Taken from the SoE Forums:


A solid three-group force can easily be all decked out in OoW Tier 1, 1.5s, RS, Qvic and MPG Group Trials drops. This force would be much closer in gear to that of an eight-group raiding force than most 'non raiders'. And this force can take many of the full-on raid targets of just a few expansions ago in addition to the smaller-force targets in more recent expansions


What do people think of this statement?

Say you had a 18 person, well Balanced Force. This Force Farmed DoD Progression, DoN Missions, Made DoN Tradeskilled Grandmaster Armor, completed their 1.5s and finished off with all the MPG Single Group Trials and Things such as The RS Dogs.

They should, best I figure be between 175 hp/mana and 200+ in every slot. Assume for sake of arguement they average around 400-500 AA.

How far in progression do you think they could advance? Surely events from PoP upto Rallos Zek the Warlord would probly be fairly trival.

As far as Gates of Discord goes, I am thinking Primals, maybe Ikkinz 1.

Omens of War: Named in RCoD, NC, WoS, RS

DoN: Emoush, Perservance, Goblin Dojo, maybe Tirranum.

DoD: All Single Group Content, Maybe Lair of the Haru event.

But the real question is - would any of that upgrade such a group?

-Fenier

Qvic armor, Augmentations, spells, I could see upgrades for a group like that. The biggest thing holding back this group would be the number of people. 18 is great for some of the content, but, the real upgrades from MPG raid trials would take more people.

think he said MPG groupm, not raid.

Ikkinz 2 is actually easier than Ikkinz 1. When Ikkinz raids were "current" raid content for us (before OoW came out), our first or second Ikkinz 2 win was with less than 30 people.

I would add Ikkinz 2 to GoD, and Guardian of the Sands and Rampaging Monolith to DoN. Circle of Drakes might even be possible, although it would be a stretch with only 3 groups instead of 4.

Qvic requires larger scale raids to Ikkinz4 and Uqua. I do not see 18 people beating those. So qvic armor would probably not be available. However, if they were qvic flagged, they can farm the Mshas/Zoo/Cyno and add some loots in that 200 ish range.

think he said MPG groupm, not raid.
I know, I was refering to "the next step" sort of thing.

I have nothing relevant to add, but your question did make me think... small guilds no matter how well geared are pretty much screwed

I honestly can't think any progression that accomodates 18 peeps. if you're already 175 to 200 hps, no gear I can think of that 18 peeps could get would be much of an upgrade.

Qvic requires larger scale raids to Ikkinz4 and Uqua. I do not see 18 people beating those. So qvic armor would probably not be available. However, if they were qvic flagged, they can farm the Mshas/Zoo/Cyno and add some loots in that 200 ish range.

Yeah, I'd still have a hard time seeing most poeple 3 group Uqua. Not saying it's not possible, but not likely at that level of progression.

I would add:

GOD:
Ikknz 2 and maybe 3 or they could at least farm parts of 3.
Mindrider (if they are crazy enough to do it for the junk rewards)

DoN:
Volkara's Bite might be doable by 18, if they were on their toes, but I might be overextending their abilities. (if thats enough for the minimum raid)

I wouldn't call anyone who could outfit themselves will 1.5's, DoN cultural armor, MPG group trials, and that many aa's, casual.

I think these 18 people could get to the level quoted by Fenier raiding 3 days a week using the other 4 days for tradeskilling/farming and xp. I do not believe this would be Easy but it is doable.
It would have to be a tight group with a very selective class composition and more than likely would be the "core" wanted or used in any progression guild.
This group would hit the Elemental, GoD, DoN, DoD progression wall.
I believe that at this point they would be geared up to where the content they could defeat would not give any further upgrades.

I would like to know "where" these 18 people would go after they hit that wall... would the guild explode, would they be absorbed into another guild to increase to a size required to complete RZTW and carry on to defeat the elemental gods and enter time, would they recruit and if they recruit how do they teach the new recruits "their" way without causing Drama and other BS the introduction of newbs into their close knit group might cause.

It's a neat idea but content for the 3 group guild isn't there IMO.

I wouldn't call anyone who could outfit themselves will 1.5's, DoN cultural armor, MPG group trials, and that many aa's, casual.

Casual as in they don't spend the majoirty of their time raiding, but rather grouping in content which upgrades them with perhaps the ocassional raid target which they could do with 18 people.

I think they could get pretty far, but bringing in new people would totally suck and you still hit that wall of never progressing to the Dragons in DoN, past Ikkinz in GoD and Into the Elementals in PoP.

-Fenier

Circle of Drakes and Rampaging Monolith would be a start if they can pull it off (which admittedly is a big "if"). Those result in 230-280 hp gear and have a max of 24 people. I seem to remember a 24 person instanced event in the Nest as well, but I think it required having beaten Yar`lir to request it.

Necklace of Grimspirit Beads
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE
Slot: NECK
AC: 45
DEX: +18 STA: +17 CHA: +22 WIS: +23 INT: +23 HP: +285 MANA: +290
SV DISEASE: +20 SV COLD: +15 SV MAGIC: +20 SV POISON: +15
Spell Shield: +3% Avoidance: +15 DoT Shielding: +3% Mana Regeneration: +3
Required level of 70.
Focus: Alacrity of the Ikaav
WT: 0.7 Size: SMALL
Class: CLR DRU SHM NEC WIZ MAG ENC
Race: ALL
Slot 1, Type 8

DoN progression in general is a good thing for them to work on. It may not result in great loot, but the bonuses are well worth it (including +3% hp/mana, for example).

GoD progression would probably stop at Inku'Ta, actually

OoW would stop at epic 1.5, some 2.0 fights, but would include all open field named.

I'll build and alternate profile and see where a Druid might end up in this scenario.

For reference, the original quote comes from this thread:
http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Veterans&message.id=139383

One arguement is, "SOE has attempted to build these single-group and small-raid progression paths, and nobody seems to be using them".

I wouldn't call anyone who could outfit themselves will 1.5's, DoN cultural armor, MPG group trials, and that many aa's, casual.

There's a guild on Luclin that raids 2 days a week and just broke into Tacvi (2ish months ago I think). Lots of them have 1.5s and decent numbers of AAs, but they aren't really hardcore =p

I wrote this a year ago.

Since that time, Myself, Sabreyn and Alaene (amoungest others) have developed a fairly casual guild raid force of apppox 18-24 people.

While we only have been formed for 3 months, we've geared up extensivly in Theater of Blood, outfited the entire raid force with 1.5s, completed a few 2.0 fights for people who have obtained Orbs via Other means, as well as completed most of the content on this list.

Tirranun our best so far is at 80% on the second form (reason for previous wipe was our sole mezzer died)

Haru, the Creep Beast to 50% (Making it past the first of the spawn waves is rough, 6k DD damage in 10 seconds is fairly difficult to deal with when your being thrown around like a rag doll).

We've put a sizable dent in the Hatred Trial, and expect to complete it fairly soon. Based on performance I wouldn't put Specialization or Corruption to far out of the way once we start attempts on those.

Last night we killed Hulcror for the first time also. We've killed Zun in RCoD, but not battlemaster (wasn't up last time we had the force).

A Dedicated group of 18-24 people who focus their efforts can now accomplish quite a bit. I'm overall very pleased with how well we've done, as both Alaene and Sabreyn can vouch for.

-Fenier

Fenier i am pretty much at the level you describe .. 200 in most slots.
Pretty much it was MANY (and i mean MANY) pickup MPG trials, DOD missions (hard too) which brought me there. DOD mission guaranteed reward was the key. 10 hours invested for each reward on average (including fails and aborted missions due to group losing pieces).

Right now i am on hold .. didnt play since a few days already. I simply cant see a reason to login .. doing all again at 75 is a bit too much, and there is NO new gameplay to test and experiment with. I am trying different MMORPG .. mybe Dorda is dying =/

My family type guild is pretty close to this now. We don't have 3 solid groups but normally field 2 plus at any given time. None of us are really casual based on play time but we are not a raid guild at all. We geared up using DoN gear then some of the DoN cultural. We have beat Emoush once but not again yet. We are doing 1.5's atm as we can. Some of the final mobs are a bit much for us but we are lucky to have a couple friends that are in raid guilds to lend a hand once in a while. Since the release of TSS we have been farming for all the gear from there. Most of our guild has the legs hands and wrist so far. Even managed to pick up a few power sources from Vald pit area. Before TSS we did alot of the arcstone and relic quests. We are also going back and catching alot of the DoDH spell arcs that we could not handle before. A real good small guild raid target is the Jailor guy in DL. Nice neck reward for the quest plus some really decent drops for non raiders.

Shyra in DoD should be easy enough for that kind of crew, and opens up the farming of Bazu Stones for the GM armor.

Shyra in DoD should be easy enough for that kind of crew, and opens up the farming of Bazu Stones for the GM armor.

For the crew that Timbrewuf describes? No way in hell. Even 6 groups of people who can *just* beat Emoush wouldn't be able to take Shyra. If you were responding to someone else just ignore me. :)

Fenier's guild might want to look into the two 24-person raids in TSS (that I know of):

http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=23435
http://eqbeastiary.allakhazam.com/search.shtml?id=24017

They'll be difficult but might be doable, especially if your warriors have been collecting AC augments. :) A bard will make a big difference on Kellak.

Druid usable loot from these two raids:

Veil of the Snow Spider
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE
Slot: FACE
AC: 30
STR: +10 DEX: +25 STA: +10 CHA: +30 WIS: +30 INT: +30 AGI: +25 HP: +325 MANA: +385
SV DISEASE: +30 SV MAGIC: +30 SV POISON: +30
Spell Shield: +5% DoT Shielding: +5% Regeneration: +3
Required level of 75.
Focus: Sothgar's Retribution (55% fire focus up to level 75)
WT: 0.9 Size: SMALL
Class: RNG SHD DRU SHM NEC WIZ MAG ENC BST
Race: ALL
Slot 1, Type 8

Frozen Heart of the Snow Spider Queen
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE AUGMENTATION
Augmentation type: 8
Slot: HEAD FACE EAR NECK SHOULDERS ARMS BACK WRIST RANGE HANDS PRIMARY SECONDARY FINGER CHEST LEGS FEET WAIST
HP: +105 MANA: +115 ENDUR: +115
Stun Resist: +4%
Required level of 75.
WT: 0.0 Size: TINY
Class: ALL
Race: ALL

Clouded Ring of Restoration
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE
Slot: FINGER
AC: 35
STR: +15 DEX: +25 STA: +15 CHA: +10 WIS: +30 AGI: +25 HP: +345 MANA: +365
SV FIRE: +15 SV DISEASE: +15 SV COLD: +15 SV MAGIC: +30 SV POISON: +15
Spell Shield: +3% Stun Resist: +3% DoT Shielding: +3%
Required level of 75.
Focus: Mysaphar's Superior Preservation (18% beneficial mana preservation up to level 75)
WT: 0.6 Size: SMALL
Class: CLR PAL RNG DRU SHM BST
Race: ALL
Slot 1, Type 8

Electrified Bauble of Rigor
MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE AUGMENTATION
Augmentation type: 8
Slot: HEAD FACE EAR NECK SHOULDERS ARMS BACK WRIST RANGE HANDS PRIMARY SECONDARY FINGER CHEST LEGS FEET WAIST
HP: +110 MANA: +110 ENDUR: +110
Accuracy: +15
Required level of 75.
WT: 0.0 Size: TINY
Class: ALL
Race: ALL

mm those are interesting, who assigns the Spider Queen task?

No way could that group take Kellak. Circle of Drakes sure since that can be done with 7 people if DPS is high. All that takes is half the raid in the tunnel, half on the bridge. Kellak though I just dont see happening.

Hmm, you may be right...I looked at the guild roster on eqplayers, and I don't see any active warriors. That could be a problem.

Still, if you're looking at completing the Hatred trial with 24 people, I bet you'd have a shot at both Kellak and Kangur. (I don't know who assigns the tasks; someone has to complete a bunch of single group tasks to be able to request them though.)

Rikkukin in DoN would be a good target as well.

Volkara, Battlemaster (RCoD) and Guardian of the Sands dead to 24~

Alter Construct (Ikkinz 4) currently at 30%. We had nearly no melee dps on, but alot of support classes (normally it's the reverse) Am postive can beat Ikkinz 4 with 4 groups.

Kess isn't much harder than rikk. I killed him with 20 (1/2 high end chars 1/2 gimps alts) or so @ 70. Was actually easier for us than rikk, than again I didn't expect groups to die due to confused blind clerics.

We've put a sizable dent in the Hatred Trial, and expect to complete it fairly soon. Based on performance I wouldn't put Specialization or Corruption to far out of the way once we start attempts on those.

Corruption is pretty hard with a small raid. The enchanter mobs lock down a large % of a small raid.

I've attempted (and failed) endurance with a small raid - the snare makes it hard for the tanks to get to mobs, healers get chewed up easy unless you have an overabunace of add tanks.

Specializtion - never tried this with a small raid, but I hear this is the 2nd easiest with the small raid, bearing the AE doesn't start to eat people.

I hear foresite is possible with a small raid, but, I don't know if the emote rate starts out slower with a small raid. Generally, as people die the emote rate for people still alive speeds up. If it starts out at the same rate for 30 people as it does for 54, it'ld be hard.

I have a feeling the emote rate on Foresight is time based per person rather than divided up among the people in the raid. I've been the sole survivor 15 minutes into the trial (at which point you automatically fail) and I was able to keep up with emotes, though obviously I was able to do little else by that point. Had I been given 54 people's worth of emotes there's no way I would have been able to do that.

If you can pull off Specialization, Adaptation is a similar fight. That would be my recommendation for the next trial to work on.

For some reason Kessdona was always significantly tougher for us than Rikkukin. If you can handle Rikkukin then Kessdona is worth a try though.

Relic dragons are remarkably similar, and might be worth a look as well sometime after that (although they only drop one item each, since they're primarily meant for flagging).

This casual progression thread interested me because it's what my guild is doing. We are a family guild that raids, with no min raid requirements, three nights per week. We are geared from PoP, DoN, DoD and recently some ToB gear.

Immortalis Kruoris on Nameless, took down Rikki tonight. (W-L 1-5)

We had 23 people in the raid, average level 73 or 74, probably 10 1.5's, one 2.0. We had a three cleric heal rotation, with three shaman and two Druids keeping the raid up. A warrior tanked, we had a zerker, 2 sks, a bard, a beastlord, a ranger and two rogues for melee DPS. Four wizards, a necro and an enchanter for casters.

We lost one level 72 wizard during the fight, in my group: he and I were out of position and got hit with one too many AE's. (We lost track of Rikki's location facing away from him to prevent blindness, and ended up way out of position) The necro Waked the Dead on him and put him back in the fight. /grins. I got back in position and life was good.

I am not Uber. I am level 75 with 300 AA's. My raid buffed mana pool and HP are both just above 9k. /flex. I used SI and Moonshadow to keep my group up, and used Chlorotrope once to patch the MT when a cleric called for it.

Success is driven by tactics. The Uber guilds have more healers, more melee, and more casters. We casual raiders have learned to do more with less, but it can be done.

Success is driven by tactics. The Uber guilds have more healers, more melee, and more casters. We casual raiders have learned to do more with less, but it can be done.

Yes, the ubers all are able to use zerg forces because they have more characters in the raid.

Well, some do.
Obviously the best ones combine both numbers and tactics. :P

Regardless, congrats on taking down Rikkukin! There should be quite a bit of content available to you with comparable difficulty.

Anytime a guild encounters a road block new tactics are developed. And anyone who beat prenerf preformer will tell you that effective zerging takes finesse~

If you don't wipe, you are not progressing your game.

Out of curiosity, what exactly was nerfed on Performer?

Relic dragons are remarkably similar, and might be worth a look as well sometime after that (although they only drop one item each, since they're primarily meant for flagging).
Actually, as I recall from PoR Beta, the relic dragons are actually meant to be done with 24-36. Zerging them causes the fight to be more difficult (more adds/harder hits/etc)

Add Tirranun the Ancient Protector to what can be killed with 4 semi-casual groups.

Ikkinz 4 (http://destinatus.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=715), 5 groups - 4 of which logged in just before the final fight. Could likely do it with only 4, but we recently had like 18 apps ;/

I'll have to ask Usul - Necromancer who was on Sol Ro. He managed to do Ikkinz4 with....20? I can't remember.

I'll have to ask Usul - Necromancer who was on Sol Ro. He managed to do Ikkinz4 with....20? I can't remember.
Link? Google turns up nothing. Either under Usul, or his SoE Forum name Frankthetank.

EDIT: rest of post deleted, not worth it.

nice personal attack; it was totally needed to make this thread complete.

It's not worth it.

Clearning Ikkinz 4 in just under 1 hour and 15 mins (I love that we don't idle) with so few people (and with non-Anguish+ gear) is very impressesive. I am sure there *are* people who can do Ikkinz 4 with 20 on our server, too. But, it is an accomplishment to be proud of Fenier, regardless of what is said otherwise. I know I am~

Though, I would be intrested to see what other guilds have beaten it with? A recent guild on our server had a bit of trouble with over 40 on the raid and took about 3 hours their last clear of it, around three weeks ago.

--Nae

Here is a link to Usul's Profile at eqnecro.net (http://www.eqnecro.net/board/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=63)

Anything else I can help you find?

Here is a link to Usul's Profile at eqnecro.net (http://www.eqnecro.net/board/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=63)

Anything else I can help you find?

A search of those forums does not return any results when searching for Ikkinz 4 posts made by Usal in which he would have claimed force used - unless I totally missed it.

I wasn't able to find a match on the Sony forums either, so Arkaron's claim is still unverified.

What I was able to find was this thread here. (http://www.eqnecro.net/board/viewtopic.php?t=771&highlight=ikkinz) In which Usal's guild killed the Guardian of Righteousness in Ikkinz 1 with 18 back in July of 2005, in which his raid used nearly all Vet AAs available.

So in the event she was attempting (which I suspect she was) to trivalize our recent win, she'd still fail due to the fact we defeated Ikkinz 1 with 15, no vet AA, and a SK tank without a Shaman, losing only the 2 bots in the process - on our first attempt.

Now, could you do Ikkinz 4 with 20? I am quite sure you could, but I do not presently believe it is likely even given current gear available from ToB and TSS (IE: gear which can be obtained by a semi-casual player) unless you happen to perform the AC event perfectly and have an exceptional amount of dps.

-Fenier

Sung to the tune of Budweiser's "Real Men of Genius" commercials: (italics = chorus)

We salute you, Elitist Everquest raider
Mister Elitist-Everquest-Raider!

Only you could defeat Ikkinz 4, with 5 groups
Ikkinz 4, with 5 groups baby!

Sure the content is years old, and the level cap was raised 10 levels since Ikkinz was current content...
The level cap was surely raised

But that doesn't stop you, and your guild, from gloating on public message boards about your accomplishments!
gloating on public message boards

And who cares if anyone else has done anything like this before, they had better gear and aa's!
who cares, they practically cheated!

So crack open a cold one, you Elitist Everquest Raider, because if anyones guild deserves recognition, it is most certainly yours
Mister Elitist-Everquest-Raider!

Regardless of who did what, myself being in a family guild (go go Immortalis Kruoris!!) that raids, and with numbers very similiar to Feniers, it's nice to see what can be done.

So in the event she was attempting (which I suspect she was) to trivalize our recent win, she'd still fail due to the fact we defeated Ikkinz 1 with 15, no vet AA, and a SK tank without a Shaman, losing only the 2 bots in the process - on our first attempt.


Fenier
Take a deep breath.
Let it out
Take a deep breath.
Let it out.
It doesn't matter what someone else says!
You achieved a goal and a win within the parametres of this casual progression path.
You have given others an achievable target, have proven that it can be done.
If you wish to confirm what Usul did or did not do write him a pm, if it really matters and find out the facts rather than hearsay.
Now the drama and defensiveness should be dropped, or taken to rants and flames away from this topic which stands on it's own merits giving others achievable goals for progression using skill rather than zerg.


Netura
Twisting Feniers Tail might be entertaining but why here?
The post about Ikky 4 deserves to be here as it shows what can be done on a casual progression basis.

I think this train has fully derailed and might never get back on track.

Netura:
Twisting Feniers Tail might be entertaining but why here?
The post about Ikky 4 deserves to be here as it shows what can be done on a casual progression basis.
Because it was the perfect opportunity for that post; which I found far more enjoyable to write and post, than the original post, which was essentially the same as your own.

Also, I am proud and impressed by casual people progressing - I used to be in the same crowd way back when. However, when people start to get 'holier than thou' and arrogant about their accomplishments, it diminishes their accomplishment. (Sort of like how I despise it when uber guilds attribute their opponents victory over content to nothing more than leet beta inf0z/Dev help).

However, when people start to get 'holier than thou' and arrogant about their accomplishments, it diminishes their accomplishment.

'Holier than thou'? Not so much.

Pointing out the fact that Ikkinz 4 with 20, as in just over 3 groups, is highly unlikely for people with-in a casual progression specturm, is hardly elitest. Asking for proof to the claim, is hardly out of line, esp considering there are guilds on my server which reguarly wipe on the Altar Construct with 45 people.

Lowreth, I've sent you a PM filling you in on parts of this discussion which should not be here, but will explain my stance.

Golthine, if you can kill Rikkukin with 23, you should be able to do Ikkinz 4 with 24~ should you be so inclined.

Because it was the perfect opportunity for that post; ......... However, when people start to get 'holier than thou' and arrogant about their accomplishments, it diminishes their accomplishment. (Sort of like how I despise it when uber guilds attribute their opponents victory over content to nothing more than leet beta inf0z/Dev help).

Some background on me Netura I have been on CT for 6 years now and prolly have known Fenier for about 5 years.
If you check my posts I have butted heads with Fenier a couple of times but I still have a respect for him.
The guild he now belongs to IMO is far from Elitist or uber as they have issued a standing invitation to the guild I am in to join them in their activities.
I would like you to also take a deep breath and show some respect to a poster on the boards you are asked to moderate.
Your bashing has done little but make me wonder what contributions you have made to the boards and if it's really worth reading.

Moderators deserve the right to express their thoughts just as any one else but just as I have with this post you have stepped off topic and continued. I would prefer if the topic would once again step away from specific individuals and opinions back to the topic which is Casual Progression Paths.

I would like you to also take a deep breath and show some respect to a poster on the boards you are asked to moderate.
Your bashing has done little but make me wonder what contributions you have made to the boards and if it's really worth reading.
If you want to question my abilities/contributions as a Mod on these forums, feel free to PM an Administrator.

Twisting Feniers Tail might be entertaining but why here?

An Iksar Druid? That explains a lot! :elfbiggri

Druid = Wolf

Druid = Wolf

That's what those guards in Halas though for the longest time, but we were finally able to get through their thick Barbarian skulls that "Druid != Wolf != /bash". Rather "Druid = Puppy = /pet" :texla:

I said I couldn't remember.

I asked and he said 24, with some bots. It was some time ago, but they would have roughly equivilant gear.

It wasn't meant as a personal attack. I know of casual progression guilds also and was only looking at a memory for comparason.

I have even thanked you for answering questions I've had on other threads. If I wanted to attack you, there are a vast array of ways for me to do so, and I have not done any of them in some time. I am happy your guild is progressing as well as it has.

I think everyone should take a step back and just drop it before people start going over text with a microscope trying to find ways to outdo each other. It's not worth arguing over.

I like this thread, and since I don't have the time or dedication to raid with an Uber raid guild, 4 nights a week/4 hours at a time, it's great to know that there are challenging things to do, things that give bigger raids a hard time, that my guild can take on.

Destinatus is doing what IK is doing, and I admire them for it.

We once beat Rikkukin in DoN with less than 20 People no boxed chars it took forever but was very exiting and everyone was on his toes at the end. We were not Anguish geard at this time and trying to get trough Inktuta at this time.

So we were a bit over that 200 hp/mana but not much :)


But to get trough the progression were had much larger raids

On an aside, the guild I mentioned a few posts back, which I believe would classify as pretty casual as well, has owned Uqua and did it with little trouble. (I watch progression paths of guilds of similar size and progression.) Which is a pretty sexy accomplishment~ Even with the level increase. I'd like to see if we could do this with our guild, tho I am not certain we are able. (I know very little about Uqua other than it stinks :p)

Do you think this is something a smaller guild with a couple less groups than 45 people could accomplish? Same ToB gear basically?

-Nae

At 75 w/ a decent bit of aa's, then yes.

It was more the part of splitting the raid in two parts which worries me. I am sure the rest of it a 24/30 man raid could do. Do you *have* to split the raid into two parts? I don't know the details of Uqua.

It was more the part of splitting the raid in two parts which worries me. I am sure the rest of it a 24/30 man raid could do. Do you *have* to split the raid into two parts? I don't know the details of Uqua.

No, but if you plan on doing it with 24-30 people, then yes. There is no reason each twin should take more then 2 groups of people.

-Fenier

Are there any small TSS doable raids for this kinda of force? ;) I've seen that there are static raids mobs, but alot of them only drop one loot, is this the case with most of them?

Any mob which only drops one item needs to be done quickly, or it's simply not worth the Reward verus Time spent. If it's taking you 90 minutes to move to and kill the mob, your better off dropping something which yeilds 2 or 3 items.

That said, The Kellik And Snow Spider Queen raids are maxed at 24, and I know Fiddleback and probly Mistwalker can be done with low forces (Sunderock). If you have people workign the War Portal Quest, you could knock out several waves of that, and you can trigger it to boot.

I believe Pyrelord and the Treant in Direwind are designed for smaller forces as well, but I am not fimilar with either encounter.

-Fenier

IK took out Kessdona on little more than a week ago with a raid force of 29, incuding 5 bots. First part sucked, I was at 10-20 percent mana for most of the fight. Healers note: If you need mana to keep a Cleric and yourself up, and you tell your SK's that they aren't getting anymore heals, your SK's remember how to use lifetaps. I love self healing tanks. :)

Second part sucked, I died when I pulled the mob. I admit I wasn't supposed to pull the mob, but I got too close trying to track a golem and got eaten by the Dragon. Stupid of me. My only excuse is it was late and I was tired. The raid prevailed without me.

Since then, we've also taken Mistress Shyra twice now, once with a raid force of 21. Pulling her single from her two guards is a pain; we got lucky and got her that way once. The second time we pulled one of the guards single, the one that does not silence the raid, and killed him off, then pulled Shyra single from the remaining guard and dealt her a can of whup-ass.

My GL read my post and pointed out that the guard doesn't silence, Shyra does... We pulled the guard that AE FD's, since the other one has a nasty AE.

I could have sworn that the silence resists stopped when I got out of LOS of the guard, but looks like I was mistaken. Isn't the first time I was wrong, certainly won't be the last. :)

Last night, IK dropped Kess again and tried T'sara, but she wasn't feeling the love, so we rezzed and buffed and went for a second attempt at Yar' Lir. Our Raid Leader likes to feed us to dragons. :cry:

IK defeated Yar'lir last night with a raid force of 30, 5 bots total. We are ToB/TSS geared, I think average level of the raid was 73. We had a few deaths, but made it through.

Where dos the War portal quest start?