It was the early 1980's. Our first child was a boy.

The evils of teaching young children to fit sexual stereotypes was a topic of great discussion. Experts claimed that children were being programmed to fit certain life roles by the toys bought for them by their parents. Boys got footballs, building blocks and toy trucks to teach them about physical activity and classic male roles. Girls got dolls and toy stoves to train them to be nurturing homemakers.

As modern-thinking (and impressionable) new parents, we took our societal responsibilities seriously. We were NOT going to make the mistakes of our parents. Men and women were equal, and can equally fill any role in society!! We had our own bundle of joy to liberate from sexual stereotypes.

Our son was about 2.5 years old, and we bought him a Cabbage Patch doll for Christmas. Heck, the doll was even black. Might as well throw some tolerance life lessons in while we were at it.

I'll never forget what happened. My son eagerly tore off the Christmas wrapping paper, opened up the box, took one look at the doll and threw it over his shoulder. He never looked at it again. We gave the doll away a few months later. Our toddler taught us more life lessons about stereotypes than the 'experts'.

LOL! Isn't that just normal behavior for a kid? I was kind of the same way with Dolls, I really wasn't interested in them. I tried to be because my friends were, but I like running around the neighborhood with my friends a lot better than playing with dolls.

For 6 years straight, every year for Christmas I asked for a slot car set. Every year I was told I couldn't have it because it was a "boy toy". I now own a slot car set which, fully assembled, fills my living room floor to capacity. Now if only I could find someone to play with it with me.

I didn't like dolls either. I was much happier climbing trees and chasing kids around the neighborhood. I liked playing war, but I wasn't allowed to have any toy guns because those were also "boy toys", so I always ended up with a stick. Of course, it always degenerated into a "I hit you!" "You missed!" match, which, seemingly inevitably, ended up in a brawl on the ground.

And my mother wondered how a "girl" could possibly destroy so many shoes and pants and shirts.

I've had the opportunity to watch the children of my friends who, like Thicket, went out of their way not to inflict stereotypes on their kids. Despite this, boys seemed to show a preference for cars, trucks, and heavy equipment while girls seemed to gravitate towards dolls, clothes, and house stuff. I wouldn't extrapolate from this that that's always the case but I'm sure it's uncommon for it to be otherwise.

I think it's a mistake to equate equality in the eyes of the law with sexual equivalence in the eyes of nature. There are fundamental physiological differences between men and women and while socialization can influnce these differences it can't eliminate them (nor should it attempt to, IMO).

You also cannot eliminate, on your own, the massive influence of society as a whole.

When your child goes to school...the boys play with boy toys and the girls play with girl toys. When your child watches TV, the boy toy commercials have boys...the girl toy commercials have girls.

When he goes to the store...and sees the toys...boys are marketed for boys...girls are marketed for girls.

You also cannot eliminate, on your own, the massive influence of society as a whole.
Perhaps. I don't think you can eliminate the influence of nature either.

No, you can't. I think most boys will have a natural disposition toward pointy objects and fire =D

No, you can't. I think most boys will have a natural disposition toward pointy objects and fire =D
And explosions, don't forget explosions!

Yes...never forget things that go boom!

I seem to remember there was a doctor who treated a child that was injured at birth maybe and recommened that the boy had the operation to make him a girl as part of the treatment. This happened and the child was raised as a girl. The doctor wrote many papers on how well this unique "experiment" worked and it was clear proof that sexual behavior was learned socially.

Oops. They went back to look at the child when she was a teenager and she had awful gender confusion. As far as she knew she had always been a girl but still felt as if she was the wrong gender. I know it's an individual case but I do think people have some behaviors hard wired into the brain, and those behaviors often come through more strongly in one sex or the other.

When my daughter was at the crawling stage, she would pull clothes she selected out of the laundry basket and try to put them on. When she got to be about five or so, she would change her clothes three or four times a day.

She's now twelve, and it's a major struggle just to get her to bathe and wear clean clothes. *sigh*

She's now twelve, and it's a major struggle just to get her to bathe and wear clean clothes. *sigh*

Don't worry, when she gets a boyfriend she'll clean up. Then you can have a whole new set of worries :).

I seem to remember there was a doctor who treated a child that was injured at birth maybe and recommened that the boy had the operation to make him a girl as part of the treatment. This happened and the child was raised as a girl. The doctor wrote many papers on how well this unique "experiment" worked and it was clear proof that sexual behavior was learned socially.

Oops. They went back to look at the child when she was a teenager and she had awful gender confusion. As far as she knew she had always been a girl but still felt as if she was the wrong gender. I know it's an individual case but I do think people have some behaviors hard wired into the brain, and those behaviors often come through more strongly in one sex or the other.


I seem to remember there was a Law and Order SVU about this same exact thing. Kinda messed up, since I have to get my newborn boy chopped this week.

My older brother had a babydoll for a while until my dad threw it away. My younger brother had a doll too...GI Joe. I know that there have been a lot of studies done and many have decided that both boys and girls enjoy playing with dolls, but they play with them in different ways. And despite the belief that all girls play dolls to dress them up, most little girls prefer dolls without any clothes on them when they first start playing. I don't know if the reason they start dressing them is because their parents and other adults teach them that it's expected or if they do it because it's the natural progression of play.

Anyway... more girls today play soccer and take lessons in the martial arts simply because it's *OK* to be rough and tumble. Thank goodness the days of little girls being forced into lace and taffeta for "every day wear" are past.

its all about LEGO's and wooden blocks, cant go wrong there!

I know that there have been a lot of studies done and many have decided that both boys and girls enjoy playing with dolls, but they play with them in different ways
Yeah, I had fun playing with my sisters dolls. I loved the sound that the burning plastic made when it dripped. Voot. Voot. Voot.

When I was 2 or 3 and was given a gift, I used to unwrap it and then play with the wrapping paper, ignoring the gift itself. :P

Our son was about 2.5 years old, and we bought him a Cabbage Patch doll for Christmas. Heck, the doll was even black. Might as well throw some tolerance life lessons in while we were at it.

I'll never forget what happened. My son eagerly tore off the Christmas wrapping paper, opened up the box, took one look at the doll and threw it over his shoulder. He never looked at it again. We gave the doll away a few months later. Our toddler taught us more life lessons about stereotypes than the 'experts'.

OMG! Your kid is a racist! *grins evilly*

I have three younger sisters. They had the usual girl toys, but they certainly played with boy toys as well. Our gameroom in Austin was literally divided into 5 sections so we each had room for our "lego towns." It didn't negatively impact them.

Of course, my older brother played with girl toys... and well... let's just say playing dress up was a precursor to his adult life. ;)

I was a "box" kid. While I had pre-created toys from the toy store, my favorite toys were plain'ol cardboard boxes. Especially the big ones that were large enough for you to crawl inside. I liked the plain cardboard ones because you could draw "controls" or other pictures on them. I remember I made some sort of weird space shuttle out of a microwave, Nintendo, and some other misc. box.

I was definitely a "tom boy" though. I played with sticks and knives - killing evil shrubberies and beating up dastardly trees. I recall one of my guy friends getting a pair of throwing knives (you know the type - the $2 knives) and we were playing with them by throwing them at a fence. That's when I learned the lesson that if A: The knives are not super sharp, and B: You stink at throwing knives and the knife hits on the hilt or edge instead of the point, then C: The knife will most likely rebound back towards you, so you should D: Run!

I'm also 98% sure that if I didn't grow up as a "tom," there's no way I'd be in the computer field now.

Our toddler taught us more life lessons about stereotypes than the 'experts'.

YES!

One of the things that you learn when you raise a child, is that 99% of what you are teaching them is what NOT to do. What they like, or want, the positive they ALREADY want or know they like.

Unlike what all my expert brainwashers told me.

You can not teach children to want stuff, that they do not already want. Well I guess you could, but it would take more energy than I am willing to give.

That is to say, that little girls like(want to emulate) Snow White because they already do, not BECAUSE Disney told them to. Disney just discovered the want, and provides for it.

If advertisers, manufacturers, producers are guilty of anything it is exploiting what is already there, it is not them inducing the want.

You also cannot eliminate, on your own, the massive influence of society as a whole.

When your child goes to school...the boys play with boy toys and the girls play with girl toys. When your child watches TV, the boy toy commercials have boys...the girl toy commercials have girls.

When he goes to the store...and sees the toys...boys are marketed for boys...girls are marketed for girls.

I use to believe that too.

The shelf space and the advertising is enourmously expensive.

You can not discount the fact that every item on every shelf of every national store, has been test marketed to tears. The toys boys and girls like are not just accidental or somehow implanted by toy manufacturers.

Girls innately gravitate to role play toys and dolls.

Boys innately gravitate to building toys and war toys.

Oh yeah, I loved turning large cardboard boxes into submarines. There was some submarine show on TV back then. All I remember was they said, "Dive! Dive!" often. Then another favorite toy was Hot Wheels and Matchbox cars. I think I liked them because my big brother did.