OK....I am tired of everyone blaming SOE for guilds disbanding in EQ and folks leaving for "greener pastures" like EQ2 and WoW.
I started playing EQ in October 1999.............I am a casual player......you could still be a group player, solo artist, or into raids in EQ. SOE has added many expansions, with different quests and new items to obtain. The graphics have become uber, just look at the new Lavastorm.
There was no reason for folks to leave.
****Let me see.....Druids wanted 100% Rez, Necros wanted SOW, Clerics wanted ports, Shamans wanted pets as strong as Beastlords, then Beastlords wanted DD spells as strong as a Wizard, Rangers wanted more Warrior qualities and yet better spells................COME ON FOLKS.............This was a game we all enjoyed for so many years. Everyone just complained too much and then left due to unwanted frustration that was not necessary.
Now folks brag how great WoW is because you can ride on a Griffon????????
Are you kidding me?? That's a reason to leave EQ?
In half an hour in EQ, even solo, you can still have fun.................you folks who left, you guilds that disbanded..........you are the ones who destroyed EQ............NOT SOE!!!!

I don't recall wanting a 100% rezz, I don't recall ever seeing a druid ask for a 100% rezz. I don't recall clerics wanting ports, or necros wanting SoW. Heck, I don't recall ANYONE blaming SoE for all that has happened.

And the griffons pwn the first 5 times you ride them.

Etcha Sketches are still fun too. Oh, I know them new fangled computer things took a lot people awy from Etcha Sketching but, whilikers, it's still fun! You can do it alone or you can get someone else to operate one of the knobs and make some kind of crazy drawing!

If people left it was probably for a reason. People don't generally leave their hobbies unless there's a reason for it, like it isn't enjoyable any longer.

Necros wanted SOW

No we didn't. What the **** are you talking about?

By saying Necros wanted SOW, etc..............I wasnt looking to be specific.....i was just saying that players kept wanting more and more from SOE.....and forgot the game they started playing for fun years ago. Maybe only those of us who started back in 1999 would understand.
But I am tired of the whining and complaining from each class that they get shortchanged, that was my point....my examples were meant to be sarcastic.
You deal with the cards you are dealt.......you all think you will find greener pastures with other games, good luck............you will be whining about those games also.
EQ was a family, a tradition in the making..............and you all ruined it by leaving because of childish reasons.
And yes.....if a person complains about one game like EQ, they will complain, whine, and cry about new games also.
Shame on the high end guilds in EQ for disbanding. You all ruined EQ forvever.
:tut:

Shame on the high end guilds in EQ for disbanding
yes. god-forbid people move on.

I have no idea what the **** you're talking about, So here's a picture of a rabbit with a pancake on its head.

http://www-scf.usc.edu/~mrubenst/mikerubenstein.jpg

And in other news, Flow of consciousness style message board postings are bad, mmmkay.

Shame on the high end guilds in EQ for disbanding. You all ruined EQ forvever.

ost encounters high end guilds were at required more people than they had.

Sure you can log on for a half hour and have fun. I still do, on alts. But to actually progress in the game is still a timesink. Experience post-65 goes at a crawl. Rune farming is frustrating. Trying to find a pickup raid to get the few flags I still need for EP (the couple that my guild likely won't do, like Carp) is almost impossible now.

Some folks won't, or can't, devote that much time to a game. Many others have simply followed their friends to other games.

No one's ruined EQ. The game is nigh 6 years old, and for some people, it was simply time to move on.

Definately an interesting school of thought Tejaye, although I find myself needing to dispute one point......

you folks who left, you guilds that disbanded..........you are the ones who destroyed EQ............NOT SOE!!!!

EQ is not destroyed!!!
EQ is no longer over populated. It's at a comfortable size. We are deeply engulfed in what I and I'd like to think many consider one of the best expansions thus far and we are on the verge of release of a brand new expnasion that's adding some real kick assed new cool features with stellar graphics.

Is Everquest smaller than it was 6 months ago? Of course it is. That doesn't mean its dead.

This game has a lot of life left in it and I intend to enjoy it!!

Not this again!!

Since I am one of the targetted demographic, I'll take the bait.

If you think the raid guilds disbanding was the cause of the decline in the number of EQ players, you are totally wrong. Its actually the reverse. The general decline in the number of players caused raid guilds to disband. It just happens that disbanding high end guilds were newsworthy events that made the entire playerbase aware of the population decline.

I feel that it is a combination of things involved, not just 1 or 2 things.

1. EQ is dated.
2. End game is well, at the end.
3. SOE isint supporting a older game fully, eventhough they say they are.
Example a. Training Guides in EQL for EQ2 and the seasoned guides leaving the program.

Example b. changing the petition system to be more automated and farming out to other countries to lower costs.

4. Boredom

5. WOW is a very fun/fresh game. (My wife plays and i look over her shoulder)
She is a exception to the rule though cause she is currently playing UO. /shrug

BTW. I am a very active EQCleric and have never saw another Cleric ask for ports.

This isn't even worth responding to, where do these morons come from? Go play Diablo or something.

Teja is off his medication again, it seems...

They make an anti-stupid medication? Wow!

What's with all the ..... the ..... start to getting annoying after a......while and don't really help your.....point if you have a.....point that is.


:whistle:

I think EQ is better now. The server population has shrunk, and I have found it makes people more friendly and interdependent. The named I want are more likely to be up. The lag approaching PoK bank is reduced. And I have actually had to make new friends, which really sucks (oh wait! I like these people!)

Maybe I am just easily amused, or maybe it is my server. On Zeb we still have get-out-the-popcorn quality inter-guild drama, a general atmosphere of respect and cooperation, a decent top guild that we can cheer on and be offended by, and indignant lowbies to apologize to when we accidentally steal their kills. Everything I love about EQ is still humming along nicely.

The new expansions make my toes curl in delight, and I want the druid class to have a good strong role (or 10) so that I can really enjoy them to the fullest. So rant on!

a decent top guild that we can cheer on and be offended by
Amen!

Look.............EQ meant a lot to me...........I was around when being a level 50 meant something. When it was tough to do.

Kadaj-san! =) Nice pancake.

The reason I quit EQ was because of the grind. Grind grind grind. EQ2 is a light-hearted, fun version and therefore a no-brainer choice for someone like me.

I was around when being a level 50 meant something. When it was tough to do.
You have completely mis-judged this community if you think it's populated by members who were not also the very same thing. This is *the* oldest EQ community that there is, and many of our readers and posters go way back to pre-release beta. Railing against us as if we didnt understand is both foolish and incorrect.

I suggest you just let it go and take out your frustrations by going out and getting some sunshine and exercise. Does me a world of good.

She is a exception to the rule though cause she is currently playing UO. /shrug
I loved UO :grin:

I liked Lineage 1 alot too.

Speaking of Lineage, I like naked dark elves. EQ needs an (anatomically correct) nude model hack.

So the new game WoW has been discussed as a solo players dream.........................so is EQ2 able to have the same solo content, if not better - than EQ1?
I heard EQ2 requires groups more than EQ1 does.....so which is correct?
And since EQ2 is still EQ, what makes it better than EQ1 making so many players go to it?

I think the basic overall question is...........What could SOE have done for EQ1 to have made all of the players stay. What could SOE have done different to have made you all stay?
:smoke2:

What could SOE have done different to have made you all stay?

In short, nothing. The long answer in order for EQ to keep me it would have had to make changes to the fundamental aspects of the game that got me to play in the first place. Changing those would make me want to play a different game though, as it would no longer be EQ. What finally got me to mostly leave for WoW was the fact that WoW is a new game. It can be different without ever making me long for what I used to have and is now no longer available to me.

I love EQ still and keep up to date on most changes (though noy quite as much as I once did) but in the end I like a game where a solo fight won't take me 3-4 minutes, grouping is entirly optional and generally not that great of an idea just for leveling up (early on at least), levels don't take for ever to complete, and classes are generally pretty unique and all cover more than one group role.

So yeah, unless you want to rework everything that makes EQ, I just don't see myself coming back. I would say that a large number of people should be coming back in a short amount of time though. At least if these games are anything like all of the EQ killers before them.

Shame on the high end guilds in EQ for disbanding

WTF?? Are we plalying the same game here? I know on my server the 'high end guilds' are alive and doing well. Yes we took some hits when some elected to move on but guess what? Recruitment solved that issue. We are still a 'high end guild' as are our major competition 'high end guilds' and we all took the same approach..recruitment has helped several guilds survive. Some merged with each other to form one guild from two.
So no, I'm not going to sit passively by while you invent some lame ass excuse to cover your personal pity fest and start pointing fingers, remember, when you point one finger at someone else, 4 more are pointing back at you..
High end guilds did not 'ruin' eq for anyone, if you feel eq is ruined for you then perhaps it is time for you to consider moving on to something you will enjoy more.

Brightest Blessings.

So what? I was around when it was lvl 50 too :P
people leaving are not ruining EQ, it's not their fault if they want to move on.

Well, I for one played EQ since release which by my count was over 5 years at least. It took a lot for me to quit and then some newbie comes and says I ruined EQ? Sorry you feel that way but SoE ruined my game with their buggy patches, creating a "Vision" then not equiping players to fulfill it, and creating a rift between the casual players and end game players larger than the grand canyon. I used to enjoy playing solo, grouped or raids through the original game and first couple expansions but by the end I was just under equiped to continue in "Their World".

If I left, it wouldn't be because any of those things you named. It wouldn't be becase of SoE either. It would be because of selfish small groups that don't let others join because they want every 0.1% experience they can get. There just aren't a lot of players in the zones anymore and a lot of the times when there are a few people around, they don't let you into their group. Soloing gets really boring after awhile.

Kulo..........I am not a newbie. I have been playing EQ since the beginning. I can see I have been, am currently, and will be more dedicated to EQ than you EVER.
:bs:

As we can see here, length of time played does not necessarily equate to any sort of authority or intelligence on game matters. Some people will always be noobs.

As we can see here, length of time played does not necessarily equate to any sort of authority or intelligence on game matters. Some people will always be complete blithering idiots.

Fixed.

I still have access to my EQ1 account through the SOE All Access Pass. I logged into EQ1 last night and sat in PoK lfg for 1 hour and 45 minutes as a lvl 53 Cleric. I got asked to join a couple guilds, but no groups. The servers are a wasteland in the low and mid levels. You have to buy buffs from other players in PoK to even solo at a respectable pace.

It's time for SOE to make some drastic and fast changes to EQ1. They need to consolidate servers, increase the xp gained from level one to fifty and then start toning it down. They also need to increase the rate at which AAXP is gained. It's the only way someone new that joins EQ will be able to get to the end game in a reasonable amount of time. Maybe something like the Vitality system in EQ2 could be put into EQ1.

It just takes way too much time for someone new or someone coming back after a long hiatus to get back into the game as a normal player.

AAXP moves plenty fast right now as it is. And I'm not talking about RS or PoFire. WoS groups make aa in an hour or so, and MPG in 45 minutes. And these times are in PU groups. For a person who actually had the playtime and perseverence(sp?) to hit the end game it wouldn't take nearly as long to get the required aa's as it would have, say, during PoP release before most people had EP access.

What could SOE have done for EQ1 to have made all of the players stay. What could SOE have done different to have made you all stay?

I believe others will agree with me on this:

1) Fix the bugs - When new material is released, (ex Secondary Specialization, Advanced Tracking) the bugs are identified in the BETA far and wide. Fix them before releasing the product.

2) Accept Responsibility - When new material is released (aka the Rathe, Uqua) which were unbeatable in their initial forms. Why bother. Leave a note at the zoneline that says "Under Construction" so we don't beat our heads against a wall wondering WTF were they thinking while knowing all along, the content beyond this blockage is unfinished.

3) Acknowledge your failings - Don't expect to be able to blame the players for unbeatable unbalanced content. Step up and say "Thats not finished yet" publicly, and tell us to go do other content. Letting high end guilds grind on uqua for a month while QVIC and other zones were still in development on a released expansion is stupid. (How many of you remember the quadding for 2k adds and quadding for 3k mobs?)

4) Provide in game Support - The GM system when I started playing EQ worked. Guides were there, and provided the first tier of support backed up by boards and GM's. Now you get a ticket thats answered within ooh 2-3 days of submission (maybe better now that 2/3rds of the players quit) telling you, your corpse rotted, your goods are gone, it was a bug, hope your game experience is OK since then.

Other gaming companies provide accountability and accept responsilibity for their failings instead of blaming the players and expecting them to accept a routine kick in the teeth.

Iegil

Thats dead on Iegil - only one stone unturned there... forgot to mention the top notch fellatio Blizzard was delivering to the top guilds at the exact moment they were banging their heads on the walls in Uqua. Timing, timing, timing. :D

Other gaming companies DO take responsibility for their shortcomings - thats a very good point. I think SOE has changed their internal culture on that since the player summit and has become more forthcoming with whats really happening. There was a very long while though when this was not the case and that really soiled SOE's reputation.

Thats dead on Iegil - only one stone unturned there... forgot to mention the top notch fellatio Blizzard was delivering to the top guilds at the exact moment they were banging their heads on the walls in Uqua. Timing, timing, timing. :D

Ahahahaha.

Shame on the high end guilds in EQ for disbanding. You all ruined EQ forvever.

Glad to see I am not the only one who failed to see any reason or logic behind this guy's assertions.

This thread reminds me of an episode of the Family Guy.

"Why did the dinosaurs all die?"

"Because you touch yourself."

Why are we still beating on the same dead horse?

Necrophilia is fun?

Why are we still beating on the same dead horse?

Because PETA will flay us for beating live horses?

We haven't found a new dead horse?

Quite the valid question.

Iegil

iegil = dead on.

Lol, teia, that was brilliant 8P

But... can we beat on a dead donkey?

< partial to zebras :whistle:

Wildabeast <---- just sounds like it needs whipped up on.

:twak: :axe:

boo there's not beating the dead horse emoticon :(

:dh2:

:deadhorse

:lmao:

LMAO :dh2: :deadhorse HAHA

LOL could not help but post and laugh at emoticon

Rofl, love those emoticons! 8)

WoW is the best thing since sliced cheese and there is no problems with it whatsoever. I can't believe there is finally a product with no problems whatsoever and customer service that makes teh mother mary have orgasms!

Who rememberes when they said they would have another summit soon after the original? And has anyone truly noticed any real intrinsic difference since the first one?

They're just public relations events. Much like the epic 1.5/2.0 thread on the EQlive forums. Its just to make us think they care about our input when they don't. If they did, then they would have done something with our update list over the last 6 months, not after more than half of their player base heads to WoW.

I'm sorry about my negative attitude, but after playing a Druid in EQ for over 3 years you get tired of how SOE handles their community.

I guarantee that in 1 year all of you EQ treasonists who fled to WoW and EQ2 will be crying that you sold your Eq accounts or gave them away and you will wish you never quit.
It happened when DAOC came out "Ohhhhh DAOC you all cried,the answer to everything, but it turned into a dud"................I hope you are happy with the Banded armor you will end up with when you come back. Maybe I will give you my Bronze at half price.

You're not only a moron, you're also an ass. May you be impotent and not spread your poor genes for future generations to endure.

I guarantee that in 1 year all of you EQ treasonists who fled to WoW and EQ2 will be crying that you sold your Eq accounts or gave them away and you will wish you never quit.
I didn't sell and I never would. Actually, I'm not playing any MMO atm. I find there are better things to do than play the "let's see which ebay tank will I have to settle for today, because the server is empty" game. I still have hope that SOE sells the rights to EQ to a gaming company that cares. Either that, or truly wakes up to the desires of its community.

I guarantee that in 1 year all of you EQ treasonists who fled to WoW and EQ2 will be crying that you sold your Eq accounts or gave them away and you will wish you never quit.

Not all, but most. This is already begining to happen, and anyone who saw any of the other "EQ killers" comeout should have seen it coming. I would say 20% minimum that left will stay gone for each game. This is typically the amount that seems to leave and stay gone.

The EQ2 players in my guild are begining to come back, but not seeing the WoW people returning.

I do miss the old world sometimes, but don't think I could face going back to all the baggage that came with it. Open encounters, kill stealing, competition for quests, extreme difficulty of quests, twinking, powerlevelling, balance issues, insane downtime, exp grind boredom... not for me!

Got a good guild in EQ2, keeping up with everyone else, going from one quest to the next (finally it lives up to its name) and thoroughly enjoying it. It's one of those things where it's such a relief after EQ1 that I can never imagine going back.

My EQ account has been canceled for almost two years now, mostly thanks to the World of Warcraft <i>beta</i> not to mention the release. I've not even had an inkling to go back to EQ. The "same 'ol problems" conversations in General pretty much cement that feeling. I can also count about fifty or so former EQ guildies who can echo my sentiment who are now spread across several different WoW servers.

Tejaye, did you even read the NYTimes article that I linked? 700k copies of WoW sold worldwide. Those numbers include players who have never even played Everquest. WoW is not another overnight sensation that's going to disappear in a year.

I can't speak for EQ2, because honestly I just plain disliked that game, but I know for a fact that WoW got it right. Previous "Post-EQ" MMO's released with half-assed content, nominal high level prospects, and huge gameplay bugs, all packaged with that "we had to rush this out the door" feeling. WoW is far from perfect - they've got server lag issues and some lack of end game content, but all in all, they got 98% of the game done right. Blizzard knew that releasing a game with five quests and two races wasn't going to cut it, you couldn't release a game that's still in development in this marketplace. Shadowbane tried it, Anarchy Online tried it, Horizons tried it - they all failed. So where World of Warcraft really could have been released a year or more ago stability-wise, they kept it under wraps, kept testing it, kept building content, kept tweaking it, until it felt right to them. And the result is this massive juggernaut that's literally <i>devouring</i> disgruntled MMO players from other games <i>and</i> gaining legions of new fans who have never played a subscription game before.

EQ is seeing the population drop from people who aren't playing anymore, but if it's their first real "I'm quitting Everquest" threat, more than likely their accounts are still active, and will remain so for a few months. My prediction is that it won't be until the players change over their accounts from "hibernating" to "canceled" status is when you'll see the next round of sweeping EQ "player-suggested changes".

I guarantee that in 1 year all of you EQ treasonists who fled to WoW and EQ2 will be crying that you sold your Eq accounts or gave them away and you will wish you never quit.

Dark Ages of Camelot had people returning in under a month.
Star Wars Galaxies had people returning in under a month.
Everquest 2 has people returning to EQ.
WoW has very few people returning.

If all goes well, WoW will have an online life of approximately a year. Then we'll get the next great release, Sigil Games, Vanguard, Saga of Hero's or some such.

It's actually pretty funny too, I know 95% of the people in my WoW guild, DID NOT SELL their EQ accounts. They walked away without renewing them.

It will steal members from EQ1, WoW, EQ2 and other games as the people with the vision who wrote EQ release a new product. Brad McQuaid left Sony over a difference of opinion in how to handle Everquest, and admittedly, it went downhill every month after he left.

Only now, when there is competiton, has Sony stepped up to the plate. That doesn't confuse me at all and I'm going with another companies product.

Iegil

I guarantee that in 1 year all of you EQ treasonists who fled to WoW and EQ2 will be crying that you sold your Eq accounts or gave them away and you will wish you never quit.
It happened when DAOC came out "Ohhhhh DAOC you all cried,the answer to everything, but it turned into a dud"................I hope you are happy with the Banded armor you will end up with when you come back. Maybe I will give you my Bronze at half price.

Lets see... I left so long ago I don't remember how long it was. It was after LDoN came out... I've been playing City of Heroes and generally being unaddicted to games and pretty happy with that. If I wanted to get re-addicted I'd probably pick up WoW. The desire to play EQ1 is so dead a necro couldn't reanimate it, a cleric with a super-charged holy sprinkler couldn't ressurrect it. Its so dead you couldn't get a DNA sample from it and clone it. A mega-ton bomb of Viagra couldn't get a rise in desire in me to play EQ1. That's how dead it is.

It was a good game for its time. R.I.P.

If you've played some of the top rated mmorpgs like coh and wow that were released this year, chances are you won't ever return to EQ. I know I got so used to fighting multiple mobs, with lots of things happening around me that I won't ever be able to go back to EQ's yawnfest of pull single mob, kill, med, rinse and repeat. I tried, even though it was a 65 hard LDoN with a group of close friends, I quickly got so bored I was yawning and nodding off.

I agree with Panamah, EQ was a good game about 2-3 years ago. Not anymore.

I have not played WoW or EQ2. But I want to make a few comments.

I have seen most EQ2 peeps come back to Eq1.

Yes WoW may have better customer support. But it's still new. Eq had good customer supprot once. If WoW does last 5 years plus you don think that whoever ends up buying the rights will not cut back as well?

Someone mentioned single mob pulling content in EQ being boring. Well you can always pull more. Maybe you just need to change the peeps you group with. And try like Uqua where you HAVE to deal with multi mob pulls. /shrug

I agree SoE had been lax on fixing things in EQ. I think alot IS due to trying to keep up with the newer games. Their idea seems to be new content rather than fixing old. Thier descision - good or bad. But I don't think EQ is THAT bad.

And as for old content, old world... compatition for camps, kill stealing etc. You all loved it. And there is almost no down time in EQ anymore. The twinking sucks and the 'lets get my twink to level 70 asap' sucks. You can call a guild raid to help a guildie do an epic event in old world places that many don't know where it is or ever been there. They missed out.

So it looks like WoW might actually last. Good for those that play it and enjoy. EQ is still ok. There are problems - mainly with the balance between casual and end game - but it will be ok. (and wait till WoW or EQ2 get older - similar problems will surface. If you understand how they came about in EQ you know that it is unavoidable in any game). I even see them fixing some things sometime soon (and I'm not talking about the class balance - more like the little anoying things).

I rather liked the old days where you single pulled when you could, like in the Sarnak fort, but when you got adds you did your thing and sat and rezzed/med after. Today it's like a sin to have to stop and med or HP regen. Sure in timed expd you are on a timer. But after you do them a few times you figure them out anyway. Remember, you are not supposed to WIN everything the 1st few times you do them. THAT would be boring. It seems even when say, PoTime is on farm status, peeps are just greedy and want it done as fast as possible so they can get their loots.

Peeps just don't want to take the time to enjoy the game. They just want to be 'uber'. that's why they buy toons already made. To me that spiols it. If you bought the 'best WARR' in the game you would never have enjoyed the making of the toon (even if you could play it well - you missed soooo much)

Tejaye wrote: you are the ones who destroyed EQ

Huh? Damn! I missed another EQ event! Oh well, I guess I'll just keep enjoying my solo time quad kiting in non-crowded zones and fighting mobs that used to be perma-camped but now are available to us casual players.

I guarantee that in 1 year all of you EQ treasonists who fled to WoW and EQ2 will be crying that you sold your Eq accounts or gave them away and you will wish you never quit.

I quit almost a year ago and I'm not coming back, ever. That would be a nightmare.

If WoW does last 5 years plus you don think that whoever ends up buying the rights will not cut back as well?

It doesn't matter. I've played CoH for some months and enjoyed it. Thank you very much NCSoft and I've deleted my account and I can well recommend it to anyone else. I'm going to play WoW for a while and then find something better to do. One bitter bit of experience from EQ is not to stick through lots of dull gameplay (like having to stick through repetative 4 hour raids every day to get any progression at all) to get virtual rewards on an account you'll delete eventually anyway. It's about having fun and CoH and WoW deliver considerably more fun for me, right here right now, than EQ.

I have not played WoW or EQ2. But I want to make a few comments. Your comments don't mean **** since you haven't played either. The rest of your post is disregarded as inane babbling.

I quit almost a year ago and I'm not coming back, ever. That would be a nightmare. I quit actively playing EQ1 well over a year ago and really don't have any plans of ever actively playing anymore. The only reason I still have access to my account is that it's part of the SOE All Access Plan. I wouldn't mind one bit if it wasn't.

Someone mentioned single mob pulling content in EQ being boring. Well you can always pull more. Maybe you just need to change the peeps you group with. And try like Uqua where you HAVE to deal with multi mob pulls. /shrug

Then you you just mez the mobs and fight them one at a time. Yay the chanters gets to do something! EQ is not designed around useing AEs to take out multipulls anymore.

And as for old content, old world... compatition for camps, kill stealing etc. You all loved it.

Actually I hated it. I also hated having to spend 3-4 hours to try and run to a new exp zone on any character that couldn't port, and many other things about the original game. It was designed to keep away any casual player as far as I can tell. This is why I wouldn't touch vanguard with a 20 foot pole.

(and wait till WoW or EQ2 get older - similar problems will surface. If you understand how they came about in EQ you know that it is unavoidable in any game).

No that is pretty wrong as well. EQ2 I am unsure of, but WoW seems to have a lock on it. Being PvP based and making sure level of equipment doesn't matter that much with in that context insures a fan base that won't get ruined by that. Also the PvP rewards for the game will likely be very decent gear given the general design philosophy behind the game. Furthermore even EQ seems to have a handle on things now. Casual players have ample oppurtunity to advance and harcore raiders are still getting content. So no, it isn't un avoidable. Sure some people will whine about this or that, but that doesn't always mean there is a problem.

Your comments don't mean **** since you haven't played either. The rest of your post is disregarded as inane babbling.



Wow, someones angry. I didn't talk at all like I knew anything about the games ans said very little about them. /shrug

Then you you just mez the mobs and fight them one at a time. Yay the chanters gets to do something! EQ is not designed around useing AEs to take out multipulls anymore.



Actually I hated it. I also hated having to spend 3-4 hours to try and run to a new exp zone on any character that couldn't port, and many other things about the original game. It was designed to keep away any casual player as far as I can tell. This is why I wouldn't touch vanguard with a 20 foot pole.



No that is pretty wrong as well. EQ2 I am unsure of, but WoW seems to have a lock on it. Being PvP based and making sure level of equipment doesn't matter that much with in that context insures a fan base that won't get ruined by that. Also the PvP rewards for the game will likely be very decent gear given the general design philosophy behind the game. Furthermore even EQ seems to have a handle on things now. Casual players have ample oppurtunity to advance and harcore raiders are still getting content. So no, it isn't un avoidable. Sure some people will whine about this or that, but that doesn't always mean there is a problem.

I'm sure if I never played EQ and went and found woW I'd like it also. I'm just not done with EQ.

But I disagree on the issue that there will be no problems that arise when you have a large group of players who all work together, spend hours to know every thing possible about the game, play together, are advanced in levels, etc - playing in the same 'world' as newer folks or those that just don't put as much into learning everything and play as much. Could WoW have found the answer? Could be.

I have not played WoW or EQ2. But I want to make a few comments.

Someone mentioned single mob pulling content in EQ being boring. Well you can always pull more. Maybe you just need to change the peeps you group with. And try like Uqua where you HAVE to deal with multi mob pulls. /shrug

y examples might be a little out-dated, since I had already quit EQ by the time OoW was released. However I did have some 4 or 5 mob encounters in Vxed and Tipt (pre-summit changes). Its different. Other than LDoN, post-Luclin expansions have increasingly focused on group vs single-mob encounters. For example, the introduction of group-encounter mobs that can one-shot a well equipped warrior. Yes there were a few specific group trials that dealt with multiple mobs, but those are not the norm. Player tactics in EQ are predominantly designed to fight single mobs. Let me ask how many times have you actually used spells like Bonds of Tunare or Entrapping Roots?

In CoH, ae powers are used in every single fight. Groups typically have multiple tanks or multiple crowd controllers. Most tactics are focused on taking down masses of mobs. Even with so many mobs, these fights last about as long as a single mob fight in EQ. Its an order of magnitude more intense and strategic than any EQ fights I have been in.

There are problems - mainly with the balance between casual and end game - but it will be ok. (and wait till WoW or EQ2 get older - similar problems will surface. If you understand how they came about in EQ you know that it is unavoidable in any game).

When I left EQ, the gear gap was so huge that EQ devs were creating two separate grouping areas every expansion - one area for raiders with raid gear and another for non-raiders with non-raiding gear. This is a bomb with a lit fuse and the words "disaster" written on it. I can understand raiding gear that is 50% better than grouping gear, but raid gear that is 100-200% better? I had known so many friends who felt compelled to raid even though they don't like raiding or have decided its not worth paying money to play the neverending catch up game.

Peeps just don't want to take the time to enjoy the game. They just want to be 'uber'. that's why they buy toons already made. To me that spiols it. If you bought the 'best WARR' in the game you would never have enjoyed the making of the toon (even if you could play it well - you missed soooo much)

I am not getting your point here, what has buying the best toon gotta do with people abandoning EQ? If they are buying toons, they won't be leaving EQ any time soon.

Your comments don't mean **** since you haven't played either. The rest of your post is disregarded as inane babbling.Wow, someones angry. I didn't talk at all like I knew anything about the games ans said very little about them. /shrug

Let me be the translator. I think what Aly was saying is essentially what I am saying; If you have not played other mmorpg, you will find it very difficult to understand why we say that EQ is slow and boring.

Yeah, that's essentially what I was saying. You cannot comment on the longevity of either WoW or EQ2 unless you've actually played either game for a reasonable amount of time.

Today it's like a sin to have to stop and med or HP regen. Yes, it is.

EQ is so damn slow and boring. Pull one mob, grind it dead. Rinse, repeat. Over and over in the same damn spot night after night. Not to mention the hours spent being LFG or just trying to put together a group of low to mid levels on the population decimated servers.

When I log on, I want to be entertained from the moment I log on til I have to log off. Extensive LFG times or lack of soloability or solo content. Horribly long mana regeneration times. Inability to travel quickly (within the character's means). Those are all roadblocks to my entertainment. I do not pay to grind xp. I pay a monthly fee to have fun. I don't give a damn what the morons like in EQ anymore. Cause grinding, raiding, the flagging / keying timesinks were boring, tedious, and way stupid.

I used to do a lot of building/scripting for NWN. It didn't take a genious to figure out what was enjoyable and what was tedious. You'd think an entire team of supposedly game design professionals could've farted a better game than the end game of EQ.

Let me be the translator. I think what Aly was saying is essentially what I am saying; If you have not played other mmorpg, you will find it very difficult to understand why we say that EQ is slow and boring. I enjoy medding for 10 minutes! :banghead:

Another thing to consider is the sheer player base that WoW has now. I mean, seriously, it can lose half its players and easily remain the most played MMO. I think WoW is in for the long haul.

The things I found extremely lacking in EQ that I'm enjoying in new games, and understand others are finally finding in newer games, is the ability to just hop on and play for a short while and advance your character, and advance your storyline. The quest system in EQ was just horrible when I left. I doubt it has improved that much.

EQ was so invested in mega-raiders when I left, they were utterly unapologietic to people who wanted to play casually, I think they lost a lot of their audience that was sick of that attitude. I wouldn't trust EQ to have changed enough to make it enjoyable to me any longer.

When you can "whistle up" a war wolf pet, or shoot a bean bag from a gun, who can go back to the grind that is EQ?

(The temporary powers in CoH are really fun, they're adding a lot to the game).

Back in 1999 through 2001 you same complainers loved EQ............you adored it................and you all know it.
It would take me 3 minutes to kite a Crag Spider in EK at level 22 back in 2000..............then another 6 minutes to med up............but I loved just sitting on the bridge at the NK border, medding, and being a part of the game.
You could run to other games.........but deep down EQ is in your blood and you know it.

You could run to other games.........but deep down EQ is in your blood and you know it.

A large amount of my life, that's just about the most indespensable thing I have in any shape manner or form, my time in my life, and it's been wasted in EQ sitting medding on bridges or waiting for raids to form. I never want minutes or hours of my life wasted like that again on a computer game. That is what I know. If it's in my blood then it's a poison as it's taking valuable time out of my existence.

Back in 1999 through 2001 you same complainers loved EQ............you adored it................and you all know it.
It would take me 3 minutes to kite a Crag Spider in EK at level 22 back in 2000..............then another 6 minutes to med up............but I loved just sitting on the bridge at the NK border, medding, and being a part of the game.
You could run to other games.........but deep down EQ is in your blood and you know it.


People............. might................. like .................you ...............if ................you .............stopped .................spewing ............. random ............... stupid........ stuff..........

Then again probably not.

A large amount of my life, that's just about the most indespensable thing I have in any shape manner or form, my time in my life, and it's been wasted in EQ sitting medding on bridges or waiting for raids to form. I never want minutes or hours of my life wasted like that again on a computer game. That is what I know. If it's in my blood then it's a poison as it's taking valuable time out of my existence.
Bingo!

:deadhorse :dh2: all over again.

Actually... you want my 2 cents?

y 2 cents are that the only thing that this topic did was bring back the EQ haters back to their old trolling EQ hating self. This topic actually gave them a reason to.

I'm surprised that certain H the puppy person hasn't made a new account to flame EQ-players like ourselves in this topic.

y observations:
(numbered for the attention challenged)

1- EQ is not dying.

2- If EQ has lost players and if lots of guilds have collapsed, it's not the fault of the players that left.

a) If you dont like something, you don't do it, you dont approach it, you dont buy it, period. Actually most importantly: you dont speak about it. Speaking about it gives the impression that you still are interested in that particular thing that "you supposedly don't like".

3- EQ2 and WoW aren't the whole reason people left, there are people that leave for other games, or to have much more time in real life.

4- The dead horse is alive, so lets beat it to death again.
:deadhorse :dh2:

EQ Timesinks = listening to people complain about how they arent having fun anymore and it is all someone else's fault. Please, if you are not having fun in EQ, try other games! Spare your guild leader the timesink! If you have tried other games, then great! I wish you the best! Have fun out there and build a new community. And when you come back to visit, try to remember your manners and spare us the details of how boring life is back on the farm.

:P

I agree with Nimchip, EQ is not dying. EQ is still fun. I have tried CoH and it was fun too, but missing the community I care about. I tried WoW and it was really fun, but my family is back on EQ. Does anyone else play for the people, not the game?

Now excuse me a moment, me and the other farmwives have a quilting circle to go to.

4- The dead horse is alive, so lets beat it to death again.
ethinks you just wanted a reason to use those emotes!

Methinks you just wanted a reason to use those emotes!

You better believe it!!!

:dh2:

oops how'd that get in there?

You better believe it!!!

:dh2:

oops how'd that get in there?

Now I know why Nimchip is called "Unkempt druid of the BAD kind", he's into whipping, biting and beating animals :P

:lol:

Back in 1999 through 2001 you same complainers loved EQ............you adored it................and you all know it.
It would take me 3 minutes to kite a Crag Spider in EK at level 22 back in 2000..............then another 6 minutes to med up............but I loved just sitting on the bridge at the NK border, medding, and being a part of the game.
You could run to other games.........but deep down EQ is in your blood and you know it.I had a marriage like this once. Redundant. :sleep: It got old and boring when we got tired of working on it. If I won't stand a boring too-much-work marriage, why, WHY would you want me to endure that pain for my recreation?

Yeah I ruined EQ. I left the game and went to WoW. Why? Because MY life changed and I don't have the TIME to wait around for hours on end waiting for something to happen in the game. In WoW, you control your game and game time. In EQ the game and everyone around you controls your game and play time. Tough choice, eh?

If SOE took their GAME as seriously as many players do however, it WOULD have been a tough choice to make. But if my life hadn't changed, I might still be there. Despite the reasons for the change I am much happier on the online gaming side for it :)

Oh.. PS. I'm so disappointed that the horse contingent is represented TWICE and we have no... NONE, ZIP, ZERO, NADA... cows. :cry:

*sniffle*
....................moo.........

My 2 cents are that the only thing that this topic did was bring back the EQ haters back to their old trolling EQ hating self. This topic actually gave them a reason to.


Yeah! And thanks for that opportunity. It'd been awhile.

The dead horse is a great analogy. EQ is that dead horse. Poor Silver, he was a great pony in his time. Let the rendering begin!

Wait! Wait!!

Cows to get equal exposure too!

]:(:))

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

ACK!!!! This site has actually been COWPROOFED! :cry:

I have ruined EQ?

Nah, it have just stoped to be fun for me. Why?

1- I was in a family type guilde made of casual players. Most of them have quitted to play EQ or gone to the uber guilds way. When you (as guild) can do a big raid 3-5 time by month and that the powergamers want to progress you will lost them. And seeing our target killed by 3-6 uber players don't help for the moral either. Rebuilding the guild and seeing it colapse eacht 9-10 months when we begin to do things that begin to be fun.

2- I have hit a celling while soloing, place that the pp/xp/time ratio is interesting are realy rare. The plane of fire acces wasn't open for my guild.

3- Felling that I was more and more needing a second account to get a KEI or a ress bot. Sorry, but I will not pay for a second account just to be able to solo in a game. Or keeping being level 65 and hunting in the same old zone.

4- The equipement I have get (epic 1.0 and mostly ornate armor and LDoN augment) have costed about 1 000 000 pp (only for the droppable equipement, and it have taken 18 months of farming to get the pp) and the focus on the ornate was only usefull for 5 level? It was a big no way for me.

5- SOE have annonced that EQ is for raiders and EQ2 for the casual players. Ok, but the raiding game wasn't for me as I can play a lot but my schedule time can be erratic and it is hard to have a block of 4+ hours of time without planing for it.

6- EQ have lost it magic, at last for me.

7- Most of the old guildmate are come back online but in WoW.....

It is my fault that EQ is no longuer fun to me? Or it is SOE fault to have forgetten the no raider players? I am no bitter about that, and I will keep the fun and the time passed in EQ as my personnal reference point for the other MMORPG.

Eridalafar
Retired (played from 1999-10-31 to 2005-01-15)
ex co-leader of Silver Drakes
Rotcet Nife server
level 66 druid (203 aaxp)
http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=75168

EQ is that dead horse
Its not a dead horse. First off, there are a lot of people who do still in fact play everquest, so we can't say its dead...however I can't lie and say that no one has quit. Because so many people play EQ for different reasons, we should look at it as a herd of horses...and that a few of those horses in the herd may have broken a leg... ;)

Ok, dead is a little premature. But it definitely suffers from mange and hoof n' mouth disease!

Let me be the translator. I think what Aly was saying is essentially what I am saying; If you have not played other mmorpg, you will find it very difficult to understand why we say that EQ is slow and boring.
No, you don't even have to have been playing another MMO to understand this. I kept looking from one release to the next for something to make EQ fun again. It didn't happen, I left when I realized there was no end in site for the drudgery . Then I played other MMO's and was happy to discover that MMO's don't have to be tedious. I knew they didn't, but the premise of EQ was that doing dull repetitive things is ultimately ever so rewarding. Which maybe some people like, but it never made me quiver.

Ahem, you know what happens to cows, dontcha? Mad Cow disease!

I really have to wonder why those who left EQ still feel the need to justify their decisions. At least, that what it seems like to me. Those who still enjoy EQ tend to wish those who left well and express their hope that they find their fun in other games and are pleased when they do. Why is it that those who quit EQ feel the need to keep putting down EQ to those who still enjoy it?

If you found EQ boring or not fun anymore, that's great that you quit! We're all different. We each find enjoyment in different things. I'm happy you're having fun with EQ2, WoW, CoH, etc. You don't have to keep justifying your choice to leave EQ. Nor will you convince me that I shouldn't be having fun in EQ still since, well, you're not playing it anymore.

And this is from someone who has been playing MPORPGs since 1991 (Constant Companion (Sierra), INN (Sierra/AoL), Meridian59, UO, EQ, DAOC beta, SWG, EQ2 beta, and currently 34 Warlock in WoW. (I mention this since some have said you can't know how awful EQ is unless you've played other games.)

I've seen people come and go from games for one reason or another. What I do find unusual is the passion of the folks who have quit EQ for putting down a game that they played and enjoyed for so many years. Please, just let it go and move on, like you keep saying you have done. :p

I'm not convincing anyone to leave EQ.

I guarantee that in 1 year all of you EQ treasonists who fled to WoW and EQ2 will be crying that you sold your Eq accounts or gave them away and you will wish you never quit.
It happened when DAOC came out "Ohhhhh DAOC you all cried,the answer to everything, but it turned into a dud"................I hope you are happy with the Banded armor you will end up with when you come back. Maybe I will give you my Bronze at half price.

I'm just explaining to the original thread starter why people who left EQ for other games such as CoH and WoW will not come grovelling back.

I guarantee that in 1 year all of you EQ treasonists who fled to WoW and EQ2 will be crying that you sold your Eq accounts or gave them away and you will wish you never quit.
It happened when DAOC came out "Ohhhhh DAOC you all cried,the answer to everything, but it turned into a dud"................I hope you are happy with the Banded armor you will end up with when you come back. Maybe I will give you my Bronze at half price.

Actually I just let my account expire as did many long time players. Why would I want some Newb running around destroying 5 yrs worth of work? I would rather delete the characters than have my work be wasted on someone that wouldn't appreciate it.

I really have to wonder why those who left EQ still feel the need to justify their decisions.

Because threads like this are really too much fun to let pass by.

Pretty much. Also, it's not so much justifying our decision to leave, but reinforcing our decision to never come back. And making sure the EQ devs understand why we left in the first place. Though I strongly doubt even a million e-mails of unstatisifed customers would make a dent in their thick skulls.

This thread just became a whole nother monster.

And Here is that monster! (http://www.gotouring.com/howdy/book1/images/180-LochNess-monster.jpg)

Forget it....just keep beating the horse.

Not everybody feels that way. Lots who are in WoW/EQ2 are looking for a place to stall before Vanguard is released.

Yes there are basic flaws with the game. I am pretty certain however, that those of us who enjoy the game and are irritated with the sanctimonious comments that come from those who have 'moved on' because:

Uber guilds to chew on something? Hehe. Those we didn't lose to new games are frustrated because it's become a question of numbers and not heart. Do you think I want to see a mass of unqualified applicants to my guild who beyond having NO common sense lack knowledge of basic game mechanics? Anyone in the process of rebuilding in the wake of attrition has read applications that leave me astounded the person got to 70. Instead of showing them the door, we're obligated out of a sense of survival to entertain their dumb asses.

I play for the company of friends, who happen to share my content goals. My transition from casual to 'uber' if I can even be called such is not responsible for the decline of the game such as it is.

If you sat on your ass for hours, that's your issue too and not specifically the fault of just the players or just the development team.

If you have moved on, please do so and stop instigating more negativity for those of us trying to make it work. It's like someone who ends a relationship but won't ever shut up about their ex. Makes you wonder kinda. Are you just bitter because you spent so much time in EQ1 and can't get it back? Why not remember the happy things you experienced, move on, and stop criticizing people who stayed to make it work for their friends. You're making the scores of people who did exit gracefully look terrible with your incessant mantra of "I told you so!!1"

So how is there any sense of accomplishment for anyone in these games, if there is little to no downtime, and everything is fast food service for ya? Some people don't like to work toward goals that take more than 30 minutes, all the more power to you, others like to accomplish things, either in or out of game that might take more planning and cooperation.

The other better analogy that I get from all the descriptions is this. I prefer McDonalds (WoW, CoH, whatever game here), to a prepared home cooked meal (EQ). Going to McDonalds, I have almost no downtime, I can get what I want accomplished quickly, I don't have to go looking for anything and whatever I ask I can pretty much get. Staying at home, I might have to take a few hours to prepare the steak, and veggies or whatever else I might decide to have that night.

That is how I view the games that are coming out, they are all fast food. I'm not saying they suck or anything, I haven't played em. Hell most fast food doesn't suck, or they would be out of business. But for some reason most the time a home cooked meal just tastes better.

Who wants to sit on their ass all the time waiting? Who wants to sit around waiting hours upon hours to kill a mob for an item it may not drop anyway?! That's called work. That's called BORING.

Well, quite a few people probably. Who wants to play a game where you're always so busy you have no time to socialise? Who wants to be given everything on a platter, so that all characters gain the same rewards at the same level for minimal effort? Who wants 'artificial' restrictions in their game that damage immersion but keep you safer from harm. Well, quite a few people too.

Aly, you complain about the camps and timesinks in EQ as if they're a new thing. They've always been there from day one. I know you've been complaining a long time, but why even play EQ in the first place? It's like you resent the game for being what it is and for some time you must have convinced yourself it was something else?


The EQ devs just don't have the balls to do what needs to be done to make EQ fun again for everyone; groupers, raiders, and soloers of all classes. Not just the masochists that enjoy the tedium of the game.

What you need to understand is that the EQ community was always built up from a very diverse set of people - you can't just divide people into groupers, raiders and soloers, most people did at least two of those things, and each of them did it in their own way. The game was just as 'tedious' for the reasons you give back then, but it was also new, good looking and popular.

As the game becomes older, people are finding it loses it's charm in the areas which made them play in the first place - this is different for everyone and in many cases there are other mmorpgs which satisfy those areas much better.

If the EQ devs made a mistake it was trying to cater for the masses instead of holding onto the original niche for which it was aimed. Ok they made a few more mistakes than that but there's only so much you can do with 7 year old code.

When my lvl 65 rogue can solo mobs for reasonable xp and advancement, I might come back. When the downtime is reduced to nearly nothing, I might come back. But like I said, the devs just don't have the balls to fix the game. They're too entrenched in the old way to learn a new way.

Go over to the Vanguard forums and you'll see alot of good discussion on things like what timesinks actually do to mmorpgs. And also how innocent tools like lfg effect the social side of games and therefore player interaction. Although there are alot of ex-eq players there that want the exact things back you'd never want to see again, there's also people just like you and the debates are pretty good.

There are lots of people enjoying EQ still and I think you're misinformed to assume they're masochistic. I'm finding it hard myself in game because my guild mainly left for WoW and I'm basically at the stage where only solid full group work and raids will progress my characters gear. Having recently started playing EQ2 and WoW myself I can still see things in EQ that make me want to keep playing all 3 for now.

EQ2 looks good, although with textures on highest my 2.4 pentium 1gig ram geforce6800 runs at 1fps in a town with 15 people nearby and the graphics don't justify that. The quest system is decent, grouping is fun and relativley painless. I'm still only lvl 15 so not sure what happens later on. Reminds me a bit of CoH the way mobs are grouped up, a little unimmersive and unecessary imo. Also don't like the locked encounters and I don't think they acheive what they're supposed to.

WoW is like a breath of fresh air if you're fed up with having to put effort into a game. One interesting phenomenon is player trains, no not trains of mobs, trains of players running around doing the exact same quests at the same time;p Fun game, wish there was more depth between levels but I'm far from done with it at only level 11.

The competition in mmorpgs can only be a good thing, those that don't offer enough to players will die out. EQ1 continues to play it's part for many people and is dealing with the an older playerbase who've completed much of it's content. It's worth pointing out that alot of newer games simply haven't begun to deal with the problems EQ1 has been tackling, but it's inevitable they will have to one day.

Panamah, I've always considered you entertaining, with having a talent for expression. But I'm finding the way you and a few others express your condescension here very annoying and disrespectful to those of us who are still a long way from sticking a fork in EQ.

We found the attitude of someone telling us that we'll be back playing EQ, because we still love it really and don't know what's good for us, rather infuriating. We probably didn't need to call EQ a venomous cancer eating at our hearts and minds, but that's just artistic license ;).

If you sat on your ass for hours, that's your issue too and not specifically the fault of just the players or just the development team.

Nope. Sitting about waiting for backflagging raids is entirely the fault of the development team. Having no progression route through PoP apart from a long tedious flagging and raiding system is entirely the fault of the development team. I play my WoW and CoH characters in exactly the same way as my EQ character and guess what ... I don't sit on my ass all the time from logging on to logging off. Why do people keep on insisting that faults in EQ are the players fault?

We found the attitude of someone telling us that we'll be back playing EQ, because we still love it really and don't know what's good for us, rather infuriating. We probably didn't need to call EQ a venomous cancer eating at our hearts and minds, but that's just artistic license ;).

Actually the very fact that you're all here replying to someone telling you that, makes me wonder if you indeed have forgotten about EQ. By your reply you make it seem like some of you have uncontrollable impulses to EQ that are triggered by someone mentioning you coming back to it.


:dh2: :deadhorse feed the horse.

Just be thankful you got out when you did Anka :behindcom

Are you still playing CoH btw?

I'll send you a private message Rad.

The other better analogy that I get from all the descriptions is this. I prefer McDonalds (WoW, CoH, whatever game here), to a prepared home cooked meal (EQ). Going to McDonalds, I have almost no downtime, I can get what I want accomplished quickly, I don't have to go looking for anything and whatever I ask I can pretty much get. Staying at home, I might have to take a few hours to prepare the steak, and veggies or whatever else I might decide to have that night.

Thats funny. Just a few days ago I made a comment on Vanguard forums (http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showpost.php?postid=181830&postcount=33) that I thought SOE games have all turned into McDonalds (Specifically EQ2, but also to a significant extent for EQ). Cheap, fast entertainment. No CR (http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=10247), huge gear gap, slow group vs single mob combat (http://thedruidsgrove.org/forums/showpost.php?p=155790&postcount=74)... That's what EQ and so many new MMORPGs have all turned into, McDonalds.

So how is there any sense of accomplishment for anyone in these games, if there is little to no downtime, and everything is fast food service for ya?

I might be reading you wrong, but I think you are implying here that downtime is fun. Downtime, like CR, is not fun but its a necessary evil. I absolutely agree that some downtime is necessary. I have to say that EQ has too much downtime especially in light of newer games, but its also wrong to say all new games are fast food just because you need to wait 30 minutes to get served in EQ. PS: Even Brad (Aradune) Mcquaid has admitted EQ has too much downtime (http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showpost.php?postid=179864&postcount=49).

Some people don't like to work toward goals that take more than 30 minutes, all the more power to you, others like to accomplish things, either in or out of game that might take more planning and cooperation.

I like long goals and quests, just like any EQ player. Testament of Vanear, Warden Symbol of Tunare, 10th Coldain Ring, 8th Coldain Shawl, Epic 1.0, Aid Grimel's quest, Qeynos badge quest, max all melee skills, max all tradeskills, max languages. You name it, I've done it. Question is, other than epic 1.5 and 2.0, what other long, lore filled quest has there been in recent expansions? And no, I don't consider that LDoN-complete-200-adventures-reward a quest.

That is how I view the games that are coming out, they are all fast food. I'm not saying they suck or anything, I haven't played em. Hell most fast food doesn't suck, or they would be out of business. But for some reason most the time a home cooked meal just tastes better.

I tend to agree that the new mmorpgs like EQ2, WoW are more like fast food chains. However if you think EQ is home cooked food... *shrugs* its borderline and you are entitled to your own opinion as I'm entitled to mine. And my opinion is that EQ is becoming more and more like fast food, and I don't like fast food. I know some people don't like hearing me diss off their favorite game. All I can say is it was my favorite game for 5 years of my life too. Sometimes I still wish it is my favorite game, but things change, EQ has changed... :boohoo:

Nope. Sitting about waiting for backflagging raids is entirely the fault of the development team.

True, but again there were plenty of people who were independent and enjoyed PoP. But that is a debate over style--Planes of Power didn't cater to the casual player as much as OoW seems to have.

I too waited for backflagging runs--90% of my flags for Elementals/Time were obtained by raiding with guilds I was not recruiting for, but who supported people attempting to get further ahead. I too was frusturated at feeling blocked progression wise.

Yes there are problems. And yes, those who have posted here saying those who cry "You'll be back!" are just as irritating as those who come back and complain at those who remain with EQ1. I'm sorry you had that experience.

So how is there any sense of accomplishment for anyone in these games, if there is little to no downtime, and everything is fast food service for ya?

How many games have you played in your life where sitting around doing nothing or doing the same thing over and over was fun? It'd be like introducing a mandatory 5 minute wait per turn in Monopoly or something. I'm not sure when the notion that sitting around doing nothing or very repetitive tasks became a "game concept" but it always felt like one that made the game seem very unlike a game.

And lets see, when I'm cooking a meal, I'm a pretty busy cook, jumping from one task to another. When I'm waiting for something else to happen, I'm cleaning up dishes. In EQ when you're waiting for something to happen you're usually doing little or nothing. Not even real life is like that.

Newer games keep you busy with little downtime. There's always a story unfolding and you work at it incrementally. Just because you can accomplish a task in 20 minutes, versus 5 hours, doesn't mean the task was more trivial, it might have been a butt-cheek clenching rollicking fun 20 minutes. You get a little adrenaline rush and feeling of accomplishment for surviving against a difficult ecounter. After awhile you have enough of these encounters and you've completed a little story (in CoH its called a Story Arc and you get a small reward). And the absolutely beauty of it is that it doesn't matter if I have don't have 5 hours to play (and I don't do that any longer) I can still get my funsies and advance my character and do all that. With EQ I may have felt a brief sense of accomplishment after spending grueling hours or days doing something, but I also felt very, very stupid because I wasn't enjoying myself during the tedious activities.

THAT is a game! It's fun, it's an experience out of the ordinary that doesn't try to imitate the worst facets of life.

I'm a person who very strongly believes that if you're going to take a journey of a thousand miles you should have comfortable shoes. Getting to the 1000th mile with broken blisters is a lot less fun than getting their with happy feet. The pain doesn't make the journey better.

Aside to the person who objected to my post: If you enjoy your game, why should you care what I think? I'm just having a little fun with the silliest thread I've seen at EQ Druids for a long, long time. Arguing over EQ is fun, haven't done it in ages. And provoking the hair-shirt brigade is premium entertainment.

::cheers for Panamah:: Butt clenching and rollicking fun aren't words you expect to read. :p

How many games have you played in your life where sitting around doing nothing or doing the same thing over and over was fun?

Diablo 2, Starcraft, Kings Quest series, Metroid, SMB, Sonic the Hedgehog, FF series, GTA, Metal Gear, Donkey Kong, Pingu games, Skiing (water or snow), team sports. I can go on and on about how many games are repetitive. For me, EQ was one of the first games I couldn't beat within a week, most games when I was younger it was better to rent because I had em all beat within 48 hours, FF2 or 3 whichever was for SNES took me a week or maybe 2 before I beat it.

The way that EQ is now, there is very little downtime, at least in groups I make, be it chain pulling, or running around a zone killing things in different places. I can't stand downtime, unless I want it. If you had downtime, then ya, maybe the game isn't for you. If you can accomplish a task in 20 minutes, how many more times are you going to do that task before it becomes old and repetitive?

ost EQ haters now, just have a beef with Sony, that's fine, I don't agree with everything they do, I haven't even bought DoN, and I was in beta for it. I'm also not going to buy into the hype that all these other games make EQ look like the manure refuse of a milk farm.

The thing that online games have brought about is that everyone is feeling entitled to everything the game has to offer, but why should it? If I only play monopoly for 20 minute stretches, but my friends play for 4 hours and they play every week, whereas I play once a month, why should I have as much property as they do? Oh, because you pay for the game, that's right, so therefor you are entitled to get everything out of it. If you only have an hour to play every 4 days, you should not be on par with those that play even every other day for 2 hours. But that is what everyone wants today, so the games being made are all cookie cutter.

As far as people not caring about this, and it being a silly thread, that is why you respond with small essays. Everyone has their fun, and some people just can't understand why others have fun with things they no longer like. I know people that like to run cross-country, which I consider grueling, why shouldn't they be sprinters, because it is faster and you can finish it quicker then move on to the next thing?

If you can accomplish a task in 20 minutes, how many more times are you going to do that task before it becomes old and repetitive?


Ah! You see, you're so stuck in the SOE mentality of doing the same task over and over again you can't see that the new games don't have you doing that. You move onto the next one.

Look at tradeskills in EQ. If you wanted to master a tradeskill you had to do the same thing over and over again for hours and hours. That task would vary slightly as you progressed... today your mixing gold and rubies, tomorrow it's platinum and rubies.... Woo woo! Now there's some fun! Drop two things into a container and hit combine for hours on end. (Yeah, I know they've improved this somewhat after 4+ years of it being like that). And this represents to me what most of my EQ life was about... camping, doing boring repetitve things... constantly repeating the same content over and over. Repetetive things, like playing a fast paced shoot 'em up is a little different, the challenge is better your old record and it gets your adrenaline going. But even so, there's generally a limit to how often I can repeat that stuff.

y only beef with SOE is that they totally dissed the casual players for so many years and made changes that would accomodate them only after I got fed up and left.

I've always felt a game should identify their target audience and cater to them. If you're someone that wants to play (slog) for hours on end and be rewarded that way, or coordinate huge groups of people on endless raids you must perform over and over, then great! There should be a game out there for you to play. But if you're someone with less time to play, there should be games out there for you to play as well, in a time frame that doesn't pinch your life. EQ sort of tried to be both, depending on how advanced your character was it just didn't work well. You'd hit a glass ceiling and unless you were ready to commit more hours to play than you really should, you'd be prevented from advancing in the game. And who wants to find out, after they've spent years developing their characters that all of a sudden they couldn't progress any longer?

And I think the real testament to how EQ failed to please either group is how so many of both groups fled to WoW. The minute WoW went to beta the big, uber guilds started leaving EQ. Why is it? Seemingly EQ should be perfect for them. They want big rewards for big sacrifices of time. Typically they've been the people to claim that they deserve more because they suffer more. So why would they move to a game where their suffering is replaced with smaller scale encounters that don't require endless hours of monotony to progress?

aybe they figured out that that wasn't really fun after all. Maybe because after years of spending that sort of time in a game they figured they could spend less time and have more fun in the time they spend online.

As far as people not caring about this, and it being a silly thread, that is why you respond with small essays.

I enjoy debating game design, like trekies have their geeky arguments over treky things. Like my Mom would say, "Ssssh! You're only encouraging her."

OMIGOD Panamah! You make me so PROUD to be an EQ killer! :flowers2:

We know you don't like EQ anymore. We know why because y'all have posted the reasons over and over and over again. We know you put your money where your mouth is and quit paying for EQ. /applaud But, why isn't that enough for you?

OMIGOD Panamah! You make me so PROUD to be an EQ killer! :flowers2:

EQ killer?!? This suggests to me that you want to kill EQ. Why? Just because you no longer find it fun?

Different people enjoy different movies, different types of music, different types of food, different types of art, AND different types of games, among other things. But, just because one person enjoys heavy metal music and another enjoys modern jazz doesn't make one right and the other wrong. It doesn't make one a moron and another more intelligent.

If I went to a message board of heavy metal fans and started criticizing the music, saying how flawed it is, how banal it is, how repetitive it is, I'd expect some negative reaction. After all, I'm criticizing their choice, their tastes in music. I'm suggesting that they are wrong for enjoying it. And that begs the question, what makes my choice in music better than their choices? What do I hope to prove or accomplish by going to their forums and putting down something that they clearly enjoy? I used to enjoy heavy metal when I was a teenager, but grew out of it. Does telling them that make me feel superior to them?

Again, I really have to wonder why some of you take such pleasure in and persist in coming to a EQ message board and putting down the game you once enjoyed, but no longer play, but that others still do enjoy.

If I only play monopoly for 20 minute stretches, but my friends play for 4 hours and they play every week, whereas I play once a month, why should I have as much property as they do? Oh, because you pay for the game, that's right, so therefor you are entitled to get everything out of it. If you only have an hour to play every 4 days, you should not be on par with those that play even every other day for 2 hours. But that is what everyone wants today, so the games being made are all cookie cutter.
That is not what either of us want. Let me spell it out for you.

Player A plays a game for 3 hours, three times a week. That's 9 hours per week. Say 36 hours per month. At the end of those 36 hours, they've gained a certain amount of XP and a certain amount of gear we'll call Y.

Player B plays the same game, in the same way, but they play 9 hours at a time, four days a week. At the end of the week, at the end of those 36 hours, they've gained a certain amount of XP and a certain amount of gear we'll call Z.

36 hours played, should result in Y being equal to Z.

Is that clear enough for ya?

Aly, stop picking on the straw men!

Player A plays a game for 3 hours, three times a week. That's 9 hours per week. Say 36 hours per month. At the end of those 36 hours, they've gained a certain amount of XP and a certain amount of gear we'll call Y.

Player B plays the same game, in the same way, but they play 9 hours at a time, four days a week. At the end of the week, at the end of those 36 hours, they've gained a certain amount of XP and a certain amount of gear we'll call Z.

36 hours played, should result in Y being equal to Z.

Is that clear enough for ya?

There would still be a gap in xp and gear. One person is playing 36 hours a week the other is only playing 36 hours a month. At one point they might be equal, but the person playing more is going to probably have more. Unless the one person only plays once a week for 36 hours over the person who plays weekly, and even then they might be close to being equal.

EQ killer?!? This suggests to me that you want to kill EQ. Why? Just because you no longer find it fun?*laugh* I have no desire to KILL EQ, nor do I believe that EQ is dead. My statement was pretty much tongue in cheek regarding the original post of this thread that stated:...you folks who left, you guilds that disbanded..........you are the ones who destroyed EQ............NOT SOE!!!!I enjoyed EQ for years and probably would still play it if my personal life hadn't changed. HOWEVER, now that I *don't* have hours to just sit around EQ waiting on others, I have found that I *CAN* fill my gaming time and have fun with a game that allows me to accomplish something even in a brief login time.

Let's be clear on one thing...
I wouldn't play another SOE game again even though I enjoyed EQ. I loved the people I played that game with and we did some amazing things in that game. BUT... I enjoy the new game I play. I find it a refreshing change from EQ and look forward to the few hours I can spend a week playing it now. But whether or not *I* like or even PLAY EQ now shouldn't matter to you if you have a mind of your own that doesn't agree with my gaming ideas.

Don't spend your time fighting windmills. If someone posts that they don't even LIKE EQ, rather than argue with them about it, call it their loss and speak to those who fall more in line with your idea of fun. I don't remember EVER seeing anyone on EQ forums posting "OH MY LORD!! You are SO right and I am SO wrong! EQ isn't horrible and dead. It's THE most FABULOUS GAME EVER! I'm going to come back because of what you posted!!". :)

Life's too short! If you're gonna beat dead horses, lighten up a bit and quit spattering blood all over me :/

I just don't get you guys.

If I want to become the world's finest violinist, aside from needing a little natural talent, I need to practice for hours every day for years.

If I want to pick up a violin and have fun with it and learn a few songs or just be able to enjoy my time while playing it, that will come with very little practice required, just some experimentation here and there.

This is what EQ offers. Everyone should NOT be able to have the best gear, spells, stats, titles, bragging rights, etc. The top-tier instances of those things should be reserved for the people who put the serious time into mastering the game and improving their skills.

I am a casual player but I somehow have very good stats for my level. I play probably three-four hours maybe twice a week. It's been a long road from 1 to 58, but I've made steady progress and haven't found any kind of "glass ceiling." Sure I'm still not level 70, but as I've gone up in levels I've simply moved on to new zones and done new quests, gotten new spells, and it's been fun the whole time.

Nobody is forcing you to master tradeskills, or even grind out levels. Why does progress simply have to be defined by how much xp or aaxp you gained today? If you hate tradeskilling then don't do it. Sure you won't get certain rewards that can be obtained through tradeskilling, but that's what happens in ANY situation in real life or a game, if you don't put in the hard work you don't get the reward.

I myself have only one tradeskill even as high as 200. But I still enjoy the game, and I still have pretty good stats for my level.

If you feel EQ is a job, it is because of your mindset, your perspective. Don't look at things as tasks you have to perform in order to get to where you should be. Rather look at each thing as a possibility and then choose which goals you want to pursue. Not everyone should be trying to be the uberest kl33t3st roxor of soxorz. But, if that is what you want then you need to realize that it is hard work, just like it is hard work to become the best at anything.

If you find EQ boring, then that is how you feel, and I can't tell you you're wrong. Perhaps you aren't challenging yourself anymore and have lost the thrill of playing and learning new skills (not You have become better at Alcohol Tolerance (20), but skills as in learning how to use spells in the correct manner, devising strategies for raids or dungeon crawls, etc.). Perhaps you simply got bored with playing the same game for 5 years. I don't see anything odd or flawed about that. I personally don't find it boring despite having played it for a while (I also played a MUD for 10 years...which was an awfully flawed game in many ways but always challenged me mostly via PvP and difficult puzzles to solve in the high-end zones), but if you do then just play a new game! That's why they make thousands of new games a year. But there's no reason why you should talk down to other people who still enjoy the game you once poured thousands of hours into yourself.

Also, always keep in mind that peoples' opinions and the things they support are extremely fickle, temporary, and often comprised of illogical loyalty to whatever happens to be your current choice of how you spend your time. Remember when there was the Sega Genesis vs. Super Nintendo debate? I always stood up for Genesis because I owned one, and while it was a good system it is clear in retrospect that SNES was far superior...but I never would have admitted it then! Same thing for PC's vs Mac's. People will always argue for whatever they happen to own or use and very rarely will they have significant logical arguments for their choices. (I understand there are exceptions to this rule)

Point being, enjoy what you enjoy and let others do the same. If you think there is a specific flaw in the game then feel free to point it out and hope it gets corrected, but all this silly "my dad can beat up your dad" bickering just brings people down and spreads a lot of negativity that really serves no purpose.

I play EQ. If I had unlimited time I would also play EQ2 and WoW. I'm sure they are all wonderful games that each have some flaws and some extremely entertaining features. I don't see why we feel compelled to rank them against each other. It's like we're those obnoxious parents who parade the accomplishments of their kids around as if they were their own. Note that we are all game players, not the designers of these games and as such it makes very little sense to argue which is better. Just play your game and enjoy it, and if you don't anymore then move on!

There would still be a gap in xp and gear. One person is playing 36 hours a week the other is only playing 36 hours a month. At one point they might be equal, but the person playing more is going to probably have more. Unless the one person only plays once a week for 36 hours over the person who plays weekly, and even then they might be close to being equal. Guess I wasn't clear enough.

It shouldn't matter how often someone plays. All that should matter is how long they play. Let's expand it out.

If you play a total of 500 hours in two years, someone else that plays 500 hours in three years, or 500 hours in four years, should be at the same point you were at when you hit 500 hours. If it takes 500 hours to hit level 50, it should be 500 hours for everyone, regardless if it takes them a couple months, a year, or even two years to put in 500 hours.

There would still be a gap in xp and gear. One person is playing 36 hours a week the other is only playing 36 hours a month. At one point they might be equal, but the person playing more is going to probably have more. Unless the one person only plays once a week for 36 hours over the person who plays weekly, and even then they might be close to being equal.


You still seem to be missing the point. You are comparing the players at the same actual point in time, instead of the amount of time they played.

No one seriously argues that there should be no gap in XP or gear between the two players at a particular time. The point is that there should be no gap in XP or gear based on equivalent time played.

In other words, the person playing 36 hours a month should have about the same XP and gear after a month (i.e., after 36 hours of playing) as the person playing 36 hours a week did after a week (i.e., after 36 hours of playing). Of course, at the end of a month, the person playing 36 hours a week will have 4x the amount of playing time, with substantially more XP and gear. No one is even arguing that they should have the same gear or XP.

That argument is a straw man argument put forth by those who want to claim that the "casual" players wants to be just as good as the "uber" player for less time played. It's not a real argument, hence my comment to Aly about knocking down straw men.

If I want to become the world's finest violinist, aside from needing a little natural talent, I need to practice for hours every day for years.

Speaking as a former musician I have to say this is a pretty weak analogy with games but a good analogy with EQ! Playing music was my job. It was at times, quite a grind. Playing a game is nothing whatsoever like being a professional musician. In fact, I'd say the problem with EQ is that it was too much like being a musician, but not in a good way. It mimics all the bad stuff about being a musician, practicing hard passages over and over and over again. Monotonous, repetitive... it was work!

Work like that doesn't belong in games, it belongs in work. If I want the rewards of being a hard working musician, I'll be a hard working musician. I won't be simulating hard work in something that is supposed to be a diversion and entertainment.

My point exactly Panamah...

If you want to be a professional violinist, it requires that painful monotonous repetitive practice.

If you want to play violin for fun as something you do casually in your free time, you can just mess around with it and not worry about grinding out long practice sessions.

The exact same is true for everquest. No, it shouldn't be work, but it isn't. You're just comparing it to work in that it requires time, attention, effort, and strategic thought. It is diversion and entertainment. However, if you want to be a top-level player, you will need to hone your skills and invest time. For some, that IS diversion and entertainment. It has been like this in every game with any kind of depth ever. Quake, Starcraft, Super Smash Bros. Melee, Tekken, etc. You needed to put serious time into improving your skills before you could compete at the highest levels.

I'm saying if you think of it as a job with tasks you MUST accomplish then it will suck. If you look at it as a place where you can explore and relax, then it will be fun, but you might not become EQJesus.

The game can be fun, relaxed, and a diversion. It just can't be that at the same time as you are looking at it as a competition which you must master.

-Noir

Hmm, are we getting into a new discussion type? Uber Ex-EQ Player vs Casual Ex-EQ Player... hehe...

Regardless of which treadmill-game you choose to play (they are all treadmills), there comes a point in time when you realize that running along on that one particular machine isnt fun anymore, and if/when that happens, you need to move on. And for those who still like running on that treadmill, great! But you gotta realize, once you jump off and take a look at what everyone is doing, you see that they are all just running in place and getting nowhere. There are no real goals in an MMOG, it's the journey that must be entertaining. Once you realize that, you realize that each game currently out there only has so many ways of providing that journey, and as such they are all inherently short-lived, especially if you are forced to play them in gigantic chunks of time, the way EQ makes you.

LOL! Funny, Tiane.

Lots of people can put forward lots of strange arguments about ubers and casuals but everyone, surely everyone, who plays everquest would like a group based progression path in EQ1 that takes you entirely parallel to the raid path. It's a glaring omission from the game that would enhance opportunities for all casual and semi-raiding players. Raid events would then be enjoyable prestige and power events for those who like them, instead of a requirement for all semi-serious players.

It wouldn't have stopped people quitting for new generation games but Sony would have kept a lot more respect from their old players if they'd filled that gaping hole in EQ. They really lost touch with what their players needed.

Where's that nice icon of a horse? We haven't seen it for a page or so now.

Again, I really have to wonder why some of you take such pleasure in and persist in coming to a EQ message board and putting down the game you once enjoyed, but no longer play, but that others still do enjoy.
I think a part of us still has hope that SOE will address the issues that everyone is complaining about. Also, its hard to simply let go of something you put so much time and heart into, the friends you've made along the way that you never got contact info from.

Reading and participating in EQ related stuff helps some. I'm sure some of us (myself included) don't have active accounts and therefore can't post on the EQlive forums. Not that it does any good anyway.

Btw, they finally locked the 1.5/2.0 thread in the test forum, so I guess that's it for the effects. :curse:

Lots of people can put forward lots of strange arguments about ubers and casuals but everyone, surely everyone, who plays everquest would like a group based progression path in EQ1 that takes you entirely parallel to the raid path. It's a glaring omission from the game that would enhance opportunities for all casual and semi-raiding players. Raid events would then be enjoyable prestige and power events for those who like them, instead of a requirement for all semi-serious players.

I disagree to a point. I don't think it should be exactly the same. There is alot of effort in getting 54 people to be not retarded in unison, but the current gap is way to big. I think velious had it about the best balance wise between uber and non-uber, maybe Luclin was a bit better but both were at an acceptable level I think.

Lots of people can put forward lots of strange arguments about ubers and casuals but everyone, surely everyone, who plays everquest would like a group based progression path in EQ1 that takes you entirely parallel to the raid path.

No, the uber-mentality is such that they wouldn't like that, or at least it was back when I used to argue over this all the time.

There was a elitism that folks felt special that they have something others don't and that their style of play entitles them to have special privileges. I think there's an element of competiveness that they desire, being the first or having the best gear. If just anyone can do that, it'd make it not so special. It'd be like Lexus coming out with a cheap model car anyone could own, I bet the Lexus owners of the expensive cars would hate that.