Debateable whether I'd use Aura of Life instead of Oaken Vigor. Aura of Life is 30 minutes, Oaken Vigor is base 21. Oaken Vigor is 29 minutes for me, I don't know if Aura of Life is affected by extended durations. Oaken Vigor is less mana though, so if the duration is the same on both, it's a bit more cost effective to stick with Oaken Vigor as both regen 60 HP/tick. It remains to be seen whether the regen will be changed and Aura of Life allowed to stack with our regen.


Aura of Life Stacks with Blessing of Oak - Confirmed via looking at Lucy Stacking.

Pretty sure its been that way 7 years now.
I wouldn't count on it.
this has nothing at all to do with PoR spells which went live yesterday, I suggest an Unkempt Thread.
-Fenier

Well so much have been changed to our detriment i feel something could be changed to fix our problems too .. or not?? I dont count on anything... stopped LOONG time ago.

It has to do with the thread because you said a root trap would not work because of the change in aggro rules that root is causing.
So we cannot get a trap spell because root is bugged (actually lame coded) and will never be changed. NICE, good thinking. Instead AHAH a craptastic lame regen/lame cure.

Sorry but i think that whoever rewiewed the spell design during beta testing did a really crap job and/or thought about his own needs and gameplay, not that of druids as a community. And you can see that clearly by the discussion in this thread which makes it evident that a LARGE portion of all druids is NOT happy with the spells that have been finalized.

Democratically, I think we should setup a POLL on the 3 spells to see how many vote FOR or AGAINST each the POR spells in the current incarnation. That would make some sense. Easy question, easy answer. Else this discussion is pointless and endless.

poll #1 : happy about current barkspur?
poll #2 : happy about current moonshadow?
poll #3 : happy about current aura?
poll #4 : prefer trap or aura?
poll #5 : prefer group hot or heal?

This could give an initial picture of the acceptance of the druid community of the new spells. You will never get that information of of this discussion, as only the most vocal/aggressive/dialectic will prevail, but that's not democratic at all and you know that.

Only thing that can be said here without getting bashed is:
"OOOOOOHHHH NICE JOB OHHHHH NICE ... OHHHH YOU ARE SO RIGHT"
Dictatorial.

Droda.

I am going to be very honest with you. If this comes across as mean, I'm sorry.

The Snare/Root trap didn't work. Feedback was poor. The Druids in Beta opted to have it switched to an Aura. The Aura is passive regen / cure. Regen will help you weather you solo or group. This is esp true if you get hit while soloing.

End Result: No Snare / Root Trap Chances of it getting placed back in are slim.

Moonshadow: Passed all the Druids on Beta without Issue with the sole exception of the Recast timer.

Barkspur: Spell had major issues and was reworked at least 3 times. Final verison may not be preect but its nto stupid overpowered either.

Now, You can complain all you like. Honestly tho most of the complaint on this forum are from people who opted not to play in Beta.

Beta testing exists for a reason. Its for testing and tuning content. If you are really that upset about the spells (seeing as how servers are down the best I think you could have done by now are the to Auras) and have very specfic cases where the spell is lacking. They are apt to listen to you.

You don't however, your saying the spells suck because you dislike them. I'm sorry Living Vine didn't get put in, but it wasn't promised and They are far more likely to adjust the Auras then add the trap back.

So, my suggestion to you (and everyone else who is major unhappy), is to sign up for Beta Testing next time. Complaining about Root aggro is non-productive and doesn't help us with these spells at all.

-Fenier

Sorry Fenier, I dont care any more of the traps.. As you say there is no hope for me to have them back.
And as a druid i am used to my tools sucking badly, so thats just 3 more useless spells.

I do care although of the way decisions are taken that affect all of us.
Absor asked what we druid as a community think about the new spells .. not the beta testers only.
But every time someone here tries to dissent he gets bashed.
Thats dictatorial.

Only some polls would make some sense. THEN it makes sense to discuss on that basis.

Aura of Life:
: Increase Hitpoints by 30 per tick
: Decrease Disease Counter by 2

In Lucy it has 2 effects triggered, 1 is the 30 regen and the other is the disease cure. Looks as if the cure counters were either nerfed more or never was even 3 counters. I don't know how useful 2 counters will be on anything.. but if it stacks with our current regen and it lasts 30 minutes there's really not a reason to not have it up. 90 regen / tick is really not too shabby added up over a 25-30 minute period. Indirectly heals group members about 1000 per minute.

Except an exceptionally small amount of Druids read these Fourms. That is why they announce Beta Testing in Game.

Absor asked - Since the NDA is lifted - he was curious to hear comments.

And you are welcome to comment all you like. However until yesterday people had no chance to actually play with the new spells / content and afaik Moonshadow and Barkspur are still MIA.

So you can debate numbers, but no one except the beta testers had first hand information / view point till yesterday.

The Druids in Beta where a very good cross section of all differant kinds of players. No one Druids dominated the beta spell discussions.

With the exception of Barkspur the other Spells - Moonshadow and Aura's both, are believed by at least the BEta Testing Druids to be excessvily helpful or at least useful.

You can use numbers in all differant ways for as long as you like, but until you try the spell first hand over the course of a few encounters you can't really say one way or the other if its viable in its current form.

-Fenier

To emphasies the other Fens point :elfbiggri

Please if you get a chance next time play on beta it's the only real way to influence the spells for the expansions, It's a lot lot easier to get a spell changed in beta than it is after launch.

But don't expect the devs to always agree with what players want because often they don't, but with the beta forums used in PoR we had good and useful discussions (for the most part) on why things were like they are. Ohh and the devs are great fun to group/raid with :texla:

So if you get a chance please sign up for the next beta.

Cant beta .. as i cant raid.. .. but thats not my point.

1) the read count if this thread is 14000, that doesnt seem so small of a number in a few days of existence. I think that the number of druids reading this according to that numbers could well make it a significant sample of the druid community. And the fact that Absor is asking HERE it support that thesis. How many druid mains are there???
2) yes giving the time for experimenting is right. But then druids should have a chance to have their voice heard, to state thier opinion and to request a change to SOE (or avoid a change) if the majority of druids agree. I.E POLLS.
3) You didnt answer my question that it would be a right thing to setup polls here for the main questions. Do you agree?

Raiding and Being in Beta have nothing to do with each other - hence the open signups.

the Post View Count is high, very probly because of the nearly 300 replies on this thread everytime someone checks one - it goes up.

Some druids don't read forums *at all*.

Finally, the top 10 gives an idea of what we'd like.

Beta spells tend to partially reflect that and partially reflect what they think we may find useful.

We're then asked to test and tune the spells.

Alot of people wanted to replace Barkspur with a new DoT. It didn't happen.

You do not see those people her ehowever whining about how unfair it was. Rytan took the arguements and made a decision. That's his call.

-Fenier

Fenier can u read? I am NOT wining at all
You are not answering to my question.

Because you dont give an answer, I might think you dont like polls ..
that you dont like to know what the majority of the druid community thinks,
or that you consider that uninteresting.
Else you would answer "Sure! lets make polls!"

I assure you flat out you really don't want to get insulting with me.

Polls, as I have explained, wouldn't do any good. The Druid playerbase far exceeds this forum, and quite frankly - Not everyone cares one way or the other.

Even if we did have Polls, as I have pointed out, it doesn't mean Sony would accept those results.

Finally, this has very little (IE - nothing) to do with discussing the spells. What youhave is an Unknempt topic and it should be moved there.

-Fenier

More Numbers. Compared Shaman heal.

The following numbers are raid buffed with the following.
-11,000 mana pool
-97 mana/tic (92 mana/tic Paladin and Shaman)
-40% Spell Haste
-23% Critical Rate (Healing Gift)
-10% Critical Rate (Cleric and Shaman AA's)
-2% Critical Rate (DoN AA)
-28% Healing Increase (Healing Adept)
-60% Healing Increase (Item Focus)
-21% Mana Preservation (Alteration Spec. + Spell Casting Mastery, Priest Only, 0% Paladin)
-20% Mana Preservation (Item Focus)
-10% GoM Proc (Priest Only, 0% Paladin)
-85% Beneficial Spell Duration (SCRM + 35% Item, Only need 25% item to hit these numbers)

Elixier of Divinity (Cleric lvl 70)
-22.62 MPS
-43.86 HPM
-992.24 HPS
Maxed out over time taking advantage of the Duration, and only recasting it on the same group when it fades.

Ghost of Renewal (Shaman lvl 70)
-18.64 MPS
-37.64 HPM
-701.64 HPS
Maxed out over time taking advantage of the Duration, and only recasting it on the same group when it fades.

Ghost of Renewal (Shaman lvl 70)
-35.95 MPS
-36.72 HPM
-1320.22 HPS
Recasted when the spell gem refreshes on multiple groups.

Word of Vivification (Cleric lvl 69)
-165.52 MPS
-46.77 HPM
-7741.87 HPS

Moonshadow (Druid lvl 70)
-31.84 MPS
-25.8 HPM
-821.65 HPS

Wave of Piety (Paladin lvl 70)
-26.62 MPS
-18.34 HPM
-488.41 HPS

Looking above, I do have to wonder why Shamans are soo much closer to Cleric healing than Druids are to Cleric healing. I am looking at like spells as well. (Whoops forgot, this spell is a new line to Druids, ok its justified :bs:)

If you need me to post more detailed information, I can dump that here as well, so you call all see the mathmatics involved.

>>this has very little (IE - nothing) to do with discussing the spells. What youhave is an Unknempt topic and it should be moved there.

yes it has to do with the legitimacy of a small group of writers to bash every dissenting opinion in this thread.

>>I assure you flat out you really don't want to get insulting with me.

I didnt insult you in any way. Or is that a menace?

>>Polls, as I have explained, wouldn't do any good. The Druid playerbase far exceeds this forum, and quite frankly - Not everyone cares one way or the other.

So thats like saying its better to take NO ACTION to sample the druid community opinion? While allowing a small group of writers to keep a monopoly and bash all dissent as "wining" , while repeatedly saying they represent what most druid think is right? Or is this group just plain scared of knowing what the majority really think?

>>Even if we did have Polls, as I have pointed out, it doesn't mean Sony would accept those results.

Irrelevant. Also because the voice of the druid community is not collected, so it simply doesnt get to SOE.

I give up Droda. My attempts at basic logic and sound reasoning have failed with you. Its like your either not reading what I write, or not grasping it.

They asked the Druid Commuinity for what they wanted. This takes place as the Top 10, and the Druids who signed up for Beta.

We can't do mroe then that. We gave what we wanted, and we got some of it and some of it we didn't.

You can't accept this for whatever reason, and I'm sorry, but continously derailing this thread is non-productive.

-Fenier

About Barkspur.

Just saw tons of peeps saying our nuke are more powerful/better mana ratio with focus and yes it's true but i think they miss the point.

While DOD was a huge enhancement for DPS (gift of mana, new nuke, etc ...) it seems POR is not for most class.
POR seems to adds some abilities/usefull/situationnal spell more than big dps upgrade.

So about barkspur it should not be considered as a big dps upgrade but more as a situationnal spell.

It has some advantages: No aggro and unresistable damage.

I can see two reason to use it:

- In the case you have to heal:
You don't have to switch target to damage the mob it's a few second gained that can keep the tank alive in some cases.
More in most case i never nuke before debuffing mobs to avoid getting to much resist. So if i have to heal and want to do a little dps i have to debuff and nuke and mostly can hardly pass one nuke or maybe two before mob is dead. It's not really mana friendly to debuff cold a mob to only cast one nuke neither to not debuff cold and got a resist on your only nuke.
Here barkspur prove itself useful.

- as a Lure spell:
Until now we never get any type of Lure spell. Most of time we nuke cold if fire resistant and nuke fire if cold resistant. If both well we launch our magic bases dot. But there was nothing like a lure spell who will work on every mob whatever his resist are or whatever his shielding (like aneuk who mitigate 50% spell damage when not dispell).
Barkspur is that spell.

Barkspur is far for useless, it's not a "have to mem" spell but there is lot of situation it will prove really useful.

And if it was a "have to mem" spell i would be really in trouble to find which spell to cancel to mem barkspur instead :p

Looking above, I do have to wonder why Shamans are soo much closer to Cleric healing than Druids are to Cleric healing.

I think because we are a minor class .. our role is mostly to fill up a spot when the group really cant find anything more useful .. we just have to accept that, and be happy.

I will not comment on any of the new spells until I have them in my spell book and I have used them several times in various situations and have seen up close how they work.

Prefect example, with the last expansion I figured I wouldn't replace my 64 root with Spiral Spore because of issues with range, recast, etc. BUT after several times of forcing myself to try it in various situations I have now placed it in my saved "standard group" spell set and replaced Savage Root.

I agree big time though, and I actually posted on this before, with the comment here about mem'ing all these new spells. 8 spell gems (#9=Oaken Guard) isn't enough. It is sorta sad knowing I may not use some spells purely based upon the inability to get them mem'd in with the other spells I need and/or the stupid long refresh rate when a spell is first mem'd. If anything, I would like that info passed along to Absor and the other Devs... "hey, its nice you are giving us a wider varity of spells in our tool box, but we are at overload point almost on what we can mem and not mem."

One example that really has me thinking is the new group heal. I am very happy to get it (won't comment on it though until I use). BUT I am trying to figure what I am going be able to drop out of "normal" raid spell set. Ugghh.

Cant beta .. as i cant raid.. .. but thats not my point.


Sorry just had to address this point.

Please dont think that if you don't raid you can't do beta :( The devs need all types of players to do the beta so they can test the whole range of the expansion.

Originally Posted by dorda
I think because we are a minor class .. our role is mostly to fill up a spot when the group really cant find anything more useful .. we just have to accept that, and be happy.


/sigh, your constant going on and on about how bad and broken we are is NO where even remotely close to my view on Druids nor my guildmates and regular groupers views on Druids... please give this thread a break Dorda and save it for the next thread, we all got your viewpoint by now.

I give up Droda. My attempts at basic logic and sound reasoning have failed with you. Its like your either not reading what I write, or not grasping it.-Fenier

Seems so .. i was only asking a few poll on the spells that are discussed here .. i dont see why is that so difficult, or insulting .. or how is that a thread derailment. It is just evident to me that you simply dont want to do that.

Some people cannot debate without it getting personal. I have mostly stopped posting here because you get bashed by a select few no matter what you say.


Overly "positive" about something and you get bashed.
Overly "negative" about something and you get bashed.


While I still read this board it seems that the level of tollerance has dropped as of late. I understand that most of this is a venting of frustration but I see it this way....

No "ONE" person is the end all be all Druid rep of infinite knowledge or opinion. My opinion is just as valid as yours and everyone plays the game different and as such may like or dislike the same spells or abilities. What I see in this thread are the same "know-it-alls" who try and force their opinion on others.


If you read some of my posts from way back I was touched with a bit of this myself :)


Some very knowledgeable Druids at the high level told me things and I refused to listen because I was being pig-headed. Well some of what I said still proves true but much of it was false and had I but listened to some instead of debating for the sake of debate I would have been better off.


While I stepped back from my "high horse" I think a few others have stepped up and taken my place :)


Everyone lighten up and lets try and respect each other.


-Cass

The following numbers are self buffed, no AA's and DoN augs.
-9,000 mana pool
-14 mana/tic (9 mana/tic Shaman, 4 mana/tic Paladin)
-15% Spell Haste
-0% Critical Rate (Healing Gift)
-0% Critical Rate (Cleric and Shaman AA's)
-0% Critical Rate (DoN AA)
-0% Healing Increase (Healing Adept)
-20% Healing Increase (Item Focus)
-11% Mana Preservation (Alteration Spec. , Priest Only, 0% Paladin)
-10% Mana Preservation (Item Focus)
-0% GoM Proc (Priest Only, 0% Paladin)
-15% Beneficial Spell Duration

Elixier of Divinity (Cleric lvl 70)
-48.08 MPS
-18.43 HPM
-886.23 HPS
Maxed out over time taking advantage of the Duration, and only recasting it on the same group when it fades.

Ghost of Renewal (Shaman lvl 70)
-36.12MPS
-15.86 HPM
-572.97 HPS
Maxed out over time taking advantage of the Duration, and only recasting it on the same group when it fades.

Ghost of Renewal (Shaman lvl 70)
-39.06 MPS
-15.86 HPM
-619.60 HPS
Recasted when the spell gem refreshes on multiple groups.

Word of Vivification (Cleric lvl 69)
-148.45 MPS
-22.04 HPM
-3271.97 HPS

Moonshadow (Druid lvl 70)
-36.96 MPS
-11.90 HPM
-439.98 HPS

Wave of Piety (Paladin lvl 70)
-26.84 MPS
-9.68 HPM
-259.88 HPS

Just for fun. We are talking a Monster Mission played character here. Mana should be lower, but im not doing it all over.

Things are looking better :banghead_

You can use numbers in all differant ways for as long as you like, but until you try the spell first hand over the course of a few encounters you can't really say one way or the other if its viable in its current form.

Then I invoke the same rules, you can't claim its the 2nd coming and valid until its found.

Just saw tons of peeps saying our nuke are more powerful/better mana ratio with focus and yes it's true but i think they miss the point.

/boggle, isn't the whole point of a dps spell to compare it to existing dps spells?

While DOD was a huge enhancement for DPS (gift of mana, new nuke, etc ...) it seems POR is not for most class.

Ahh, so this is another cleric/shaman expansion, not a druid one, gotcha. Now if they put that on the box, i probably wouldn't have bought the damn thing.

POR seems to adds some abilities/usefull/situationnal spell more than big dps upgrade.

Call me stupid, but i was kinda hoping for at a minimum that the spell would be as effecient as my nukes.

So about barkspur it should not be considered as a big dps upgrade but more as a situationnal spell.

Perfection Situation for Barkspur: I have too much mana on raids, and don't want to do as much damage by using nukes, or I am too lazy to hit the assist button.

It has some advantages: No aggro and unresistable damage.

Color me strange, for the past 3 expansions I have very rarely been able to draw aggro. Hell, even when i have tried to draw aggro, never works, its either the necros, shaman, clerics.

- In the case you have to heal:
You don't have to switch target to damage the mob it's a few second gained that can keep the tank alive in some cases.

So the first situation: I am too lazy to /assist, then /tar tank.

So if i have to heal and want to do a little dps i have to debuff and nuke and mostly can hardly pass one nuke or maybe two before mob is dead. It's not really mana friendly to debuff cold a mob to only cast one nuke neither to not debuff cold and got a resist on your only nuke.
Here barkspur prove itself useful.

Second situation: I want to do a little dps. Give ya a trick i use when i am primary healer in a group and want to do a little dps. I cast 1-2 SF (level 65 fire nuke). It does a dps, and I get a chance for gom to proc, coupled with the focus from the qvic gloves its a nice boost.

Barkspur is far for useless, it's not a "have to mem" spell but there is lot of situation it will prove really useful.

Call me ungrateful, but after shelling out 35 bucks for an expansion, it would be nice for 1 of the 3 new spells to be a "have to mem" spell, or even a "upgrade". 1/3 isn't greedy is it?

And if it was a "have to mem" spell i would be really in trouble to find which spell to cancel to mem barkspur instead

My biggest complaint with barkspur is the double cap. If they want it short duration, up or take off the max hits. If they want to leave the 8 hit cap make it last a while, 10, 20, 60 mins. Whats the harm in that, it still does less effecient damage then a nuke. Hell, inrease the duration to 15mins, leave everything else the same, and I would use it, because then I could guarrantee that all the ds will be used.

Same with SOTR, up it to 15-20 mins, leave the max-swings. I end up losing 1/3 the duration from pulling/breaking mez. Its capped, it only lasts through 120 hits, whats the harm from making it last longer. It just ensures the spell actually gets used up.

Then I invoke the same rules, you can't claim its the 2nd coming and valid until its found.

Except, I used the spell in Beta.

yay /spells

-Fenier

I agree with Cassea here, let's try to keep this conversation civil. It's always good to have an opposite point of view to keep discussions lively... so don't be angry about that.

Except, I used the spell in Beta.
As did I. However, what goes live isn't always what was tested. For example, Aura of Life is not the same spell I tested.

Not all beta druids were content with the spells (esp. Moonshadow). Some of us prefer to use /feedback and avoid the forum attitudes.

I was and still am excited to finally have a group heal. I didn't, and I still don't believe it's sufficient for most druids.

deleted double post.

Well so much have been changed to our detriment i feel something could be changed to fix our problems too .. or not?? I dont count on anything... stopped LOONG time ago.

It has to do with the thread because you said a root trap would not work because of the change in aggro rules that root is causing.
So we cannot get a trap spell because root is bugged (actually lame coded) and will never be changed. NICE, good thinking. Instead AHAH a craptastic lame regen/lame cure.

I like the way root works currently. I do not want to change it. Who is right?

Sorry but i think that whoever rewiewed the spell design during beta testing did a really crap job and/or thought about his own needs and gameplay, not that of druids as a community. And you can see that clearly by the discussion in this thread which makes it evident that a LARGE portion of all druids is NOT happy with the spells that have been finalized.

Then next time sign up for beta. I was in beta. I went on 0 raids. I spent a large portion of my time in beta working on tradeskills. I did help out the devs with 4-5 events when they asked for some testers in PoK. I went on an exp group once and it had 3 druids in it. Just because you do not raid does not mean you cannot test things on beta.


Democratically, I think we should setup a POLL on the 3 spells to see how many vote FOR or AGAINST each the POR spells in the current incarnation. That would make some sense. Easy question, easy answer. Else this discussion is pointless and endless.

poll #1 : happy about current barkspur?
poll #2 : happy about current moonshadow?
poll #3 : happy about current aura?
poll #4 : prefer trap or aura?
poll #5 : prefer group hot or heal?

This could give an initial picture of the acceptance of the druid community of the new spells. You will never get that information of of this discussion, as only the most vocal/aggressive/dialectic will prevail, but that's not democratic at all and you know that.

The time to change the spell to try and tune it to what the developers think will best fit with their goals for the class/spell and the members of the class is BEFORE the general public gets to see the spell. That is the whole point of beta. To test the content/spells/features of the new expansion with a small controlled group (compared to the whole population of Everquest) and adjust things based on feedback from those people. To post a poll, as you think is the ultimate solution, would not give you the feedback you need IN TIME to put the spell out for release. Also, if every druid said, Karana's Renewal should have its mana cost reduced to 400 to be in line with CH, if the developers do not agree, it will NOT get changed.

Only thing that can be said here without getting bashed is:
"OOOOOOHHHH NICE JOB OHHHHH NICE ... OHHHH YOU ARE SO RIGHT"
Dictatorial.

Wow. This really does prove you have not read this thread. The beta testers had varying opinions. They have been debating/discussing the changes to the spells as they have been going for the last 3-4 weeks. For the most part, they have said their piece. If you have an opinion but have no experience using something you cannot expect someone who has seen it and used it to think you have a more accurate opinion of how it will work. First hand experience is better than what someone else thinks about it based on incorrect information.

this has very little (IE - nothing) to do with discussing the spells. What youhave is an Unknempt topic and it should be moved there.

yes it has to do with the legitimacy of a small group of writers to bash every dissenting opinion in this thread.

You are being bashed for dissenting for the simple fact of you refuse to accept what we are saying or that people posting here about their experiences with the spells in beta considered options. The idea of the snare/root trap is still something most want, but to go back and change the entire mechanism of root with the way in which it was implamented it was a flop. You are whining about a concept not making it through beta and that belongs in the Unkempt section.

Stop thinking that you are getting screwed over by the raiding druids and maybe you can understand that their are more than 1 or 2 of us and that those in beta are looking out for the best of the class. And yes it does appear that you are here to be rude/insulting.

Its not that Cass so much as no one knows how these are going to come out on the live servers. The aura changed from the end of beta to what people are finding in the live versions.

I do not think anyone has found Barkspur or Moonshadow yet so we do not know how those are going to turn out.

The auras are coming out slightly worse than what I think even some beta testers were expecting.

I like the way root works currently. I do not want to change it. Who is right? ....

I am just asking for polls exactly to answer this type of questions, instead of going into endless discussions.
I think these discussions where everyone defend their opinions, and righfully so, weaken our collective position with soe when we dont reach an agreement.

So even where there is a large consensus on something we have no way to know it and go to soe saying "we druids (98%) think that!". There will be always someone bashing, even on a thing where the majority agrees. So our position will be generally made weaker.

As history demonstrate, broken things are changed in beta but afterwards too.. and mybe if there is another occasion i'll sign up for beta too.. but as usual life comes first.

I gave up on the root trap (and i wish i had the time and i knew how to cancel the POR preorder).

(and i wish i had the time and i knew how to cancel the POR preorder).

everquest.com

Click Sign In/Change User (at the top of the page. This is your EQ login name and password)

Click My Account (2nd line on the page)

Click Store Purchases (4th or so line on the page)


I'm out of time, but on that page will be a list of your transactions (orders), one of them will be your preorder.

Do you plan to poll every druid, cleric, wizard, paladin, ranger, enchanter, shaman, and necromancer in the game?

I am sure half the classes in the game have the same feeling as you, that root is so messed up in the way it changes from hate list aggro to proximity aggro that over 7 years there has not been an outcry to change it.

Sounds like something you would need to take to the SoE boards as it is clearly MORE than just a druid issue.

Just checked... There is a poll section on these boards. What a novel concept.

weaken our collective position with soe when we dont reach an agreement.

There is no class ever which fully agrees with an concept - someone will always disagree, reguardless. That being said, you will never reach full agreement.

-Fenier

Thats true Fenier.. but a 95% against 5% is very different for 50% against 50% .. and in the current way I think there is no way to distinguish between the 2 situations.

Thats true Fenier.. but a 95% against 5% is very different for 50% against 50% .. and in the current way I think there is no way to distinguish between the 2 situations.

The point your missing is 95 percent of any given class could want something, and Sony will still say no if they don't agree with it.

Moonshadow's recast timer is a clear indication of that.

-Fenier

Well of course i vote for removing recast on Moonshadow,its crap.
I also vote for removing recast on Spore Spiral.

If someone is asked repeatedly to keep the thread on target and on subject and they refuse to do that, I think asking them to stop is NOT in ANYWAY an attack on that person.

Agree debate is good - free for alls with no context or core subject are a waste of time and makes reading this outstanding class board tedious and painful.

said back several pages ago I would like someone to come up with an AE that you would need to spam continously to offset. The Only AE I've seen so far was Wings of the Gargoyle, and Kaidman handled that one.

Did not think I would be able to drag this out already, but only 1 week later and here we are. Still no moonshadow spell and last night we had to deal with all of these AE's from the same boss.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=7339&source=Test
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=7338&source=Test
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=7340&source=Test
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=7341&source=Test

We should get her tonight, if we get the "Clerics" to log in so we can heal this insane ammount of AE dmg.

Yes, I know the encounter and there are ways to get around (Some) of this, but you still need a crazy ammount of healing.

Not sure which encoutner that is off hand, and without a basic run down of how often the aes happen I can't even begin to reply to that.

I am assuming its something like Specialization with 4 hoigh powered aes but it switches during the encounter?

-Fenier

Negative.

They all go off all the time, and each one is on a 45 sec recast.

The encounter is in Theater of Blood, but im not going to spoil it past that point. You can ask Kaidman what the name of the encounter is, and any other info you need on it. Provided he wants to share, Im pretty sure they have defeated all the bosses in ToB, but I might be wrong.

We only spent maybe 1 hour on this encounter after we killed Gnarlibramble, so there could be something else to the encounter to maybe turn the AE's off or something, but we did not run across anything in that time.

I know which mob it is now.

I am honestly not sure that would be a fair compairson to Moonshadows due to the following:

1: Moonshadow, and Ghost of Rewnal even, have not been located
2: Said raiding force is very apt to have 575/600 Resist Cap and be hitting that cap. All the AEs I looked at had direct resist checks verus a specfic resist, they are not prismatic or chormatic.
3: Said Raiding Force should be at least 15% Spell Shielding on Average, if not higher
4: You could realisitcally offset a decent portion of that damage. Chanter Runes and Alendar with combined with MGb hoTs would probly help a fair amount.

I would think, that only after factoring all that in could you say weather or not Moonshadow Heals enough, and since we've not found it yet, it remains to be seen if it would work well in that given encounter.

I am not saying it would be enough, so don't take it that way, I am saying I don't know enough about the encounter from first hand experiance and how your guild is handling that encounter to verify if a 1920 + focused heal would be enough to deal with that level of AE damage provided its not resisted, esp when your guild isn't even using the Heal as its not found to my knowledge.

-Fenier

How often have you been hit with an AE even though your resists are maxed out? It happens FAR more often than it should, as is not very relevant to the post regarding the need for a faster recast on moonshadow.