This is a rant. If you dislike rants, I advise you to stop reading now.

That said.

People who think that higher end druids do not understand what it is like to go through content in todays game - suck.

I am going to take a example directed at me personally recently:

That is the fault in Fen's line of reasoning.... he seems to take the top 15-20% of druids to make up the Average/Norm.

This was in relation to my disagreeing with the fact that we need 3k nukes, 7k Chs and 2 second quick heals because the orginal poster seems think we should be doing that - and - retain are immense flexability.

One word: No.

I have been in the last two betas. Beta Druids (I would assuem Sony is using these as Average) had a mix of Elemental and Time items (translation: 130-150~ hp / mana and 4-5 180-200~ hpmana items. Without making a fake magelo profile, I am going to assume this comes up around 6.5-8k Mana, and lets go with 10 FT, gave or take.

They also alotted each betabot I think it was 200 AA. Lets say this is a tad high and reduce it to 100.

Note: I know not everyone is at that level - but lets jsut assume that is a baseline and people fall to either side.

Now, that druid should be able to do several things decently without massive downtime assuming a equally geared group.

WoS/RCoD/MPG/RS/Nest/Ruins of Takish-Hiz/Arcstone/Creators/Easier DoD missions.

As the druid does these, they get gear (augs/items) and AA (which enchance what they can specialize in). This is known as progression.

Complaints you can not handle content your geared for are valid. Uqua was not geared for level 65s when it came out and was retuned at least 3 items if I recall. THAT is a valid complaint.

However, if the "Average" Druid decides to try to main heal a Higher End misson (say 70.5) or Any of the DoD arcs on Hard - and fails (due to not being at that level) that does not warrent several posts saying we need to nuke for more or heal for more in drastic ratios.

I'm sorry you can NOT go Xto Z without doing a least a little bit of Y. When you attempt to skip progression points/paths you are very likely to fail.

If you fail, and you feel that you should be able to skip progression and automatically do anything with very little work on your part, I am going to fight with you. I won't feel bad about it.

This doesn't mean I don't understand your issue, I do. I assure you other high end people that get told they don't understand because their "uber" also understand.

Sony's spell retuning brought us decently inline with Wizards, Necromancers and Clerics. We saw increases in all 3 areas. I thin kwe're pretty decent compared to those classes now and short of providing drastic evidance otherwise your not going to convince me otherwise.

In Depths they opened up GoD to research, SI is now obtainable by every single person who plays - not just those who can hunt in Gates.

Sony added several progression paths for the more Casual / Average Druids.

These include, but at not limited to: Tier 1 Omens Armor, DoN Augs and Armor as well as Tradekilled Grandmasters, Depths Cursor and Chest loot, and most recently Arcstone Woven Bark Armor.

Skipping all these is a bad idea. Hunting in Depths with Ornate is not a smart move. Armor becomes obsolete. Ornate is a good 3+ years old now. at the very least people should be pushing 100~ hpt / mana in all slots at 70 (Masters Armor) and I personally consider that a bit low for that level.

I have no sympathy at all for people who try to take the easy way and avoid doing work on their own. None.

Naeyene has worked hard on her armor. She at 70 averages 6500~? Mana FT 15 and has a amazing 20 AA and can heal RS, the Easier DoD missions and DoN with minimal downtime. She's an alt. She gears herself on what she CAN do, then moves onto harder content. Likewise, she seldom has complaints about what she can or can not do - because she has realistic expections of what her limitions are. The limition is it takes time - but she puts that time in.

Now you not going to tell me a druid who is level 70 as their main and has 5 or 10 times that AA is going to heal worse then that. I don't see it as possiable assuming they are hunting in a group geared for the content they are doing. I don't buy it. I'll even flat out tell you so.

If you post solid logical numbers I may just agree with you. Saying that druids need a 150% increase in their healing power to do content tho is not only stupid, its laughable.

We don't need a 200% increase to our dps either. These are not even logical requests. But this is what we see every few months. When we fight the logic, we're told we don't understand because we're uber.

What most understand is this:

Druids are given drastic upgrades when they are needed to keep pace with power increases to one of the other 3 classes we seem to be balanced against most often. We're never going to rival one of those classes straight up, but we floor them with our ability to drastically alter our role in as much time as it takes to swap spell sets.

ost also understand seldom do requests get looked at seriously without proving your agruement with factual data. Parses, ratios, etc etc.

Its a Balance. To gain that ability to Nuke 3k or heal for 7k directly is not without cost. It will come out of somewhere, and probly some aspect of the class we care enough about not to lose. Making requests like I quoted are not only foolish - but dangerous. Often what you wish for is not what you expect when you get it.

Our class still retains flexability to this day, we've lost some ground in our dps ares and gained gound in healing areas (as opposed to say Velious and Luclin). This is not nessercarly a bad thing at all, I see us as being a more complete package today then I did years ago. I'm content. I'll even tell you that.

I feel bad for the people, for the average druids of everquest who no longer see this delicate balance for what it is. You should be happy to be a druid.

Being happy doesn't mean you need to compare Steeloak to Temperance and refuse to acknowledge the fact Temperance is a combonation of 3 buffs.

Being happy doesn't mean to compare us piece by piece, but realise what the class as a complete package can do, and suggest valid, logical comparisons where nessercary. Statements like 3k nukes, 7k Chs are overkill, esp when in each case your speaknig around 100%+ increase to the affected area.

I would say all said and done however, the end game druids have the potional to understand the hardships of the "average" druid very well, but also realise that progression is important, and can determine which cases are balance points and which are people overextending. The differance is small but important.

Balance for people is very subjective. Some people see the bigger picture, and for some nothing is good enough unless its handed to them. But to flat out say I don't understand you because my gear is better then yours is wrong.

I did that content BEFORE the spell revamp and any difficulties you may have had where experianced by those who came before a good twice over. I (and others) understand all to well.

So I have rambled a bit (rant remember?) But it basically comes down to:

High End plays understand the "average" Druid because we have all been there. They're may be one or two rough transition points in todays content, but if we did the content of 3 years ago with vastly inferior power to what can be wielded today decently, there is NO reason you can't do it with more aa and better gear obtainable over the last 18 months.

-Fenier

Another point to add: Players in raiding guilds with anguish+ gear and hundreds of AAs were also level 1 with 2 spells and 20hp at one point. And odds are, the casual druid lies somewhere between there and the end-game raiding druid of today. Unless they e-bayed, they've been where you are at some point struggling through progression.

I agree. I also agree with something another Cazic Druid said recently: people need to stop demanding things that we don't need, before Druids become something we're not.

I dunno if I am 'average' anymore. I know that when my guild breaks into Time, I will not be. Maybe people play a Druid expecting to be something else, and not a Druid. I like my Druid.

This game requires a lot of time to be put into it if you expect to get anywhere. If your not playing at least 10 hours a week - 1) learn to live with being a bit behind or 2) move onto another less time-consuming game. I'ld assume about 1/8th of all EQ players (with active accounts) would be 'inactive' in terms of playtime.

Also, ~50%? of pre-time raiders focus around MM's, so class balance doesn't concern them as much.

So, that leaves your average, 'active,' non-MMers somewhere around qvic level.

-----

If you consider hours /played per week, I'm sure the magurity of the playtime on xegony is held by Anguish+ people (we have a lot of ang guilds.)

I didn't read any of that.

I think the hardest thing is figuring out what an "average" druid is. I think it varies depending on which server you are on also. I would not consider myself average on my server. Most of the druids on my server are much better geared.

However, I agree whole-heartedly that SOE has done a great job in helping those of us who lagged behind. DoDh and DoN have helped me get items, gear, spells, and AA's that I would not have been able to before.

I also agree that it is the work you put into your character that either keeps you in pace or behind the "average." I am unable to play 7+ hours 6 nights a week. Because I was a major roleplayer for 5+ years, I truly lag behind as far as gear and because of such, would not be considered for the high end guilds on my server. But, that is my choice. If I chose to invest more time, I would get more benefits.

I think SOE has really done well to help keep druids true to their class. I also agree that if you have issues with "balance" of the druid class, you may be playing the wrong class.

The gaps keep popping up and I think SOE has done a good job letting people skip a bit of progression. LDoN and DoN were placed nicely to let more casual types gear up (Ok, anyone who could did enough LDoN missions to buy top priced items wasn't that casual but DoN did it right). In fact quite a few raiders upgraded gear when these came out.

DoD and I'll assume PoR will give people a few choice upgrades but the steady stream of new shiny expansions doesn't mean you can forgo everything before it. Unfortunately, it comes down to the fact that nothing is handed to you. When a new expansion comes out, it's aim is to improve the game from the previous offering. This largely means, better items, tougher encounters, deeper quests, etc.

However, I can see new players (are there new players?) coming into the game and having problems. The "newbie" zones in recent expansions would tear a new one on these people. But it's where everyone plays, the other zones are dead, the items in these dead zones are all but useless.

If PoR creates a big enough gap, the next expansion could be a LDoN/DoN offering.

However, I can see new players (are there new players?) coming into the game and having problems. The "newbie" zones in recent expansions would tear a new one on these people. But it's where everyone plays, the other zones are dead, the items in these dead zones are all but useless.

This is why they upgrade the progression path on the lower end every so often. The newbie armor quests in your home town/PoK are drastically better then anything we had as newbies back in 1999. The armor is even magical.

There seem to be a few differant paths:

Valor - NC - WoS - MPG
Or
KT - MPG - RS

The problem I believe arrises from the folks who want to go from say - Valor to RS without doing the work nessercary to support themseleves in new said enviroment.

There is plently of armor and aa out there to help players handle newer content. Moving from 300 hitters to 1k hitters is going to be a shock for people, esp if they've never seen a mob put out that level of damage. This is amplified drastically if you where to move from 300 to 1800.

Its not that the content is broken at all. It is that the person who's gear was enough for 300 hitters is probly not good enough to handle the massivly increased damage their armor has to take to ensure they live.

The simple solution to this is, rather then complaining the mobs hit to hard (Help, I'm a victum!) but to gear up a bit, work a few AA and go try again (Wow that was hard, I need more work).

Its far easier to pretend your a victum then it is to take the lead and improve yourself to handle newer content.

So, except in rare areas, the issue is not with the content itself, but rather with the players attempting to defeat that content. And while it may seem harsh, I would willingly bet money that Illsian+ content was not designed for a level 70 with few / no AA and sporting 100~ hp / mana armor.

It is vastly important to realize your limitons then work to overcome them, rather then claiming the druid class as a whole needs drastically mroe damage / heals / etc etc.

-Fenier

In Depths they opened up GoD to research, SI is now obtainable by every single person who plays - not just those who can hunt in Gates.

Wow, didn't know that. Bet it costs alot. I'll have to look into that since I doubt I'll be getting any more stones.

The Finished Combine sells for appox 30k on Cazic.

Runic Parchments are the hardest to get part (from my experiance) and if you where to supply one most int casters working reseatch would be happy to help you I would think.

-Fenier

Couple comments:

1st) Re: GoD spells. On 7th I've seen a couple of them for sale in the Bazaar for 15-20K each. I haven't even thought about buying them, as I don't really see the point. The DoT is worse than IotS (67), and the heal is worse than Chlorotrope (68). The nuke is interesting only in the fact that it's more damage than SF or WF, although at a poorer ratio.

2nd) (spoken from a casual perspective, 10-12 hours a week) My biggest problem with the way the game has developed is that I won't even try to get groups, since I can't keep up in the places I want to group (took a couple years off). The places I could get groups, I'm kinda high for the level, and there's nothing I want there (and very few groups fighting there anyway). Sure, druids can solo, but the problem there is, I can't solo any >interesting< content, something that can drop items I need, or some other aspect (flagging, progression, etc). Having taken a couple of years off, and being very casual in approach, is pretty much a killer. I read a lot about how folks here solo hard mobs, but they all summon, and I can't even begin to approach that level of ability with my current gear. So it's almost a catch-22. I am trying to gear up slowly through Bazaar shopping and DoN purchases, but it's VERY slow.

Now, I don't fault EQ for this, it's just the situation I'm in. But I think that's the source of a lot of the complaints you may see from more casual druids.

Tat

Couple comments:

1st) Re: GoD spells. the heal is worse than Chlorotrope (68).

Tat

I could be wrong (because it's been a couple of months since I read the post on this), but last time I knew the GoD heal SI is much more mana efficient than chlorotrope, which is a big plus to getting it. I used to use NI (since I didn't have SI at the time) as my main heal because it is also more mana efficient than chlorodrain.

Unfortunately, NI isn't enough on a lot of the healing I do.

NI is great though when we are all spam healing. Since, I always wait to the last possible second to duck out, and I end up waiting that tiny fraction of a second too long.

One of the druids in our guild noticed that SI produces a lot less agro when healing in Uqua than many of their other heal spells. My mains that I raid with are an SK and I box a cleric and heal agro in Uqua is insane, most use lower level/older heals and SCS is very helpful also.

ost researchers will do the combines if you bring them the parchments and other materials such as saltpeter etc that are required for the combines. Just look up the spell recipes on EQtrader or Ala and get what you can. Could check the int casters boards (necrotalk, graffes) and look for research threads, the necro board has a listing of researchers by server.

Hell i still use SI paired with ancient to heal in raids. It's worth it. But NI is probably comparable to the old SI so if you don't have SI, NI is worth it as well.

If I am not mistaken the Smudged Runic Parchments that you need drop off of the spiders and the werewolves in Stoneroot. Both are easily soloable.

SI is worth having, Fenier and I saved all our parchements from our missions to be able to give all the druids in Poison Arrow (who didn't have it already) thier SI spell. 90% of them use it...

Naeyene has worked hard on her armor. She at 70 averages 6500~? Mana FT 15 and has a amazing 20 AA and can heal RS, the Easier DoD missions and DoN with minimal downtime. She's an alt. She gears herself on what she CAN do, then moves onto harder content. Likewise, she seldom has complaints about what she can or can not do - because she has realistic expections of what her limitions are. The limition is it takes time - but she puts that time in.
You just lub me... Face it... :)

I'm sorry you can NOT go Xto Z without doing a least a little bit of Y. When you attempt to skip progression points/paths you are very likely to fail.
What gets me is the sheer amount of people who want to do this. They want to plow into DoD missions wearing Elsyian Armor, lol. (Yes I saw a druid wearing that recently in a DoD mission.) Yes, you are likely to fail that way.

There is really no excuse for alot of the people who are complaining. If you take the time get yourself in some decent armor (do some freakin' creators or something). Then you can probably do some more things. But don't sit there complaining you can't do this or that when you haven't even put for the effort to better your character enough to do them.

No nuke increase or heal increase is going to magically give you skill. Skill is aquired and learned through hours of getting to know the character you are playing. We all have off days, hell I died 8 times in RSS the other day. Its sucks but you get back on your feet and try again. (Or you can give up... and cry a river for all of us over here on TDG. =P) All you need is a little bit of incentive to get off your ass and go do something for your self.

People who think that higher end druids do not understand what it is like to go through content in todays game - suck.
*nod, nod* Seems they forget you were there once too-- Struggling to learn your character, get better gear, and challenge yourself in new enviroments. Maybe the problem with todays average "whining" druid... lies in that they don't want to do the above, they want it all handed to them in a nice silver platter by Sony. It's not gonna happen...

--Nae

/rant off

Hmmm, I have ancient and NI and use them on raids as well. But I thought SI was more mana efficient. Thought I saw that once somewhere on this site.

"What gets me is the sheer amount of people who want to do this. They want to plow into DoD missions wearing Elsyian Armor, lol. (Yes I saw a druid wearing that recently in a DoD mission.) Yes, you are likely to fail that way.

There is really no excuse for alot of the people who are complaining. If you take the time get yourself in some decent armor (do some freakin' creators or something). Then you can probably do some more things. But don't sit there complaining you can't do this or that when you haven't even put for the effort to better your character enough to do them."

Couple comments:

<--- Still wearing Elysian :0 Hence (along with lots of other equipment gaps), I don't bother trying to find groups in spots that are "interesting" to me.

re: putting in effort, and mentioning Creators, etc. I am MORE than willing to put in the effort. The problem is finding people to group with, who aren't looking to do level 70/hard type missions. If you are a casual player (play two hours at a stretch usually, outside of the "prime" hours), that's the main snag. I just don't have the time to spend 45 minutes putting a group together. If I >were< already 70 with 6KHP/8Kmana, I would be able to get groups (rephrase: I would be willing to try for those mainstream groups, knowing I could keep up and wouldn't be a burden). The problem is getting to that point to begin with. It all requires grouping, or soloing mobs that a druid in older gear can't solo. So I'm reduced to grinding XP in boring places, where nothing drops, and saving plat to gear up through the Bazaar/crystals. Once I get there, then it will be much more fun and interesting. Until then, it's a drag. But at least I don't try to impose myself upon groups ;)

Tat

I guess the main point of this is, if you are coming into the game now, and are going to be casual (no raiding), then don't play a druid. Go necro or mage, or maybe SK or BL. Or cleric, since you will ALWAYS get groups that way ;) I love playing a druid, always have, so I won't leave it behind, but for those of us "behind the curve" who don't raid, it's not very fun right now.

Tat: Look up "Tanned Wurine-Hide Tunic" - should be a soloable upgrade for you (unless you get an acolyte as a PH, I doubt even an uber druids can solo one of those, druid DPS doesn't seem to be high enough to beat their CH). The same mob has a rare drop "Mottled Wurine Hide Cloak", druid only cloak - also an upgrade from your Lodi.

Also, not sure how camped MPG still is on your server, but you may be able to pick up a rotting Soul Imbed Ring at the Taskfiend Caikap camp.

Alaene,

Thanks for the tips. I will look into the Wurine tunic, though I almost have enough saved now for the master/GM combo of DoN cultural, which will give pretty good stats, 130/130, FT/regen2, etc. I actually no longer wear the Lodi, I got the new quest cloak from Eldarr/PoG Friday, but Magelo didn't have it listed when I went to update my profile Saturday.

You mention something interesting about the ring. It never occurred to me to look for rotting items. I haven't bothered to look into MPG yet, due to my current stats.

ind you, I'm not really complaining. I have made incredible strides since my return last September. Added FT6 (to the 7 I already had), about 1000 Mana, 450 HPs, 3 Ornate pieces, several other upgraded slots and augs, all my 65-68 spells, 4.8 levels and 59 AAs. And that's all with only about 8 days /played!

Like I said, 8 * 24 = 196/6 = 33 hours a month, or about an hour a day averaged, pretty darn casual. I just want to get to the point that I can log on, see a message about "healer needed for 69.4" or something like that, and feel confident enough to reply. It will happen, just not soon enough for me ;)

Thanks again,

Tat

Tat,

You might consider going into a 'Lost Comrades' mission if you can get 2 folks to join the group and be afk or even join you on this kiting group.

Inside this mission, there's a huge platform in which to dot/kite yellow/red con drakes (at 70) and they drop the metallic drake scales/glossy drake hides that are used in your GM armor + augs.

If you have even one clicky dot and don't get hit (they stun and have killed me a couple of times at 10k+ hps), it's super nice xp, the scales drop ~5-8 kills and there's even a really nice earring/ring I picked up the other day.

I've killed there lots and was the first time I'd seen it. If I were home, I could get the name and lucy link together.

The drakes snare rather easily with ensnare and don't summon so they might take awhile for you, or you can nuke, if that's your bag.

In any case, the scales/hides are worth it alone, plus the xp and the chance at the ring, iirc the hps/mana are 115.

~Tar'Kaiden of Leviathan

Hakeashar,

Thanks for the tip, I will certainly look into it. Is this a DoN mission? The name doesn't ring a bell. Though I only can do the first two levels of DoN missions, since I've only gotten 5-6 coins/faction hits in the past. Perhaps I haven't unlocked them yet.

Root-rotting sounds like the way to go. I have the DoN snare (chromatic) and ornate pants for free root, and have ICA1 AA for an extra 12% DoT crits. BA3 and AE4 as well, so with a horse, I can do about 6K dmg/min almost continually. So if I can get in there, I should be able to handle it.

Thanks,

Tat

I've found that root doesn't want to hold very long on these, so have been content with running circles.

But then again, I have a shaman and a necro at 70 and they're doing most of the damage these days + lightly-buffed pets. I just go all-out aggro and provide a bit of dmg to finish the drakes off.

It's not a mission you unlock, afaik, it's just there. It's a nest instance, so I could be all sorts of wrong. I just stumbled on it one day to see if it was worth doing and found the xp to be stellar solo. It's hella-good if you can get a kite group going as well.

It takes minimum time to learn the spots for single pulls and the zone out is a circle on the floor a few feet away from when you zone in, near the little pond next to the bridge. There might be a few times you'll have to use the snare/zone trick. Best part about this is that there's virtually no warpage due to them flying. There's no pathing tricks either, unless you find one that I didn't, but I don't look for those anyway.

If you use Serpent vines even with extension, I'd expect for it to wear off unless you reapply. I guess I'd have to say i'm lazy and like the 12+ min length on Ensnare a lot better for this. Even snared, the red cons fly rather quickly so be on your toes.

It's indoors, so you have to go outside to refresh FoE and don't think you can mount up inside the mission. Oh, and the mission lasts 6 hours :texla:

~Tar'Kaiden of Leviathan

All DoN missions require faction to unlock (well, you can do a few of them by default), turning in the coins from successful missions improves faction and helps unlock more missions (as well as allowing progression missions). I checked, and I can't request Lost Commredes yet :(

I agree about ensnare, but when I'm fighting newer content (or mobs close to my level, or in very tight spaces), I always open with Mire Thorns, since it's less likely to be resisted, and then land ensnare. I still get the 10+ minute snare, but am less likely to have a full speed mob after me ;) Don't have Serpent vines yet. I think that's from the DoN progression quests, right? Unlikely to ever see that one.

Thanks again!

Tat

I two-box (on one box...) a druid-bard combo. The druid was a twink I'd had for years and decided about a year ago to put her on her own account. It's a tough playing situation, but once you get the hang of it...

Anyways, after looking at some of the data posted here about the effectiveness of HoR and SC, I'd been using it quite a bit on raids and groups. However, I really hadn't received any feedback nor doing any parsing myself. Today, I was in Relic/Arcstone running both characters and using HoC/SC for the first time while duoing. My bard is nothing special, but he does have all the avoidance/mitigation AAs. Still, if I had not been using HoC/SC, there was no way he was going to be able to tank like he did.

y point? I don't think enough people take at least a quick glance at the class boards to pick up a trick or two. It's too easy to blame your gear or whatever rather than do the corrective research to make the necessary adjustments to improve your game. A quick study here made all the difference today in what would have been an impossible situation for my duo to overcome.

y druid tore through the Karana's with a full set of Elder Spiritualists, so I originally come from the school of root/rot/quad. Now, I've turned into this grouping druid who tips the scales to my group's favor to win. I think that's what playing a druid is all about: giving the situation the necessary edge to turn the tide. If you chose a druid in order to have an incredible amount of flexibility in the EQ environment, you're on the right track.

Also, someone mentioned that the current "median" is at Qvic capabilities. I agree with that, and it's not because I'm flagged for it. My guild is wrapping up group hard DoDh, beginning DoDh raiding, and dove right in to PoR content. We're finding it challenging, yet doable with the correct skillsets. (My criticism of PoR is the high hps the mobs seem to have, but that's another debatable topic.) So, a notch below Qvic should be able to still handle the majority of the content in the game.

Finally, Sylvan Infusion was the best tradeskill combine a guildy did for me. Everyone should have it.

About 2 years ago I was considered an average druid. When guilds were breaking in to Qvic i had about 4k mana and 3.5k HP. The best thing to do as an average druid is just make your own groups. Get your name out there. If you can prove your self usefull in a group then you will start getting tells for groups or pick up raids.

With PoR there are a lot of Missions to get great upgrades for people whos equipment is lacking. (Like me). Some of them will take some time now that the drops have been pulled back some, but the tier 1 armor and many misson/quests in Relic and Eldar are 1 groupable for people who have "average" equipment.

The thing that will help the most is finding a group of people you can play with on a regular basis. Pick up groups often suck, and it is really helpful to know what to expect from your group mates.

I assume in this that I have below average equipment. Frankly people with worse gear than me at 70(or at least pre-PoR) are probally trying to have bad gear.

There is plently of armor and aa out there to help players handle newer content. Moving from 300 hitters to 1k hitters is going to be a shock for people, esp if they've never seen a mob put out that level of damage. This is amplified drastically if you where to move from 300 to 1800.


The real shock comes when you realize you have had agro from that 1200 hitting mob for 20 seconds and lived :)

this is a great thread, only one coment stood out to me that was totaly wrong....

/quote
Or cleric, since you will ALWAYS get groups that way
/end quote

this is very old thinking. since the very topic of this thread works for clerics as well. a under geared lvl 70 cleric has just as much trouble healing in rss or DoD than any other class that is over their head. a under geared cleric creats just as much of a burden as a under geared tank, druid, whatever when going to places that their gear cannot support. now granted, a cleric might be able to hide it better for a pull or two, but the first time they draw aggro and go splat in one round it is aparent. or go oom after 1 pull. they have the spells to heal, but not the pool or the regen or the AA to stay alive if get aggro.

this all IMO is a direct effect of MM's. so many take the easy way now and get to lvl 70 as fast as they can, never realy learning their class and skipping any chance to gear up. then wonder why they have such hard times.

M's are if used correct great for the game, but so many have used them in excess. they are in a sense lvl 40's in lvl 70 toons, with the gear that a lvl 40 had.

i am even seeing in the /lfg tool tanks listing, lfg but cannot tank.... am like wth!

DoD is helping to get non raiders gear, but they need to take it slow IMO.

this is a great thread, only one coment stood out to me that was totaly wrong....


Or cleric, since you will ALWAYS get groups that way




Clerics typically get the "benefit of the doubt" on the LFG catagory, I used to box a decently geared/65 level cleric, shaman and druid, but to get a grouip for my main (druid) I had to buy my way into the group with the cleric or shaman. Groups looking to do highend high exp content don't automatically think "we need a druid or we can't do it." I couldn't find the post you were refering back too though so maybe thats out of context.

/nod

How often do you hear of cleric complaining people in RS sent them a tell and asked thier mana pool? Not often, Clerics do usually get the benifit of the doubt.

Druids are in my opinion just as useful if not more useful in certain content than a cleric. However, I know so many people who say, you CAN NOT do that mission without a cleric. (I even know druids who say that.) Fenier and I like to prove those people wrong... Clerics IMO are overrated.

People who ask about mana pool used to make me laugh. It's the mana regen that ~really~ matters, pool size is really only a cushion (abeit, a nice cushion to have when **** hits the fan). Sustainability is something learned with practice and one of the most valuable skills a druid can have. Our heals are not the most mana efficient things in the world, but with Sylvan Infusion being a possibility and Karana's Renewal not completely without use yet, healing can be done sustainably quite a few areas assuming you have a good amount of mana regen. DPS is always able to be done sustainably because there's always a choice not to nuke/dot. Mana regen is a very very very nice thing to have (if you can pick up the Efficiency trial belt in MPG it's some serious <3 mana regen) and it's a lot more common now than it used to be. I remember trying to collect flowing thought gear outside of raiding and it was nearly impossible to get more than solstice earring and a couple other items that would give ya a total of FT5-7 total. The LDoN and DoN augs have made achieving foci and mana regen much easier since then and I'd encourage every casual druid to look at those options to help out. Big mana pool and no regen just means you go longer then you med longer. Big mana regen means you can keep on going longer and less med time.

ps. Naeyene: your new sig looks great!

That's what I meant by my original comment about clerics, they get more "benefit of the doubt" than any other class, except maybe shamen.

Tat

ps. Naeyene: your new sig looks great!

Yes, definately nice sig. The Druid magelo background is even better, I like the pally one too (just not as much.. maybe I'm bias).

....

Second what Dayuna said about mana regen.

One of the reasons I quit two years ago was the lack of ANY way to improve my kit if I didn't raid. FT was a HUGE part of this. Other than the 8th shawl, EotS earring and Boots of Slime, that was pretty much it. Now there are tons of ways to add FT, and it does make a huge difference, even when soloing.

I have added FT9 since returning 6 months ago, and already have the plan to get to FT20 (4 more), along with the necessary AA's, of course. And none of it took raiding. Lots of other upgrades also available now, all through grouping, soloing, and tradeskills/bazaar. There really are LOTS more possibilties for the casual player now.

Tat

ps. Naeyene: your new sig looks great!
Thanks Dayuna & Mordien! =)

P.S. Much <3 for derailing Fen's thread... /snicker =P

Indeed it is relatively easy to reach ft20 without any raiding at all. Mana preservation, damage and ehaling focus are all fairly easy to come by. With PoR all it takes is a single group and a willingness to camp the pieces you need.



People who ask about mana pool used to make me laugh. It's the mana regen that ~really~ matters, pool size is really only a cushion (abeit, a nice cushion to have when **** hits the fan). Sustainability is something learned with practice and one of the most valuable skills a druid can have. Our heals are not the most mana efficient things in the world, but with Sylvan Infusion being a possibility and Karana's Renewal not completely without use yet, healing can be done sustainably quite a few areas assuming you have a good amount of mana regen. DPS is always able to be done sustainably because there's always a choice not to nuke/dot. Mana regen is a very very very nice thing to have (if you can pick up the Efficiency trial belt in MPG it's some serious <3 mana regen) and it's a lot more common now than it used to be. I remember trying to collect flowing thought gear outside of raiding and it was nearly impossible to get more than solstice earring and a couple other items that would give ya a total of FT5-7 total. The LDoN and DoN augs have made achieving foci and mana regen much easier since then and I'd encourage every casual druid to look at those options to help out. Big mana pool and no regen just means you go longer then you med longer. Big mana regen means you can keep on going longer and less med time.

ps. Naeyene: your new sig looks great!

Eventually how I may handle tells about mana is to stop updating my magelo and lie. /shrug.

Another personal favorite is: you can't do x y or z without an Enchanter. I try and set out to prove those people wrong as often as possible.

...you can't do x y or z without an Enchanter. I try and set out to prove those people wrong as often as possible.

Shaman + bard = win

Shaman + bard = win

We bypass the shaman too... Bard + Beastlord for our non-enchanter groups. (Or if its undead... Just take Juniper's necro =P) Bleh on chanters... :shuffle:

I would make love to your sig.

I would make love to your sig.

Envy Fenier, then, 'cos he gets to :halo:

http://www.cosgan.de/images/midi/frech/a015.gif

:devil-lau

Nutty cazic druids =p