View Full Forums : Time for serious LDON talk.


Saffun
08-01-2003, 01:05 PM
Ok what will be your favorite LDON 6 man group.
Has to include a druid(Duh!)
level 65's
Level 55 and below.

What do you think will be the most balanced LDON 6 man group(doesnt have to include druids).
Level 65's
Level 55 and below.


Also is it just me or do i you think they will start the dungeons off extremely difficult and then tone them down a bit.
Or do you disagree, and think it will be the opposite.

Its hard to tell as thy have swung both ways in teh past 14 months.

After studying the facts about this expansion ther is one thing im almost sure of.
I do not think there will be any instant gratification for anyone in this expansion.

I think every positive acheivment wether it be loot or spells will be quested or raided.
This is not to say that things won't be dropping the first week. I just think it will be less then every previous expansion to date. No more bait and switch?

What do you think?

Tilien Venator
08-01-2003, 01:10 PM
Going to do 65 only~

W/dr00d

sk
clr
enc
bst
rog
dru

w/out dr00d

sk
clr
enc
bst
rog
wiz

You can sub the SK for a paladin. Just gives different bonus's. The SK allows for a puller and Tank in one slot. Plus insane aggro.

random user
08-01-2003, 01:31 PM
For 65 I'd do:

Warrior
Enchanter
Cleric (ok call me old school a traditionalist)
Druid
Bard
Paladin

Why?

This group can tackle the broadest range.

I chose a warrior because if the end of the dungeon has a mob that needs defensive or evasive, no other class can do it.

I chose an enchanter for the haste and clarity and crowd control and slow. If charming is viable, the enchanter adds a tremendous amount of dps as well.

I chose a cleric because they are still the master of healing, and only they can do trickery to possibly keep the MT alive before slow lands. Also they can rez in case someone dies.

I chose a druid for backup healing, for snaring a charmed pet, for snare in general, and for egress (assuming that works).

I chose a bard because they can help crowd control, they have mana song, they can play resists, they have riz and warsong. If the final mob has a strong proc or AE, bard resists may mean the difference between winning and losing.

I chose a paladin because they can group heal in case of an AE, they can be the rampage tank if the final mob has rampage, they can rez the cleric if the cleric dies.

This group makeup is a bit low on the dps (if no charm), but I think it is one which will tend to be more sucessfull, especially if there is no time limit on the dungeon.

This isn't the same as xp fighting -- you need to think about AE's, possible adds midfight, rampage, etc... basically anything that can happen in a raid, could happen here too. This combination can handle a large number of raid-type situations.

As to 55 and under, it's been so long ago that I have been that level, and so many changes have occurred since then, that I don't feel qualified to say.

<blockquote style="padding-left:0.5em; margin-left:0; margin-right:0; margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0; border-left:solid 2"><hr>Also is it just me or do i you think they will start the dungeons off extremely difficult and then tone them down a bit.[/quote]

I am hoping (I think it was implied in one of the interviews) that you will be able to select how hard you want the mission to be, kind of like the caller quest in fungus.

I think that initially most things will be too hard, but that some times will be too easy. Those that are too easy will be changed quickly. Those that are harder may take some time.

The PoJ exe trial is a good example. Most people never attempted exe when the mobs still dictated (granted that was a bug). They definately got easier as time went on. Similarly, most if not all of the PoJ trials have been made easier in some way since launch.

<blockquote style="padding-left:0.5em; margin-left:0; margin-right:0; margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0; border-left:solid 2"><hr>I do not think there will be any instant gratification for anyone in this expansion.[/quote]

I think there will be some drops, but those are probably not going to be great upgrades. Some may be droppable and thus sellable on the secondary market. The PoJ trials again are a good example. Pauldrons of the Witness and the Silver Hammer Earring (I think that's the one) from exe, up to fairly decent stuff like Ornate Sceptre and Gavel of Justice from harder ones.

I think that you'll collect points (perhaps they will code it as an alternate alternate experience pool) which you can turn in for items. But that's a total guess.

All total guesses from me. Not too much info is available at this time.

- Xylem, E'ci

Panamah
08-01-2003, 01:42 PM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> No more bait and switch?[/quote]

Dream on! I've decided it's a slimey sales tactic. They <em>want</em> you to think it might just be a buggy loot table, but in reality I'm convinced it's intentional. They want the people who buy the expansion firstest :P to get rewarded the mostest.

Other than that, I hope you're right! I want adventure! I want danger! I want dancing boys!

I remember that PoV and the Trials started off stupidly hard. The tanks didn't have enough hit points and AA's at the beginning of the expansion to deal with the damage. We damage dealers weren't high enough level to deal the larger amounts of damage we are now later in PoP. Also, the spells weren't available. Clerics didn't have the good AA's to manage mana and aggro in Trials. So, it started really hard, but got a lot easier.

My favorite group would consist of my favorite people! Truly, I don't care what they play. I know they're good players.

I just wonder if multi-boxing will be possible in this expansion.

gamilenka
08-01-2003, 01:43 PM
I'm with warrior for tanking.

Cleric
Warrior
Enchanter
Monk/Beastlord/Rogue/Druid/whatever
Monk/Beastlord/Rogue/Druid/whatever
Monk/Beastlord/Rogue/Druid/whatever

I think they will make it so other combos are more viable though.

BricSummerthorne
08-01-2003, 02:23 PM
I'm going with the theory that dungeon = adds. I want mez and offtanking. so:

Paladin (MT, Symbol, group heals for rushes)

Druid (me :D , PoTC, regen, heals )

Rogue (Good DPS, last resort offtank)

Beastlord (DPS, pet offtank, mana regen, hp regen, buffs)

Enchanter (mez, haste, slows, C2)

Mage (DPS, pet offtank, mana regen, crazy focii, weapons and haste mask for BL pet)

All in the 59-60 range.

Batou062671
08-04-2003, 06:16 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>They want the people who buy the expansion firstest :P to get rewarded the mostest.[/quote]
I don't think it's quite so neferious of an intent. When an expansion first comes out there are zero items from it in the game. No one knows what the rewards are or what drops where so they increase the drop rates at the start so that the word will get out and make zones popular. It has the unfortunate side effect of shafting the late comers to an expansion though.

Baptismo Delacroix
08-04-2003, 06:31 AM
Easy for me.

Whatever group I can get in.

ShadowfrostXev
08-04-2003, 06:32 AM
With druid:

Shadowknight
Cleric
Bard
Beastlord
Rogue
Druid

Without druid:

Shadowknight
Cleric
Bard
Beastlord
Ranger
Mage

Deneldor2
08-04-2003, 07:17 AM
Can't say on a tank because of what Xylem said, if theres a boss mob that requires defensive you're gonna need a warrior. In fact without knowing more its impossible to even guess really but....

Pally/Warrior for reason above

Druid because we wanna be in it!

Cleric (also old fashioned)

Rogue (DPS + I'm assuming traps and locks)

Magician (DPS and offtanking pet for emergencies)

For CC- bard/chanter without more info its hard to choose one.

You will notice I didnt really have a specific slot for slow. I'm hoping that that will be the one thing addressed in LDoN properly. Slow broke EQ and they need to find a way around it.

Vermilion Starfires
08-04-2003, 07:19 AM
I'll take my normal exp crew anywhere anytime.

65 Paladin
65 Paladin
65 Ranger
65 Shaman
65 Druid
65 Rogue

Damn near unkillable, and we cut through mobs like there's no tomorrow.

nanyea starrym
08-04-2003, 07:21 AM
Shadowknight (maintank)
Paladin (offtank backup heals and cures)
Druid (secondary heals, dps)
Cleric (primary heals, res)
Rogue (21 damage prim = dps + scouting/pulling)
Enchanter (me!)


Easier dungeons i might drop the pally or druid and add a monk/wizard

Basically I think this setup can conquer any dungeon presented to us, and theres enough healing/CC there that suprises won't be too bad.

Firemynd
08-04-2003, 07:22 AM
Too soon to tell, unless they've released some information I haven't seen yet.

Need Sony to answer some questions:

- <strong>If someone dies in an ID (Instanced Dungeon), will it be possible for them to obtain a rez from someone who didn't enter the same ID?</strong>

As long as corpses will eventually pop to a GY outside of the ID, clerics will be highly desirable as always, but folks might at least be willing to adventure even when they can't bring a rezzer.

- <strong>Does evac work in an ID? If so, will an evac end the adventure or does the ID respawn or does the ID remain clear up to the point where the group stopped?</strong>

If evacing causes the adventure to restart from the beginning, evac becomes a non-option once you're more than halfway through the dungeon. In such case, even if the ability is allowed, it won't contribute to grouping desirability for the two evac capable classes. Redundant rezzer (cleric+pally or cleric+necro or even cleric+cleric or pally+pally) would be preferred over evacer.

- <strong>Are designers going to implement snare/root immunity for mobs in higher level IDs?</strong>

It would be nice to see snaring back on the table of factors which lend desirability to classes with that ability. Snare and root, after all, were intended as part of the overall balance for those classes, so giving mobs outright immunity detracts from balance. Surely there must be more clever ways to make encounters challenging.... /em glares at designers

- <strong>Will there be charmable mobs, and will any of them be tagged as animals? As undead? Any low enough to DC?</strong>

Like it or not, charming is another ability intended as part of the balance for certain classes, and disallowing those lines of spells (and DC at higher level) will detract from their grouping desirability. Necros, druids, and enchanters can all provide DPS, but some are only considered adequate for that role if they can have access to a pet. Druids are most affected by this distinction because unlike necros and chanters, we cannot provide extra DPS with a summoned pet; of course we all still love Booboo to death! (as is frequently his fate)

Like Panamah, I'll certainly go into LDoN dungeons with friends and guildies regardless of class. But if the answers to too many of the above questions are negative, some of us might not even buy the expansion.

~Firemynd

Panamah
08-04-2003, 07:47 AM
I'd imagine that corpses will have to pop outside the ID. Otherwise people would be screwed.

Baptismo Delacroix
08-04-2003, 08:43 AM
The corpse popping issue will be interesting. Let us see what happens to people who camped overnight in or died in chardok B just before the patch that removes it happens.

TeriMoon
08-04-2003, 09:01 AM
I prefer

ME (druid)
Paladin
BL
Ranger
Monk
Bard

Wyndi Soulbringer
08-04-2003, 09:10 AM
My favorite group would be one that I’ve been involved with off and on over the past 9 months.

2 Warriors
2 (yes 2) Druids
1 Wizard
1 Shaman

Weve hardly ever had a Rouge, Cleric, Enchanter never a beastlord or Mage. We do ok.

Wyndi Da Treehugger of 63 Seasons in the Forest

Batou062671
08-04-2003, 11:31 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>If evacing causes the adventure to restart from the beginning, evac becomes a non-option once you're more than halfway through the dungeon. [/quote]
I don't think it will because they said the mobs would only spawn in a dungeon once and after you had killed them all you were done and would have to start a new instance.

Grolmn
08-04-2003, 12:11 PM
"As long as corpses will eventually pop to a GY outside of the ID, clerics will be highly desirable as always, but folks might at least be willing to adventure even when they can't bring a rezzer."

I only wish this didn't mean game over. Thanks for playing, come next time when you have one. With a resser in the group you can res the fallen and keep going. Without, you are done.

Pacal Sidhe
08-04-2003, 12:24 PM
I think druids are going to be one of the top rated classes for LDON because of the one thing everyone faults them for today: versatility. IMO, if you have only 6 slots to handle a random dungeon...you had better duplicate as much function as possible and cover as many abilities as possible. I'd want as many classes with inate healing and mana regen as possible. So my list is:

1 - Druid (heal, nuke, snare, root, evac)
2 - Chanter (slow, haste, CC, buffs, clarity)
3 - Cleric (heals, buffs, rez)
4 - Necro (dps, pet, summon corpse, snare, twitch/heal)
5 - bard (light melee, CC, buffs, picklock, mana regen)
6 - Pally (tank, dps, heals, buffs, rez)

My only option would be to replace the Pally with an SK. They both are excellent tank classes. This covers every important ability in the game. This gives you lots off tactical options, everyone can pinch hit for another class in emergency. You get 5 classes that can heal in some form or fashion. The only shortcoming is lack of 200+ picklock. If that becomes a requirement, exchange the bard for a rogue.

L1ndara
08-04-2003, 01:08 PM
Druid (baggage)
Bard (duh)
Necro (mindwrack!)
SK (tank, pull, zefeer's bite)
SK (tank, pull, zefeer's bite)
SK (tank, pull, zefeer's bite)

+80 mana/tick possibly from the necro, SKs and bard. =D SKs can all alternate agro, bard can slow and cc and pull and haste and everything else.

Heh, seriously, tons of different groups are going to work as long as you have a good slower and puller, which is nothing new. Lots of pet damage output will help like an enchanter or mage, but better still is the SK pet which are going to rock the house! :)

Zyphyr
08-04-2003, 01:26 PM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I don't think it's quite so neferious of an intent. When an expansion first comes out there are zero items from it in the game. No one knows what the rewards are or what drops where so they increase the drop rates at the start so that the word will get out and make zones popular.[/quote]

The problem is that in each expansion when they make that big change to the loot tables they make a statement that the tables were "buggy" (or something to that effect).

That means that one of two things must be true :
A)The people who made the loot tables are completely incompetant, and incapable of learning from the prior expansions.
Or
B)It was actually deliberate, and they are lying to us about the change. If they are lying to us, it isn't that much of a stretch to assume they are doing it for some 'nefarious' purpose.

Batou062671
08-04-2003, 02:18 PM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The problem is that in each expansion when they make that big change to the loot tables they make a statement that the tables were "buggy" (or something to that effect).[/quote]
Can you point me to a post where they claim that the loot tables for the entire expansion are buggy and thus they are dropping the drop rates expansion wide? I can't recall having read a single such patch message or official statement from them in all the years I've been playing the game.

I've seen them claim that a specific mob was dropping the wrong loot, I've seen them rethink a single encounters loot table, but I've never seen them announce that the drop rates were going down to normal for the entire expansion as we were discussing.

Oldoaktree
08-04-2003, 03:45 PM
...they don't claim it was buggy. They say that they are "adjusting" the drop rates...

Happens every time.

JigsawDenniz
08-04-2003, 06:45 PM
Including a druid, in a dungeon, assuming you can buy buffs from others before you can go:

Shadowknight (tank, FD)
Bard (too many reasons to count)
Necromancer (dps, rez, mana, group buffs)
Magician (dps, mana)
Beastlord (dps, mana)
Druid (we would need a healer)

If FD isn't required and/or we are fighting undead, I'd rather have a Paladin than a Shadowknight.

edontulate toothpuler
09-15-2003, 04:31 AM
w/o druid

Enchanter -haste, slow, mez, mana, MR
Cleric - buffs, heals, REZ!
Bard - A must = zero med time and fast movement
through a timed dungeon, pull, slow/snare
Pally / SK - hold aggro the best
Ranger - DPS
BL or other pet class - off tank if needed, kitty crack, and additional slower

Stormfront
09-15-2003, 06:30 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I just wonder if multi-boxing will be possible in this expansion. [/quote]

Yes. Already won two successful dungeons with a friend playing his monk and botting a chanter.

Best Group so far:
65 Druid
65 Chanter
65 Pally
65 SK
65 Wizzy
65 BST

(and God help the mobs if both knights are weilding SEWS like ours were, mwahahha)

Trevize
09-15-2003, 06:56 AM
Hehe..

SK (tank sorta.. train puller and give me mana!)
Ench
Ench
Druid
wiz
wiz

Clear a room of traps, chests, and any wounded fd mob.

Do any type of adventure

For a kill 50+ adventure, Pull 60 mobs. AE.. Done. Proceed to next adventure.
For a rescue adventure, pull train through main halls, AE and lead the npc to zone.
For collect adventure, pull 60 mobs, AE and loot mobs for 10 min =P
For kill some named mob adventure, pull 60 mobs AE, pop named go run and kill him.


I can't WAIT for hard to give more points for winning, then I'll make more groups for hard with:

SK/Paladin/Warrior for tank
SK/Paladin/Warrior/Bard/Ranger for backup tank (prefer bard)
Bard/monk/sk puller
Druid (duh)
ClericSlower/mezzer (necro, chanter or shm)

Geddine
09-15-2003, 06:27 PM
I don't like this type of subject at all.

This is the type of subject that encourages the attitudes of many players today of only finding the optimum group member. I find it hard enough to find a group as it is with encourage from others to exclude me (no matter what my class should be)


I'd say out of the 7,529,536 combinations of groups avaliable I'd say over 75% of them will work so why argue about which is number 1.

Northerner
09-15-2003, 08:49 PM
Druid/Paladin/Enchanter/Rogue/Wizard/Wizard would be my 'ideal' setup but certainly not what I consider the most fun (playing the Rogue). Paladin/Warrior/Druid/Rogue/Shaman/Beastlord (or Ranger etc) is one combonation that I find to be a good bit of fun though. Plenty of dps and offtanking is a lot more fun than CC in the Normal level adventures anyways. Ah heck, I've not found many bad combonations so far to be honest. Any group with a bit of attention and some decent class-knowledge can succeed cheerfully.

My personal pet peeve so far is the pick-up group that takes 30+ minutes to organize for 45 minutes of a mission.

Panamah
09-15-2003, 09:12 PM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>For a kill 50+ adventure, Pull 60 mobs. AE.. Done. Proceed to next adventure.
For a rescue adventure, pull train through main halls, AE and lead the npc to zone.
For collect adventure, pull 60 mobs, AE and loot mobs for 10 min =P
For kill some named mob adventure, pull 60 mobs AE, pop named go run and kill him.
[/quote]

And you all were wondering how Trevize got so many points in a day?

I was wondering how long it'd take people to start doing this.

Autumn10
09-16-2003, 07:13 AM
Well if you're AE'ing your way through LDoN then I don't see room to complain that you're burning through content fast and have reached a possible point cap. Kind of defeats the purpose of the whole thing anyway, doesn't it? *waits for the impending nerf*

Panamah
09-16-2003, 07:36 AM
I can't blame people for trying to get the most out of their time.

I think my favorite group so far was:

Ranger, Beastlord, Druid, Rogue, Cleric, Pally

Yes, no enchanter, no shammy. Beastlord slowed, ranger root parked and root pulled. It was awesome!

Last night we had a fun oppsy in a different group. We got a big pull with a named in it. Enchanter was having problems locking things down (about 4 I think). We didn't realize we had a named, so enchanter was trying to mez it and I think it was resisting or immune. Somewhere in that mess, enchanter died. So we finished the one we were killing and switched to named one. Things going along ok, then it gates! Then we start getting summoned! (Gah! Why do monks insist on still pulling things? Just charge the darned dungoen.)

Fortunately, I think it was mostly just me, with escape up, the monk and the sk that got summoned. We all FD'd or escaped. Somewhere in this mess, the cleric died. No healer, except the beastlord. I ran back to the group, the beastlord kind of healing me from some beating I took. The SK keeping himself alive and the monk almost dead, hoping mend pops in time. It did, we killed the named and 3 adds, the cleric ran back, ressed the enchanter and we were fine. :)

Baptismo Delacroix
09-16-2003, 07:39 AM
Some strategies I use...

If we don't have a slower, we get some form of DS and do it that way. Mobs aren't too swift and kill themselves fast on a good damage shield. On the same token, we don't pick an assassinate mission since no slow and no defensive usually means no win.

If we do have a slower, we just kill as fast as possible and then invis/ivu/lull to the boss.

Sometimes we have to pour it on with everyone adding damage however they can. Be that a cleric hammer, pet, extra ds. Everything helps.

We avoid collection quests.

Haven't done but one rescue quest which we failed just as we got to the mob. It was our first time in LDON, however. We didn't even know you could win in overtime for a reduced reward.

Success in the adventures does seem to be highly dependent on if you have a good mana regeneration buff or not. Perhaps with flowing thought 15, the buff isn't necessary.

Another downside is that sitting and camping in any other zone is even more boring and unpalatable.

Pacal Sidhe
09-16-2003, 12:16 PM
After many hours of playing live LDoN content here is my vote for most EFFECTIVE group around lvl 52:

- cleric (heals, stuns, pacify, undead, summoned)
- Pally (puller, tank, stuns, pacify, undead)
- beast (pet, slows, melee, mana regen)
- necro (mana regen, dps, pet, CC, undead)
- druid (heals, regen, DD, roots, ports)
- anything (I prefer a mage or chanter)

Pacify > all at my level.