I was listening to the pod-cast thingy EQ did and they mentioned casters getting some changes. Part of it having to do with dextarity and such. They mentioned druids being able to dish more dmg and such.

Is this something that has already been implemented (Dawnstrike)?

Does any one have a specific link that goes in to more detail about this?

I was listening to the pod-cast thingy EQ did and they mentioned casters getting some changes. Part of it having to do with dextarity and such. They mentioned druids being able to dish more dmg and such.

Is this something that has already been implemented (Dawnstrike)?

Does any one have a specific link that goes in to more detail about this?

I know stances were mentioned before, a offensive or defensive stance that would affect your spells, but I think that kinda washed out.

I wouldnt be surprised if dawnstrike was supposed to be the "solution" to druid DPS...

Dawnstrike is not an DPS upgrade over Sol Strike.

Dawnstrike will proc once in 4 casts, for an increase average of 50%.
So, 2125 x 3 = 6375, plus the one which is increased by 50 percent (2125 x 1.5) for 3187.5 for a total of 9562.5 Total Damage in 35.5 seconds or 269.36 DPS, at the cost of 1928 mana.

Sol Strike x4 is 8804 Damage in 32.5 seconds for a total DPS of 270.89 at the cost of 1976 mana.

They are very close, but Sol Strike is more dps then Dawnstrike when the Fire of Dawn proc is averaged across a spread of damage.

-Fenier

To me, 9562.5 damage for 1928 mana sure looks like an upgrade over 8804 damage for 1976 damage. :)

I am not arguing that point. The point is, Dawnstrike takes longer to cast, so the DPS value is actually lower becuase you spend longer casting.

-Fenier

This is the pod cast i was referring to: http://eqplayers.station.sony.com/news_article.vm?id=50163

One thing to consider is that spell haste brings the cast+recast times closer together.

Unhasted:
Solstice Strike: 6.25+2.25=8.5 seconds
Dawnstrike: 7+2.25 = 9.25 seconds
Dawnstrike takes about 9% longer.

With 43% spell haste (23% focus, 10% Quick Damage 3, 10% Devotion):
Solstice Strike: 3.56+2.25=5.81 seconds
Dawnstrike: 3.99+2.25=6.24 seconds
Dawnstrike takes a little over 7% longer.

Using the raw damage numbers of 8804 in 4 casts (Solstice Strike) and 9562.5 (Dawnstrike), since the ratio between the two will generally stay constant (ignoring the effect of bards):

Unhasted:
Solstice Strike: 8804/(8.5*4)=8804/34=258.9 dps
Dawnstrike: 9562.5/(9.25*4)=9562.5/37=258.4 dps

With 43% spell haste:
Solstice Strike: 8804/(5.81*4)=8804/23.24=378.8 dps
Dawnstrike: 9562.5/(6.24*4)=9562.5/24.96=383.1 dps

I don't dispute your findings, but do we really want to factor in Cleric Spell Haste when determining which of our spells is more dps? I can see Item focus, and Quick Damage since these do not require another class (tho factoring in a 23% item focus is pretty hard to do considering how hard the 23% to 70 focus is to obtain). I would say, we could average that most druids would have at least Spell Haste V and go from there if we use item focuses at all since it is pretty much middle ground.

That aside, even at 43% focus its a less then 5 point differance, that is hardly a strong case to having solved Druid DPS issues.

But that leaves the question, should we really be required to have 43% determinal haste to see a DPS increase over Sol Strike which is at current 3 expansions old.

Personally, I would go with no.

-Fenier

I was just disputing the claim that Solstice Strike is better for dps than Dawnstrike (in the absence of a bard). :)

Even with the baseline Spell Haste V and Quick Damage 3 (for a combined spell haste of 25%), Dawnstrike should still have a slight edge.

I was listening to the pod-cast thingy EQ did and they mentioned casters getting some changes. Part of it having to do with dextarity and such. They mentioned druids being able to dish more dmg and such.

Is this something that has already been implemented (Dawnstrike)?

Does any one have a specific link that goes in to more detail about this?


I just listened to the pod cast you linked. The only thing I heard them talk about was the progression server. Perhaps you confused the 2nd or 3rd parts as those were for different games (EQOA and EQ2, respectively) in which class balance may have been discussed.

Someone a few months ago said "dawnstrike usually procs about 1 out of every 4 casts." Don't see how the 1-out-of-4 proc guess can be used as the rule of thumb.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=8012

25 out of 100 = 1 out of 4

As a note... The notes on druid damage increases were being made by the EQ Online Adventures person. The mention has nothing to do with EQ1.

Damn... and here i already creamed in my pance.

Dawnstrike is a laugh. The concept is nice, shame it doesn't work in our favor. I understand druids like to use it for 'fun' (even though that concept eludes me more often than not), ooh look sparklies ! ooh look a proc, maybe I will crit even higher now ! But that's about it. Also it is beyond me why anyone would want to use Dawnstrike over Solstice when it comes to casting speed.. not like our nukes are fast-casting to begin with and you get nothing in reward for it.

I use ancient glacier and tempest wind for efficiency, and solstice if cold won't land. I prefer to toss in wasp swarm in the mix as well, but since we druids don't have means to lower our aggro besides the obvious punt-to-bind, I will stick to nukes on raids at least.

I'm not sure why you would ever use Solstice Strike when you're not grouped with a bard. Dawnstrike does at least as much damage on average and is quite a bit more mana efficient (for times when cold nukes won't do).

I'm not sure why you would ever use Solstice Strike when you're not grouped with a bard. Dawnstrike does at least as much damage on average and is quite a bit more mana efficient (for times when cold nukes won't do).

eh? i don't want to argue the point too much because, really, the diff between the two is a wash, but this is outright false.

this shows them with applicable anguish level foci and all aa:

<table border = '1' class = 'sortable' id = 'druidNeutralNukes'><tr><th>level</th><th>spell</th><th>cast</th><th>adj cast</th><th>recast</th><th>total cast</th><th>mana</th><th>min mana</th><th>avg mana</th><th>base dmg</th><th>max dmg</th><th>avg dmg</th><th>max crit</th><th>avg crit</th><th>mps</th><th>dpm</th><th>dps</th><th>d/m/s</th><th></th><th>time</th><th>casts</th><th>crits</th><th>dmg</th><th>mps</th><th>dpm</th><th>dps</th><th>d/m/s</th></tr><tr><td>70</td><td nowrap bgcolor='#f08060'>Dawnstrike</td><td>7.00</td><td>4.69</td><td>2.25<td>6.94</td><td>482</td><td>338</td><td>386</td><td>2125</td><td>3081</td><td>2607</td><td>5737</td><td>5264</td><td class='blue'>55.62</td><td class='purple'>6.75</td><td class='red'>375.65</td><td class='green'>97.32%</td><td bgcolor='black'>&nbsp;</td><td>326.18</td><td>47</td><td>9</td><td>146442</td><td class='blue'>49.70</td><td class='purple'>9.03</td><td class='red'>448.96</td><td class='green'>130.16%</td></tr><td>69</td><td nowrap bgcolor='#f08060'>Solstice Strike</td><td>6.25</td><td>4.19</td><td>2.25<td>6.44</td><td>494</td><td>346</td><td>396</td><td>2201</td><td>3191</td><td>2701</td><td>5942</td><td>5452</td><td class='blue'>61.51</td><td class='purple'>6.82</td><td class='red'>419.57</td><td class='green'>105.95%</td><td bgcolor='black'>&nbsp;</td><td>276.81</td><td>43</td><td>8</td><td>138151</td><td class='blue'>55.79</td><td class='purple'>8.95</td><td class='red'>499.08</td><td class='green'>138.96%</td></tr></table>

d/m/s means dmg per mana per second, better known as: efficiency.

My parse (which, admittedly, is a little over half the length of yours) shows otherwise.

http://eq.forums.thedruidsgrove.org/showthread.php?p=202037#post202037

Dawnstrike: 496.3 DPS, 12.56 DPM, 0.0701 d/(m*s)
Solstice Strike: 432.8 DPS, 10.02 DPM, 0.0557 d/(m*s)

I think it would be fair to say with our two parses combined, the results are inconclusive, and further parsing is needed?

By the way, damage per mana per second (or equivalently, damage per second per mana) is an artificial construct. It is not the definition of "efficiency", although it may be useful for estimating the relative value of nukes for general purpose use.

Edit: Aha! I found out why our numbers disagree. Your chart completely ignores the Fire of Dawn autocast. Factor that in and you should see that Dawnstrike has a bit of an edge over Solstice Strike.

Edit 2: I realized that I forgot to factor out the 26 mana/tick standing regen over the duration of the parse. Taking that into account (increasing the mana cost of both by 780) I get:
Dawnstrike: 496.3 DPS, 11.31 DPM, 0.0702 d/(m*s)
Solstice Strike: 432.8 DPS, 9.106 DPM, 0.0506 d/(m*s)