You argued that that wasn't true, and that -- I quote -- "Sugar is sugar. Your body turns all sugars(all carbohydrates for that matter) wherever they come from into glucose" and that "HFCS is no more related by itself to obesity than the over consumption of any other sugar."

Those are direct quotes, from you, that were totally wrong. I tried to explain to you the mechanism of fructose metabolism, but you didn't get that either.

Well at least someone convinced you.
Fyyr wrote:Last time I went to the grocery store, they did not have bags of crystalized glucose on the shelves.
Ever heard of maltose? That's where brown rice syrup (a popular alternative sweetener) gets most of its sweetness.

You can also buy crystallized glucose, but it's not commonly used in cooking in my experience.

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Tudamorf
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Re: Fructose=Poison

Post by Tudamorf » Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:29 am

Fyyr wrote:If he is not consuming sucrose or fructose in his diet, not eating fruits. Then he is subsisting on plant proteins and fats mostly, tuber carbohydrates. He is going to be an unhealthy friggen rail. And I always pictured him as kind of rotund, actually. I see him now as some sort of SF concentration camp survivor.
Of course I eat sugars in fruit.

We're talking about added sugars, in processed foods, both of which you should avoid.

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