Hello,

according to the patch message:

"*** NPCs ***
- Many NPCs in zones released prior to Planes of Power have been modified. The most notable difference will be an increase in health and a decrease in the AC of the creatures."

NPC´s in many Pre Pop zones have more HP now, but less AC.

I was in Chardok yesterday and killed Observer Aq`touz for probably the 100th time.

I was rather surprised to see his max hit went from 175 to 330! He had a lot of minimum hits though, but his HP was much higher then before, too. Overall his DPS seemed to be much higher then before because I ended the fight at 65% while I usually stay at 90 - 95%.

I then killed some mobs in Sirens Grotto and things were as before there.

A necro friend told me that mobs in the Overthere seemed to hit much harder then before and about 75% of his spells did not stick.

I read somewhere that the mob´s resists were changed too.

This seems to be a nerf for soloing people and a strong promotion for regular groups with a tank and healer.

The higher HP will slow down Root/Rotters, kiters, and even kite groups. It will help mellee heavy gfroups because the mob´s AC was nerfed.

I do not really understand the changes Sony made here in this late state of the game. I enjoy old content and still play a lot in zones before POP.

Perhaps this is part of the try to make mellees more worthwhile on the combine server? People there complained that casters had gotten huge upgrades over the last few years (less mana for DD´s and dots, higher nukes, etc).

If that is true I would be very angry that the changes were not only made on the progression servers, but went life on all servers.

I would not mind so much if they would up the exp you get for these mobs on steroids.

I often think SOE catched the Dungeon and Dragons Gamemaster desease ... it was a widespread infection when pen and pencil rolps were common.

I mean the twisted mindset when a GM is not playing a game for the player's fun but instead against the players .. to make the game "right"

So if a player is killing lotsa mobs, feeling powerful and thus having fun .... NERF. If a player is doing something in a way the GM didnt envision, change the game so the mobs will kill him. He is not supposed to do that. =bossy mindset.

Side effect is that all the diversity that used to be in the game is going away imo .. I dont see (or rarely see) bards swarmkiting, druids kiting and charmkiting, encs charming, 2-3 people groups to join on the spot, trains going around and people screaming TRAAAAAAIIIN .. /ooc to were??? *splat*. Lol i am still so proud of the time when i solo killed charmkiting a train of hoppers which came out of hopper cave at FAR too low level i was supposed to =)

Instead the "right" way to play the game is to sit in pok forming a group (which takes hours sometimes), go to the mission/camp, kill lots, come back. Love missions, dont mistake me .. but i wish some of the quick-and easy (to get groups or to do something useful) old gameplay would be there still. Remember the perma-camped sarnak castle with people joining and leaving the whole time? =)

Mybe are all things that are not supposed to happen at high level, but they were giving color and character to zones imo. But i am a soloer/pickup group addict, so most people play a different game now =)

The spell revamp last year mostly increased spell power across the board. This change was ment to restore the balance between mob and player power in the lower game spectirum.

To Droda:

Devs adjust the game according to what they think the game needs to remain a long lasting game, this often times - does not - mean they agree with players, or give in to their complaints.

business is business i know ..
but i am an old fart druid and love mumbling about the good old times =)

The spell revamp last year mostly increased spell power across the board. This change was ment to restore the balance between mob and player power in the lower game spectirum.

Then there really wasn't much of a point in beefing up the spells, was there? The whole point of the revamp was to balance.


To Droda:

Devs adjust the game according to what they think the game needs to remain a long lasting game, this often times - does not - mean they agree with players, or give in to their complaints.
Fenier, try not to take this too badly, but... dude, your attitude is seriously coming off as high and mighty, holier than thou, "I know better" lately. Sometimes people just wanna bitch. Sometimes they are just stating their opinion. You don't have to call everyone out and consider every statement an argument. Yes, for a while this board got seriously depressing listening to everyone bitch all the time. It is starting to tip in the other direction now.

You don't have to stand up for Sony on every point. Yeah, devs "try" to do what is best. But they don't always accomplish it. Remember GoD release? Remember copy and paste errors across itemization? Remember druids before all the bitching pumped up the heal power?

Relax, man.

Then there really wasn't much of a point in beefing up the spells, was there? The whole point of the revamp was to balance.

Posted by Maddoc:

Hey everyone,

In the last few years, much has changed in the world of EverQuest, which is a great thing for all of us -- It's what keeps us all interested in the game and enjoying the time we spent playing.

In developing a server like this, we have to be mindful and aware of those changes such that we can make an informed decision on what course of action to take when addressing any issues as they come up. As you might imagine, there are years worth of content to be aware of, enough so that some of the changes require a lot of time.

The change that I'm about to explain makes huge strides towards dealing with what you guys feel is one of the biggest issues to overcome for this server. This same change is also why I've been largely unavailable for the last week or two. The change is not small, affecting a great portion of EverQuest and it's NPC's, nor is the change to be taken lightly, needing as much testing time as you guys are able to muster. If you have a character and haven't participated in beta for a week or two, I'd encourage you to please log in and test everything out.

With that said, the changes that have been made are going to affect a number of NPC attributes in an effort to address the power disparity between melee-classes and caster-classes in the early stages of progression on these servers. So, without further ado...

* NPC Health - This has been increased on average for most NPC's.
* NPC Armor Class - This has been reduced on average for most NPC's.
* NPC Overall DPS - The overall dps done by NPC's has been reduced slightly on average for most NPC's.
o NPC Damage - This has been reduced on average for most NPC's.
o NPC Melee Speed - This has been reduced slightly (meaning they hit faster than previously) on some NPC's, though most will be roughly the same.
* NPC Resists - This remains largely unchanged, staying the same on average for most NPC's.

* NPC Effective Spellcasting Level - In the last year or so, PC spells got a pretty big boost in power, which means that NPC's also got a pretty good sized boost in power as well. I think the best way to address this is to get a means to specify an NPC's spellcasting-level independent of it's actual level.

As an example, this means that I can now tell a level 50 NPC to only cast level 42 and lower spells, without changing the NPC's level at all. With this functionality, I can reduce the spellcasting power of the NPC's without reducing anything else. With this change, you should see a very noticeable change in the NPC's spellcasting power, particularly in the level 25 to 40 range.

* DISCLAIMER : Given the nature of these changes, I'm speaking of an 'average', so there will be situations where an NPC or small group of NPC's that now resist more now than they did previously, likewise you will see situations where an NPC or small group of NPC's will resist less now than they did previously. This applies to all of the information listed above.

I've made these adjustments to about 70% of the NPC's so far and that data will be hitting the server this afternoon. There are still some NPC's that have not been fully converted yet, so I'll post when those are done as well.

There's one more thing that I have on my plate to do to address some of the melee concerns (that I'm sure will be posted in this thread), so stay tuned and please throw as much testing as you can at this change."

The changes where also applied to the live servers. My statement was niether supportive, nor against these changes, the comment was made in effort to explain why the changes took place - based on the information provided to us as shown above.

You don't have to stand up for Sony on every point. Yeah, devs "try" to do what is best. But they don't always accomplish it. Remember GoD release? Remember copy and paste errors across itemization? Remember druids before all the bitching pumped up the heal power?

My comments to Droda where based on the following quote:

I often think SOE catched the Dungeon and Dragons Gamemaster desease ... it was a widespread infection when pen and pencil rolps were common.

I mean the twisted mindset when a GM is not playing a game for the player's fun but instead against the players .. to make the game "right"

So if a player is killing lotsa mobs, feeling powerful and thus having fun .... NERF. If a player is doing something in a way the GM didnt envision, change the game so the mobs will kill him. He is not supposed to do that. =bossy mindset.

Ocassionally, this is true. The monk AC nerf was a good example of this. The rollback, was a good example of this. I tend to agree with Sony on those points which I can logically see benifiting the game as a whole. The key word there is logically.

There are times, when I am going wtf when fighting something (Death Comes Swiftly boss) or when I am totally perplexed by a given change (restoring Monk AC, but not beastlord).

Sony has done some things right however also, The changes to The Grey and AC where I believe nessercary. Certain changes to our healing and class balance I believe where well done. I think they slack and should finish, and my views may tend to differ from others on how that is done, but I would like to think that I am not so wrapped up in a given class that I ignore the effects on the game in general.

I do however, feel that even if we dislike Sony, we should still make an effort to get along with them, because we are going to be dealing with them on a prolonged basis as long as our accounts are active. I don't believe that Sony is "out to get us" or "make our lives difficult" as much as they are trying to ensure a level playing field. This doesn't always work, they sometimes screw upbadly, but often times (not always) make good for it in the end.

If you look for the negative hard enough, you will find it. You may come up with solid (or stupid) reasons for being negative. Sometimes, its deserved, and yet - sometimes, I feel people are being harsh becuase they don't get their way. If you need to vent, by all means, but venting that the company is some evil corperate setup doesn't go very far toward getting things changed, nor getting things which need fixed - fixed.

-Fenier

HAHA, i was getting ready to post that quote, and this:
Some NPCs are likely hitting for more and others for less than before the patch. The change involved switching old world NPCs over to newer systems. Old NPCs all had hand-set values, which led to a lot of variance from NPC to NPC even within the same level range due to different designers making different NPCs (the dreaded "under con"). It also made it very difficult to tune since each individual NPC has to be tracked down and changed if you decide a certain range of NPCs needs to be adjusted.

Under the newer system, NPCs of the same level start with the same baseline values and modify from there based on the NPCs capabilities and class (warriors have more hps, giants hit slower and harder, werewolves are vulnerable to fire, golems have low intelligence, etc.) so depending on what the NPC was set at before, it may have gained or lost damage dealing capabilities in the conversion or it may be dealing similar damage, but in a different fashion (hitting harder, but slower for instance).

This only affected NPCs who weren't already on the new system, which is basically NPCs from Original EQ, Kunark, Velious, and Luclin. It was also limited mainly to NPCs below level 50 and excluded event NPCs, which have to be tuned case by case regardless.

If you come across any particular NPC that seems to be way out of line compared to other NPCs of the same level around it, feel free to call it out and I'll go have a look. I'll just need the zone and the full name of the NPC to find it.

Rashere

Sounds like they moved the old world stuff to a template system.

Thats kinda cool, even if it should have been done that way from the start.

I am glad they are making Eq more consisant.

I feel exactly the opposite. Making all mobs more closely fit a template for their level reduces the flavor of the game. I suppose the old world stuff could have used a little beefing up to stand up to modern players and equipment, but the old stuff was the way it was for a reason. Blue to 50 outdoor mobs like spectres and giants hit harder than indoor mobs like frogs in guk, and guk frogs had fewer HP also. HP varied by mob class, and there were lots of special mobs like frenzies that apparently got stamped with the cookie cutter mold now.

While I enjoyed the old game, I'm not going back and relevelling again on the progressive server. I haven't even levelled an alt since kunark days, so I guess I'm going to totally lose touch with the sub-50 world. Nothing that I remember from when I did it is going to be relevent anymore I guess.

1) I don't believe that Sony is "out to get us" or "make our lives difficult" as much as they are trying to ensure a level playing field. This doesn't always work, they sometimes screw upbadly, but often times (not always) make good for it in the end.

2) ... I feel people are being harsh becuase they don't get their way...

-Fenier

1) I am a soloing druid, i never have the time to raid, most often i play in chunks of 20mins-1 hour at a time before camping. I am forced now to play in chunks of 3-5 hours to accomplish something, and this can seriously affect my real life. Regular raiding was never an option for me, now my grouping progression is endangered too. Soloing or duoing i can do only some xp, nothing else while in the old time i could duo witha friend entire quests.

2) From my point of view and for my way of playing (and for whoever used to play like i did, which i believe are mostly gone away forever from EQ) the game has been TOTALLY SCREWED, and particularly for us druids, as most of our soloing abilities have been taken out nerfing one class or the other (snare kite nerf(summon,unsnareable)->(necros,druids), charm kite nerf->(encs,druids).
I just cant see why SOE decided to kill my playing style entirely.. why is SOE gaining from it? why making the game a almost raid-only game should be beneficial to the game itself? By raid-only i mean that grouping or soloing there is NO way you can have access to near-top level spells,gear and focuses,whatever the difficulty of the single-group content. i dont see it. I have been told that in a raiding guild in 2 weeks one char can be completely reequipped to near-top gear... while years of grouping dont even come close. Is this right? i doubt. Is soe increasing the player base in that way? Allow me to be doubtful.

My opinion, Fenier you dont have to agree.. as i can reasonably guess u dont (we never agree on anything =). But please respect my opinions.

3) as the population under 50 on old servers is close to none, and groups are VERY hard to find, bumping up the old mobs making soloing more difficult and less rewarding is pretty damn favoring twinks against the rare true new players.

Fenier, you shouldnt derail this thread only because you dislike my posts =)

1) I am a soloing druid, i never have the time to raid, most often i play in chunks of 20mins-1 hour at a time before camping. I am forced now to play in chunks of 3-5 hours to accomplish something, and this can seriously affect my real life. Regular raiding was never an option for me, now my grouping progression is endangered too. Soloing or duoing i can do only some xp, nothing else while in the old time i could duo witha friend entire quests.

What is good for 1 player is not necessarily good for the game. Everquest is designed to be a very invloved game that takes a lot of time. I've yet to hear any developer say differently.

Fenier, you shouldnt derail this thread only because you dislike my posts =)
He points out serious flaws in your arguements. I believe that is more than enough reason for him to post.

here comes Fenier's alt =)

What is good for 1 player is not necessarily good for the game.

true, but
you are basically saying that because i cant raid i should not play this game.
your opinion, but in many many occasions you demonstrated to be the most bossy of all.
I pay as well .. but i am NOT well served.

Everquest is designed to be a very invloved game that takes a lot of time. I've yet to hear any developer say differently.


NOW is designed like that.
but it was NOT that way when it started.
i.e for ME the game has been screwed (and for all the people who left the game i guess)

He points out serious flaws in your arguements. I believe that is more than enough reason for him to post.

??????? where? what??? points?
cant see any points..

he even says that "occasionaly what i say can be true"

So what are the logical flaws?

The problems I see with beefing up pre-pop mobs is there was already an expectation. So now SOE has changed the expectation and folks must now "re-learn" encounters but again this is flawed.

What about the folks that only have up to luclin? Why should they "suffer" in the sense that they don't have access to the same uber PoP and beyond gear, augs, etc? So the casters in pre-pop era have a little more punch but they've had this extra "punch" for what, 18months 2-years?

If I ever get to the point of raiding Ssra / emp etc and such (again), if these mobs hit harder then they did before, and if the expectation is now either "seemingly" required post-pop gear and/or more raid members to take out a mob, this change was wrong IMHO, perhaps the semi-uber or uber-twink guilds can comment on some of the boss mob difficulty now.

There are few financial reasons as to why SoE would do this IMHO, none really come to mind though.

No one has responded to the questions:
- Why change what has been in place for so many months?
- What tangable benefit does this have towards the player base?
- Who drove this change?
- What is the dev's expected result of the change?

At the same time you can toss out all the data in Alla re: mobs in pre-pop eras because that data is all wrong now.

Was the intent to somehow compensate for the mudflation that they introduce in every expansion?

A year from now, when hp100 and mana100 augs are "common" and bazaar bought, is that orc_pawn_01 going to hit for 50?

To the devs, stop screwing with old world stuff, what is done is done, you want to "develop" do so in a new sand box (new expansion) dont' go back to mobs 6 years old and "beef them up". (but to be a bit of a hypocrit I'll have to say I think that "call for help" thing by mobs is cool, but this was an ADDITION, not a change of existing npcs per-say, etc).

/ramble off

Luckily, Dorda we have two servers full of untwinked toons testing the new content. As the GMs have stated, if any mob seems broken, contact them and they will look at it. All you need is the mob's name and zone. This is a great opportunity for you to make a list and send it in. Personally, I think these changes were needed just as badly as zone revamps, and other modernising features they have put in. EQ is an old, creaky game, I shudder to think what the code looks like behind the scenes. While these first few weeks after the patch are likely to be troubled, in the long run, tidying things up will be worth it imo.

Some of the changes (like detatching spell casting level from mob level) allow for quite a bit of individuality among mobs. I always thought it was sort of unfair that I can take down a red mob with my spells, while a dark blue mob's low level spells just bounce off me or maybe give me a scratch.

I am uncertain why you feel these changes deny a casual player access to one groupable high level gear. Don't these changes affect pre-PoP mobs? IMO Omens of War and subsequent expansions have offered quite decent gear that is one groupable, and even duoable. I raid, but some of my slots are still filled with stuff I got on my own, because it is either better than what I would get from a raid, or because it is such a small difference that it is better to keep it, and avoid being greedy with raid drops.

Finally, I don't see Fenier's post as a derail, but rather an on topic reply. You asked for respect, but then called Dayuna "Fenier's alt," which seemed somewhat disrespectful to me.

BTW, although I raid now, I spent 4 years playing the game as a casual player, mostly soloing or duoing, so I do understand that the game has gotten harder for soloers. Some of the new AAs and spells have helped that a lot at 70 but for low level druids, the game is still not set up for soloing, which I think is a real loss. I just don't see how these new changes make that particularly worse. They will mean some adjustment, and relearning some camps. But that is a temporary thing, and imo part of the adventure.

These changes are silly. Sure, it's a good thought on paper, but in practice it's just going to force more people to become indepant boxers - which will hurt the situations they're trying to fix more than help it.

Silxie, and perhaps I've just not read it clearly so I understand, are you saying the new servers are not true "old school" but are new and improved buffed up mob in old world zones type servers?

If that is the case, time will tell if my concerns are just, perhaps I've spoken far too soon to make good judgement on this "upgrade".

here comes Fenier's alt =)



true, but
you are basically saying that because i cant raid i should not play this game.
your opinion, but in many many occasions you demonstrated to be the most bossy of all.
I pay as well .. but i am NOT well served.

NOW is designed like that.
but it was NOT that way when it started.
i.e for ME the game has been screwed (and for all the people who left the game i guess)
a) You don't have to raid to play the game, I've never said that or even implied it.
b) The game is not required to serve every single player's ideal. It is presented as-is and players are invited to carve out their own niche of fun and enjoyment. If you want content that takes 20-60 minutes soloing, there are solo spots available now, just like there were back then.
c) If you do not enjoy what the game has become, then I'm sorry. The fact is, this is how the game works now. What it used to be is not how it is. Should you decide it isn't worth $15/month there are other options available with better solo/group content. If you decide that you can get enough enjoyment out of the game like it is, then by all means continue to enjoy the game.

??????? where? what??? points?
cant see any points..

he even says that "occasionaly what i say can be true"

So what are the logical flaws?
I often think SOE catched the Dungeon and Dragons Gamemaster desease ... it was a widespread infection when pen and pencil rolps were common.

I mean the twisted mindset when a GM is not playing a game for the player's fun but instead against the players .. to make the game "right"

So if a player is killing lotsa mobs, feeling powerful and thus having fun .... NERF. If a player is doing something in a way the GM didnt envision, change the game so the mobs will kill him. He is not supposed to do that. =bossy mindset.
^ He even quoted the points he was refuting, in part or in whole. I'm hardly Fenier's alt, but I do find much of what he has to say very reasonable and thought out, whereas I see you rambling about stuff that you feel is a personal nerf designed to harm you with very little backing.

Back on topic:
It's a change, it'll require some adjustment. I don't think it will adversly affect the game as a whole. The primary thing they are counteracting now is the effects of shifting spells around and giving them a boost. They found that over time, there was an advantage to being a caster that was out of balance. With enough data to confirm this they most likely started working out how to do accomplish balance again. I don't know for sure, but those are what I believe happened. Is it a nerf to casters? Yes. Is it better for the game to be balanced? Yes. Is this how the developers believe balance can be achieved again? Yes. One cannot look at oneself and determine the balance of the whole game.

This was posted by Whispers Quietly over on Necrotalk

More HP translates to bringing old world mobs up to date: By that I mean, Luclin and beyond.

It boils down to; You can solo to 70? NERF that one. 70 Solo? Get on it right away, We need these fools to bring in there friends. Friends bring in more accounts.

What the hell are you thinking? Solo; Wheres the money in that? I told you guys accounts are down, What don't you understand? We're sinking the time on "progression servers". At this Moment we have over 500 Idiots doing the Tutorial; There not Leveling.. Thats what I want to see..
We're losing the race. 'shakes head" How does any of you expect to compete? Players that finish an Endless game quit paying folks, Yeah: quit Paying. Thats what we are about. And you allow this? I don't know how to say this any more clear; We need Accounts, We need them NOW!

Last time I checked, Theres just to much capital out there, How could any of you let that run amuck? Guilds that "help" each other? I logged on the other day and hit the Bazzaar. Radiant crystals and Ebon now are a Dime a dozen, Why should they buy our new expansions? For christ sake they can farm plats and buy the damn crystals. Who's Brilliant idea was this? I tell you team, WE have to improve.
A single player Without friends I might add, can theoretically buy his way to 70. Wheres the money there? We need to kill the Little bastard, Make him suffer, Like we are. No Friends, no money. And need I say no christmas bonus? Squash him, And Squash him now. .....

It does seem to capture the thought process of Sony...

Feniuer, I respect all the work you have done for this community, but I feel a little bit rediculed by you.

I did not rant, I did not throw accusations at Sony, I just stated a fact that was new to me:

A mob that previously hitted for 180 in Chardok hits for 330 now.

Ok, you may ask yourselve why I got aggravated by this? Well, I am a 70 druid, 400 AA now, raided up to Anguish and have selfbuffed 9 k HP and 9 k mana. So I am not a newbee.

What am I doing in Chardok? Well, I got a promotion at work, I have to work much harder then before and had to leave my raiding guild. Even when I was in this guild I was relaxing in Chardok after raids, being ally there made it my second home, and I know this zone inside out.

I made some extra pp there for my alts, but more important, for my friends, some of them new to the game.

I have been ally to chardok since Stromm openened and I leveled my druid in Nurga from 40 to 62 there.

Now I ask you, why do you have to beef up old world mobs, not even boss encounters, but simple named? Its just not necessary. If I decided to spend all my time in Chardok (which I dont do, I spend about 30 min there each week, 5 min each night to relax before bed time and look for named rares) I still pay my 13 $ each month to0 play the game I like to.

I even invested into some dmg shield augments abd a cleave 3 aug and I am up to 78 regular dmgshield. Well, thats not impressive? **** it, I like it that way, I like to tank, I like to play the game my way, I even got a second account and got my cleric to 66 so i could kill all the fablede mobs - I got up to duoing 1300 hitters, and it was fun. I have to admit, I like the term battledruid, I like to tank, hit mobs with debuffs, dots, and tank. So what? Thats my playstyle, and I invested a long time of my live into this.

I just dont understand why Sony has to reverse all the old world mobs. Dont tell me its about balance - there never is more then 1 person in Chardok, Nurgha, Droga, SG, VL or any other old world zone.

This is just a change to satisfy customers on the new servers, and nothing else. Its a "**** you" sign to the folks that enjoy the old content and love to play around in these zones. Dont tell me its about game balance - its about new servers and nothing else, and they are too lazy to distinguish between normal servers and the Combine/Sleeper servers.

whichever way i lean in this discussion, and whatever argument or anicdote i have to put my position on display is truly and 100% overshadowed by the fact that there is much in this thread that has made me....


.... CACKLE!

Cackledruid sighting!

These changes are cheap cheap cheap ...

if they want to keep this game alive and make again LOTS of money off it they really have to invest on it, and stop tinkering with game concepts which are OLD. When you go to old world or even RSS and see all that mobs just standing there do you get the feeling of a living place? i dont.
Old concepts, mobs in EQ are just targets...

In my opinion if SOE wants to save EQ (they dont imo .. they are just squezzing an old product as much as they can) they have to simulate a day schedule for each NPC, so that they do things, go home to sleep, cook, eat etc.). Npc fight each other, wolfes eat prays, some mob come single whatever. Devastation is a weak example of this concept.. which should be applied on a wide scale. Graphics isnt everything, gameplay is.

Every zone every race should have different lifestyles ... so that every spot of this virtual world should have its interest. Diversity is what makes a game worth exploring. When all zones work equal, make a group , go to camp , pull, kill .. this is killing this game. I am not saying SOE is not trying to overcome this, missions are great because they give a story to mindless grinding /clap SOE. Only one group mission feasable in 20 minutes (Seeker)? /grrr SOE. If putting all mobs on a template is a first step to give mobs a decent artificial intelligence, do it. Someone ever played Gothic? Single player .. world was lively there though. Its not rocketscience, just need to be programmed. I remember playing a FPS game were a single mob without cheating was giving a lot of trouble to 2 of us... moving jumping hiding and then popping up behind us. Now thats nice! want more of that!
I want some mobs intelligent and quick like that, some other totally dumb but strong .. every mob should have strong and weak points if u know them.. i want more tactics in the game .. not less. I know raids have lotsa of tactics .. i love missions because they have tactics too.

Diversity in the game means also that all classes MUST have zones/spots where each class is uber regardless of gear /aa's .. class "fun focus" spots. Like EK or DSP were in the old times for us druids ...

Fenier is saying that SOE does the good of the game. Wrong. SOE does the good of its pockets, not of the game. If the game is losing money they'll just shut it down from one day to the next. Not good for the game, good for SOE. Right? or Illogical? Should we always be happy with SOE decisions? even in that extreme case?

Dorda, it sounds like your posts more and more should be in the Unkempt section. If you want a MMO to simulate daily life, go try the Sims or something. The game dynamic has changed over the years and is not what it once was. If you want a game where you can level and get the top end gear with only putting in 20-60 minutes a day, try WoW or EQ2. No one is forcing you to stay in EQ and no one likes hearing rant after rant in this general EQ information forum. I do not understand why you want EQ to change to be like every other game out there that you like. If it did, then it wouldn't be unique to itself. Each person has to find the part of EQ that makes them enjoy it whether that be raiding, grouping, tradeskilling, sitting in the guild hall talking to other people, it doesn't matter but that is not up for the developers to change the entire concept of the game to fit your style.

The game hasn't changed enough to warrant this bit of brilliance. Exactly who does it cater to? Any real newbie is going to be playing a game of catch up just to get to the point they can play with everyone else. Every twink has already done this content. Slowing either's level progression is senseless from a enjoyment perspective. These changes don't affect farmers, they don't affect higher levels going back for kicks; it affect twinks and newbies and what exactly was the point except to screw them both?

In any case, it's hardly the dumbest thing they ever did.

From my understanding (which is limited) the change was primarily for the new progression servers. In the old days, there seemed to be a marginal advantage for casters (doing damage) compared to melee which has sense done a 180 where casters are unable to keep up with the melee. I am not saying SOE is right for making these changes, but I do think it is stupid to change things from so long ago when hardly anyone uses/goes to that content anymore. There are plenty of other things in more populated areas of the game that could have used the attention.

I find it amusing that this thread has evolved into a Fenier discussion and he hasn't even been posting on it for three days now.

Since when did anything stay on topic in these forums? =P

Well, back on topic Devs are looking into the problems with mobs getting huge dps increases and stuff. As I understand it, there are subtle changes to their abilities which explains some of it, but not all of it which I will detail some below. Things like dual wield for mobs were tweeked, double attacks raised, hit rates, things of this nature. However, I ran around Sebilis for allittle while on my ranger to see some of the increases, mostly the things out of whack are the level 48-55 mobs that got the huge increases. Anyways, Froglock Boks were hitting the 200 range, krups the low 300's, Illis in the low 400's, The Myconids got about a 125% increase with them hitting previously at 184 and easier than the frogs previously, now are hitting in the 464 range.

In Kael, Troopers in the arena were hitting the low 400's senior guards and the like were hitting the 300's, previously the troopers were lucky to break 200 if I remember right. And the Veteran's you might ask, the level 57 guys, hit in the 300's and seemed normal, with little changes, same 32k hit point mob.

Reports in places like Velks the spiders in the entry were hitting the 189 range which is a 100% increase. no clue on dogs. And lower than that, not sure as the mobs die way to fast for me to notice.

Well, back on topic Devs are looking into the problems with mobs getting huge dps increases and stuff. As I understand it, there are subtle changes to their abilities which explains some of it, but not all of it which I will detail some below.
Palamin,

Have you reported this to Sony? I find that the devs are pretty clueless at times.

I'm going to miss heading to OS and soloing the trash there, it was pretty nice to be a druid tank every so often. Plus I need the faction for the wood elf mask quest (being a hobbit, the extra height would be nice to avoid the "you can't see your target" messages at times).

Fanra, if Sebelis is no longer a viable option, then there is always lower Guk.

Yep, the devs know about it. Mistmoore had version 2.0 mobs up, made a fuss about it considering no 1.0 mobs in lfay(been soloing sev, gore, fay and talendor a bit to much), other posts on sony forums lately are what mobs seem out of whack, where, and stuff. Supposedly, Rashere is looking into it and parsing data and stuff.

Well thats interesting, I go away for nearly a week and I get all discussed about.

So going to reply in order:

I feel exactly the opposite. Making all mobs more closely fit a template for their level reduces the flavor of the game. I suppose the old world stuff could have used a little beefing up to stand up to modern players and equipment, but the old stuff was the way it was for a reason. Blue to 50 outdoor mobs like spectres and giants hit harder than indoor mobs like frogs in guk, and guk frogs had fewer HP also. HP varied by mob class, and there were lots of special mobs like frenzies that apparently got stamped with the cookie cutter mold now.

My understanding of it is differant. It makes logical sense for all members of a given race to have teh same racial set (just like PCs do). Rasherre said named (like Frienzed) are differant, and while they have basic template stats (adjusted by class) they are also looked on on a case by case basis.

I admit I have been away a few days, but the Vet forum said they did a rather large live update recently so we'll have to see how that goes.

i mean that grouping or soloing there is NO way you can have access to near-top level spells,gear and focuses,whatever the difficulty of the single-group content.

Hate to break this to you, Kunark, Velious, Luclin etc all had major issues with people getting the highest end spells during that era. Your complaint is not new, nor is it something which is new since Omens.

As for the rest of the post that quote came from:

This is a MMORPG - Multiplayer. Its designed to be played with others. Thus, it makes sense for them to encourage that and actually require groups for progression at differant points in the game.

In my opinion if SOE wants to save EQ (they dont imo .. they are just squezzing an old product as much as they can) they have to simulate a day schedule for each NPC, so that they do things, go home to sleep, cook, eat etc.). Npc fight each other, wolfes eat prays, some mob come single whatever. Devastation is a weak example of this concept.. which should be applied on a wide scale. Graphics isnt everything, gameplay is.

They are getting there, Freeport and Dev/Rage are good examples of that. It is *not* easy to do what your asking because your not considering the server load to run tha tmany scripts, nor how difficult it may be to code them into existing zone structure. You just want stuff and want it now - but it doesn't work that way.

Fenier is saying that SOE does the good of the game. Wrong. SOE does the good of its pockets, not of the game.

Here is something you seem to forget - Sony is a company which makes money. It is why they exist - to make profit. They do what they feel is best to keep the majority of the players happy, commonly, as this forum as shown - this does not often apply to you. Feel free to not pay Sony if you really hate them that much.

Like it or not it *is* their game. If they feel they are making the right choice, you can question it - you can even try to change it, but really its their choice and whatever the final decision is - is the one you will have to live with.

Fenier.. I feel a little bit rediculed by you.

I addressed you once, and one time only - with a single sentence. Your orginal post goes on and on about the new changes, and not understanding them to which I replied:

The spell revamp last year mostly increased spell power across the board. This change was ment to restore the balance between mob and player power in the lower game spectirum.

So please, explain to me how I targeted you out directly and rediculed you, since I am simply not seeing it. I didn't ask why you where in Chardok, I didn't say a single thing about the varience in max hit, nor do I really care what you do with your time. Your unhappy - fine, be unhappy. All *I* did was give the reason provided by sony for the change. If answering your confusion offends you, I am really not sure what to tell you.

-Fenier

1)This is a MMORPG - Multiplayer. Its designed to be played with others. Thus, it makes sense for them to encourage that and actually require groups for progression at differant points in the game.

2)They are getting there, Freeport and Dev/Rage are good examples of that. It is *not* easy to do what your asking because your not considering the server load to run tha tmany scripts, nor how difficult it may be to code them into existing zone structure. You just want stuff and want it now - but it doesn't work that way.

3)Here is something you seem to forget - Sony is a company which makes money. It is why they exist - to make profit. They do what they feel is best to keep the majority of the players happy, commonly, as this forum as shown - this does not often apply to you. Feel free to not pay Sony if you really hate them that much.

4)Like it or not it *is* their game. If they feel they are making the right choice, you can question it - you can even try to change it, but really its their choice and whatever the final decision is - is the one you will have to live with.


1) yes absolutely .. but that doesnt mean they have to kill soloing .. EQ should be appealing also to the ones that want short breaks off RL imo. Playing with others takes time, lotsa time... often 1 hour only to get a pickup group started. It is a LOT more entertaining, but sometimes its just not possible. If they kill entirely the motivation/usefulness/feasibility of soloing they discourage this kind of use of the game, and a plethora of time-limited customers.

2) no i never said i want it now. I am worried that if they dont do more stuff like that soon the game is going to die quickly. Although .. I helped a REAL NOOB today !! incredible, they still exist! He didnt even know about allakhazam =)

3) i didnt forget it, i remarked it in fact =) .. Well i think the majority of the people that used to play this game as i do already left it (see point 1). So probably yes, i am a minority now. Nevertheless, I hope i still am allowed to talk and discuss here from my point of view (i never said i was representing other's opinions, as Dayuna remarked).

This forum has shown that regularly on druids grove there are very vocal 2-3 posters that dont like dissenting opinions, thats it .. other than that has shown nothing. Its always the same ones. Actually it has shown that there are some supporting some of my ideas.

4) i know .. and probably is the same for most of us isnt it? Luckily there is this forum to FREELY discuss opinions, impressions and the general druid way of life. I really hope it wont change its name to "The Raiddruid grove"

4) i know .. and probably is the same for most of us isnt it? Luckily there is this forum to FREELY discuss opinions, impressions and the general druid way of life. I really hope it wont change its name to "The Raiddruid grove"

If you are ranting and raving about changes made by SoE. How they are ruining your style of playing and going on and on in an argument not about the game but about personal conflicts among posters then this IS the wrong place. The right place is the Unkempt section. This is for general information about EQ and the general discussion of that information, not the rant section. Freely discuss EQ all you want, but when your opinions become rant after repeated rant, then it is not for this section.

Fenier, I believe Mascha's point is that in some of your other posts at times, (since it is impossible to hear your inflection) they can come across as slightly condescending.

It boils down to; You can solo to 70? NERF that one. 70 Solo? Get on it right away, We need these fools to bring in there friends. Friends bring in more accounts.

We will just find another way to solo to max level, just like we always have.

I am hearing reports that the changes have been reversed. Most of them where unintentional.