View Full Forums : Compilation of New/Improved AA Skills


Scirocco
06-26-2003, 08:24 AM
What follows is a list of suggestions that have recently surfaced in one or more threads. They aren't limited to changes in the LDN expansion, although many would be suitable for that. Nor are they necessarily limited to the druid class.

Post any new additions below. I'll incorporate them in the following list from time to time.


<strong>1. EXISTING AA SKILLS OTHER CLASSES ALREADY HAVE THAT WOULD BE SUITABLE FOR DRUIDS.</strong>

a. <strong>Spell Casting Fury Mastery</strong> - gives a small increase to the % chance to crit with a nuke.

b. <strong>Spell Casting Subtlety</strong> - lowers aggro.


<strong>2. ENCHANCED VERSIONS OF EXISTING DRUID AAs</strong>

a. <strong>Hastened MGB</strong> - like improved exodus, it reduces the reuse time.

b. <strong>Hastened SotW</strong> - like improved exodus, it reduces the reuse time.

c. <strong>Hastened Radiant Cure</strong> - like hastened exodus, it reduces the reuse time.

d. <strong>Improved Dire Charm</strong> - allows the caster to Dire Charm up to a level 51 npc, or higher with additional AA levels.

e. <strong>Improved Exodus/Succor</strong> - increases area of effect for exodus, succor and similar spells.


<strong>3. NEW SKILLS</strong>

a. <strong>Innate SoW/SoE</strong> - like innate camo, but gives you SoW or SoE (my vote is for SoE). Usable indoors.

b. <strong>Indoor Affinity</strong> - removes the outdoor-only restriction for druid spell, with each level of skill raising the max. spell level affected, so that at level 3 all spells are affected.

c. <strong>Upgraded Track</strong> (class AA, 3 levels, 3/6/9)
-level 1: 15 increase to track, ability to sort by name
-level 2: 15 increase to track, ability to sort by distance
-level 3: 25 increase to track, ability to sort by con (green/lt.blue/dk.blue...)
-18 aa points to get track up to: 180 with full sorting abilities

d. <strong>Innate Cheetah</strong> - self or group version of SOC that does not overwrite other runspeed buffs.

e. <strong>Affliction Adept</strong> - extend duration of DoTs by 10% per level of mastery, can train once per level beginning at 61st.

f. <strong>Affliction Mastery</strong> - decrease mana use for DoTs by 5, 10, 25%, can train at 61st, 63rd, 65th.

g. <strong>Affliction Strike</strong> - allows a chance of critical (double) damage during each round of a DoT's duration. Chance of critical is 5, 10, 15%.

h. <strong>Woodland Steed</strong> - summons a unicorn mount with 110% movement rate increase (same as paladin holy steed). Duration: until dismounted.

i. <strong>Animal Empathy</strong> - single target unresistable mesmerization of any mob flagged as animal. Duration 1 minute, Refresh 4 minutes.

j. <strong>Guardian of Tunare</strong> - summons a bear spirit which can be commanded to guard a single player; when that person is attacked, the spirit would impart a 500 point heal each tic for 3 tics, then the spirit disperses. Refresh time 15 minutes.

Madai
06-26-2003, 09:07 AM
to just jam up the list... :

first, theft from other classes:

bear pet swarm

turn summoned

pet discipline

quick buff

dire wolf(like shaman rabid bear, but less stats and more speed)

total dominion

next: new stuffs

storm eyes(allow full vision while raining)

metabolic mastery(no need to eat)

nature's storage(allow the druid to summon a no drop lore gem, at 2000 hp/2000 mana cost, which returns 1500 mana/1500 hp when clicked) (72 min reuse)

Improved mana preservation

Firestorm(a high damage fire rain spell)

E'ci's Whiteout(a high damage cold rain spell)

Shield of the Storm Walker(short duration immunity to fire/cold)

and so on...

TeriMoon
06-26-2003, 09:45 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>g. Affliction Strike - allows a chance of critical (double) damage during each round of a DoT's duration. Chance of critical is 5, 10, 15%.[/quote]

Each round!?

Yikes...wow! I wish...

Chroam
06-26-2003, 09:47 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>metabolic mastery(no need to eat)[/quote]

Call it "green skin" and you're off! No more need to eat...as long as you're outdoors?


later,
Chroam

TeriMoon
06-26-2003, 09:47 AM
Improved Healing Gift -- Works with Tunare's Renewal and Karana's Renewal

Panamah
06-26-2003, 10:21 AM
Don't ask for Turn Summoned. Turn undead is horrible and most clerics hate it and wish they hadn't wasted the AA points on it.

TeriMoon
06-26-2003, 10:53 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Turn Summoned[/quote]

ROFL, yeah, I sure want more of this line spells. Can't get enough vs. summoned stuff. The darn things are everywhere.

Seriena
06-26-2003, 11:03 AM
I hate to ask for things we should already have, like a healing gift aa to work on our % heals, or an aa to hasten sotw. Please don't give them any ideas other than fixing those aa's to what they should be already - healing gift <strong>should</strong> work on our % heals and sotw <strong>should</strong> be <em>atleast</em> the refresh time of Paragon of Spirit.

Madai
06-26-2003, 11:33 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>EXISTING AA SKILLS OTHER CLASSES ALREADY HAVE THAT WOULD BE SUITABLE FOR DRUIDS[/quote]

it asked if it was suitable, not if it would actually be useful. Druids? useful? yeah right!

But on the flip side, there's lotsa elementals in PoFire :P

Autumn10
06-26-2003, 06:06 PM
Wow, there's a lot of good suggestions there. I like the great majority of ones listed. The only change I would make would be a minor aesthetic one. I would suggest another kind of mount for the woodland steed. Unicorns are somewhat appropriate but I can't see a unicorn allowing one of us halflings to ride it. :p How about the good old dependable bear model? Or maybe a worg-sized wolf? Some sort of stag? Maybe an elk, mountain sheep/goat, deer? *shrug*

L1ndara
06-26-2003, 09:38 PM
Holy moley, what is this?

<strong>a. Spell Casting Fury Mastery - gives a small increase to the % chance to crit with a nuke.</strong>

Somewhat useful. I applaud how much it will piss off wizards too.

<strong>b. Spell Casting Subtlety - lowers aggro.</strong>

Needed in some form.

<strong>a. Hastened MGB - like improved exodus, it reduces the reuse time.</strong>

Not a big gain for druids, it would also be hideously expensive. Why? Because SOE cares.

<strong>b. Hastened SotW - like improved exodus, it reduces the reuse time.</strong>

Yes.

<strong>c. Hastened Radiant Cure - like hastened exodus, it reduces the reuse time.</strong>

Not a commonly used ability, and I'd rather it reliably got rid of bad effects than it could be used faster.

<strong>d. Improved Dire Charm - allows the caster to Dire Charm up to a level 51 npc, or higher with additional AA levels.</strong>

Pretty much pointless. If the DC bait in a zone needs to be more vicious, they'll make it more vicous. This is just asking to needlessly spend AA points. Better to be able to SUMMON a dire-charm class pet, which is how SOE should have done it in the first place if they had any forsight so they didn't have to add dire charm bait to all the zones.

<strong>e. Improved Exodus/Succor - increases area of effect for exodus, succor and similar spells.</strong>

Useless. Get rid of the randomness of being left behind and it may be worth an AA or two.

<strong>a. Innate SoW/SoE - like innate camo, but gives you SoW or SoE (my vote is for SoE). Usable indoors.</strong>

Useless other than the indoor part which pullers would love. If innate = self-only, then it's utterly and completely useless.

<strong>b. Indoor Affinity - removes the outdoor-only restriction for druid spell, with each level of skill raising the max. spell level affected, so that at level 3 all spells are affected.</strong>

How about 1 level worth 1 AA point that gets rid of the retarded outdoor only restriction on all druid spells? Timmy wants to quad kite Fungus Grove like a wizard. OH YEAH!

<strong>c. Upgraded Track (class AA, 3 levels, 3/6/9)
-level 1: 15 increase to track, ability to sort by name
-level 2: 15 increase to track, ability to sort by distance
-level 3: 25 increase to track, ability to sort by con (green/lt.blue/dk.blue...)
-18 aa points to get track up to: 180 with full sorting abilities</strong>

/tell ranger_01 See "blah" on track?

<strong>d. Innate Cheetah - self or group version of SOC that does not overwrite other runspeed buffs.</strong>

Wow, I thought 1 SoC was more than enough to train with, but give the entire group SoC and you can REALLY hammer that zoneline. How about just learning Exodus?

<strong>e. Affliction Adept - extend duration of DoTs by 10% per level of mastery, can train once per level beginning at 61st.</strong>

Useless.

<strong>f. Affliction Mastery - decrease mana use for DoTs by 5, 10, 25%, can train at 61st, 63rd, 65th.</strong>

You've GOT to be kidding, right? I could keep a full stack of DOTs on a mob and be GAINING mana. Get an Affliction Efficiency 4 item and SCM3 already.

<strong>g. Affliction Strike - allows a chance of critical (double) damage during each round of a DoT's duration. Chance of critical is 5, 10, 15%.</strong>

Learn how to play your class and give up on this DOT crap. Whats next, wizards asking for more Al'Kabor spells?

<strong>h. Woodland Steed - summons a unicorn mount with 110% movement rate increase (same as paladin holy steed). Duration: until dismounted.</strong>

This is fun/nice at least, but you know it'll never happen.

Dev A: "Do we want to really piss off Paladins and SKs?"
Dev B: "You mean more?"
Dev A: "Yeah."
Dev B: "Let me check... mmm, their disatisfaction rating is on target."
Dev A: "It'll mean they hate druids more though."
Dev B: "Oh, well thats always a plus. Do druids get something useful out of it though? You know thats against the rules."
Dev A: "Not really."
Dev B: "Oh?! Does it mean more work though?"
Dev A: "Yeah gotta add a horn to all the horse models."
Dev B: "Horn?!?! Mmm, Unicorns? LOL! The virgin aspect would really crank up the must-cyber-the-elf-chick desire, but, uh, no, too much work."
Dev A: "Ahhhh, but the amount of cybering is down across the board, it's hard to find a good one to eavesdrop on anymore!"
Dev B: "Get the spice channel, sheesh."

<strong>i. Animal Empathy - single target unresistable mesmerization of any mob flagged as animal. Duration 1 minute, Refresh 4 minutes.</strong>

Sooooo useless. Lets ask for animal slow while we're at it. And animal only heals! OHHHH, animal only nukes, and DOTS too!

<strong>j. Guardian of Tunare - summons a bear spirit which can be commanded to guard a single player; when that person is attacked, the spirit would impart a 500 point heal each tic for 3 tics, then the spirit disperses. Refresh time 15 minutes.</strong>

Sufficiently weird as to recieve a WTF? At least it's some healing.

For raids druids need: Lower agro, faster healing, more healing, but most importantly something more fun than gems.
For groups druids need: Lower agro, something to make them more desireable, dunno something else like a pet or better healing.
For soloing druids need: Already decent and not a priority.

Rolaque
06-27-2003, 04:00 AM
<strong>Sub Specialization</strong>
ability to gain casting specialization in a second discipline, this would be at a lower level (125 or 150) than your primary specialization. For example, a druid could have specialization of 200 for evocation, and 125 for alteratioin, with the remaining at their present value of 50.

Rolaque
Saryrn

Bindy
06-27-2003, 03:55 PM
Good lord L1ndara, your really taking this 'grumpy druid' thing a bit too seriously!

Persoanlly, I thought they were some pretty good ideas :)

Synapticus Asterius
06-27-2003, 09:00 PM
I think the Ideas on AA's that affect the power of DOT's is very very good. Spell casting fury exists, but there is no AA that directly improves the DPS or efficiency of DOT's (well, except for SCM, but indirectly) We are limited to focus effects, and lets admit they aren't all that.

Tils
06-28-2003, 01:21 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Good lord L1ndara, your really taking this 'grumpy druid' thing a bit too seriously![/quote]

hahahaha

Tils

Gwynet Woodsister
06-28-2003, 04:59 AM
I don't think that we should really worry about what in that list would be unbalancing for other classes. Obviously, if they give them to druids they would give them to other classes too (nukes, DoTs AAs etc).

Good list anyway, there are interesting things.

*edit - sig nerfed. Please see board rules about sig sizes.

Firemynd
06-28-2003, 01:33 PM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>You've GOT to be kidding, right? I could keep a full stack of DOTs on a mob and be GAINING mana. Get an Affliction Efficiency 4 item and SCM3 already.[/quote]

Lots of us can keep a full stack of DOTs on a mob without losing mana. However, some druids like to use their mana on more than one thing at a time ... you know, like heal and nuke and debuff? Get your head out of the sand Lindara, really.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Learn how to play your class and give up on this DOT crap. [/quote]

Learn how to think about the applications of an idea for more than 1 second before bashing it and give up on this grumpy druid crap ... it's limiting your ability to use reason.

~Firemynd

TeriMoon
06-28-2003, 02:23 PM
Swarming Death is a nice spell. Don't sell it short.

L1ndara
06-28-2003, 04:04 PM
<strong>Lots of us can keep a full stack of DOTs on a mob without losing mana. However, some druids like to use their mana on more than one thing at a time ... you know, like heal and nuke and debuff? Get your head out of the sand Lindara, really.</strong>

So... maybe ask for a mana reduction on healing, nuking, debuffing, or even just more mana regen instead of DOTs. Sheesh. Aside from the debuff component, DOTs are @#%$, but even regardless, SOE isn't going to make this ability at this time since it could cut the manacost of a DOT down under 30% (and you can still be better off using a quad nuke!)

Pull your head out of the sand and realize that even if druids become god emperor of DOTing and make necros cry it's NOT going to help druids in any way except for soloing.

Xytrani
06-28-2003, 05:04 PM
This is an excellent list with some very creative ideas. I do have to say the grumpy druid thing is going a bit far though. It takes a pair of big ones to tell Scirocco to learn how to play his class.

One thing that I would like to see added (being an alteration druid) is a Healing Gift Mastery AA across the boards for priest classes. I don't think it would be too detrimental to game balance.

edit* spelling

Xytrani
06-28-2003, 05:17 PM
Sorry, Devil's Advocate here.

A mana reduction on dots could very well help druids grouping. If you're in a typical group and you got no cleric or if you cleric is leaving and a druid is LFG and said druid is able to cast mana reduced dots to add to your DPS while not detracting heavily from his/her healing mana pool, it could be a good thing.

I know it's a strecth, but it's something that could be considered positive in the grouping light out of that AA.

VERY LOW SODIUM
06-29-2003, 12:55 AM
AA = Blessing of FyyrLuStorm
Duration: 16 of every 24 hours
Effect: +20 Dodge vs Trolls and Clerics
Cost: A liter of pop and a twinkie?

*wave*
:p

Sinann Lunasa
06-29-2003, 02:28 AM
*copies & pastes L1daras reply*

Starting with um "Holy Moly" , I think it was..

(Except I think <strong>j</strong> is also known as "paragon" ;) )

Scirocco
06-29-2003, 03:46 AM
In case anyone had any doubt, the DoT AAs would also be available to necros and shaman. The tracking AA would also be available to bards. And so on. Only a couple, like the healing bear, would be exclusive to druids.

Autumn10
06-29-2003, 06:00 AM
Well it looks like L1ndara shot down pretty much everything. Granted some of those aren't going to help the grouping aspect as much as others but there's still at least SOME good suggestions there. If you can do better then come up with your own L1ndara, or if there's nothing that can help the druid class then there's no hope and you shouldn't even care. You remind me a little of Goldilocks, but even she eventually found porridge and a bed that were just right. No such comfort for you!

Macnbaish
06-29-2003, 07:19 PM
How about an AA that would cut our dot DURATION in half while delivering the same damage... heck I would pay for that.

Cantatus
06-29-2003, 08:14 PM
Well, I'm not speaking as a Druid here, but I have a couple suggestions.

A lot of what I've read here is that Druids aren't generally accepted into groups because they a) don't heal well or b) don't do enough damage in groups.

So, how about something like this:

<strong>Blessing of Rejuvenation:</strong> - 3/6/9pts
Duration: 3mins | Reuse: 5mins
- When used, your healing spells become more potent, have a higher chance of critting, chance of a lower mana cost and increases the duration of regen and heal-over-time spells by by 4, 7 and 10%. However, nukes do 4, 7, 10% less damage, don't crit as often, and DoTs don't go their full duration.

<strong>Blessing of the Wildfire:</strong> - 3/6/9pts
Duration: 3mins | Reuse: 5mins
- When used, your nukes do up to 4, 7, 10% more damage and have a higher chance of critting, lower mana cost and DoTs increase in duration (and do more dmg if they get that working). However, heals do 4, 7, 10% less damage, don't crit as often, and regen/heal-over-time spells don't go their full duration.

It'd basically be a tradeoff. If you wanted, you could have more healing power, but less nuking power or just the opposite. It'd allow Druids to be more flexible in groups and take on rolls of classes that might be missing from the group (such as Cleric or Wizard) without directly stepping on their toes as they'd have to give something up to do so.

Autumn10
06-30-2003, 06:00 AM
I have one to just throw out, not sure if it's feasible or not. How about a nuke that heals a friendly target at the same time? I'm not sure how you would handle targeting though. Maybe they could code it so you could pre-target the MT(or whoever). :p

Firemynd
06-30-2003, 06:13 AM
Cantatus, increase those percentages a LOT and make duration equal to recast, or the Rejuvenation ability would be worthless at the first two ranks (12 points) and certainly not worth 18 points to attain the third rank. I'll explain why.

Take a look at the effect your proposed Rejuvenation ability would have on Nature's Infusion, for example. Assuming the person has spent the full <strong>18</strong> aa points in rejuvenation without having spent points in Healing Adept or Healing Gift:

Heal 1750 / 1925
Mana 500 / 450
Crit%* 0 / 10
(*only if Rejuv adds 10% to crit even without HG, otherwise it wouldn't crit at all)

Or, let's say the person has already spent 24 points on HA/AHA and 24 points on HG/AHG.

Heal 2082 / 2290
Mana 500 / 450
Crit% 10 / 20

Having already spent 48 aa points on HA/HG lines to heal more effectively, you'd have to be a pretty desperate druid to spend yet another 18 points for such a small relative bump in healing power.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>and increases the duration of regen and heal-over-time spells by by 4, 7 and 10%[/quote]

I know you don't play a druid, but I would like to point out that <strong>we don't have heal-over-time spells</strong>. Unless you count Spirit of the Wood AA, which lasts 30 seconds. Well, even with max rejuvenation (18 aa points), the extra 10% is equal to +3 seconds -- not a whole tic, therefore not enough to add another round of healing. So, rejuvenation wouldn't help us <em><strong>at all</strong></em> in the "heal-over-time" department.

And our regen spell .. Replenishment already lasts 20 minutes, or 30 with SCRM. Frankly I wouldn't notice an extra 2 or 3 minutes either way.

You might be on the right track, but without being more aware of druid spells/aa and numbers, your ideas would be better received if you left them in 'concept' form instead of trying to attach percentages and point costs.

The Blessing of Wildfire numbers actually come a bit closer to helping, but the percentages are still too low for the cost.

~Firemynd

The Truth
06-30-2003, 11:22 AM
EXISTING AA SKILLS OTHER CLASSES ALREADY HAVE THAT WOULD BE SUITABLE FOR DRUIDS.

a. Spell Casting Fury Mastery

I agree good for druids.
(Especially although many may not agree with me I see a druid as a cross between a cleric and a wizard.)

b. Spell Casting Subtlety, Hastened Radiant Cure, Innate SoW/SoE, Affliction Adept, Affliction Mastery, and Affliction Strike

I agree good for druids.


Up coming abilities I object to:

e. Improved Exodus/Succor

This can't be done. I am truely sorry but if this ability was created it could be used for grieving.
(maybe if it was flagged for those in raid only, otherwise this can't be implemented correctly.)

Improved Dire Charm

SoE recently dealt with Charm exp issues. SoE frowns on abilities that allows a class to solo better. If I was a Dev. I don't think this AA ability would be implemented for those reasons.

Indoor Affinity

This ability takes away the definition from a roleplay perspective what a druid powers stems from (and outdoor environment one with nature).

Upgraded Track

This takes away from rangers. I believe the answer to recieving a skill or spell from SoE is to make sure no other class objects to it. I believe any class would object to druids recieving an upgrade to any of their skills I.E. that steps on the toes of that existing class's defining skill. Such as rangers and tracking.

Innate Cheetah

I feel this skill is more in line for a Bard. Especially since bards already have group intensive songs that can change the run speed of the group in a whem. Thou, I also see bards arguing that they would not want this skill for their present group fast singing speed song is much better.

Woodland Steed

This is stepping on the SKs/Paladins long awaited AA ability that I believe fantasy wise defines them as a Knight class. Not to mention as stated the global files would have to be updated with the Unicorn model. And that file SoE is particular on sometimes Even going so far as to denying enchanters new forms due to the size of it being an issue to load everytime you zone.

Animal Empathy

Good idea but I think it would be a bit strong as unresistable.

Guardian of Tunare

Cute but maybe as a buff (that is a heal over time instead). Its makes it just more appealing and easier for the Devs. to program. Rather, than making a whole big bear spirit display. Heh. Beside who has ever heard of a bear "spirit" interested in healing... (unless it was a shaman ghost bear o_O Bwuhahah?)

None the less Guardian of Tunare is a good heal for druids.

The Truth

gamilenka
06-30-2003, 02:20 PM
--This ability takes away the definition from a roleplay perspective what a druid powers stems from (and outdoor environment one with nature).--

Who cares. Most people don't rp anyhow...and the ones that do it, over do it and make everyone sick. Besides...caves are part of nature, so why can't I cast SoW indoors? A lot of dungeons are caves, and I can't cast SoW.

--This takes away from rangers. I believe the answer to recieving a skill or spell from SoE is to make sure no other class objects to it. I believe any class would object to druids recieving an upgrade to any of their skills I.E. that steps on the toes of that existing class's defining skill. Such as rangers and tracking.--

Leave the current caps, and allow almost full sort. Less AA for it too.

--I feel this skill is more in line for a Bard. Especially since bards already have group intensive songs that can change the run speed of the group in a whem. Thou, I also see bards arguing that they would not want this skill for their present group fast singing speed song is much better.--

You said it, bards already have faster songs...and have for awhile. SoC is Spirit of Cheetah...not Song of XXX. Cheetah is only 45 seconds, and is a druid/shaman only spell. How would this be more in line for bards? Makes sense that druids and shaman would both get this.

--This is stepping on the SKs/Paladins long awaited AA ability that I believe fantasy wise defines them as a Knight class. Not to mention as stated the global files would have to be updated with the Unicorn model. And that file SoE is particular on sometimes Even going so far as to denying enchanters new forms due to the size of it being an issue to load everytime you zone.--

Screw them, they've both been way overpowered for a long time...especially paladins.

BTW, there are already unicorns in the game. Create a new bridle, give it a name, copy the model for the already existing icon to the link...unicorn mount.

The Truth
06-30-2003, 02:38 PM
Who cares. Most people don't rp anyhow...and the ones that do it, over do it and make everyone sick. Besides...caves are part of nature, so why can't I cast SoW indoors? A lot of dungeons are caves, and I can't cast SoW.

Whether druids should be able to use all their spells in a dungeon does not change the real reason to why SoW is not aloud in dungeons.

Leave the current caps, and allow almost full sort. Less AA for it too.

Now that is a good idea and a possible nice AA skill.

You said it, bards already have faster songs...and have for awhile. SoC is Spirit of Cheetah...not Song of XXX. Cheetah is only 45 seconds, and is a druid/shaman only spell. How would this be more in line for bards? Makes sense that druids and shaman would both get this.

Well if bards are the best and druids are second best at this possible ability. How does this solve the age old problem druids have had while getting groups? That there is always a class that can do a particular skill better than them.

Robbing other classes of even half their powers does not solve anything. New skills need to be forged to create need.

BTW, there are already unicorns in the game. Create a new bridle, give it a name, copy the model for the already existing icon to the link...unicorn mount.


Gamilenka

E'ci

Just because unicorns are in the game. Does not put unicorns automatically in the global file. There are restrictions in programming and its not as easy as just linking what you want.

The Truth

gamilenka
06-30-2003, 03:01 PM
It's not taking from anyone's abilities. Bards have a SONG...this would be an AA, and it would have a refresh time a lot longer than a bard song.

What do you think the real reason that SoW is not allowed in dungeons is? I think the real reason is that it is an outdoor only spell...just like most of the lightening spells. Is there a 'real' reason they are not allowed indoors too?

These are AA that people are thinking up...I guess I missed the part where they said they want these AA to help druids get groups.

Just because making a unicorn mount isn't as easy as linking a few files, doesn't mean it's all that hard, or anywhere near impossible. Personally I wouldn't want one. Most people say horse heads get in the way. With a unicorn you would have the head, and horn in the way.

Seppeku2
06-30-2003, 03:27 PM
<strong>Treant Form</strong>

Treeform as it is now as useless, let us walk around in it and let it stack with Pot9 and MotF.

<strong>Nature's Companion</strong>

Give us a familiar sort of like a wizard's that would have some of its benefits. Let it be a giant bat so we can still call them flappies. :D

Oldoaktree
06-30-2003, 04:32 PM
...it is kind of hard to think of new abilities.

I won't dwell on the ones that have been metioned that I like other than to mention that I particularly like the spell casting subtlety, nuke crit aa's, and dot oriented aa's in particular.

But...for some attempts at other ideas since I think we are unlikely to be given some of those things...(no i will not try to make up names)


* Mana preservation oriented ability specific to heals. Either progressive 1-3-5% savings, or a random percentage chance (2-5-10%) of casting a manaless heal (ie at level 3 roughly 10% of the time your TR or NI would be manaless).

* Mana preservation oriented ability specific to nukes. Either progressive 1-3-5% savings, or a random percentage chance (2-5-10%) of casting a manaless nuke.

* Self only mana capsule (ala mod rod). Summon or imbue that deposits progressive mana - say 500, 1000, 1500 - at a cost of your full mana bar. Lore, no rent, no drop item. Reuse timer very long (8h kind of thing). Might seem powerful but really would be a one shot way of getting max 1500 mana during a raid. Much less than that and I don't think it would be very useful (maybe 500-750-1000 would work). Probably something all pure casters (priest and int) should have. Won't replace mod rods...and adjunct to them.

* Self buff that does 40 to all resists (we can do this with our standard resist spells so not really anything new...just an all in one convenience). Would not stack with current buff lines, so you would actually be trading down most resists to use it. Just a convenience thing. Could also be a self only buff spell.

* Self buff that adds 200-300 stackable hp. 72min reset. Self only ability

Autumn10
07-01-2003, 06:33 AM
Oops! See below. :)

Autumn10
07-01-2003, 06:44 AM
Truth: How could you grieve with an improved exodus/succor? Since it's only going to teleport your party I don't see a problem there. I like this one a lot because it's not always easy to get everyone together when you're on a raid with a large crowd of people and there are no landmarks to tell people to meet at, or when there's a fast respawn(like Brynju's tower in BoT) and you have to get the flock out fast. :p

Indoor affinity - sometimes roleplaying has to go out the window to balance between what's playable and what's 'logical'. That's the sign of good game design, to get close to equality on both sides. In the case of druids not being able to cast indoors it's kind of stupid. I can understand where they are coming from and it makes sense but from a gameplay standpoint it just outright sucks. No class should be that limited in the way it can be played, especially in a game with a lot of indoor zones. At the very least a lot of the ones that are indeed marked 'indoor' probably shouldn't be.

I'm not clear on your mana capsule thingy Oldoaktree. If it costs a whole mana bar why would you use it to in effect 'lose' mana just to get 1500 back? I would rather keep my full mana bar thank you very much. :p

The HP thing would be good. Anything that helps a druid wearing his paper mache armor withstand a little more punishment will always be a good thing. I've always thought druids were way too close to INT casters in regards to their AC/HP anyway.

Oldoaktree
07-01-2003, 07:22 AM
...same principle as a mod rod. You can blow your mana to make one before a big raid, and use it later. You create the item, med up, engage, and if you get low use it.

Thinking on it more I don't think that they would go as high as 1500....but I could see 1000. You don't want it to be so low that it wouldn't even let you cast say KR. So - somewhere in the 600-1000 range for max value would work.

I was thinking about the enchanter ability that lets them fully replenish their mana bar, and wondering why that sort of abillity was limited to them. I could see it being too powerful to do a full replenish, but thought this concept might work.

Firemynd
07-01-2003, 07:55 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Just because making a unicorn mount isn't as easy as linking a few files, doesn't mean it's all that hard, or anywhere near impossible. Personally I wouldn't want one. Most people say horse heads get in the way. With a unicorn you would have the head, and horn in the way. [/quote]

That was my idea, and I meant for the unicorn mount to be primarily used for travel. If someone wanted to use a mount while hunting and grouping, they could either use their horse/drogmor, or tolerate the horn. ;)

But it doesn't really have to be a unicorn ... any mythical woodland horse-type could serve the purpose of reinforcing the druid's 'master of travel' role; pegasus comes to mind.

I'd even go for a shapeshift AA ability that allowed us to turn into a fast moving animal, where we'd have a runspeed benefit without the 'standing med' benefit.

In fact, shapeshifting would be a fantastic extension of the druid's high level AA abilities, perhaps for the next expansion. Each form could add its own benefits and last indefinitely until the character zoned or ported out.

<span style="text-decoration:underline">Shapeshift</span>
Cheetah: +110% movement
Tiger: sneak + 60% movement
Raven: levitation + 60% movement
Wolf: +50% track range, +60% movement

Wolf and tiger are already in the global file thanks to beastlord/shaman pets. There are also existing graphic models for cheetahs and ravens, and none of these would require new 'mounted-character' models.

~Firemynd

Mijrk
07-01-2003, 08:05 AM
There's a problem with the "full mana bar": If I would like to make some of those capsules (or just one) I could go to an Arena, cast the spell -> oom -> Let me kill (without Exp loss) -> FM again...
I don't think that this would be a good thing...

But the idea of a mana capsule sounds good to me :)

Firemynd
07-01-2003, 08:27 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>cast the spell -> oom -> Let me kill (without Exp loss) -> FM again...[/quote]

Not FM. Being killed starts you with base mana, naked. Go back to arena, loot corpse and put gear back on, then you're at 30-50% mana and have to med back up to the max allotted by your equipment. Of course you then have to rebuff and travel to the desired raid location which probably isn't near the arena...

I don't see a lot of potential for exploit. The more likely reason developers wouldn't give us a 'mana capsule' spell or ability is the same reason they nerfed mage rods in the first place -- they didn't want extra 'instant' mana so easily available to healing classes.

~Firemynd

Oldoaktree
07-01-2003, 08:33 AM
..if you can only make one capsule every 8 real time hours, the regen time is not going to be the issue.

It is simply like a big, once shot, self only mod rod. You can set it up before your raid...regen your mana (or do the duel thing) and be gtg.

I am getting at a lesser version of a full mana bar skill like the chanters have. I think this is workable but /shrug I doubt they would do it. But I would like it ; ).

gamilenka
07-01-2003, 12:00 PM
So basically an aa that makes wolf form give 50% increase in tracking?

A friend and I have said many times that a spell that should have been in the game all along is:

Spirit of Fish:

Ultra Vision
Enduring Breath
Increase swim speed 70%
Decrease stamina loss 25%*
Enables player to stay at a contant depth*

Also a group fish form that would change different races in to different things (halfling could be a perch, ogre would be marline or something like that)...which makes you pretty much screwed if you tried to go on land with it. Would only have certain places where it would be useful obviously.

Just seems like something that should have been there for a long time.

* indicates the edits

Oldoaktree
07-01-2003, 12:09 PM
Actually I vaguelly remember this being suggested before, but if you are going with the Spirit of Perch : ), it should also have some component that slows your sta loss from swimming.

It would be a TREMENDOUSLY desired spell if it had that piece.

gamilenka
07-01-2003, 12:21 PM
Good idea. I made two edits. One was what you said, the other was something I thought about...that is really annoying to me when in the water.

I think I would like it called fish better. There are a lot of types of wolves, bears, eagles and such; but, there is not tag on a specific type of those. Let's stick with fish.

While they're at it, have them make a flight spell. It would be just like levitate, only you actually control your elevation instead of skipping off of things to stay in the air. You should be able to control your ascent and descent (sp), it's magic after all!

Gimli fan
07-01-2003, 01:11 PM
trans, and group trans...should prob be a spell though.

The Truth
07-01-2003, 06:37 PM
Why is it that no one realizes the reasons why SoE will be hessitant to load more models in the global file.

Meaning the fish, the shapeshifting, and even the unicorn ideas are all nice and all but not practical from a devs. or programmers point of view. Making them buffs instead of a model is more up a programmers alley.

Maybe its the programmer in me but some of our computers load slow enough as it is even with some graphics turned off.

The Truth
(looking out for the little guy I guess)

L1ndara
07-01-2003, 07:44 PM
<strong>A mana reduction on dots could very well help druids grouping.</strong>

Swarming Death: 1440 for 350
Summer's Flame: 1400 for 355

Both have similar mana reduction and damage boosting foci, songs, AA etc. available to them, so efficiency wise you're not gaining much with DOTs if anything. About half the druids are specced in evocation for an additional 11% or so savings on mana for Summer's Flame almost no druids are specced in conjuration. Swarming Death is more agro and becomes very inneficient if it doesn't last it's entire duration. For an amusing example of DOTs www.hossguild.com/torrid/...e2603c.jpg (http://www.hossguild.com/torrid/screens/june2603c.jpg) from www.hossguild.com/ (http://www.hossguild.com/)

So sure, improved damage output could help druids seem valuable for groups, but DOTs are about as group-unfriendly as you can get. Something like Winter's Storm if it's landing well will easily outdamage Swarming Death and you get lots of nice visible crits. DOTs are not a visible form of damage like a pet, nuke crits or damage shields, and the fact that mobs die at inconvient times totally hoses the efficiency you're trying to gain. While I like the druid DOTs for soloing, they're crap for groups and raids because of agro and mobs dying fast.

<strong>If you can do better then come up with your own L1ndara, or if there's nothing that can help the druid class then there's no hope and you shouldn't even care.</strong>

Just read Cantatus' and they're interesting. Heres a couple AA's off the top of my head:

<strong>Intensify Swarm -</strong>
(yeah, the names of these suck) Magic-based DOTs cast by the druid do an addition 90-110% or whatever damage per tick, but only last half as long. (This is not an AA I'd even buy, DOTs would still suck but at least they'd be much more group friendly)

<strong>Nature's Temperance -</strong>
The druid is less likely to suffer from cold or fire based effects and recieves a second resistance check against them. (occasionally useful on raids)

<strong>Hastened/Improved Wrath of the Wild -</strong>
Reduces the reuse time of WotW by 75%, increases damage by 150 (1 minute reuse) (some additional damage that is lowish agro, manaless, unresistable and the MT at least can see, only 10dps though)

<strong>Protection of Earth -</strong>
The ground itself will rise up to protect the druid reducing damage by 66% for 12 seconds. 3 or whatever minute reuse, 3 second cast. (a stonestance/protective spirit with a cast time, a gimp divine aura)

edit - oh, how about... <strong>Fixed Innate Camo -</strong>
Makes Innate Camo works like it should in the first place and be uninterruptable or doesn't act differently than every other spell and ability in the game and get "used" when it gets interrupted..

L1ndara
07-01-2003, 07:58 PM
<strong> Why is it that no one realizes the reasons why SoE will be hessitant to load more models in the global file.

Meaning the fish, the shapeshifting, and even the unicorn ideas are all nice and all but not practical from a devs. or programmers point of view. Making them buffs instead of a model is more up a programmers alley.</strong>

Scaled wolf, wolf, bear and alligator are all in there because they're Beastlord pets and would make decent enough shapeshifts. Any zone where a fish model is appropriate SHOULD already have fish in the zone model set (like the tree model for treeform.)

If they're going to keep making dire charm bait mobs in all the zones for druids they could use the zone model set "default animal" for shapeshift. Being Mickey Mouse in CoD or a froggy in PoV might be amusing.

<strong>I have one to just throw out, not sure if it's feasible or not. How about a nuke that heals a friendly target at the same time? I'm not sure how you would handle targeting though. Maybe they could code it so you could pre-target the MT(or whoever).</strong>

Necromancers and Shadow Knights have spells like this. Damages mob, heals and gives mana to Necro/SK's group. Nice spells.

The Truth
07-02-2003, 03:13 AM
Scaled wolf, wolf, bear and alligator are all in there because they're Beastlord pets and would make decent enough shapeshifts.

Very true. Just no unicorns please.

Making you a fish and actually confining you to water is no fun for programmers... Many zones with water don't load the fish model. Such has Oasis, Ice Clad. Timm. Deep may have the shark models... and Ocean of tears has the shark model too but I don't believe they have the small fish model. Thou they could possible minipulate the shark model in those two zones to be smaller.

Oh I like the shapeshifting idea but enchanter would most likely get that ability before druids... But D&D rule set stated druids could shapeshift so maybe it could be both classes abilities.

Autumn10
07-02-2003, 05:54 AM
The ones you came up with seem either overpowered or not likely to improve the grouping problem L1ndara. The resist one wouldn't mean much unless it was a group buff. Being able to improve your own resists won't get you groups, and I thought that's what this thread was about. Same goes for the damage decreasing earth spell. If players were smart they might realize this could make the druid more viable in groups, especially for healing, because he/she could withstand a little punishment if he acquired aggro. Unfortunately, with the stigma placed on druids right now I doubt it would make a dent in most people's pre-conceived notions about the class as far as grouping.

I know there are spells currently in game that damage and heal at the same time, I just didn't know if it would be feasible to implement a pre-targeting method and/or whether it would be too powerful for druids to have.

One note about the whole shapeshift thing: it's a cool concept but a scaled wolf form? I don't look at the scaled wolf as being a 'natural' animal. Besides, you would have to include a normal wolf and one type of wolf would be enough.

Oldoaktree
07-02-2003, 07:42 AM
Most spirit of spells dont' shapeshift.

I think the all in one buff or ability that is related to being underwater is valuable.

I don't really care about looking like a fish.

Quigsby
07-04-2003, 05:46 AM
<blockquote style="padding-left:0.5em; margin-left:0; margin-right:0; margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0; border-left:solid 2">Spell Casting Subtlety - lowers aggro</blockquote>

... one I truely hope they implement. Too many times druids get stricken down because of aggro, rue the day that wizards got this and they just chain nuke ;)

Autumn10
07-04-2003, 06:02 AM
Don't be too bummed out that wizards get to chain nuke with subtlety because they don't get to do much else. :mad:

Natan Magus
07-04-2003, 08:44 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>... one I truely hope they implement. Too many times druids get stricken down because of aggro, rue the day that wizards got this and they just chain nuke ;) [/quote]
Absolutely not true. SCS does NOT alow us to chain nuke, opposite it is pretty much ineffective for SoS or AT.

If anything helps us lowering our aggro, then it are our ele leggings.

You would be disappointed.

Sage Natan Magus
65 Arcanist
MM
FR

Leaerun
07-08-2003, 08:13 AM
i have been thinking about this for a long time and it is really hard to come up with somthing that will help.


I think our problem is that we have nothing special to offer a group.

One thing i came up with, please let me know what you think.

How about if our DS worked somthing like this. It absorbs 50% of the damage and returns 10%. IE....mobs hits player for 250....50% abosorbed, so player takes 125, 10% returned mob takes 25. and make it stackable with mages DS.


Just an idea....still trying to come up with something better to make groups want us more.


Leaerun

OttoeMobeel
07-10-2003, 06:30 PM
on the topic of that proposed "nuke that heals a player also":

maybe they could somehow code it to nuke the target, and assist off of the target to heal, so whoever had agro(hopefully the MT) would get a heal..... it's basically like a lifetap where the healing portion goes to someone else.... would be a nice spell line, as long as it has about the same efficiency as necro lifetaps, so it's not too crazily overpowered.....

could especially be an awesome boon to raiding druids(if implemented right), i would assume, allow us to be patch healers for the MT while also nuking a bit, but it wouldn't do that much for a soloing druid, other than that it would allow us to get a small heal on ourselves if we got in trouble.....

maybe they should balance it with a somewhat long cast time, but only have as much agro as the nuke portion alone would give, so it wouldn't be hugely useful to up our DPS, but it would be a nice ability for us to use when we hit that agro cap that many druids have trouble with, and if you need you could even explain it in a "roleplaying" way without too much effort

hehe, i'm sure there are reasons why it wouldn't work that many people will be sure to point out, but at least it's a fun idea to play with(for me anyways, and obviously the first person that came up with it)

edit: also, tho, this whole idea doesn't really fit into a discussion about AA skills, cuz it would fit better as just a whole spell line to help flesh out druids with a new ability that could help our groupability without stepping on anyones toes(cept possibly necro's, but it would be of a different use than a vampiric style self heal)

Aderel01
07-14-2003, 04:43 AM
The majority of suggestions here are not going to help druids get groups or make them more useful on raids. Many skills are too solo oriented, like all the DoT crap, SoE/Cheetah, etc. I raid 90% of my EQ time and there's only 2 skills suggested that I would really want to spend AA points on, unless I'm at the point of choosing between a skill here and innate resists.


The skills I find appealing are:

- Hastened MGB: this would become a MUST GET skill for anyone raiding content that requires MGB heals. I'd like to see the refresh cut in half or so for 18AAs. (3/6/9, 10%,25%,50% save)

- Spell Casting Subtlety: although I would rather have this skill specialized for healing, perhaps with greater effect, instead of a general subtlety skill. It would make sense to give all priest classes "Healing Subtlety", or at least druids and shamans since they don't have DA.


Interesting skills:

- Indoor affinity, I'd get this for Harmony of Nature. I would probably mostly benefit from this while soloing (and to some extent grouping) though, so I'd ditch this skill in an instant for a more raid oriented skill.


Suggestion:

Make druid the best MGB healing class. Hopefully the clerics won't kick and scream and allow us to be best in one healing area, they are still superiour when it comes to fast heals, group healing and CHs. We would not trample on cleric territory, they would still be just as needed even if we got this.

- A skill that extend the AE range of SotW.
- A skill that extend the duration of SotW. (on top of SCR)
- A secondary MGB ability only usable with SotW to allow MGB SotW casting back to back. (i.e, So you could MGB it twice per encounter)
- A skill that further boosts the healing per tick of SotW so that it becomes noticably better than EE, now it is just almost as good as EE. (EE has higher heal/sec, 300 per tick vs 250 per tick for sotw3) Improved sotw1,2,3 should do something like 325,400,475 per tick.

Imagine someone saying "We can't do mob x because we don't have enough druids online.". It could really happen :)


Any additional skills usable on raids would be welcome, but unfortunately I don't have any ideas. The damage mitigation suggestions that some people have brought up are interesting, but any such ability that you cast on the tank and not the mob will cause severe balance issues. It would have to be something you cast on the mob so that mobs can tagged to be either immune or partially resist the effect. If it were something you cast on the MT before pull that would mitigate, say 20% damage, many many encounters would become way too easy. (essentially, a 9500 hp tank would be like a 11400 hp tank)

-Aderel

Dashiki Blackenbark
07-14-2003, 10:53 AM
Natureburn!

similar to Manaburn, summons a swarm of killer b's that do 1500 damage per tick for 5 ticks.

thnx

ClaeophaRah
07-14-2003, 11:28 AM
I'm just shocked that nobody has mentioned my favorite shapechange idea.

Already in the global file (BST pet) and easily the neatest one (to me).

<strong>Form of the Tiger.</strong> =)

--
Clae

Xytrani
07-17-2003, 06:56 PM
This one comes just because I was pissed at foraging for something for hours today.

A forage sort AA, i.e. You could choose whether you wanted to forage for food, drink, or inedible. Seriously right now the reset on forage is far too long to get 10 freaking pods of water in a row when all you need is one damn morning dew/oak bark/clockwork grease/dust bunny/nose phlegm.

In other corners - why all the anti-unicorn modelisms? Or have you never used a unicorn as a DC pet in WL? Unicorn models are in the game, pegasus models are in the game. Not like it would take a lot of work here.

Autumn10
07-18-2003, 08:26 AM
I just don't think a unicorn would be caught dead with a halfling on it's back, and I'm a halfling. :p

Saraden
07-18-2003, 08:43 AM
Also the ranger AA ability (64 PoP ability) Entrap needs to be made druid also. Its a button ensnare that refreshes every 5 seconds. Its insane that rangers get this and druids don't.

L1ndara
07-19-2003, 02:48 PM
<strong>Also the ranger AA ability (64 PoP ability) Entrap needs to be made druid also. Its a button ensnare that refreshes every 5 seconds. Its insane that rangers get this and druids don't.</strong>

Rangers also get tangling weeds and cinder jolt and... well simply, rangers get an insane amount of stuff they shouldn't.

nanyea starrym
07-20-2003, 09:25 AM
Alot of interesting stuff in here, few observations

As far as i know, <strong>none of the priest classes get subtlety</strong>, and being a chanter, its one of the first things that i bought AA wise. And its not incredibly useful. As far as chain nuking, that doesnt happen unless you are jolting, boggling, or concussioning. I do think it would be nice for priest classes to get this, if at a increased cost (3 6 9?) its currently (2 4 6)

A <strong>secondary specialization</strong> such as Alteration primary 220 then Invocation secondary at 150... would be very useful and worth AAs or a quest or whatever to get

Druids <strong>SERIOUSLY!</strong> need a group heal spell, casting natures infusion on 6 toons to top off a cleric who just balanced hps while still in CH chain is lame

AA snare? Ranjas got this and druids got improved root... improved root SHOULD NOT be overwritten and is very important for CC purposes in alot of pop encounters


Anyhow best of luck in gettin a few new cookies outta the Devs :)

ccLothar
07-24-2003, 08:14 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> Ranjas got this and druids got improved root... [/quote]

Druid AA for root allows it not to break when the Druid nukes the rooted mob.
The advancd AA allows it not to break when someone else nukes the rooted mob.

Awesome AA, eh?

If I'm nuking a rooted mob, it's to break the root!

Xytrani
07-24-2003, 10:42 PM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>If I'm nuking a rooted mob, it's to break the root![/quote]

Truer words....

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I just don't think a unicorn would be caught dead with a halfling on it's back, and I'm a halfling.[/quote]

Point conceded. They'd have to make something different for halflings, but seeing as how beastlord warder is sorted by race, I don't see how druid mount wouldn't be able to as well.

Korwynn Nitewing
07-27-2003, 06:17 AM
I would have to say that group heal is DEFINITELY my choice of the year for a new AA.

Firemynd
07-29-2003, 05:54 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>As far as i know, none of the priest classes get subtlety, and being a chanter, its one of the first things that i bought AA wise. And its not incredibly useful. [/quote]
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I do think it would be nice for priest classes to get this, if at a increased cost (3 6 9?) its currently (2 4 6)[/quote]

I don't get it. You relate from personal experience that SCS is <strong>not</strong> incredibly useful, but then you advocate priests being able to buy the AA at an <strong><em>increased cost</em></strong>? Something about that seems very wrong. :lol:

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>AA snare? Ranjas got this and druids got improved root... improved root SHOULD NOT be overwritten and is very important for CC purposes in alot of pop encounters[/quote]

Druids didn't get an improved root. We got two passive AAs: the first which makes our roots a bit less likely to break when we nuke the rooted mob, the second which makes our roots a bit less likely to break when others nuke the rooted mob. After hundreds of AA points, I still haven't bothered with those so-called enhanced roots .. and doubt I ever will, for the very reasons others mentioned above.

Now as for ranger AAs, I'm not one who would <em>ever</em> call for outright nerfs of another class. However, I'll admit I was disappointed that rangers were given Innate Camo, arguably among the top three druid AA abilities (some would say number one), considering that rangers hadn't been intended to gain a fixed-duration invisibility.

In addition to receiving one of the best AA abilities from their parent class, rangers have some fantastic AAs of their own, including a snare that many believe would have been more logical for druids, considering snare has been a basic attribute of the class since level one.

I wouldn't ask for the snare AA to be taken away from rangers, but strongly believe that it should be added for druids.

~Firemynd

Rheims
07-29-2003, 05:17 PM
The more I think about this issue of the future of AA skills, the more I would like it to result in more differentiation between players.

When AA's first came out they weren't as easy to get as they are now for most people, so some chose this, some chose that, there was variety in the air. But now with the easy of AA farming in PoP people don't really have to choose, they just get everything, or close to it.

What I'd like to see is some forced paths: for example have some AAs that benefit healing, and some AA skills that benefit DPS, but you can't choose both. Choosing one set or path precludes you from getting the others. This will be a return to the days when some druids were evoc spec, some alteration spec, before we all became so similar to each other.

Anyway that's my 2 cents. I'd like AAs to be used to make players personalize their character more and take different paths than each other rather than just a bunch of new skills that everyone will eventually get.

beathhail
08-09-2003, 10:34 AM
Feel free to shoot me down in flames :)

For a raid situation.

Druidic sacrifice-

option A

9-12 Point aa, eq day refresh.

Transfer 100 percent of your current mana to target at the cost of 75 pct of your current hits and 100 pct of your mana.

Or trainable 2-4-6 increasing the mana % loss in transfer/hp cost.

option B

9-12 point aa, eq day refresh.

3 min buff type spell- cast on another pc- when spell recipient drops below 3 pct hits the character is completely healed-at the same time the caster dies (0 xp loss)

Role Meggido
08-09-2003, 04:32 PM
yeah, I'll just say no to that. It isn't fun to let other people play the game.

AA's in general should be broken out more. This is specifically addressed to SoL era archtypes. Instead of 2/4/6 how about 6 levels of 2?

Ones I really like:
-Agro reduction

Recomendations I don't know if they're in here (some just crazy to be different, some also might make good spells):

-Natures balance - self or group (Your target is immune to the runspeed component of this effect) :) !!.

-Tar shield - Damage shield that accrues slow counters on the target. Caps like Enc spell. Different levels add 2,3, and 6 percent slow per hit. so target would need to take 38, 26, and 13 hits before it hit a shm and enc level of slow. Tweak the numbers of course but you get the idea.

-Astral Wolf - self only wolf form (huge transparent black wolf) that moves at excessive speed (say like selos) includes lev. Drops when hit (like scale of wolf). Idea is a traveling form that perhaps progresses into a self only replacement for SoE. Reuse (5, 2min, 3 seconds).

-Retribution of Karana - Alternate version of SotW that is a short duration improved attack buff. Ups party attack properties (spell damage, haste, attack). Stacks with SotW. Goes in short duration buff box.

-Arms of Tunare - Requires SotW 3. Improves only the healing properties of SoTW

-Summon pet. Summons charmed pets to you.

-Improved radiant cure 4 levels adding 7 counters per level, 23,30,37,44 counters, something like that.
-Divine aura

-Natural deception - Blends player in with the natural surrounding (think fd) but casts an unresistable root on the player lasting 3 min (made up duration). When root fades it auto casts a root that can be clicked off. Added levels improve either reuse or decrease unresistable root. Either that or allows ability to be used on party.

-Force of nature - self only improved melee attack. Just like the idea. Similar to shaman rabid bear. Apperance should be red wolf. Cast "You become a raging tempest" or something.

-Earth's Understanding - self only res for 33,66,99 exp per levels

-Thunderstorm - Tremendous AoE with increasing damage per level. Significantly long reuse timer. Cast "Your hair grays as your body arcs with the fury of a thunderhead".

-Flourishing Forest - Self / group buff that is a hp/mana convert dot. Dot is slow acting and overwrites any regen spell. Dot cannot be dispelled.


Things I've seen and disagree with:

-Paying for track. No. Pay for sort by distance, but anything else would be bs. We already get con and name but we have to scroll the list. I think AA's and the game should be about paying for new things. I think paying to end the pain in the ass of things you already have. Worst case sorting by color and and name shouldn't be any more than 2 aa each. 6 aa for all of it wouldn't be unreasonable, but distance should be the last in that case.
-Woodland steed. If anything I think druids and shamans should get horses cheaper. Long ago we used to have running fast as a nice part of our class. Now we don't have that. Don't sell us out again.

Meg26
08-10-2003, 04:59 PM
"Imagine someone saying "We can't do mob x because we don't have enough druids online.". It could really happen "

This happens in my guild from time to time, but moreso we just end up waiting for druids' mgb's to refresh.

The AA I would most like to see druids get would be a DA. Even if it had a significant refresh time like an hour or so, it would still be very nice to have. The way they made heal aggro in the planes, especially the elementals, we get aggro WAY too easily from casting nature's infusion. Having a DA would be very nice in these situations.

Or the Aggro reducer AA that people are talking about. Something needs to be done. It's pretty sad when there's a raid full of healers healing the MT and you throw in one small heal (even chloroblast) and get summoned and killed. In zones like plane of air I'm afraid to cast anything let alone a heal.

One of the more appealing AA abilities suggested for me personally is the tracking one. If not range, at least the sorting would be nice. Going through a track of 100 mobs looking for one mob can be a headache and it's easy to miss mobs at times. I would surely pay lots for this aa ability.

Hasten MGB and sotw would be very nice. I can't tell you how much waiting for MGB can hold up a raid. Hasten RC isn't as big of deal to me cus it already has a 3 min refresh time, although having it work more frequently would be nice.

Other things I think druids need whether it be an aa or a spell would be a group heal, not one that requires a refresh time. It's really annoying to have to be the only healer in a group on an aoe mob and have to single target heal everyone in the group each aoe round. You get behind on your heals easily and people can die. I still have no clue why paladins get a group heal where druids do not. Also a heal over time would be very nice other than sotw. Wasn't this supposed to be what nature's recovery was? I still haven't found a use for this spell and was a complete waste imo. The refresh time alone makes it utterly ridculous considering the spell only lasts 3 mins and really doesn't do anything. How about a real heal over time?

I think we should have gotten the snare AA that rangers got. This is ridiculous that we did not. A root one would be nice as well. Our current root AA's aren't very useful considering in planes of power, roots are often not broken cus of nuking, they break after like 1 sec for no reason. If you've ever tried to root/nuke in plane of fire you know what I'm talking about. IF you can even get the root to take hold, often takes like 10 tries, it pretty much breaks immediately without even giving you a chance to nuke the mob.

The innate SOE sounds good, but not a MUST imo. I would spend my aa points on it, but it's not something I'd get too excited for.

Other ideas that I think are neat but not so realistic that people mentioned were the shapeshifting AA, that sounds super cool. The unicorn would be neat but I highly doubt they'd give us that.

I think the extension of exodus range thing is pretty dumb and I see no point to it, but then again I rarely use this ability and usually only if I'm alone running through a zone and badass see invis mob sees me or I'm soloing and I lose control of the situation.

Emelia Sunheart
08-11-2003, 01:40 AM
I like the innate clickie-aa sow idea. I'd rather not have a levitate component to it, since some zones don't allow that.

I don't really see why a lot of people think we need new DoT-type spells. Most of the time it's a lot better to simply nuke, especially with all the foci, songs, and crit aa's available.

Here's my ideas:

- Give all priest classes Spell Casting Sublety.

- Give druids Jolt at level 39, and Cinder Jolt at level 49.

- Revamp Nature's Recovery to heal 115 hp per tick for one minute (1150 hp healed total); remove the 90-second recast time, or at least lessen it; adjust cast time to 2 seconds or so.

- Create a group version of the above spell at level 62.

- Although this is not so necessary, a change in the mana cost of Karana's Renewal from 600 mana, to 400-500 mana would be very appreciated.

- Also, I think a lower-level version of Tunare's Renewal at level 51-54 would be nice. Maybe copy and rename the shaman ch that heals 1950.

-

I'm not sure these changes would increase druid desirability in groups, though. It seems that most people are afraid to bring a druid as main/only healer in a group because of the chance of death. If you bring a group into someplace like Sol Ro Tower, or any other out-of-the-way dungeon, it's really, really a pain if someone dies - you pretty much have to evac, search for a cleric (or log one on), and start over. However, Resurrection spells are one of the only reasons to pick up a cleric instead of a druid, other than buffs, and it should stay that way. Rez is really not a druid ability, nor should it be, imo.

Another idea just popped up~!

Perhaps swap pot9 and symbol's hp values? So pot9 would give 900 or so hp, and symbol would give 600.

Anyway, just some ideas. I'm going to bed.

SilleyEskimo
08-11-2003, 03:47 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><[Admin]Cobby> *Sadista* EQ: <strong>Will there be more AAs introduced with LDoN?</strong>
<Ttaylor-SOE> Yay...my existence has been validated.
<Hartsman-SOE> <strong>Not this time around</strong> -- There will still be progression, but more in the sense of improvement via the brand new types of items and now item-Augmentations that can be found in the Lost Dungeons. :)
<SLord-SOE> Someone kick Ttaylor-SOE please. =)
<Hartsman-SOE> lol
<Hartsman-SOE> (done)
<Ttaylor-SOE> No abusing the Marketing guy. ;) [/quote]

<a href="http://eqlive.station.sony.com/news_section/newsview.jsp?story=57815" target="top">eqlive.station.sony.com/news_section/newsview.jsp?story=57815</a>

No new AAs with LDoN. Just thought I'd update.

Eyeds
08-16-2003, 01:00 AM
/rude

Speireag
08-16-2003, 05:53 AM
Oh wow... This list is so outrageously pathetic.. Words can't even describe the laughter that the other class boards are getting from you guys.

Hah.. A unicorn.. Why don't you prance around a bit for me.

<img src="http://www.teger.net/Kaworu.jpg"/>

Darklord Mellifleur
08-16-2003, 08:00 AM
this has to be some sort of sick joke.. Please...PLEASE tell me you all have been just out licking leaves and decided to try a few shrooms while you were at it...

Ok.. Where do I begin, too easy....

Unicorn ? you got be kidding me.. Unicorn... Pallys and Shadowknights get mounts because it plys into thier Lore and History, Paladins and Knights have always fought from horses in fantasy lore and When they don't they are usually leading a battilion into a surge..even then the highest ranking are horse mounted....Druids have been tree hoppers and masters of the woods... Not Lady Godiva's prancing through the glade but naked <em>( although I wouldnt mind seeing this implemented into the EQ Code ../purr )</em>

Crit DoT's us necros have been agreeing with you on.. so point taken... But Not Every Tick.... Your just whining now to be Over powered.... The Crit DoT should be on influx of damage of the DoT..cast the DoT.. if the Crit activates.... then The Damage is Appropriated over the duration.... Like ...A Dot that does 250/tick....if the crit percentile activated... it would be 400/tick... the percentile per tick is not only useless, but the spam would be too much for other players as well as Necs/Shm/Dru....
<span style="color:red;">Mellifleur's Poision seeps deeper into %t 's Veins! ( 700 )</span>
<span style="color:blue;">Your Blood of Thule has done xxx damage.
Your Blood of Thule has done xxx damage.
Your Blood of Thule has done xxx damage.
Your Blood of Thule has done xxx damage.</span>
<span style="color:red;">Mellifleur's Poision seeps deeper into %t 's Veins! ( 680 )</span>

can youi magine that for every damn DoT casted, and with Necros ( us ) being the master of the Stacking....The spam would be Outragous !

Crit Nukes for Druids ? Oh Hell No.... YOUR DRUIDS, NOT WIZARDS, STOP CRYING ABOUT WHAT OTHER PEOPLE GET AND TRY TO ESTABLISH YOUR OWN IDENTITY AS A CLASS.

Hastened MGB ? would never happen, so I'm not even going to berate you all for your pipe dreams...

Guardian of Tunare ? another joke, you all already got spoonfed with getting CH.. don't take your mouth off one nipple and cry for the other...


<hr /><hr />the rest of all your suggestions are not actually that bad.... But The Indoors thing is pushing it... Your Druids... You Have certian things that Make you Druids..and yet you want what other people got... quit the bitching and accept the identity of who you are... christ.

And you all wonder why Just about every other class hates you all.

For once one of Us Necros are going to try and talk some smarts.... either listen... or look for another nipple.. yer choice.... Dr00d

Alucard101
08-17-2003, 01:34 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>No new AAs with LDoN. Just thought I'd update. [/quote]

Never underestimate the collective whining power of druids.
It has proven that if you put enough whining idiots together, they can accomplish stupid deeds.

Although in the mean while, it's a very good laughing material.
Also taught me a new meaning of the whinny greedy bast'ds.

Then again, <strong>Scirocco</strong> is the author, his humorous greedy and whiny nature never stops to surprise me.
The unicorn part is easpecially funny.

UsulDaNeriak
08-18-2003, 03:18 PM
some greetings from the nec board)
if i see you druids asking for crit dots too, i see the sun arising at the horizon.

Qoute: from nec board
---------------------------------------------------
SCFM - no way in hell - this skill is class defining for wizards..
-----------------------------------------------------

/fully agree.

wizzards got more than just SCF3 and FOM3 for critting their nukes.
and they should stay as the best nukers with the best abilities to do so at all.

we necs just asked for DCF3 (dot casting fury) and FoD3 (fury of dot)
isnt that fair compared to nukers? i guess yes.
and we did request these AA not just for us, we requested it for ALL dot casters.

BUT, if druids really ask for 3 (in words THREE) AAs to higher their dot dps, i like to say that the only class which is comparable to wizzards in the dot arena are the necromancers.

so let us all get CRIT DOTS and we necs are not pissed off if we DONT get another AA like wizzies in the nuke area.

Usul, ArchLich

Oldoaktree
08-18-2003, 03:44 PM
Can't really see that as class defining.

What IS class defining for wizards is the huge nukes they get.

No matter how many ways you run the numbers, a 10% improvement on a 3k nuke is more important than a 10% improvement on a 1.5k nuke. (I used 10% for simple calcs not for real estimates). In this case, the same ability bumps up the wizard's dmg by 300 vs 150 for the druid. And that does not take into effect the faster casts on wizzie nukes, which also give them a great DPS advantage.

The ability is stronger if the nukes you have are stronger, so even at the same level of ability wizard crits will ALWAYS be more valuable than druid crits.

And wizards get a small degree of innate crit, which no one else does.

SOE tends to double-triple-quadruple dip on giving a class an advantage (slower spell AND higher mana cost AND focus restrictions AND limited access to modifying AA).

Chizzers
08-18-2003, 07:29 PM
Well, you can't be the best at everything, or even close in some things, now can you.

Seriously...enough is enough. Why don't you ask for a 93% rez, Slow, Mez, or FD while you are at it. I mean, you don't have those right....so you must be broken!

Give me a break.

Tiane
08-18-2003, 08:08 PM
You mean the 93% rez, slow, mez and FD that necros have? 8P

Shoo trolls, you arent adding anything to this thread thats of any value whatsoever.

Tia

Stewwy
08-19-2003, 06:37 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Well, you can't be the best at everything, or even close in some things, now can you.

Seriously...enough is enough. Why don't you ask for a 93% rez, Slow, Mez, or FD while you are at it. I mean, you don't have those right....so you must be broken!

Give me a break.[/quote]

Yes shoo Necro troll. We dont come to your boards to troll. These lists and compilations are thoughts and nothing more. At some point they will be filtered into what is best for the druid class. Every class has their wishlist and we are entitled to ours. Do other classes not have a wishlist? Enchanters put out an annual letter for goodness sakes.

<em>shoo troll don't bother me...</em>

Aabidano
08-19-2003, 09:41 AM
"I think our problem is that we have nothing special to offer a group."

Hit it right on the head there. As the "jack of all trades" class, what would be a class defining ability for a druid? It needs to be something that's not going to step on another classes toes as well. It's already an extremely powerful class, in most zones, that ability has to be paid for somewhere.

This isn't a flame at all, but one of the biggest issues IMO is that there are a LOT of druids.

Tatankawd
08-19-2003, 11:28 AM
"This isn't a flame at all, but one of the biggest issues IMO is that there are a LOT of druids"

Is this still true? I know it used to be, but I know lots of FORMER druids on my server, who now have melee mains, or a couple shaman/wizzies, too. I think the pre-semi-CH healing drought shook a LOT of people out of the class, and many never returned.

LOL, speaking of healing, I'm in PoN last night, and I see an /ooc "Group looking for healer type". So I do a /who on the person looking, and it's a 61 Druid =)

Gee, I coulda sworn I WAS a healer type ;P

Tat

Nimmamen
08-20-2003, 05:55 AM
You guys realize this thread is a multi-forum joke right?
...

Heh

UsulDaNeriak
08-20-2003, 01:28 PM
Quote:
----------------------
Yes shoo Necro troll. We dont come to your boards to troll.
-------------------------

1st of all, no nec did really troll the druid board. believe me, i know how it looks if we necs really troll a board). i am pretty sure you dont like to see such an invasion here.

2nd you are heavily invited to "troll" the nec board but 1st go to your druid trainer and get flame resist up to 250.

3rd calm down guys. regarding CRIT DOTS we are sitting in the same boat. nukers got SCF3 and FOM3, ok we can nuke abit as well, druids better than necs. but why the hell we dotters got not the same chance like nukers???
whats about DCF-dot casting fury and FoD- fury of dot?
is a dot a worse kind of damage than a nuke, SOE??????

NOOO, lets keep on complaining about that, druids as well as necs.

just my 2 coppers. now call me a troll.


and another quote:
-------------------------------
"I think our problem is that we have nothing special to offer a group."
--------------------------------------

shiiiiiit, are you blind? every good druid can replace a cler in a bot exp group and you are nuking better with all AAs than a bad mage. and you can add all the versatility nobody understands unfortunately, like nobody understands a necs versatility.

i feel like at home here at druid groves, same discussions like on nec board. ok, we would never ask for other classes abilities. just some idiots do that. and usually they get flamed to death immediately. we try to improve and find our own way of class.

did i say, we are sitting in the same f... boat?
even if we kill each other on sight sometimes, also on a blue server?

Usul, Moderator of the Nec Board

Dalren Fieryblade
08-21-2003, 12:11 AM
Pethetic. While your asking for all this overpowered junk, ill be duoing with my "underpowered" druid friend, owning mobs groups wipe to. Druids in no way need all this stuff, and it just steps on the toes of other classes.

Stormhaven
08-21-2003, 02:18 AM
My dog woke me up today at 5am by announcing that he has diarrhea in a very visual manner by demonstrating on the carpet, this after I had only gone to sleep around 2am because I had to deal with the freaking Sobig virus on our mail servers and desktops because the idiotic twerps that make up our end-user base decided they didn't feel like updating Windows or Norton AV.

In other words, I'm not in the most generous of moods right now.

<font color="red">Recognizing this, I've decided to be VERY lenient on the existing posts in this thread.

No post before mine will be force edited (unless I go back and find racial-type slurs) and will be left as is. However, all posts from this point on - if they are of a general useless "u dr00ds are all overpowered" or "my class should get that before you!" type with no solid argument behind it will be deleted.

Posts like those from Darklord Mellifleur, Aabidano, and UsulDaNeriak are fine.

Moronic posts like those from Chizzers, Alucard101, Speireag, and Dalren Fieryblade will be deleted from this point on.</font>

*edit - This originally being Scirocco's thread, if he feels like editing any of it, he's got full rights to do anything he wants regardless of what I posted above.

Stewwy
08-21-2003, 04:39 AM
Dear UsulDaNeriak,

Let's not make a mistake. We have many people of other classes engage with their point of views on debates. We welcome the varied perspectives from other classes. Your comments were constructive and welcome. That makes you very different from what the person that drew the "troll" comment.

Posting does not make one a troll. What one posts and how it is posted does.

Certainly all necro's aren't trolls. I hope you did not take it that way. Bashing druids, leaving unconstructive comments which are nothing more than flaming ramblings makes one a troll.

If you or any other necro or any person of any class wishes to participate constructively in our discussions they will be welcome because differing perspectives bring diversity and understanding.