In most end game guilds, the cleric to druid ratio is usually 3:1 or closer to 4:1, as a result, the clerics tend to be the ones LFG and log off frustrated when they can't get a guild group.

Logic would say that this is because there are only so many exp groups going on, obviously clerics are going to be left out.

However, if you look at some of the posts on this board and even on the clerics message board, sometimes the blame is shifted at druids because we add so much more utility in a duo exp grind, which is rather funny in a way.

But oddly enough, what comes up more and more frequently is that only being able to get exp by the charity of friends.

I think for the most part, grouping druids have always rely'd on friends to get exp, more so then any class, so I don't think this has ever been a problem for us to deal with, yet for the cleric, it makes it a lot harder to adjust.

In the Kunark/Velious era, a cleric could visit sebilis/velks and typically get into a group with relative ease with complete strangers, without the BYOG syndrome. Literally, the cleric could be the worst player of their class and still get a group based on their class alone. However since there was no aaxp then, as clerics hit level 60, they stopped needing exp.

I think almost all grouping druids envied that at one point or another.

Fast forward to the Luclin era, where there is typically no end to the need of aaxp and clerics finally come to the point where, they aren't needed just based on class alone to get exp and we start getting more towards today's problems of the druid vs cleric battles.

Fast forward to yesterday's patch with the inclusion of the new druid/shaman heals, we have raiding clerics, threatening to quit and some already have.

For me, the new heal hasn't changed one single thing about how I'll get exp. I have a certain group of people I'll group with for exp and will continue to do so. If they aren't on, I'll log and read a book or go work on a tedious quest.

I'll be damned before I even try to go to Sebilis and go LFG to get exp.

I think it's a damn shame that making friends and having fun with friends, is only considered charity in terms of getting exp by some people, I'm sad that a good number of clerics and druids think like this.

So I ask:

How many of you think you only get groups because your friends take pity on you?

And if so, are they really your friends? Because friends don't take pity on you, they welcome you because you are their friend and enjoy your company.

Heh, good post.

My husband plays a bard, and just about any healer will do, but he prefers to group with me.

Adding anyone else to our duo (be it my cleric + bard, or my druid + bard) is pity, or we are being guilted into it. That is why we are in Plane of Mischief. People want to grind with us? Sure! Come on up!

I do not resent grinding with guildies or friends, especially when they can contribute, but when that level 52 melee class runs in there and starts practicing her 0 skill 2hs, it really does not contribute anything to our group.

How many of you think you only get groups because your friends take pity on you?


I group with people because of the type of people they are. At the same time, I've never felt that I was invited to a group out of pity but out of friendship and wanting to hang out instead.

Sometimes I will run into problems with getting a group in Velks or Sebilis (Haven't tried Seb yet, and got into a guild group in Village the day of the patch as main healer, and it worked wonders.)

But honestly, if I sit more than 5 minutes in Seb with the LFG tag on, I just simply port to Maidens Eye, find a wolf/beast that is charm-able and then buff it up and go tear the zone up, with this new heal and C3 on, it is hands down the fastest and best XP I have made in game since level 10 =).

As far as being in a group because of pity of other members, never has happened to me, I have solo'ed for most of my career as a druid and I still plan to do that, XPing just isn't as great in Seb/Velks as when I solo, but for money making and AAxp when I hit 60, I'll more than likely be in one of those 2 zones.

-Bartleby Windtalker
"The Catholic Church Does Not Make Mistakes" - Cardinal Glick

You are looking at it all wrong. Are people having trouble gettign groups because:

A) There are few group/people so the few groups cherry pick certain people/classes and the rest of the groups sit LFG waiting for "Key Classes" to move?

or

B) There are so many groups that everything is permacamped old world lguk pre-Kunark style that groups are camping zone-in and some other "transit" halls waiting for a regular camp to open, and another 20 people and their kid brothers are sitting LFG at zone lines hoping that someone, anyone leaves...

I'd more side with B personally. The first thing most people looking for groups say in guildchat isn't "XXX LFG" but "How does <Seb/Velks/CT/whatever favourite camping zone> look like tonight?"... When their top 3 or 4 exp zones turn out too crowded, and no guild group has an opening, they all want to go out and start a little mini-raid....

I stopped going LFG a long time ago. Sitting forever at a zone line with another druid or two, watching people come in and get groups is not my idea of fun. However I do group with friends and guildmates and I don't think of it as charity experience.

I am saddened by many of the clerics reactions. But in many ways they are just repeating what happened when we got chloro....including the "they are going to kill the cleric class" comments. No one should quit a game because they perceive themselves to be not as desirible, they are, just now we can heal a melee a better then before.

K

How many of you think you only get groups because your friends take pity on you?
There are so many variables here that it's tough to answer definitively. In my guild, we often spend 3-4 weeknights breaking off and xp'ing. We usually form ad hoc groups with whomever happens to be available, regardless of class.

Scenario 1
Guild_Group_01 is looking to just have some fun and chit-chat while either camping an item (VP key component, etc.) or getting a little xp. As a 51-58 Druid I really didn't contribute much DPS-wise or healing-wise, but I'm pretty active in chat and nobody's too concerned about making "mad xp" so folks are happy to have me

Pity Grouping? - No

Scenario 2
Guild_Group_02 is looking to grind some hard xp in CT. My guild is very friendly and would probably not overtly turn me down, but I knew that at 54-57 I would offer very little to the group and therefore I didn't ask to go. At 58-60 I would feel more confident (especially with TR) but still think overall I'd slow down the pace.

Pity Grouping? - Yes

Scenario 3
Guild_Group_03 is looking to grind some xp in Akheva. Again, lvl 51-57 I could offer very little of value to a typical group other than emergency patching or low DPS. At 58-60 I become much more viable and could probably fulfill the main healer role now with TR.

Pity Grouping? - 51-57 Yes, 58-60 No

In short, I think Druids bring less to a group than most classes, especially 51-57. However, I think the new heal made Druids 58-60 much more attractive in 75% of the usual xp zones.

My opinion.

Primero Aventurero
59 Druid

I have never gone the "pickup group" route.

The only reason I group is to socialize with friends. That is probably the reason I prefer a small group (2 or 3 in the group) and don't do the raid thing.

We never pay attention to what class we are playing since each of us play several classes. I think the most fun we had was when there were four of us and we all had our Rangers logged on.

We practiced some long range ping-ponging using archery. Poor mobs were running back and forth going crazy and couldn't touch any of us :)

In most end game guilds, the cleric to druid ratio is usually 3:1 or closer to 4:1, as a result, the clerics tend to be the ones LFG and log off frustrated when they can't get a guild group.

Ratio of cleric to druid isn't so important as ratio of meleers who can't or dont' want to solo to clerics... and shaman. Shamans add haste which every meleer wants, even monks. So if a group gets a bard or enchanter then picking up a cleric is a no brainer if they need healing, but if they get a shaman for haste they'll almost never need a cleric. A druid will always be a third choice, WAY WAY WAY behind shaman and somewhat behind clerics.

But oddly enough, what comes up more and more frequently is that only being able to get exp by the charity of friends.

People tend to be a bit more charitable when you spend half your time porting or rezzing their sorry behinds all the time when they LD and die trying to solo. =)

How many of you think you only get groups because your friends take pity on you?

Usually more like all the shaman are soloing, the clerics are offline and the people I play with don't enjoy grinding unless their lives are constantly at risk. =) "Only a small pull this time" "what do you mean by a small pull?" "10" "You mean 15 don't you?" "hmm, well 20, but I lost 5, I guess thats 15" "why are you pulling 15?" "no one died when I pulled 13." "oh." *flips to page with exodus on it*

I bet you think I'm joking.

I know you're not joking, the melee types never have been able to understand what oom means.

I think its as simple as some people are min-maxers, and some people just want fun or friends. A person with the min-max mentality would probably take pity on a friend and allow them into a group. A person that doesnt care about min-maxing or exp rate, will allow anybody into the group, espcially friends without having any pity.

Unfortunately, many of the ones choosing in pickup groups are min-maxers, its hard not to be when you have a choice of classes that want to get into your group.

I do think you made way too many generalizations here, like most Druids hang out with set friends. I'm not sure how accurate that really is, i'd bet there are ALOT that just tend to solo. I'd bet a fair amount occasionally pickup group. I'm sure a good amount do set groups with friends, but you just cant make that generalization, and assume Clerics have an issue as a result of that generalization.

Anyhow, from my experience Clerics can still get groups, they were just put on a more even lvl with Druids with the recent patch. And they've been spoiled with being highly desired over Druids for so long, they cant handle something on a more equal lvl. I was at the Cleric board today, and i thought it was funny how Clerics always portray Druids as the villain, and the class thats so much better than they are. I read a thread where a Cleric talked about how some Druid got into a group, and gave that Cleric a tell taunting him that he got a group and the Cleric didnt. Maybe it happened, maybe it didnt, but somehow i think thats an exxageration. .

Anyhow, what about Shaman? They completely blow Druids away in groups, and as of now imo smoke Clerics, nothing like 70% slow and a gimpy CH. But Clerics seem to only worry about Druids for some reason. I still believe Clerics can get groups, are still the first choice for healing even in somewhat easy dungeons like OS beieve it or not. Its just that theyre going to have to learn what it is to not be the most desired class in EQ for most situations, and that groups arent going to wait up anymore for a Cleric when a Druid is available. I dont see anything wrong with that.

Interesting comments Aerillea!

Personally, I love the druid class for the flexibility it's given me from level one on. I've been able to solo, group, and raid all along. It's not 'til I got into a raiding guild that I've started to feel redundant. I think the new heal has gotten me back into raiding recognition and has enhanced my grouping potential.

I've got cleric/shaman/chanter twinks all 35+ and to be honest, slow is just the best heal there is (if the damage isn't done, it doesn't have to be healed). The only way we can really compete with Shammie's for groups have been the DS, DoTs, and Group Regen to supplement our heals. That changed with Luclin spells and AA.

I've never relied on pity or hanging-on for XP or grouping. Going back to the flexibility I mentioned before, I am often content to solo for my XP and can do it ole reliable (Root/Rot), mad dash'n'med (Quad), or constant action (Charm!). Yet groups became problematic because I simply couldn't keep the tanks healthy -- even when they only had my buffs!

This heal really makes us a viable option when lacking clerics or shamans. It nearly reaches the goal that Waters stated about having all priest-classes being equally desirable. It's nice to think that I may be able to fill roll of healer in a group now. Or that guild druids are now working out DruCH orders! I feel like I've been given a new lease on life!

Anyway. Thx for the heal Verant. I feel like someone listened.

Actually, I think the Cleric mentality is a result of always being needed for raids and always being recruited, thus they always expect to be wanted/needed in every situation.

The ratio of clerics to druids, imho, just shows that only the cleric class themselves are threatened by themselves.

Lets take my guild roster for example, in an end-game guild, we have about 60 people, 12 of them active clerics, 3 of them active druids, 3 of them active shamans, the rest a mix of classes.

On a exp night, maybe 30-40 of us are looking for exp, in perfect groups of 6, thats enough for 5-8 clerics, leaving at most 7 clerics lfg.

What that split should be is 6/6/6.

With this combination, there would technically be room for every cleric in the guild with the above scenario with dru/shm pairs being able to substitute as a cleric.

eqcleric.gameglow.com/for...adid=12189 (http://eqcleric.gameglow.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12189)

Take the above thread for example. The fear of not being needed. The cleric singles out the druid as what's causing him not to be needed, not looking at the overlay of his actual group and making that the reason why the druid can effectively heal. Nope, it's the druid all by himself/herself. Maybe, that's a tad bit of an exagerration but it feels like it.

-------------
Min/Maxing exp groups

Lets take the above thread again. A little one-sided, since we don't have the perspective of the druid who was healing and whether he was tossing nukes and dots or just worrying about healing.

IMHO they were all contributing to a variable degree in even-ness, but rather worry about having fun, it's worrying about I'm not really needed here, I'm not contributing the most anymore.

The cleric doesn't state if this was a group of friends he's grouping with, or a pickup group, I think it's a group of friends, since CT is mostly BYOG. In a sense, he made himelf feel like his presence there was at the charity of the group, or could be rather.

I think our new heal spells will actually get more exp - axxp groups going. Even yesterday was the first example. We had a group doing observer in Chardok. We waited for a cleric and finally decided to go ahead without one. We found humm it worked ok. So i see actually more casual groups starting.

Wyndi

Yeah I can see more casual xp groups being able to start up and go somewhere without needing to wait for a cleric/chanter/shaman/bard now, which is good.

One thing I wish people would get over is the cry of "Praise SOE we are balanced now!" Druids are not balanced by any stretch. They have simply closed the gap (some) of desirability between the 2nd and 3rd most desirable priests. Druids are still 3rd. TR allows us to function adequately as a healer in a moderately difficult xp group without the terrible dependance we have on a couple other critical classes we used to, and thats all. It does nothing at all for those instances when we are, indeed, still grouped with a cleric, chanter, bard, or shaman, and our dps and group contribution may as well be *zero* for all the noticable effect we have.

And thats the problem with TR. It allows Druids to contend with Clerics for group spots. Well the spots Clerics were hanging on to with tooth and nail are every day becoming less common as mudflation removes the need for much of any healing at all, most especially if some sort of slower is available. And it's not like Clerics add all that much to a group either, the big ones being CH and a guaranteed Res. The very questionable amount of DPS a cleric adds via hammer, while still more than sustainable druid dps (barring very high manaregen), is still the worst in the game.

I was opposed to TR as it sits because the heal doesnt do what Waters Standard says he wants. It's a nice thing for druids, but it's not the solution. Between TR and the fact that they gave Clerics the improved patch healing that druids actually asked for, I'm wondering if there's any direction at all in the changes SOE is making.

Tia

When I read this, I ended up laughing cuz, well, it's sorta the opposite for me. I get so much more xp soloing than I ever have while grouped, so I end up grouping because I take pity on the others who have decided they need me to fill out a group. If I'm after xp, I prefer to solo, but others need a group to get xp. If I'm after comraderie, then I'll join in and help the others get the xp they can only get while grouped. :p

actually I am hoping that POP will solve some of my grouping with friends issues. Currently if I log on and want to group with friends and they are in a totally different zone, I wind up either spending 40 minutes getting there or paying 30 plat for a port. This is why druids have an easier time playing with friends than clerics.

I group with people because of the type of people they are. At the same time, I've never felt that I was invited to a group out of pity but out of friendship and wanting to hang out instead.
This is true for me as well. And I also can make as much or more exp soloing as grouping, so I don't worry about it.

But honestly, if I sit more than 5 minutes in Seb with the LFG tag on, I just simply port to Maidens Eye, find a wolf/beast that is charm-able and then buff it up and go tear the zone up, with this new heal and C3 on, it is hands down the fastest and best XP I have made in game since level 10


Im jealous if I cant get a group I usually log onto a twink becuase solo clerics are very very infficeint(note I know clerics can solo and ive soloed some amazing things for what my class is but Im talking about efficency) even with the new changes/60hammer/yaulp ect ect its just not worth it. :/

I will usually sit for an hour if by then I havent gotten a group I will log to a twink :)


How many of you think you only get groups because your friends take pity on you?

I dont say its out of pity because then they wouldnt be true friends right? But that been said I only group with a few close friends of mine consdering the only time I got choosen for a pickup group if I go lfgis either for CT or some gimp group full of people under level 55 group in crapticular gear :P

Most of my good friends usually allow me to decide which characters to bring along when they ask me to xp (even though in most cases I would likely bring 2 or 3 eheh)


There's always a few erhm annoying ones though heh (Rainus please bring your rogue ... or cleric .. we need Area or Minv)


To answer the question .. I don't survive on the mercy of my friends ...

Rainus was my first character and I level him up pretty fast (and not soloing much mind you)
I've gone thru the usual hassle .. sitting at zone line lfg for long time .. starting my own group etc ...
IF I want to xp (ie get a group somewhere) I made sure I know the place well .. ehh for example .. seb on my server .. has the least people at around 7am EST .. so I usually get there before then and there are less than 5 peeps in the zone .. chances of starting or getting a group is high ... or after patch be the first to head to velks or CT wherever I feel like xping :)

Besides now that I can triple box effectively .. I don't usually need to rely on the mercy of others for groups heh .. I can hold down most xp camps with my cleric, druid and rogue :)

never thought of it as charity exp. i've grouped only with people i know so far and soloed the rest of the time. half the time i'm farming stuff for a quest or tradeskill. :/

The ratio of clerics to druids, imho, just shows that only the cleric class themselves are threatened by themselves.

Yep, any time I've seen clerics LFG in pickup zones it's because every single group already has at least one or are fighting incredibly easy mobs and have no healer. It's just that simple. Groups have "made due" with a slower + druid on weak camps because there wasn't a cleric around at the time, but if theres a druid and a cleric waiting at the zone and a group is looking for a healer, you know it's the cleric getting the group. The new heal won't change that.

Discouraging thing tonite was I logged on in solb. No groups. Got a port to KC got turned down by 2 groups. got a port to COM and got turned down by 1 more group. All three groups which turned me down were waiting for a druid. Now I am hoping this is just because everyone wants to test out the new heal and I could handle the injury there. It was the insult added to the injury that hurt tonite. Wound up paying 60 plat for ports all to wind up with no groups. Finally wound up just joining one of my guild groups. Heh heh they sent a wizard to come get me. Yay free port.

>> Anyhow, what about Shaman? They completely blow Druids away in groups, and as of now imo smoke Clerics, nothing like 70% slow and a gimpy CH. But Clerics seem to only worry about Druids for some reason. I still believe Clerics can get groups, are still the first choice for healing even in somewhat easy dungeons like OS beieve it or not. Its just that theyre going to have to learn what it is to not be the most desired class in EQ for most situations, and that groups arent going to wait up anymore for a Cleric when a Druid is available. I dont see anything wrong with that. <<

I was thinking about why druids tend to be "the enemy" and shaman aren't. I think it goes back to DL levels - the fourties. By then, shaman realize they are slowers. They aren't meant to heal they are meant to keep the group from taking the damage in the first place. They usually won't heal unless asked to. A druid (not all but a LOT at that level that I grouped with) on the other hand, will throw panic heals not realizing that the CH is coming. The cleric will end up ducking out of heal after heal and get frustrated because he isn't able to do his job. Granted, at that level the cleric is still learning how to time a 10 second heal and sometimes those "panic heals" are really really needed but it is still frustrating to the cleric to feel useless. I avoided grouping with druids for a lot of levels because of this.

I only got over my dislike of druids when I was in my high fifties and grouped with a guild druid who was excellent. She healed the chanter and me when I got agro and pretty much left the tank alone unless I screamed for help. She evaced us when I couldn't keep up. She sowed us and ported us. She regenned us. She nuked and loved nuking and just healed when she had to. I loved it! Then I started grouping with other druids and found out that by the high 50s most of them were doing this too. That I had missed out on wonderful groupmates because at the levels that clerics were learning how to CH, the druids were learning how to spot heal. They were learning when to trust the cleric that the heals were coming and when to throw that heal to keep the tank alive until the cleric heal hit.

Now I love druids in my group. I just hate wizzies. *giggle*

The original thread question - pity groups...

I don't think my friends take me because they pity me. They want me in the group because they like my company and we have fun together. I do however feel bad when I know I'm not adding anything to the group. When I know they could get xp faster if I wasn't there I'm not happy. I would like clerics to get something that allows us to ADD to the group instead of just leach xp from it.

I really hope no one takes my post as anti-druid. Now, I really would love a druid in group any day. I love having someone there who can nuke but still take over healing if I want a potty break or if I get behind or whatever. I was just trying to explain one reason the prejudice of clerics may have come about. DL is HELL! :)

I have solo'ed for most of my career as a druid and I still plan to do that, XPing just isn't as great in Seb/Velks as when I solo, but for money making and AAxp when I hit 60, I'll more than likely be in one of those 2 zones.


This quote kinda nails the problem on the head.

Those 2 zones are THE zones clerics go to get from lvl 50 to 60. Once upon a time those 2 zones were considered 50+ zones. In fact, I'm not sure where else you can get a pickup group from 52-54. But since the advent of AA the majority of people in these zones are lvl 60, and people under 54 have to suffer the /ooc shouts that they're "too low to be in the zone". Now lvl 58+ druids can take over the spot in single healer groups and heal that 4khp ranger main tank just as good as a lvl 51 cleric can.

I have soloed most of my Druid career, by necessity not by choice, atleast when I was lower level. I'd be a liar if I said I didn't ocasionally like to solo, but I loooove grouping. Why play a MMORPG by yourself?

I don't have a "set group" of people I group with. And I don't generally go LFG, either. I make groups. I pick whatever 4 people are LFG at zone in and we go make something happen. (I'm 90% of the time with my EQ husband, who is also a 60 Druid ;) ) That's what I do as a Druid, I make up for what my group lacks. If we need more damage, I nuke. If we need a healer, I heal. If we need CC I root park and throw DoD and Epic on it. I always tell the people I'm grouped with "You won't hurt my feelings if you find another group". Generally, people don't want to leave, though. =) (And before any clerics start quoting what I just said... I can do one, or the other. I can't do all 3 things at once without going OOM)

Sometimes just me and my EQ husband partner up together. Before DoT changes, we had to work out who would do what DoTs. It was inefficent, but it was exp nonetheless. With DoT changes things go much quicker.

I don't have anything against Clerics and I'll group with em. I don't have anything against any class, really. The more the merrier. I prefer grouping with a Cleric, because then I get to nuke. ;)

"But honestly, if I sit more than 5 minutes in Seb with the LFG tag on, I just simply port to Maidens Eye, find a wolf/beast that is charm-able and then buff it up and go tear the zone up, with this new heal and C3 on, it is hands down the fastest and best XP I have made in game since level 10 =)."

An observation only, not drawing any conclusions, but:

If I sit more than 30 minutes - 1 hour LFG in Seb, which I do more often than not, I log on an alt and fool around instead of spending 30min - 1 hour travelling elsewhere to LFG more.

Bombudil
54 Cleric

the problem is clerics are spoiled.

they are used to being needed. eventually when they join the end game, in which the amount of clerics around are unnatrually inflated for raids so that come exp time the supply exceeds the demand, they dont quite get the "instant groups" they enjoyed in ot or karnors anymore.

clerics think this means theyre broken or have problems. if they actually played other high level classes, they would know that going lfg and trying to find a group is something everyone always did.
all it means is they are just like every other class now; they actually have to go lfg. now that clerics can solo a bit and actually do decent damage they are really quite balanced.

in fact, of all the different sets of classes id say priests were the most balanced currently.

Is that the mage epic there Noonie?

As far as I know, without ever actually having wielded one, I would think that with a mage epic pet, a group is not essential to get xp?

And even before you got that epic, a mage is a fairly viable solo class.

You should try the frustration that soloing a cleric really is, then you would understand why we like being needed in groups.

i have a horse, epic pet, and flowing thought 11. with these items, compaired to your average mage, i solo well.

however, the average casual non-epic mage is not a spectacular soloer. they solo well, but by no means is their ability to solo offset by their "unneededness" to the point where they are at all equal, nevermind better off than clerics are regarding soloing/group neededness balance (which is clearly what you tried to insinuate).

ive seen clerics solo with the hammer and pet. truthfully, they solo almost about as well as a non epic mage. when you consider the fact that a cleric even after these spells is still more needed to a group than a non-epic (or even epic) mage, well your point becomes moot.
all aspects considered, a cleric doesnt have it any harder, and truth be told still has it alot easier regarding soloing and group neededness balance than most other classes do.

I did not trie to insinuate anything, so that is something you read into my words.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that mages are not enough needed for groups.

I know that I cannot solo. You telling me that I can solo... well, you can do that as much as you like to, it does not change the facts.

I agree wholeheartedly with you that mages are not enough needed for groups.
i didnt mean to complain.
i dont think mages should be a necessity to groups, ever. we solo well for a reason. i mean groups should want us around, but never should a group say "stop, the mage has to leave, lets gate back and find a replacement mage".

its just the nature of classes like us; we make things generally alot easier with things like increased damage and mana regen, we dont provide any essential role.

I know that I cannot solo. You telling me that I can solo... well, you can do that as much as you like to, it does not change the facts.

im just curious, what are you trying to solo?

things like fungus grove mushrooms, umbrous toilers in maidens eye, and trash in the grey should be pretty managable for you (even before the hammer).

a cleric in my guild bragged about soloing one of those level 55 skeletons in maidens eye -- these easily take me 60% of my mana.

i really dont know why one cleric claims he can do that, and several other clerics report they can now solo decently, but you seem to not be able to solo at all :/

somone asked earlier why clerics are so threanted by us druids and not by shammys.... well the answer is simple...
in my guild we have now 8 druids 50+
4shammys 3 are 50+
4clerics 3 50+
2 of those druids are 58+ with that spell along with 1 shammy who is 58+ with that spell...

most every guild ive been in druids have out numberd all classes by around double the number at least...

Now with druid DOTs stacking and the new TR spell druid are gonna be more wante in high end raids... i wouldt be the least bit surpried to see if most of the high end guilds on my server if they double or triple the number of druids in there guilds and make sure they have epic...

I was talking to my favorite cleric in game named celestrialsky... she told me how her guild <Good Guys> does NToV
4 clerics on CH rotation in g1 druids are now 3 and 4 group healers with shammys buffing... this will make life alot easier... Esp now with collage sarting to get back in and alot of folks back off to school...

Clerics if you feel threanted or scared or think that druids are going to take your spot then run.. RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN RUN... then when u realize how stupid u spoilded pricks are stop and walk back and appollogize... a druid can never take the place and the value of a cleric away... rez buffs healz all belong to clerics not druids.. we can just now heal a little bit better... its been a long time since ive been able o keep a simple group live with steady xp without KEI... so i intend to get my lvl as fast as i can and use it...

"i really dont know why one cleric claims he can do that, and several other clerics report they can now solo decently, but you seem to not be able to solo at all "

Simple - I am 54 :)

most every guild ive been in druids have out numberd all classes by around double the number at least...

Thats not the norm, lol.

www.engtong.com/valoran/roster.htm (http://www.engtong.com/valoran/roster.htm)
home.insightbb.com/~night...oster.html (http://home.insightbb.com/~nightbane/Roster.html)
novae.dhs.org/members/ (http://novae.dhs.org/members/)
www.afterlifeguild.org/members.cgi (http://www.afterlifeguild.org/members.cgi)
darkwind.info/frame_members.php (http://darkwind.info/frame_members.php)
www.drow.org/eq/roster/ (http://www.drow.org/eq/roster/)
www.elementofdarkness.com...sort=class (http://www.elementofdarkness.com/Eq/eqroster.asp?sort=class)
www.fohguild.org/html/members.html (http://www.fohguild.org/html/members.html)
www.legacyofsteel.net/view_members.php (http://www.legacyofsteel.net/view_members.php)
www.tritonguild.com/db/me...php?sort=2 (http://www.tritonguild.com/db/members.php?sort=2)

lindara - i think he was talking about -55 newbie guilds :P

ive seen clerics solo with the hammer and pet. truthfully, they solo almost about as well as a non epic mage.

Must have been some uber clerics with the uber rare-drop lvl 60 hammer spell, and high enough ac and hp to take the damage the mob dishes out.

most every guild ive been in druids have out numberd all classes by around double the number at least...


As noted above, he is talking about low and mid range guilds. The reason there are not a lot of clerics in these guilds is that if the cleric is interested in raiding at all, they tend to get snapped up into the higher level raiding guilds at lower levels, for obvious reasons.

And I don't expect all clerics to be able to solo well. This is more a function of the player, and the difference that makes in what can be done with a class. There are good and bad DRUID soloers just like there now are good and bad cleric soloers.

It is so funny to hear other classes tell us how well we solo now. I could say wow a mage is ungodly soloing and can solo the planes themself and druids octakite. The truth of the matter is play the class and try it and then come back and state what is and what is not possible. Quit telling other classes what they can do when we who play them no better.

How many clerics told druids they could heal well enough? And you had druids on your own boards saying that they could already heal well enough and quoting the high level places that they were main healer. Know what they were not your average druid. And neither are the clerics who can now solo efficiently.

The fact of the matter is you can not look at a level 60 cleric from an uber guild with uber equipment soloing and say that clerics can now solo. The level 56 hammer was nerfed to hell. Clerics can not solo EFFICIENTLY. And the claim that they can solo coming from two of the four best soloing classes in the game mage and druid with the others being wiz, necro is just bunk.

You could heal before TR-not efficiently. mages could add nuke damage on raids--not efficiently. Think of what the clerics sounded like who tried to keep you from getting better healing--greedy? Well that is you now. Dont quote the exception (a cleric who because of super gear can solo) and say it is the rule.

sorry Noonie but you showed your ignorance of the healing classes when you said we were the most balanced. Apparently you have never heard of shaman.

I honestly think even the druids would have to admit shaman are the most wanted in groups, equally wanted in raids and their rite of passage to 60 happens to be soloing a western waste dragon--ever see a cleric do that?

""ive seen clerics solo with the hammer and pet. truthfully, they solo almost about as well as a non epic mage""

ROFLMAO I use my 53 mage with her 52 pet vocarate of earth to farm things in areas where my cleric would be paste. Know how she does it--she sigs the pet on a mob in the middle of about 5 others and nothing aggros pet. She rocks. Here is a hint for those mages who are soloing worse than clerics. Look in your spellbooks. There is a spell there to summon a pet. That pet is basically your tank. use it. OMG LMAO mages cant solo. eeeebbbaaaayyy anyone.

the pre 60 hammer we are better off sitting and nuking. OUR NUKES ARE BETTER THAN YOUR NUKES COMBINED WITH PET. Please think before posting noonie. Maybe your post should have said "a level 60 uber cleric with uber equipment can solo better than a level 52 mage who bought the account on ebay and doesnt know about using pets"

point 1) mages solo very well regardless of epic... up to level 54. after 54 you are hard pressed to find a solo spot which matches anything you can do before that. yes, pre 54, mages solo markedly better than clerics.

... but guess what? pre 54 clerics are still ungodly needed by exp groups so its balanced.

i am talking about the high levels, you know 58+ and aaxp farming (where discussion is even relavent because before that druids cant even ch). why are you talking about what a newbie mage can do and what a newbie cleric cant do?
--

point 2) yes, we have a pet and nukes, and you only have nukes/hammer. you kinda also forgot you have the most efficient heals and buffs in game.
you make up for your lack of truely efficient tanking ability with healing (at least thats how all the clerics i know have done it).

honestly, i dont know if low level clerics can do this well or not, but all the clerics in my guild can... and clerics like them are really the only clerics relevant to this discussion because like i said before, newbie clerics are still ungodly needed to farm karnors or sebilis in their newbie groups.

Hmmmm...I really don't think you want to jump on a mage about grouping. Trust me. They go lfg a lot longer than you would and have a much more boring job on raids than you do.

Racmoor

You did not see me say mages added enough to group. you saw him say clerics solo as well as mages. Clerics offer much more to a group. Mages solo a lot better. That is what my post said.

I think mages should be able to offer more to a group--that is why I quit my mage at 53--got tired of being alone or mod rod biatch at raid. But for another class to say clerics can now solo as well as anyone without playing a cleric lacks credibility.

argue for improvements to your class group appeal all you want. I am not going to stand in your way. heck move superior heal down to 49 for druids and NT down a couple levels also. Give mages something to do besides constantly being told "get rid of the pet" and mod rodding. But dont come here and tell another class how well they solo. Would you like people telling everyone how great you are in groups. I know many clerics told you you were perfectly fine in groups healing before. How did that feel? I have some great people in my guild and when my druids said they were broke in groups--I believed them--they are not the lying kind. When my higher level clerics in guild tell me they can not solo pre 60--I believe them--they are not the lying kind. I will generally believe anyone who plays a class over someone who doesnt until they show they lie to gain from it. If noonie contradicts me, I am not going to dismiss what he says out of hand. He has the experience (WITH HIS CLASS) My mage was only 53 and I have not really talked to guild mages. But I have talked to them enough to know they are disgusted. To me that is enough to say fix the class. Any time a class is not having fun (as a whole-not just a couple of people--cause there will always be a couple in every class not satisfied), then a change needs to be made. What the heck would anyone play the game for if it was not fun? If all I wanted was to level up without having fun with friends, I would play diablo II.

ok, right now mages are in really good shape... one of the most powerful classes in game. if your guild mages are unhappy its probably because your guild isnt treating them with respect, like they dont set them up in their own group with a healer, or they tell them to get rid of their pets for no reason, and/or tell them not to nuke even though theyve already made enough mod rods to last an encounter. maybe they just dont realize how to manage their time so they can efficiently make mana and also do other things on a raid.
but anyway thats another topic really. really isnt about mages, this is about clerics and druids and grouping and soloing.

the only clerics relevant to this discussion are those who are practically 60. since we both agree L60 clerics can solo, i see nothing wrong with druids being a little more group friendly.

You scare me Remi..you do...cause you always say what im going to say before I say it!

Tils

Everytime a cleric comes here and talks about how they can't solo I shake my head. I have a cleric friend who loves to solo. He brags about soloing. He never did pick up groups until lvl 58 when I basically had to nag him into it. If there wasn't a guild group he'd go solo, simple as that. There were even times I invited him to group and he'd say Nah, I'm in the mood to solo. Sure, he can't quad but he does fine on his own by root/dot/nuke/kiting. He dares me to challenge him to solo anything.

Anyway, this thread has gone far off topic....

As I was charming killing in ME near akheva ruins...I looked behind me and what did I see?!? A cleric quad kiting. Yep. sure did. I sat there and watched him and was impressed.

Later.

Racmoor

I agree, Mages are currently awesome, i dont know why people think their still gimped. I group with a 60 Mage with epic occasionally, and he adds as much, maybe more dps than a rogue between him and his pet in the exp groups we're doing. Granted, he has epic, but even the average Mage pet is as good as an equal lvl tank imo. Theres nothing like groups with multiple mage pets tanking. I love those groups especially if i'm feeling lazy, its just easy experience and the pets are expendable if things go bad, while you make an easy getaway.

There just arent that many Mages so people think of them like Necro's in a way because they dont see enough of them. People underestimate what they can do, when both those classes are very underrated in groups.

Please dont bring up exceptions about this ONE cleric this one time who soloed. I know druids who by their gear and conditions could effectivly serve as primary healer for group in hard areas before TR. People have posted in DG about being great primary healers before TR came out. We cant deal with the exceptions-- We need to consider the norm.

Geesh! You all think WAY TOO TRADITIONALLY.

Let me describe from the point of view of a 60 Warder with good gear AM3, DCoS, etc. I don't do charity groups. Nada, don't. I also get bored silly in an easy grind. When I grind exp, it is challenging or I log. Places I like are: single-group the Chardok Prince or Herb/Bank, or single-group Ssra Taskmasters, or single-group CT mud-pyramid or gnome quest . If I duo with someone, it also has to be challenging.

The places I do 1-group grinds really benefit from the addition of a druid. The chanter can slow, so a shaman isn't required. When a nasty pull comes in (2-4 MOBs, high leveled), a druid is VERY useful for patch healing. Inevitably, the cleric or chanter will draw aggro while at the same time the main tank requires clerical-heals (realize that taunt nowdays in these zones is FUBAR and nerfed). After the pull is stabilized (mezz and slows, and target MOB is being tanked), a druid does good dps with spells. If we don't have a druid, guess who does patch heals and damage shields? Me, the ranger. Frankly, a druid does a far better than I in these roles. Now you say, suppose we had shaman? I reply: Cool! but show me a shaman who still plays EQ. They are so damn rare at this level of the game. Anyways, a shaman won't be doing haste (chanter does), and won't be doing slows initially (unless we agree that I am the patch healer), plus a shaman doesnt have damage shields or evac. Point is, in these type of groups, IMO, the addition of a druid / shaman / paladin all brings about equal benefits to the group, but only a druid also brings the added bonus of evacs.

Next, about small group grinds. I (1-box) solo non-stop nowdays in ME with Goranga Scouts (lev 56-57 MOBs) and other level 50-54 yard trash. Great solo-exp. If I duo with a druid or a shaman or a cleric, guess what I tell them? Unmem most of your heals and slows, and mem DoTs and DDs, and don't heal me - I don't want it. I WANT you to be doing dps. I won't be meleeing. Rather all MOBs will be kited or root parked and range-attacked with arrows and DoTs. Healing is just wasted downtime afterwards, and I expect my partner to add dps to the kills. In my kind of duo grind groups, druids are great contributors and the exp flows faster than in CT. By the way, I can duo with a 51 druid in said duo group just as well as with a 60 druid. I don't do charity. If you duo with me, I expect us to kill things significantly faster than if I were solo.

Brum.
I take exception to that. I pointed out an anomoly because clerics refuse to do things the hard way and won't use this method because the RISK of dying is higher. The drawback to soloing...doh. I pointed out a SUB 60 cleric that used his spells to maximum efficiency.

Perhaps you should run though the cleric spell lineups and use your head to figure out how he did it. Nevermind. You wouldn't do it. Very well I will post the method he used.

------------------------------------------------------
Druids and clerics share a common PBaoe spell called upheaval. Clerics also have another line called the word line. I can hear the clerics scoffing now. But before you scoff too loud druids are killing over 15-20 mobs using nothing but the same spells you have or is easily available to you.

Laying the facts out.
Upheaval - 5 sec cast time, 718dmg(60), 625mana, 24sec recast time, DPM-1.15
Unspoken word(AoE damage and stun) - 1 sec cast time, 605dmg(59), 427mana, 2 minute recast time, DPM-1.41
Word Divine - 6sec cast time, 330dmg(49), 304mana, 9sec recast time, DPM-1.09
---------------------------------------------------------

If you do the math and include the fact that KEI, self buff and yaulp gives them a total of 32mana regen per tick. (14+6+10+2) then you'll see that they can.

Don't scoff because you wouldn't do it or you know of no clerics brave/adventurous enough to get it down.

It's my opinion that clerics don't have an true understanding of the risks involved in soloing. And it's a feasible option to solo. It's only an exception because clerics aren't used to the risk and are reluctant to try it. I wonder who scoffed at the first druid to quadkite and said he was the exception.

I'm not using an exception. This method is viable. Just because you or clerics you know are too scared to use it, don't scoff at it.

Racmoor

Quick question, Racmoor, about quad kiting. How hard would you say that it is to quadkite without snare ?

Don't try tell me about that Dark Elf only necklace with Clinging Darkness on it. I possess that necklace. It has a 6 second cast time, a duration of 36 seconds, and slows mob movement by 30%.

I'm also aware that it's possible to quadkite without snaring if the cleric has purchased SoW potions or a horse, or otherwise buffed her movement rate. However, it's profoundly antisocial as well as risky to quadkite unsnared mobs if there are other people in the zone.

If you've seen a cleric quadkiting, it's almost certainly because they're using quested or dropped, expendable, snare items to do it. (It's also possible to obtain a snare proccing weapon, but you don't try to melee while quadkiting, do you ?)

Quad kiting is primarily a druid/wizard tactic for a reason. A soloing cleric with access to snare would be better off fear kiting and meleeing the mob's back as it flees, like a shadowknight.

Don't get me wrong, there are reliable cleric soloing techniques which don't rely on snare - personally I prefer root-cooking - what I'm saying is that quad kiting isn't a realistic cleric option.

The reason my druid is so much more efficient at soloing (whether it be quading or root and nuke is ensnare). If something she is nuking or dotting(much better since it doesnt break root) does break root, she has no problem running ahead of it and casting root. My cleric doesnt have a dot that he can use against anything but undead. could use pet but then if I backed off, it would be dead in 2 hits.

Therefore my cleric winds up nuking a rooted mob. When root breaks, I have to try recasting root with the mob pounding on me. That is solo life without snare or sow. Let the mob beat on you and hope your root gets thru it's interrupts and resists before it kills you. back up cast a nuke and repeat the process. It would be nice to be able to cast our roots without getting beat on.

As a matter of fact I was duoing with a wizard in GD for faction one night and she went LD while I was carting around something like 8 to 9 mobs (we were Duo-AEing). Soooo, I thought Ill just see how many I can gather up while I wait for her to come back. 10 minutes go by...I stop and look behind me....20 Dorfs and wolves. About an hour later I had approximately 60 Dwarves on me and still no Wizard. So I decide what the heck, Ive got the spells up Ill use em.

Stun Command, freezes 4 of em, Unspoken word blinds some and then upheaval on whatever hung around if I can channel it through. Run, and gather em all up again because they lose agro once you start getting hit...maximum of 4 mob agro in-combat. It took 2 mana bars and a lot of hit or miss but I managed to kill about 25 or so before I gave up on it (and my Clarity was gone). Granted this was well before Luclin. But I seriously dont reccomend trying Quadkiting without snare because anything that will give me experience isnt something I want FOUR of attempting to teach me the error of my ways with kicks, punches, and claws. Completely FORGET about using Upheaval....its too slow, and if you have to channel it 2 times even you have to expend a lot of mana to heal yourself. I suppose a cleric could get experience this way but the risk factor is higher and the efficiency factor is considerably less. Multiple target, directed target spells combined with snare make quad-kiting work well, not Point-Blank Area of Effect.


Belkram Marrwolf

/sigh

--------------------------------------
Don't try tell me about that Dark Elf only necklace with
Clinging Darkness on it. I possess that necklace. It has a 6 second cast time, a duration of 36 seconds, and slows mob movement by 30%.
--------------------------------------
You mentioned it. I didn't. And the mobs were unsnared.


--------------------------------------
I'm also aware that it's possible to quadkite without snaring if the cleric has purchased SoW potions or a horse, or otherwise buffed her movement rate. However, it's profoundly antisocial as well as risky to quadkite unsnared mobs if there are other people in the zone.
---------------------------------------
This quite frankly is a crock of $%^#. You can go to the grey, CS, even ME and quad. Those are the quadding zones and that's where you banish us when we can't find a group. Are you too good to xp in these zones? He quadded right behind me and never lost his mobs. Hint: When you go to places like ME, CS, the grey then you know you need to stay alert. I have no problems quadding unsnared mobs and have done it quite often when I've pulled more than 4. It's a pain to snare them all, gather them up, then kill them. I just kill 4 then snare the remaining two+. You do realize there are focus items that reduce spells that have casting time over 3 secs? :)

----------------------------------------------
If you've seen a cleric quadkiting, it's almost certainly because they're using quested or dropped, expendable, snare items to do it. (It's also possible to obtain a snare proccing weapon, but you don't try to melee while quadkiting, do you ?)
----------------------------------------------
Ok, One more time. They were UNSNARED. It's what made me take a closer look at him. Otherwise I would have assumed he was a druid in Chitin or something.


So, let me get this straight. You tried it once, failed and said it wasn't worth it. I see. And how many druids do you think didn't die or got it right the first time?

Here's the point. You want to quad as efficiently as druids. You can't. So when you're not able to do it, you say it's not worth it. Do you want to be able to solo or do you want to be able to solo as well as necros? So you want to quad/solo as well as druids, but don't want any encroachment on your heals?

You can do it. It can be done and will reap more xp than your melee method. But you won't be able to do it as well as a druid.

I know. I've done it this way. Why do you ask? Because I have an upcoming cleric that will be quadding when he gets to 51(47 now) and I wanted to see how feasible it was. worked well and I didn't even have DA or DB to get me out of any jams. :)

Racmoor

OK... it's not antisocial to quadkite unsnared mobs around because `When you go to places like ME, CS, the grey then you know you need to stay alert.` I now see that it's perfectly reasonable to quadkite unsnared mobs, and that other people should just know to get out of my way when I do it.

Thanks for telling me about focus items, that was kind of you.

I do apologize for deliberately banishing you to ME, CS and the grey, so sorry about that. It was very thoughtless of me.

Yes, yes, you're quite right. I'd only ever tried quadkiting my cleric once in all my /played time, of course that's true.

Sorry for interrupting your post on how to solo a cleric, please carry on. No doubt your vast experience at doing so with your level 47 cleric makes you very well qualified to discuss the subject.

Hmmm...no a 47 cleric doesn't. but a druid using upheaval and sow does. Those are spells we have in common.

And before you nitpick and say you don't have sow. Potions.

Listen, I'm not gonna argue with you. This started because you doubted my powers of observation. This cleric did it. I was impressed and was giving him kudos. Take it or leave it. I no longer care.

Racmoor

Speaking for the Grey in particular, i think a Cleric can Upheaval kite there if they were willing to try. There are 2 things about the Grey that might make it possible.

-The Iksar Tormented Skeletons stay in place after zoning/gating.

-There is an initial 4 mob hit limit no matter how many mobs you have packed into one kite.

I'm not saying it would be easy, but i think its possible.

As for trains in the Grey, it happens all of the time, i expect them. I cant tell you how many times i've been trained from the people doing Sraa, while i was doing those golems in front of the temple. They dont care, they run straight through your camp with a train a mile long every 5 minutes. If its not them its someone getting chased by a worm/rock traps or see invis skellys. At this point, i treat it like ME, I dont complain about trains I expect them. Why waste my breath about a zone where trains are sometimes unavoidable.

There's no doubt in my mind that clerics are WAY spoiled. They are so used to getting insta-groups and being desired that anything less constitutes the end of the world. Sorry, but the line mentioned in another thread really does apply: "welcome to the world of the other classes"(except of course enchanters but I won't get into that, hehe).

I didn't doubt your powers of observation. I don't doubt that there are clerics who are prepared to quad-kite unsnared mobs in populated zones either.

I still think it's profoundly antisocial to quadkite unsnared mobs anywhere.

Bam102465... reality check, please. These insta-groups with ultra-desired clerics you mention. Which server are you on ? Because I want to movelog there.

Clerics are desired in xp groups in CT, DN, deep Chardok, planes crawls or whatever at the rate of one per group. (Smaller xp groups in FG, UP, ME, Seb, or whatever don't need and in most cases actively don't want a cleric, particularly if they can get a shaman or - more recently - a druid).

Given the numbers of clerics there are (and there's a lot) - and the numbers of druids, who may even outnumber clerics; indisputably there are a lot of druids too - that still leaves a load of LFG clerics.

It's ok for me, I solo (very slowly and inefficiently, but I have the gear and the knowledge of technique to do it), or I get a guild group from someone who takes pity on me, or I just log out and play one of my melee twinks, usually in one of the groups which didn't want my cleric.

Not every cleric can do these things. Cleric soloing is dependent on finding one of the undead camps free (do you have any idea how few appropriate undead camps there are ? Or how many paladins and necromancers clerics compete with for those camps ?), or on being a 60 cleric with Hammer of Souls and Aego and raid gear, or on gear like faithstones, chardok rings, sow potions, invis potions, snare clickies, and other stuff which - believe it or not - not every cleric can afford to buy or to keep replacing. Not every cleric has a guild which takes pity on her, and not every cleric has a choice of other 50+ characters to play.

I think it's a shame that you're so triumphalist about having beaten the mean, nasty, horrid clerics and so delighted that they can't get a group now. Believe it or not there are real people behind those keyboards who are losing their enjoyment in playing the game.

I think it would be more appropriate, and more in your best interests as a druid, for you to stand up and say, `OK, let's support the idea of giving clerics some spells and abilities that would enable them to move around and solo or work in a small group more effectively.`

It's not that we are triumphant that clerics can't find groups. We just think it's rediculous how many clerics want to have a guaranteed slot in EVERY group and EVERY class who can solo should be FORCED to solo regardless of their enjoyment of the game. Druid, take a hike and quad. You can solo, thus you must. I have read this again and again on the cleric boards. This attitude disgusts me. I don't play a multiplayer game to solo and being repeatedly told that I must because clerics "can't," is really frustrating. Honestly I would love for Verant to give clerics some great soloing ability just so this argument can go down the trash bin. But I don't think this will make them happy either. They want the monopoly on group healing back, and deep down they know that soloing sucks. If soloing is so great, then why would druids bother to "steal" the groups from clerics? When I can't find a group, I don't solo, because it bores me. I work on quests/tradeskills, or I play an alt, or I log.

My brother is a 53 warrior. He can't solo either, but a lot of other classes can do his job just as well as he can. He waits in line for groups like everyone else. Until recently, a cleric (or enc) waltzes in the zone, shouts once and gets into a group. Don't tell me this didn't happen. I saw it happen. So did everyone else who was at the zone LFG. For so long clerics and enchanters were in the cushy position of being needed for everything. Their power has been slowly eroding for many reasons and they lash out blaming druids when the reality is much more complicated than that.

I think the biggest competition for clerics is not druids but other clerics. If clerics hadn't had a monopoly on healing in the first place, and hadn't been needed in disproportionate amounts for raids in the first place, there wouldn't be half the high level clerics there are today, and thus their would be less competition for groups. But alas, this was the case, and now we see alot of people playing clerics for the wrong reasons, and a lot of bots that people duo with their melee mains, precluding the necessity for a cleric.

Then their was the SoL expansion which brought about melee soloing for aa. I've never seen this personally but I hear about it all the time so I'm sure it's true.

Then verant finally gave druids a much-needed boost in healing ability. This came at 58 and yet I see clerics from the mid 40s onward bitching about how druids need to be nerfed because they're stealing all their groups. Clerics need to get a grip and figure out why they are really not getting groups before they go on a raving banshee nerf druids campaign. Finding groups in general these days is pretty hard. Once the zone has as many people as it can support, it's time to look elsewhere. The only thing I can say is people need to get together and find a better way to connect groups with the LFG. Just running around to random zones isn't cutting it anymore. I hear clerics say they can't find groups and yet I've been in many groups that wanted a cleric yet couldn't find one.

Sorry, but clerics just do not go LFG on my server. They don't. Everytime I do a /w cleric lfg all the only clerics I find lfging are in ToV, Sra temple, vex thal. I don't think they're getting in a pickup group there. The facts on my server just does not back up the fact that clerics are dying for groups. No cleric in my guild ever goes LFG during peak hours.

Oh sorry. Yea, if they zone into seb at 0800hrs EST it might be deserted....doh!

You want a guarranteed spot in every group. Clerics feel that no group should be allowed to xp without them. Most of the time you can even do without chanters, but never clerics. I'm tired of that elitist attitude when they post here. Welcome to the world the other classes have had to live in for years.

I see here and on the cleric boards the absurd idea that level 58 druids are taking groups away from level 50 clerics. Yea, right. I don't group with level 50's. They can't taunt off me, the xp is slow, and the mobs they're killing are low blue. A heal at 58 and every cleric from level 1 to 60 starts screaming....I'm reminded of that chicken little fairytale.

Racmoor

"You want a guarranteed spot in every group. Clerics feel that no group should be allowed to xp without them. Most of the time you can even do without chanters, but never clerics. I'm tired of that elitist attitude when they post here. Welcome to the world the other classes have had to live in for years." End Quote.

Failure to understand the main point Ive been driving at is rampant here. I get groups. I will continue to get groups. I want to be able to do something when I log in for 2 hours. Putting a group through : getting there, breaking the camp, rolling loot, or even CR if it goes bad just isnt feasible in a 2 hour time frame. I want the same opportunity to be able to solo effectively and with some degree of the lower risk factors that you get.

IF this does not happen, then Clerics are up the creek. Druids have 3 options when they log in...Solo, group, raid. Raid is still quite limiting but it is primarily based around guild membership. Solo is...well do it or dont. Group requires some effort to get people, to find the spot to break a camp that, many times is hard to get.

Clerics have 3 options as well...Solo VERY SLOWLY, Group, raid. Ill give you a hint only one of those is going to bring experience of any sort. As far as the arrogance....I didnt go LFG very often. I got off my butt and formed my own groups dang near all the way through my 40s and 50s. Here is a kicker for you, I value Druids in groups....Im smart enough to realize how many roles they fill in a group....Evaccer, Snarer, Back-up healer, Damage Sheild, nukes, DoTs. Once I have a Druid I dont NEED to worry about those roles anymore, Ive got them. Plus the Damage stacks. Druids YOU tell ME how many roles a Cleric fills in a group....


Belkram

PS First person to say damage dealer gets to catch my hammer of souls with his forehead....I can always make more.

I don't think anyone druid here would begrudge clerics soloing, would they? I don't care if they're allowed to solo, I just don't want them to "own" grouping. By the way, clerics fill the healing role, the buff role, and the res role.

Unless you are going someplace where dying is a strong possibilty, being able to res is not a pathway to a group. If there are other hunters there you can generally get a res with a politely worded phrase and some goodwill (donation). Its like you folks at the grove keep saying...a port isnt a route to a group. Every priest fills the buffing role, hence I didnt mention it. I will grant we are the best at it from a purely HP standpoint but the casters prefer the cabbage.


Belkram Marrwolf

Actually, I had a druid friend bring a charmed ravenous beast to a group. Talk about a gift. :) He could've gotten a ton more xp on his own with that thing.

"Actually, I had a druid friend bring a charmed ravenous beast to a group. Talk about a gift. He could've gotten a ton more xp on his own with that thing."

luckily that Druid must've had some tolerable group-mates :)

The last time i brought a charmed Ravenous Beast to a group in ME was when i was App'ing to my current guild. We had poor dps, so i charmed a RB for extra damage. The problem ended up being whenever it broke charm, even though all the aggro was on me, he would hit whoever was sitting first then turn his attention to me. After about the 4th time our Cleric got hit while sitting, she frustratingly told me to get rid of it. It was only one hit to wake them up, but i guess our Clerics arent too tolerant of having to hit the sit button again P
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"Druids have 3 options when they log in...Solo, group, raid. Raid is still quite limiting but it is primarily based around guild membership. Solo is...well do it or dont. Group requires some effort to get people, to find the spot to break a camp that, many times is hard to get.

Clerics have 3 options as well...Solo VERY SLOWLY, Group, raid. Ill give you a hint only one of those is going to bring experience of any sort"


You cant just write off raiding as just being a member. You should ask yourself, "how did that person become a member?" Did the fact that they are a cleric as opposed to a Druid help them to become a member?? Are they less desired as a Druid than a Cleric to raid? So if your going to say a Druid can solo well as an option, you should give Clerics the same respect they get for raiding, they raid better than any other class.

So the reality of your statement should be

Druids
-----
-solo well

-group decently now(previous to TR highly undesired)

-raid decently now(previous to TR very poorly)


Clerics
-----
-solo moderately poorly

-group well to exceptionally well(in CT-like places where a Cleric is pretty much required)

-raid very well(still the best)


I'm sorry, but i dont see this huge disparity Clerics are making a big deal out of. Druids still dont have it as good as Clerics in regards to grouping and raiding, only soloing. So why do you guys feel you should be compensated?

I do agree with everyone else that Cleric mentalities are more the problem than anything else. You expect to be needed/wanted over every other class because thats the way its been for so long. You have been needed/wanted over every other class for so long you've come to expect that. There was never a class to compete with Clerics in the past in terms of healing, even a Shaman and Druid barely equaled a Cleric, never came close raid-wise. So Verant made some moves, and now its a much more lvl playing field for the healing classes. Thats the problem Clerics have a tough time accepting, not having the monopoly anymore puts you on a more lvl playing field as everyone else. Some Clerics will say Druids are highly desired over Clerics currently, while some Druids will say the opposite. Lets be realistic here, and say it can go either way depending on the situation, which means a more lvl playing field right?

I dont expect Clerics to be happy, but i expect the sensible Clerics to accept it as a 'balancing' move. I guess some Clerics took their uncontested desirability in the past for granted, when that was an obvious imbalance of classes. Balance of classes should be the goal for all games, dont think i've played one game where an imbalance of classes was their goal.

Lastly, i dont care at all if Clerics could solo well. Druids arent fighting you here, i dont know why you guys keep throwing this at us. Verant is the one you need to convince, but i doubt you guys will end up content either way. Niether will Druids. At least most of us can say its a more lvl playing field now, dont see anything wrong with that.

I've never had a group "prefer" PotG unless it was an all caster group on a raid. Aego beats out Glades in every day experience grouping.

It's extremely possible to get killed anytime, anywhere in this game so yes res does get you groups, but especially in dungeons. If you're at a particular camp it's pretty damn hard to get a cleric there if you don't have one, and that's if he even wants to bother.