Well... Here's one to make an example of! (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12159118/) Absolutely amazing. What on earth made him think what he was doing was right?

Oh, he knew it wasn't.

That was probably some of the attraction too.

For all the failings of the prison system in NZ, one of the best results is obtained, in a non-state sanctioned way of course, for guys like this.

They usually get locked up alongside folks bearing a striking resemblance to "Jake the Mus" from Once Were Warriors. This tends to provide plenty of disincentive to reoffend, and in some cases actually removes the ability to reoffend.

Gotta love vigilante, honor-amongst-criminals, justice.

Took some work.

'Jake the Mus' was played by the guy who was the master clone in Star Wars, the Fett 'dad'.

Good work :) The reference was more to the charachter, though - you'd really get it if you'd seen the movie.

And I recommend it - a great drama, and a great example of pre-LOTR NZ cinema. Not for the squeamish, it's pretty gritty, and very accurate.

NZ cinema?

Hehehe.

All because Sam Raimi and Bruce Campbell made Evil Dead.

For all the failings of the prison system in NZ, one of the best results is obtained, in a non-state sanctioned way of course, for guys like this.

A Maori friend of mine told me sexual predation and incest were rampant amongst the Maori in NZ, or at least on the North Island. She may have been exagerrating, though.

They usually get locked up alongside folks bearing a striking resemblance to "Jake the Mus" from Once Were Warriors. This tends to provide plenty of disincentive to reoffend, and in some cases actually removes the ability to reoffend.

Gotta love vigilante, honor-amongst-criminals, justice.

Child molesters generally fare poorly in US prisons, as well. Its still a very taboo crime, especially considering a disproportionate number of criminals in our prisons were victims of child molestation themselves, in their youth.

You know sad thing is, this is the second Homeland Security official to be busted within a 30 day time period, for pretty much the same thing. They showed a news sting on MSNBC recently with help from law enforcement officials and the people from perverted justice, and picked up a younger guy in his 30's. Pretty much to get into homeland security and other such departments you gotta have a nearly spotless record. Being the ages of these guys in particular especially the 55 year old official makes you wonder, hey this probably isn't the first time out on these guys. Stuff like this gives an extreme amount of discrediblity to such an organization especially considering the amount of time this organization has been around, what 3-4 years now.

Might be interesting seeing the news articles on such stuff coming up in a few days, when the media picks up on the other dude and the short time period that these officials have been picked up in. Kinda makes it look like all the Transportation Security Agency and Department of Homeland Security just sits around in their offices looking at ****** ****.

I don't know the details of what goes on in background investigations. Actually, I have an idea because I have to have one done on me every so often for my clearance. However, it is clear to me from stories like this and the amount of security breaches we have to read about on a monthly basis that the system just isn't working as intended. I suspect, being done by humans with all their failings, it is riddled with as many lies on security applications as people's resumes are to get into such positions. The sheer amount of investigation to do for each individual which increases exponentially for higher levels of security is overwhelming already without adding in that you need to do thousands of these per year.

On the other hand, this is only two out of a large number of people. I wouldn't write them all off because of these guys. This doesn't excuse it, it only attempts to explain why it might happen. There is room for improvement.

Might be interesting seeing the news articles on such stuff coming up in a few days, when the media picks up on the other dude and the short time period that these officials have been picked up in. Kinda makes it look like all the Transportation Security Agency and Department of Homeland Security just sits around in their offices looking at ****** ****.

That's akin to saying that because we read about monthly security breeches such as attempting to sell corporate and state secrets to foreign agencies, then all of us are spies. Which we aren't, that's just rediculous. I can see how one would get the idea, being exposed to all the bad news and none of the good news. I mean, nobody tells us how many people DIDN'T try to sell state secrets last month. I suppose, however, there are a subset of people who believe everyone is guilty and its just a matter of time before they are caught. That's a life philosophy and a different subject of discussion.

As the Bush administration has worked things already I can envision the following statement in a staff meeting: "Hey! We've subpoened all this info to support the "internet child ****ography" law we want to get the courts to reinstate, but we can't seem to grab the attention of the voters. If we can get some high profiles playing in our own yard, people will get angry and DEMAND a law and do our work for us! Who wants to take the fall? And remember... if I don't get a volunteer, I'm gonna MAKE one.":elfbiggri

Child molesters generally fare poorly in US prisons, as well. Its still a very taboo crime, especially considering a disproportionate number of criminals in our prisons were victims of child molestation themselves, in their youth.

Not to mention that an awful lot of the men in prison have chidren of their own.

As the Bush administration has worked things already I can envision the following statement in a staff meeting: "Hey! We've subpoened all this info to support the "internet child ****ography" law we want to get the courts to reinstate, but we can't seem to grab the attention of the voters. If we can get some high profiles playing in our own yard, people will get angry and DEMAND a law and do our work for us! Who wants to take the fall? And remember... if I don't get a volunteer, I'm gonna MAKE one.":elfbiggri

LOL... put this on a spiffy website and Swiftfox will be quoting it back to us :) .

Here's a question - you see criminals in US tv-law get off because of "entrapment". Where is the line drawn over there? In this kind of case, would the defence have an opportunity to argue that their man was entrapped, and unfairly lured, into commiting these crimes?

Here's a question - you see criminals in US tv-law get off because of "entrapment". Where is the line drawn over there? In this kind of case, would the defence have an opportunity to argue that their man was entrapped, and unfairly lured, into commiting these crimes?

I think that would only be true if the 'girl' was the one starting things. Like the initial contact, the one suggesting getting **** or getting web cams, etc.

Yeah I agree. And on the internet, everything is recorded... so it would be tough to claim and win "entrapment" with a judge or jury if it really was not.

And on the internet, everything is recorded... so it would be tough to claim and win "entrapment" with a judge or jury if it really was not.


One defence is to claim that someone else was using the computer. It doesn't work so well once you've sent off your picture though :).

Considering how many unsecured wireless routers there are, it is amazing that no one is using that as a defense.

There are plenty of hotspots where I can get onto the Internet with complete anonymity.

And if you have an unsecured wireless router, anyone could get onto the Internet, using your specific IP addys, if they wished. It would be an interesting defense, if someone sees this, post a link.

Here's a question - you see criminals in US tv-law get off because of "entrapment". Where is the line drawn over there? In this kind of case, would the defence have an opportunity to argue that their man was entrapped, and unfairly lured, into commiting these crimes?

As far as I understand it, entrapment has all but vanished in the United States. I know, for instance, its no longer valid in Florida.

However, assuming there there is federal entrapment rules still, it would not be entrapment if the agent simply pretended to be a 14 year old girl and did not suggest sexual conduct to the defendant.

If the defendant made the first move to cross from legal to illegal conduct, and the agent was simply pretending to not be a law enforment official, it isnt entrapment. When that official makes the first move, however (perhaps by making sexual statements in their chat, for instance) that would be the line for entrapment. So I understand it, anyways.

The line has been very hazy at times though and I'm not sure what the case law on the issue is.

I think that by and large, law enforcement has gotten better at avoiding entrapment, probably because the conditions for entrapment have been better defined by the courts.

Still, on occassion they go too far, as in this example (http://partners.nytimes.com/library/tech/00/07/cyber/cyberlaw/07law.html).