Seems the Wizzies are up in arms that Mages have a vendor bought nuke that out damages some of their harder to find dropped nukes. While I dislike some of the druid references (typical of the Graffe's wizzies), I found the thread interesting in terms of class balance and perceptions.

<a href="http://pub140.ezboard.com/fgraffeswizardcompilationfrm10.showMessage?topicID =823.topic" target="top">Wizzies on Mage Nuke</a>

I do have a question tho. Forgive my ignorance, but what is a bolt spell? I know it's a nuke, but why is it considered a less desirable type nuke? What are its limitations?

Bolts are line of sight nukes. Meaning, if someone or something (ie: tree) gets in the way, it'll hit them instead of the mob.

Boss mobs on PvP servers can be interesting if you stray into a spray of Ranger arrows while disc'd, and Mage nukes on crits. Stay out of the way!! Carebear servers don't have to worry about this though.

Wyte

Bolts are effective 99% of the time in exp groups. I rarely ever have one miss, and if I do, it's just because I try something I pretty much know in advance I shouldn't.

I can't speak for raiding situations though.

The funny thing is, I was reading Graffes, and the wizards were talking about how worthless they were in relation to rogues. Then I went to the Safehouse, and the rogues were convinced they were worthless next to wizards. Grass is always greener.

Mages have it pretty good now in the high end game. Personally, I don't begrudge them it...they've been perceived as a crappy class for years.

I can see the wizards point of view about the bolt though...on casual glance it seems like a lot of the easier to obtain 60+ wizard spells are fairly crappy. Guess Verant was still pissed at them for getting Manaburn heh.

Well I always thought it was a little funny that the current mage dmg output seems to be tested versus nuke vs nuke only, without pet damage consideration. I figure someone from Graffe's, Monkly or Safehouse will eventually post another "Mage pet dmg parse" comparing mage pet + nuke dmg to a wizard's dmg output. Last time that chart was brought up, it only took VI about a month or two to give wizzies new nukes.

First I love the mages I know...but they are hands down more powerful than wizards.

Bolts are sometimes limited in raid situations but less so in PoP I believe. Easier to get LoS in an outdoor zone without all that wall hiding.

Quote:

Guess Verant was still pissed at them for getting Manaburn heh.


Host of elements is pretty strong from what I understand.

Gotta agree with the basic premise some of the posters were making. Good wizard nukes are much harder to get, and esp with pop that bolt spell does get used a lot. Wizzies I saw were not calling for a nerf, or to get the bolt -- just to do something about the drop rates on the wizzie spells, or to improve the PoP ones.

I got no problems with that. Having gone through teh pain of doing a raid on THO really just to try to get wizzie spells I have to agree that the current system is a little unfair to em.

I think that they need to do something for wizzies, and improving spell drop rates would be nice.

To my mind, wizards and warriors still need some upgrades.

I'd say dru are more in need of consideration that Wiz. Wiz balance should be pretty straightforward comparison of damage output.

Seriously,

I think druids are being outnuked by necros now. Counting only up to level 62 spells, Necros get Neurotoxin for 1260 which is better than anything we have to that level. Clerics have Condemnation at 62 for 1100. I hardly feel like the 3rd best nuking class anymore. It's more like we're tied for 3rd with two other classes. Not a complaint, honestly, because we have other skills I value, but I thought I'd mention it in context of this thread.

And while I can understand why wizards might be a little put off, I have yet to see Mages soloing in HoH or quadding in other planes for massive experience. I think wizard's quadding skill which is apparently still useful in PoP might make up for the difference in dps that one guy was mentioning. The wizards I know are hardly complaining.

-Danel Greymist
Tunare

Quote by Danel:
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Counting only up to level 62 spells, Necros get Neurotoxin for 1260 which is better than anything we have to that level.
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Druids got better dam/mana ratio by level 54.


Quote by Danel:
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And while I can understand why wizards might be a little put off, I have yet to see Mages soloing in HoH or quadding in other planes for massive experience. I think wizard's quadding skill which is apparently still useful in PoP might make up for the difference in dps that one guy was mentioning.
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Druids can also quad, so shouldnt need direct damage spells better then a cleric then?

Danel also said:
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Not a complaint, honestly, because we have other skills I value, but I thought I'd mention it in context of this thread.
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I was addressing two seperate issues raised in this thread.
People were discussing the size of the nukes, not the efficiency. I pointed out that just as wizards might not be first in the size of their biggest nuke, so druids are not really third anymore. And the 'other skill' I value, such as charm and quad, are why I don't really care.

If you're looking to start trouble, look somewhere else please. Nothing to see here.

-Danel

any necro that is using Nukes as a way to do damage, is dumb, and anyone who's worried about the power of necro nukes, is dumb

thx drive thru ~

<strong>Counting only up to level 62 spells, Necros get Neurotoxin for 1260 which is better than anything we have to that level.
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Druids got better dam/mana ratio by level 54.</strong>

Druids don't have the 2nd or 3rd best pet in the game adding a ton of damage, and while manaregen has gone up across the board making the necro advantage less significant, they still have one so their spells SHOULD cost more. Neurotoxin also seems to get resisted less on XP stuff than fire/cold too that I've seen, dunno about boss mobs.

On top of that, and probably more importantly, necros have lots of agro control, from DA to subtlety to FD. I find I'm sitting on a pile of mana at the end of more fights anymore where I'm nuking because I can't spend it or I'll get agro. If I'm the only druid at a raid and have to do Ro's then the agro generated from that really limits me, and I've ended a couple fights near FM because of it.

Wizards are still the clear lead for nuking damage (if not for damage overall) with magicians following somewhere behind. But it's really debatable if druids are even 3rd anymore and the distance between 3rd 4rth and 5th are MUCH smaller with things like being able to FD being more imporatant than a tiny difference in ratio or cast time.

Overall I sorta wish they'd made TR have a bit more agro and given druids Jolt/Cinder Jolt or some sort of agro reducer.

"Overall I sorta wish they'd made TR have a bit more agro and given druids Jolt/Cinder Jolt or some sort of agro reducer."


Yes pls. I'd easily sacrifice TR with more aggro for an aggro reducer, and jolt fits because us and Rangers share alot of abilities.

This really is something that makes alot of sense. I'm all for it, somebody make a petition and i'll sign it :)